The explanation in countless postings claims that regardless of the details, because both weapons ultimately are rated as 1000 DPS, both weapons, after let's say 10 seconds, will do exactly the same amount of damage. Putting aside the other benefits (LoH, etc.), what would the 20% vs 40% mean to me as a monk or as a barbarian or as a wizard?
+damage% is just multiplying the base damage of your weapon. so a 100-200 damage weapon with a +50% damage will be 150-300 damage instead. thats the basics.
now if we add + min/max damage and elemental damage i dont know if it is claclulated before or after +damage%, but my guess is that it is calculated this way.
base damage > +min/max > +damage% > +elemental damage.
have not recearched it enought so i dont kown exsactly.
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Eerie and Vomica, you have said two different things! If I understand you, Eerie, the FIERCE weapon will average 1200 DPS while the BRUTE weapon will average 1400 DPS. Vomica, I believe you're saying the FIERCE weapon will do (450+550)/2 + 200 to 300 either result x 120% which would be 840 to 960 DPS. The same calculations for the BRUTE weapon would result in well more than 1700DPS
It's simple. All damage stats are already included in the dps and damage range figures. No need to to any extra math. The fact that the tooltip lists the bonus damage is basically useless other than to show you how the dps and damage range are what they are.
The % damage and bonuses to min and max mean absolutely nothing. Look only at the dps and damage range of the weapon.
Math for your two weapons:
Fierce Dagger:
Min Base Damage = 450/1.2 - 200 = 175
Max Base Damage = 550/1.2 - 300 = 158.3333...***
Base Weapon DPS = (175 + 158)/2 * 2.0 = 333.3
Post-affix DPS = 1.2*(175 + 200 + 158 + 300)/2 * 2.0 = 1000
*** Note that these numbers can't actually occur in-game. If numbers like these actually happened in-game, the Max Base Damage would be set as 451.
Brute Mace:
Base Min Damage = 750/1.4 - 400 = 135.71428571428571428571428571429
Base Max Damage = 850/1.4 - 500 = 107.14285714285714285714285714286
Base Weapon DPS = (136 + 107) / 2 * 1.25 = 151.8
Post-affix DPS = 1.4 * (136 + 107 + 400 + 500)/2 * 1.25 = 1000
Again, your numbers wouldn't actually occur like this in-game since your base max is lower than your base min, but I used them as is.
Also note that in both cases I use the full decimal numbers and not the rounded versions for the calculations (I just put the rounded versions because the decimals weren't usually short or terminating).
At the end, what's essentially happening is the displayed weapon dps is the Post-affix DPS (meaning after all the weapon's modifiers have been added in), not the Base Weapon DPS.
now if we add + min/max damage and elemental damage i dont know if it is claclulated before or after +damage%, but my guess is that it is calculated this way.
base damage > +min/max > +damage% > +elemental damage.
have not recearched it enought so i dont kown exsactly.
That is how it works. Physical damage boosts (that are on the weapons, so rings and such don't count here, but rubies do) will get added together and multiplied by the %Damage, and then Elemental DPS gets added in after that.
now if we add + min/max damage and elemental damage i dont know if it is claclulated before or after +damage%, but my guess is that it is calculated this way.
base damage > +min/max > +damage% > +elemental damage.
have not recearched it enought so i dont kown exsactly.
That is how it works. Physical damage boosts (that are on the weapons, so rings and such don't count here, but rubies do) will get added together and multiplied by the %Damage, and then Elemental DPS gets added in after that.
This is wrong, all bonuses are already calculated into the dps and damage range numbers including elemental damage.
Paying extra for a weapon because it has 50% bonus weapon damage or a billion holy damage is a complete waste of money.
now if we add + min/max damage and elemental damage i dont know if it is claclulated before or after +damage%, but my guess is that it is calculated this way.
base damage > +min/max > +damage% > +elemental damage.
have not recearched it enought so i dont kown exsactly.
That is how it works. Physical damage boosts (that are on the weapons, so rings and such don't count here, but rubies do) will get added together and multiplied by the %Damage, and then Elemental DPS gets added in after that.
This is wrong, all bonuses are already calculated into the dps and damage range numbers including elemental damage.
Paying extra for a weapon because it has 50% bonus weapon damage or a billion holy damage is a complete waste of money.
That is in fact how the math works for the weapon's dps. The posts you quoted didn't say that those bonuses aren't reflected in the weapon's dps tooltip, but rather talked about the order of how they're calculated (and what the percent damage gets applied to).
now if we add + min/max damage and elemental damage i dont know if it is claclulated before or after +damage%, but my guess is that it is calculated this way.
base damage > +min/max > +damage% > +elemental damage.
have not recearched it enought so i dont kown exsactly.
That is how it works. Physical damage boosts (that are on the weapons, so rings and such don't count here, but rubies do) will get added together and multiplied by the %Damage, and then Elemental DPS gets added in after that.
This is wrong, all bonuses are already calculated into the dps and damage range numbers including elemental damage.
Paying extra for a weapon because it has 50% bonus weapon damage or a billion holy damage is a complete waste of money.
That is in fact how the math works for the weapon's dps. The posts you quoted didn't say that those bonuses aren't reflected in the weapon's dps tooltip, but rather talked about the order of how they're calculated (and what the percent damage gets applied to).
You're right, what I quoted simply stated "base damage" and given the direction of the conversation I took their definition of base damage to mean what the tool tip displays, which isn't actually base damage. So either they were referring incorrectly to base damage or they're concerned with how the math works to determine what's stated on the tool tip which is certainly possible but highly unlikely.
