I'm trying something new here. We need something refreshing that forces you to think instead of just reading passively all the time. So here goes.
Note: This is not intended as a thread were people are supposed to prove their opinions and shoot down on everyone that don't agree with them. The intention is to share different views on this. No flaming, no short statements, just thinking and responding. Also, you don't have to represent your own views on the matter at hand.
On to the subject: Is killing ever right?
I will start off. Most people will, I believe, generally agree that killing is wrong in most situations. When is it acceptable then? One example would perhaps be war. If you have to defend your country, then it's your people against the other nations, and either you die or they die. Not much of a choice.
Another situation would perhaps be in self-defense. If your life is threatened, then you would be entitled to defend yourself, right?
EDIT: I am referring to killing people
Respond however you want so long as it is thoughful!
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prehaps we should have a seperate forums for these such threads?
Most people will, I believe, generally agree that killing is wrong in most situations. When is it acceptable then? One example would perhaps be war. If you have to defend your country, then it's your people against the other nations, and either you die or they die. Not much of a choice.
Another situation would perhaps be in self-defense. If your life is threatened, then you would be entitled to defend yourself, right?
yes killing to survive, either in war or in self defence, i think these are acceptable reasons for doing so. in both instances it basically boils down to you or them. If presented with that choice, yes i think i could kill someone.
Enlisting is kinda optional now, so unless the bring back compulsory consriptions i dont think i will be in a war like situation, thus really only leaving self defense as a reason in which i might kill someone
on a side note PhrozenDragon have you seen the movie The Boondock Saints? these three Irish guys kill several itailian an russian mobsters ans low lifes, then right at the end a reporter asks the citizens of Boston how they feel about the so call Saints of Boston and what they do, several people say the are killing for good, while others comment on whether they are playing God. very good movie though only the last fe minutes have much do to with this thread.
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-Humankind cannot gain anything without first giving something in return. To obtain, something of equal value must be lost. That is alchemy's First Law of Equivalent Exchange. In those days, we really believed that to be the world's one, and only, truth.
now killing in general or specifically killing people?
as of animals even though i never killed a bigger animal than a bird i think its not too bad.
Now on killing people it gets more complicated to me. In general i accept killing in self-defense or in war if its about defending your own country (inside your country borders that is) but wrong in most other cases. Taking a life is more or less like playing god since its just him (if he exists that is) that decides who is to die and who not (if we accept God to be an entity that affects our lives in an active way, but most people agree to this).
I already mentioned in other topics that i disagree in death penalty as a punishment since its exactly like playing god and i dont think any man has the right to convince another to death. Killing that way (to me) is just as criminal as the crimes of the one they're trying to punish.
No, I have not seen that movie, but I am intrigued. I'll see if I can hire it somewhere.
So if you are in the military and out on the battlefield, are you not entitled to kill someone even though you enlisted rather than being drafted?
And would it be ok to kill to prevent dagner to your country? Let's say that you overhear a man planning to murder you. Will you be justified to kill him, even though your life isn't in imminent danger?
You meantion playing God, but what if God doesn't exist, would it still be immoral to kill someone then?
PlugY for Diablo II allows you to reset skills and stats, transfer items between characters in singleplayer, obtain all ladder runewords and do all Uberquests while offline. It is the only way to do all of the above. Please use it.
Supporting big shoulderpads and flashy armor since 2004.
In times of war killing is acceptable, also in self defence, with reasonable cause, if they have a knife or gun than thats acceptable.
I also belive in the death penalty for harsh crimes, murder, rape, and anything that deals with a child their should be no other punishment.
Something that i think was overlooked, abortion, i belive this is wrong. No matter how you say it its still murder. If that baby was born and killed thats all you hear about.
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If you ever meet a hafling and a hungry dragon you dont have to outrun the dragon, you only have to outrun the hafling.
Ah, but there is a difference. You see, it connects back to my earlier point if it is ever right to kill in advance of immediate threat.
When abortion is done, there is no life. There is only a fertilized egg which hasn't developed into anything. What you do however is you prevent that life from ever existing. SO in a sense it could be called murder, but since you aren't actually killing a human being in the present, is it really so awful?
PlugY for Diablo II allows you to reset skills and stats, transfer items between characters in singleplayer, obtain all ladder runewords and do all Uberquests while offline. It is the only way to do all of the above. Please use it.
Supporting big shoulderpads and flashy armor since 2004.
Let's say that you overhear a man planning to murder you. Will you be justified to kill him, even though your life isn't in imminent danger?
i dont think i would. I'd get prepared to defend myself, thats certain but i hear many times during the day people telling to others "i'll kill you!" but its nothing to worry about at all.
now on:
You meantion playing God, but what if God doesn't exist, would it still be immoral to kill someone then?
i think it would still be immoral. We can use "playing God" as a metaphor here. Since we're not better (entity-wise) than any other fellow man we dont have the right to act like we are. We are all made out of the same crap (forgive this expression i didnt find anything better fitting) and we dont have the right to choose when the life of a fellow man/woman should end. (Other than our own).
