This is from my own observation with 200+ hrs of farming in Inferno act 2 and data read from this forum.
It seems that of all the rare drops we get for iLvl61 to iLvl63, only a small number of the items are usable in inferno. I don't exactly have a count but it seems less than 5% of the items are usable. This bring me to conclude that the RNG in D3 is a rigged system where Blizzard only allowed a small number of usable items for the end game. If it were true RNG then the ratio for "usable vs trash" would be close to even.

Note: Usable is an item that someone would use in any of the Act in inferno. Trash is an item someone would just vendor or salvage.

Is this old info? If not, can someone help me backup this claim? Is this how the drop system works?

I'm at a point where I'm frustrated with this game. Hours of doing the same thing over and over again in hopes of finding an upgrade is boring me to death.

Lottery is no RNG either, because last time I checked, I lost on the first try and did NOT win on the second try, although winning vs. losing should be close to even. Thats Madness!

Switched to hc recently with a 52wiz and im loving it. Farming act3 inf on my barb is just plain boring. I mean what's the point in farming? So that my farming is even more efficient?

This is from my own observation with 200+ hrs of farming in Inferno act 2 and data read from this forum.
It seems that of all the rare drops we get for iLvl61 to iLvl63, only a small number of the items are usable in inferno. I don't exactly have a count but it seems less than 5% of the items are usable. This bring me to conclude that the RNG in D3 is a rigged system where Blizzard only allowed a small number of usable items for the end game. If it were true RNG then the ratio for "usable vs trash" would be close to even.

Note: Usable is an item that someone would use in any of the Act in inferno. Trash is an item someone would just vendor or salvage.

Is this old info? If not, can someone help me backup this claim? Is this how the drop system works?

I'm at a point where I'm frustrated with this game. Hours of doing the same thing over and over again in hopes of finding an upgrade is boring me to death.

Oh yeah?, tell me more about this, its a quite interesting fact.

No computer algorithm (pretty sure I spelled that wrong) will ever produce truly random datasets (where datasets in this case is stats).

Furthermore, weights can be added to stats to make them appear less (which is also why legendaries are so much rarer than rares) on average. This does mean that a streak of good luck can mean that every item you'll ever see is a legendary. It can also mean that you'll never see a legendary.

Also, for the statistics to even start approaching a normal distribution, you need thousand upon thousands of samples (the more the better obviously). I'm not a statistician, but have friends who are, and they tend to scoff at sample pools of less than 100k (of course, depending on the repeatability of the experiment producing the samples). Your 200+ hours of playing will quite likely not have producded a statistically significant number of rares.

If you want to get technical....Even throwing real dice isn't actually random. ^^

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"I want to say something but I'll keep it to myself I guess and leave this useless post behind to make you aware that there WAS something... "
-Equinox

"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged

Thanks for the information guys. I appreciate you guys taking the time to response. On the sampling size as the factor that may skew my observation. I would like to know how many of you are experiencing similar drop stats? Also I think the weight of the roll is leaning toward "trash" more than "usable". Have anyone of you ever had a session where you had rare iLvl61+ items dropped where 50% of it were actually usable?

All I'm saying is Blizzard seems to tell us about everything being random chance but it's really not that random. It's a rigged random system. The dice are weighted to give you more trash items.

Let's use iLvl63 as an example. First we have a random chance depending on which inferno act is to get an item at lLvl63. Then you have random chance to get 4-6 affixes. Then you have random chance to get the affixes to be within a certain range. I get all that. The stats for the affixes are what I have a problem with. The usability of an item is determine by the stats. More often we get an item for the affixes we liked but the stats are trash.

Have anyone of you ever had a session where you had rare iLvl61+ items dropped where 50% of it were actually usable?

No, because thats just not the way it should be. RNG doesnt mean everything will be 50:50...RNG means it will be random. The percentages of the resulting outcomes are defined by Blizzard in their algorithm of item drops + affix count + affix combination.
Every second item useful...this would be hilarious

And thinking one step further...even IF every second item would be useful. The items would still be crap, because everyone gets those "useful" items -> to get a worthful item you would still have to get lucky on perfect stats.

If you use the AH, you're going to be predisposed to gear that is really good. Truth is, there is a lot of "good" gear that drops. It's unlikely that it will be good for you, but probably good for someone else. What do you do? You put it up on the AH for some odd amount.

The idea here is that you're basically taking the combined farm time of a lot of different people to get you gear. For you to find a good piece of gear, not only does it have to drop, but it has to drop for you (not your potential farmers). If you decided that you weren't going to use the AH at all, you would have much worse gear and you would be finding gear at about the same rate.