That being said, what I quoted also differentiates between physical damage bonuses and elemental damage bonuses. In actuality there is no difference, it's nothing more than a visual effect (except that cold can also chill targets) and both contribute to the weapon's damage identically.
In the end there's nothing to calculate unless you're losing sleep wondering what the weapon's true base damage is for some reason... which was not what this thread was started for.
What you quoted differentiates between physical and elemental because they are treated differently in the calculations. It does matter that physical gets boosted by %weapon damage and elemental doesn't for someone asking to fully understand how they work.
Whoa ... back up a bit guys! It's this kind of back and forth that leads to confusion. The question remains, what is the point of knowing that some of the resultant 1000 DPS is created by +Damage if it only matters that the 1000 DPS is the same for both weapons? And if it is just FYI, why have it as a 'searchable' field when considering weapons? In my particular situation: Does a monk depending on LifeOnHit see any merit in a higher +Damage weapon over that which has a higher attack speed? Of the two example weapons I created, after 10 seconds would they have done the same damage regardless of what class wields them?
To be honest, the only reason I can think is that the devs don't want to have hidden modifiers, so they expose all the affixes contributing to the weapon's dps. As far as how it can help a player, some people could want a slower, heavy-hitting weapon so their skills do bigger damage (by virtue of having a higher starting base) and some could want a faster weapon that doesn't hit as hard.
I haven't looked into the specifics of how LoH works, so I can't answer that part, although I would think faster would be better so you get more procs out of it (again, I could be wrong on this part as I haven't researched LoH yet).
And yes, the two weapons in your example would do equal damage because 1k dps is 1k dps; the way in which the dps is achieved is where the difference lies.
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I've created two fictitious weapons, to serve as examples:
Fierce Dagger
1000 DPS
450-550 Damage
2.0 Attack Speed
+20% Damage
+200 Minimum
+300 Maximum
Brute Mace
1000 DPS
750-850 Damage
1.25 Attack Speed
+40% Damage
+400 Minimum
+500 Maximum
The explanation in countless postings claims that regardless of the details, because both weapons ultimately are rated as 1000 DPS, both weapons, after let's say 10 seconds, will do exactly the same amount of damage. Putting aside the other benefits (LoH, etc.), what would the 20% vs 40% mean to me as a monk or as a barbarian or as a wizard?
now if we add + min/max damage and elemental damage i dont know if it is claclulated before or after +damage%, but my guess is that it is calculated this way.
base damage > +min/max > +damage% > +elemental damage.
have not recearched it enought so i dont kown exsactly.
EU Season Achievement Ladder: Season 1 : #773, 7150/7880 | S2 : #742, 5970/8280 | S3 : #1000+, 810/980 | S4 #? 0/? |
The % damage and bonuses to min and max mean absolutely nothing. Look only at the dps and damage range of the weapon.
Math for your two weapons:
Fierce Dagger:
Min Base Damage = 450/1.2 - 200 = 175
Max Base Damage = 550/1.2 - 300 = 158.3333...***
Base Weapon DPS = (175 + 158)/2 * 2.0 = 333.3
Post-affix DPS = 1.2*(175 + 200 + 158 + 300)/2 * 2.0 = 1000
*** Note that these numbers can't actually occur in-game. If numbers like these actually happened in-game, the Max Base Damage would be set as 451.
Brute Mace:
Base Min Damage = 750/1.4 - 400 = 135.71428571428571428571428571429
Base Max Damage = 850/1.4 - 500 = 107.14285714285714285714285714286
Base Weapon DPS = (136 + 107) / 2 * 1.25 = 151.8
Post-affix DPS = 1.4 * (136 + 107 + 400 + 500)/2 * 1.25 = 1000
Again, your numbers wouldn't actually occur like this in-game since your base max is lower than your base min, but I used them as is.
Also note that in both cases I use the full decimal numbers and not the rounded versions for the calculations (I just put the rounded versions because the decimals weren't usually short or terminating).
At the end, what's essentially happening is the displayed weapon dps is the Post-affix DPS (meaning after all the weapon's modifiers have been added in), not the Base Weapon DPS.
That is how it works. Physical damage boosts (that are on the weapons, so rings and such don't count here, but rubies do) will get added together and multiplied by the %Damage, and then Elemental DPS gets added in after that.
This is wrong, all bonuses are already calculated into the dps and damage range numbers including elemental damage.
Paying extra for a weapon because it has 50% bonus weapon damage or a billion holy damage is a complete waste of money.
That is in fact how the math works for the weapon's dps. The posts you quoted didn't say that those bonuses aren't reflected in the weapon's dps tooltip, but rather talked about the order of how they're calculated (and what the percent damage gets applied to).
You're right, what I quoted simply stated "base damage" and given the direction of the conversation I took their definition of base damage to mean what the tool tip displays, which isn't actually base damage. So either they were referring incorrectly to base damage or they're concerned with how the math works to determine what's stated on the tool tip which is certainly possible but highly unlikely.
That being said, what I quoted also differentiates between physical damage bonuses and elemental damage bonuses. In actuality there is no difference, it's nothing more than a visual effect (except that cold can also chill targets) and both contribute to the weapon's damage identically.
In the end there's nothing to calculate unless you're losing sleep wondering what the weapon's true base damage is for some reason... which was not what this thread was started for.
I haven't looked into the specifics of how LoH works, so I can't answer that part, although I would think faster would be better so you get more procs out of it (again, I could be wrong on this part as I haven't researched LoH yet).
And yes, the two weapons in your example would do equal damage because 1k dps is 1k dps; the way in which the dps is achieved is where the difference lies.