As of the army now, i dont think i would invade another country and kill their soldiers. I'd feel they have all rights in the world to kill me and ofc i wouldnt want that to happen, would i?
Well, by "planning" I mean something a little more organized than shouting a random thought.
Yes, we're all made out of the same crap, but if there is no god then what separates good from evil? Because if there is no all-fulfilling definition of those terms, we cannot speak of any morals, since they are dependent upon good and evil, and as such there is no such thing as immoral. Therefore killing someone could be both right and wrong in all situations.
PlugY for Diablo II allows you to reset skills and stats, transfer items between characters in singleplayer, obtain all ladder runewords and do all Uberquests while offline. It is the only way to do all of the above. Please use it.
Supporting big shoulderpads and flashy armor since 2004.
PlugY for Diablo II allows you to reset skills and stats, transfer items between characters in singleplayer, obtain all ladder runewords and do all Uberquests while offline. It is the only way to do all of the above. Please use it.
Supporting big shoulderpads and flashy armor since 2004.
PlugY for Diablo II allows you to reset skills and stats, transfer items between characters in singleplayer, obtain all ladder runewords and do all Uberquests while offline. It is the only way to do all of the above. Please use it.
Supporting big shoulderpads and flashy armor since 2004.
No, you cant blame the baby, but if you was raped by your uncle would you want to have that child?? Would you wanna have a living reminder of your rape? That is the only arguement i could see for abortion.
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If you ever meet a hafling and a hungry dragon you dont have to outrun the dragon, you only have to outrun the hafling.
PlugY for Diablo II allows you to reset skills and stats, transfer items between characters in singleplayer, obtain all ladder runewords and do all Uberquests while offline. It is the only way to do all of the above. Please use it.
Supporting big shoulderpads and flashy armor since 2004.
But then again how does that influence the mother? Becoming a parent is an important decision to consider, and being raped you have no say. You are thrown into something you do not want to. Your life can get ruined very fast because of that. You may not have time to take care of the child, and so it is mistreated. Or it may take so much of your time that you fail to work properly and so loose your career. You may also net be a suitable mother, and what wouldn't that cause the child to experience in it's early years?
PlugY for Diablo II allows you to reset skills and stats, transfer items between characters in singleplayer, obtain all ladder runewords and do all Uberquests while offline. It is the only way to do all of the above. Please use it.
Supporting big shoulderpads and flashy armor since 2004.
yes, its still killing, that baby is going to haunt you for the rest of your life and remind you of the horrible acts commited by your rapist, rape is a terrable thing, something no one wants to relive every day they see that child
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If you ever meet a hafling and a hungry dragon you dont have to outrun the dragon, you only have to outrun the hafling.
abortion, nice topic... i dont agree with it but i'm no woman and i dont know how it is to carry a child you're not ready to raise. I'm passing this to the women. For the case i'm involved in an "accidental" pregnancy i'll offer my support whatever my gf decides anyway.
Now as of the "if theres no God what can separate good from evil" thing...
I dont think its God that does that separation. Atm we have no God to tell us whats good and whats evil. In fact the most evil things have been done in the name of God, so i wouldnt accept your point as valid. At the moment all we got is people. Moral comes from Philosophy. Same as Ethics (some from religion too but they're not as widely acceptable as Philosophy can be).
Ah, but what I mean is what distinguishes good from evil if there is no higher power to dictate it?
If there was some guy up there in the clouds who created the earth, and he said that killing is bad, then as the creator what he says is undoubtedly true. he can even enforce it however he wishes.
If there is no one up in the clouds though, then I can say it is good to kill, while you can say that it is bad, and there is no answer.
Evil things have been done in the name of the church and any religion, but then again we come in on what evil is. Which we do not have an answer to.
I will take a quote from Socrates that visualises this:
"All men do what they believe to be best"
Meaning that no one is evil. A murderer doesn't murder because he thinks he is evil, he does it becuase he believes it to be good, just, fair or necessary.
And I wouldn't say morals come from philosophy. I would say though that morals are analyzed and defined by philosophers.
PlugY for Diablo II allows you to reset skills and stats, transfer items between characters in singleplayer, obtain all ladder runewords and do all Uberquests while offline. It is the only way to do all of the above. Please use it.
Supporting big shoulderpads and flashy armor since 2004.
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Note: This is not intended as a thread were people are supposed to prove their opinions and shoot down on everyone that don't agree with them. The intention is to share different views on this. No flaming, no short statements, just thinking and responding. Also, you don't have to represent your own views on the matter at hand.