If the RNG on diablo 3 is truly random then it should be impossible to get two of the same items with exact stats,name,gold sell price and durability form 2 different mobs, well folks a friend of mine did.

What the hell is up with that 50% of items should be usable if RNG is true?
I mean is it that hard to get that for instance chest got those affixes
-primary stat
-vit
-allres
-singleres
-%life
-hp regen
-magic find
-gold find
-reduced dmg from meele or ranged or elites
-thorns
-demon hunter skills
-sockets
-pick up radius
-+armor
- and propably couple of more I cannot recon right now

All of those affixes afficed summed out give around proly up to 25 different affixes just on SINGLE item. Now half of those affixes are trash for everyone, then you got some that are decent for some classes, then u need a combination of those 3-4 affixes that are decent for some classes to make item decent and then u need good rolls on those affixes.
How in your logic it should be 50% for item to be usable? I dont want to give false numbers, but it is propably like 2-5% for item to be usable with decent rolls if not less.

Lottery is no RNG either, because last time I checked, I lost on the first try and did NOT win on the second try, although winning vs. losing should be close to even. Thats Madness!

What a dumb comparison, you're not supposed to be able to win the damn lottery in order to decently gear you character to be able to play end-game content, i agree the winning vs loosing shouldnt be even but they really must revise the drop system or at least make Legendaries more accesible and comparable to decent (usable) rares

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Working with adobe and/or java is like pushing a paper clip against a building and expecting it to move...

If the RNG on diablo 3 is truly random then it should be impossible to get two of the same items with exact stats,name,gold sell price and durability form 2 different mobs, well folks a friend of mine did.

no not really, even in truly random scenarios you can get 2 equal outcomes, even in a row at times

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Working with adobe and/or java is like pushing a paper clip against a building and expecting it to move...

If the RNG on diablo 3 is truly random then it should be impossible to get two of the same items with exact stats,name,gold sell price and durability form 2 different mobs, well folks a friend of mine did.

no not really, even in truly random scenarios you can get 2 equal outcomes, even in a row at times

QFT. People tend to think that random means no repetition but say for a truly random sequence of 10 digits you could still get 0000000000 though the odds of it are 1 in 10^10.

There has been many people getting dupe items which is indicative of a bug, but a single occurrence is not enough on its own to indicate anything about the randomness of the system.

Random doesn't mean that you have a 50% chance of getting a good item.

One poster above compared it to lottery, which is quite a good comparison. It happens relatively often that you get one or two number (or item properties) right, but to get a good item you need at least 3-4 useful properties, and for a great item all five or six of them have to line up... this is very unlikely, and you need hundreds of item drops to find one that is great.

Just to elaborate further on that. Random does not mean (as mentioned multiple times) that useful and useless appear about 50%. Random means that any event e gets a probability to occur (between 0 and 1, all add up to 1). Now blizz decided to make the event "usefull" just about 5% , that does not change the fact that it is a random experiment. The way how probabilities are distributed over events is in fact called distribution.

But to get facts straight, since computers are deterministic machines, they can only use pseudo random number generators. These generators use number sequences where the elements of that sequences are a valid statistics for a given distribution. Those generators are initialised with a so called seed, this seed tells us the specific sequence that is chosen.

If you are able to get the seed you can reproduce exact the same "random" numbers

There was once a security flaw on (openssl) RSA encryption on UNIX systems. They used the process ID as a seed for their key generation method. Since there were only about 30k Process IDs , attackers could try out any seed between 0 and 30k and eventually reproduced the private keys.

If you chose the seeds wisely , you can hardly distinguish the pseudo random numbers from random numbers. I do not know how blizz initializes their PNRGs.

Additional :

There are ways of getting true random number generators. You can use a temperature measurement device and just take the last n decimal places. If you chose n wisely , you get a pretty solid normal distribution. (depends also on the device)

FYI

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It seems that of all the rare drops we get for iLvl61 to iLvl63, only a small number of the items are usable in inferno. I don't exactly have a count but it seems less than 5% of the items are usable. This bring me to conclude that the RNG in D3 is a rigged system where Blizzard only allowed a small number of usable items for the end game. If it were true RNG then the ratio for "usable vs trash" would be close to even.

Note: Usable is an item that someone would use in any of the Act in inferno. Trash is an item someone would just vendor or salvage.

Is this old info? If not, can someone help me backup this claim? Is this how the drop system works?

I'm at a point where I'm frustrated with this game. Hours of doing the same thing over and over again in hopes of finding an upgrade is boring me to death.

Unless of course there are blizz employees throwing dice every time loot is dropped.

^this!!!

Switched to hc recently with a 52wiz and im loving it. Farming act3 inf on my barb is just plain boring. I mean what's the point in farming? So that my farming is even more efficient?

Oh yeah?, tell me more about this, its a quite interesting fact.

Furthermore, weights can be added to stats to make them appear less (which is also why legendaries are so much rarer than rares) on average. This does mean that a streak of good luck can mean that every item you'll ever see is a legendary. It can also mean that you'll never see a legendary.

Also, for the statistics to even start approaching a normal distribution, you need thousand upon thousands of samples (the more the better obviously). I'm not a statistician, but have friends who are, and they tend to scoff at sample pools of less than 100k (of course, depending on the repeatability of the experiment producing the samples). Your 200+ hours of playing will quite likely not have producded a statistically significant number of rares.

-Equinox

"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"

-Winged

All I'm saying is Blizzard seems to tell us about everything being random chance but it's really not that random. It's a rigged random system. The dice are weighted to give you more trash items.

Let's use iLvl63 as an example. First we have a random chance depending on which inferno act is to get an item at lLvl63. Then you have random chance to get 4-6 affixes. Then you have random chance to get the affixes to be within a certain range. I get all that. The stats for the affixes are what I have a problem with. The usability of an item is determine by the stats. More often we get an item for the affixes we liked but the stats are trash.

<Blowing off some more steams...fizzzzzzzzzzzzz>

No, because thats just not the way it should be. RNG doesnt mean everything will be 50:50...RNG means it will be random. The percentages of the resulting outcomes are defined by Blizzard in their algorithm of item drops + affix count + affix combination.

Every second item useful...this would be hilarious

And thinking one step further...even IF every second item would be useful. The items would still be crap, because everyone gets those "useful" items -> to get a worthful item you would still have to get lucky on perfect stats.

If you use the AH, you're going to be predisposed to gear that is really good. Truth is, there is a lot of "good" gear that drops. It's unlikely that it will be good for you, but probably good for someone else. What do you do? You put it up on the AH for some odd amount.

The idea here is that you're basically taking the combined farm time of a lot of different people to get you gear. For you to find a good piece of gear, not only does it have to drop, but it has to drop for

you(not your potential farmers). If you decided that you weren't going to use the AH at all, you would have much worse gear and you would be finding gear at about the same rate.I mean is it that hard to get that for instance chest got those affixes

-primary stat

-vit

-allres

-singleres

-%life

-hp regen

-magic find

-gold find

-reduced dmg from meele or ranged or elites

-thorns

-demon hunter skills

-sockets

-pick up radius

-+armor

- and propably couple of more I cannot recon right now

All of those affixes afficed summed out give around proly up to 25 different affixes just on SINGLE item. Now half of those affixes are trash for everyone, then you got some that are decent for some classes, then u need a combination of those 3-4 affixes that are decent for some classes to make item decent and then u need good rolls on those affixes.

How in your logic it should be 50% for item to be usable? I dont want to give false numbers, but it is propably like 2-5% for item to be usable with decent rolls if not less.

What a dumb comparison, you're not supposed to be able to win the damn lottery in order to decently gear you character to be able to play end-game content, i agree the winning vs loosing shouldnt be even but they really must revise the drop system or at least make Legendaries more accesible and comparable to decent (usable) rares

Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?

Final Fantasy 7

no not really, even in truly random scenarios you can get 2 equal outcomes, even in a row at times

Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?

Final Fantasy 7

There has been many people getting dupe items which is indicative of a bug, but a single occurrence is not enough on its own to indicate anything about the randomness of the system.

One poster above compared it to lottery, which is quite a good comparison. It happens relatively often that you get one or two number (or item properties) right, but to get a good item you need at least 3-4 useful properties, and for a great item all five or six of them have to line up... this is very unlikely, and you need hundreds of item drops to find one that is great.

But to get facts straight, since computers are deterministic machines, they can only use pseudo random number generators. These generators use number sequences where the elements of that sequences are a valid statistics for a given distribution. Those generators are initialised with a so called seed, this seed tells us the specific sequence that is chosen.

If you are able to get the seed you can reproduce exact the same "random" numbersThere was once a security flaw on (openssl) RSA encryption on UNIX systems. They used the process ID as a seed for their key generation method. Since there were only about 30k Process IDs , attackers could try out any seed between 0 and 30k and eventually reproduced the private keys.

If you chose the seeds wisely , you can hardly distinguish the pseudo random numbers from random numbers. I do not know how blizz initializes their PNRGs.

Additional :

There are ways of getting true random number generators. You can use a temperature measurement device and just take the last n decimal places. If you chose n wisely , you get a pretty solid normal distribution. (depends also on the device)

FYI