On to the subject: Is killing ever right?
I will start off. Most people will, I believe, generally agree that killing is wrong in most situations. When is it acceptable then? One example would perhaps be war. If you have to defend your country, then it's your people against the other nations, and either you die or they die. Not much of a choice.
Another situation would perhaps be in self-defense. If your life is threatened, then you would be entitled to defend yourself, right?
EDIT: I am referring to killing people
Respond however you want so long as it is thoughful!
yes killing to survive, either in war or in self defence, i think these are acceptable reasons for doing so. in both instances it basically boils down to you or them. If presented with that choice, yes i think i could kill someone.
Enlisting is kinda optional now, so unless the bring back compulsory consriptions i dont think i will be in a war like situation, thus really only leaving self defense as a reason in which i might kill someone
on a side note PhrozenDragon have you seen the movie The Boondock Saints? these three Irish guys kill several itailian an russian mobsters ans low lifes, then right at the end a reporter asks the citizens of Boston how they feel about the so call Saints of Boston and what they do, several people say the are killing for good, while others comment on whether they are playing God. very good movie though only the last fe minutes have much do to with this thread.
as of animals even though i never killed a bigger animal than a bird i think its not too bad.
Now on killing people it gets more complicated to me. In general i accept killing in self-defense or in war if its about defending your own country (inside your country borders that is) but wrong in most other cases. Taking a life is more or less like playing god since its just him (if he exists that is) that decides who is to die and who not (if we accept God to be an entity that affects our lives in an active way, but most people agree to this).
I already mentioned in other topics that i disagree in death penalty as a punishment since its exactly like playing god and i dont think any man has the right to convince another to death. Killing that way (to me) is just as criminal as the crimes of the one they're trying to punish.
So if you are in the military and out on the battlefield, are you not entitled to kill someone even though you enlisted rather than being drafted?
And would it be ok to kill to prevent dagner to your country? Let's say that you overhear a man planning to murder you. Will you be justified to kill him, even though your life isn't in imminent danger?
You meantion playing God, but what if God doesn't exist, would it still be immoral to kill someone then?
I also belive in the death penalty for harsh crimes, murder, rape, and anything that deals with a child their should be no other punishment.
Something that i think was overlooked, abortion, i belive this is wrong. No matter how you say it its still murder. If that baby was born and killed thats all you hear about.
When abortion is done, there is no life. There is only a fertilized egg which hasn't developed into anything. What you do however is you prevent that life from ever existing. SO in a sense it could be called murder, but since you aren't actually killing a human being in the present, is it really so awful?
i dont think i would. I'd get prepared to defend myself, thats certain but i hear many times during the day people telling to others "i'll kill you!" but its nothing to worry about at all.
now on:
i think it would still be immoral. We can use "playing God" as a metaphor here. Since we're not better (entity-wise) than any other fellow man we dont have the right to act like we are. We are all made out of the same crap (forgive this expression i didnt find anything better fitting) and we dont have the right to choose when the life of a fellow man/woman should end. (Other than our own).
As of the army now, i dont think i would invade another country and kill their soldiers. I'd feel they have all rights in the world to kill me and ofc i wouldnt want that to happen, would i?
Yes, we're all made out of the same crap, but if there is no god then what separates good from evil? Because if there is no all-fulfilling definition of those terms, we cannot speak of any morals, since they are dependent upon good and evil, and as such there is no such thing as immoral. Therefore killing someone could be both right and wrong in all situations.
in the 2nd and 3rd trimesters the baby is developed, hell even in the first you can recognize its hands and even fingers
so yes, id say thats a murder
yes, its still killing, that baby is going to haunt you for the rest of your life and remind you of the horrible acts commited by your rapist, rape is a terrable thing, something no one wants to relive every day they see that child
Now as of the "if theres no God what can separate good from evil" thing...
I dont think its God that does that separation. Atm we have no God to tell us whats good and whats evil. In fact the most evil things have been done in the name of God, so i wouldnt accept your point as valid. At the moment all we got is people. Moral comes from Philosophy. Same as Ethics (some from religion too but they're not as widely acceptable as Philosophy can be).
If there was some guy up there in the clouds who created the earth, and he said that killing is bad, then as the creator what he says is undoubtedly true. he can even enforce it however he wishes.
If there is no one up in the clouds though, then I can say it is good to kill, while you can say that it is bad, and there is no answer.
Evil things have been done in the name of the church and any religion, but then again we come in on what evil is. Which we do not have an answer to.
I will take a quote from Socrates that visualises this:
"All men do what they believe to be best"
Meaning that no one is evil. A murderer doesn't murder because he thinks he is evil, he does it becuase he believes it to be good, just, fair or necessary.
And I wouldn't say morals come from philosophy. I would say though that morals are analyzed and defined by philosophers.