It just seems weird that they would even bother showing us the others, maybe its like a timeline... the one in the cinematic is first (no demons), the spikey one is the mountain starting to shift and break(demons starting to gather), and finally it falls through into whatever unholy abyss(shitload of demons).
I think you guys are still putting too much importance into Baal's soulstone. Personally, I believe it was destroyed by the shockwave coming from the shattered Worldstone. And isn't the Worldstone the source of the Soulstone's power? Wouldn't the destruction of the Worldstone render any remaining Soulstone's and their power inert? Thus if Baal had nothing left on the mortal realm to contain his essence, then he might have been banished to the Great Abyss where he coalesced with his two brothers into the three headed demon we see in the intro.
when they released mephisto, the largest shard was given to his high priest so he could become mephisto incarnate - i'm assuming the largest shard was the only one large enough for mephisto's power, otherwise we would have 7 mephistos running around everywhere
it also fits with the baal part - the shard must be a certain size to be able to contain the power of one of the prime evils, the other 6 shards from mephisto's soulstone were not large enough to hold his power
but the peices, however small, would still have a part of mephisto right? so if someone collected all six of the smaller peices and stabed them into themself or bound with them or whatever-they would have a larger peice of mephisto in them than the simple one peice in D2. Right?
The Demon then had the priests work spells to shatter the Soulstone into seven shards, breaking the mystic seal and freeing the Lord of Hatred.
The Lord of Hatred went into the larger piece, but left enough evilness in the other pieces to corrupt the Council
We know from the novels that even when a place is devoid of the evil entity, a lingering magical copy (if you want too call it that) can remain... That both effected Horazon and Bartuc in the Legacy of Blood. So I'm assuming that when a soulstone is used too hold something like a Prime Evil, even when its emptied, the soulstone itself is corrupted with their essence
When Leoric set up court in the abandoned Monastery, Lazarus was lured into the monastery's depths by Diablo, where Lazarus proceeded to shatter the soulstone that imprisoned the Prime Evil.
Thats just wrong... He must of stabbed the soulstone into the boys forehead and not shattered it
During the attempt to contain him inside a Soulstone, the stone was shattered and the largest remaining shard was not enough to contain the demon.
That means there is some smaller shards of Soulstone somewhere that were unused, either in the desert sands or in some Horadrim place
It also means that when Baal dies at the end of A5, and his physical body dies (Who is Tal Rasha), that his only remaining anchor too this world is a broken part of a soulstone, as Tal Rasha would not longer be used as an anchor at this point. His soul couldn't be contained in that soulstone, so my guess it that it either goes back to "roaming sanctuary" or goes too the abyss
Perhaps Baals spirit is roaming sanctuary now, in a weakened state, waiting for his brothers too get out of the abyss (because their soulstones were destroyed by the hammer, not just broken). We know from the novels that this is quite possible for a Demon (too roam Sanctuary in spirit form), but without physical anchors, like Angels on Sanctuary, they are quite weak
Quote from "Siaynoq" »
Thus if Baal had nothing left on the mortal realm to contain his essence, then he might have been banished to the Great Abyss
I think you only get banished too the Great Abyss when your essence is given a good Hell Hammering
Otherwise an ordinary hammer would of been enough too send them too the Abyss
but the peices, however small, would still have a part of mephisto right? so if someone collected all six of the smaller peices and stabed them into themself or bound with them or whatever-they would have a larger peice of mephisto in them than the simple one peice in D2. Right?
I'm not really sure if this helps at all, but I don't think there was ever any doubt that the lesser shards had demonic power in them. They were taken and jammed in to the hands of the Council Members to completely subvert them, physically and mentally, to the will of the corrupted Zakarum, Mephisto.
When you engage in a story, there are certain points that may not seem logical, but the author(s) have the distinct privilege to tweak things a little every now and then, and even more so in a fantasy setting. I'm guessing- this would be kind of getting away from actual lore and just speculating- that the largest soulstone shard was the one that Mephisto's being would be able to en-dwell, with the lesser pieces being only containers of his essence. But that's just conjecture.
Thats what I was thinking. All these smaller shards have demonic power left in them.
Demonic perhaps, but not necessarily parts of Mephisto himself.
Quote from "Magistrate" »
I'm not really sure if this helps at all, but I don't think there was ever any doubt that the lesser shards had demonic power in them. They were taken and jammed in to the hands of the Council Members to completely subvert them, physically and mentally, to the will of the corrupted Zakarum, Mephisto.
See that's no all clear anymore. It USED to say that on Arreat Summit, but it doesn't anymore.
PlugY for Diablo II allows you to reset skills and stats, transfer items between characters in singleplayer, obtain all ladder runewords and do all Uberquests while offline. It is the only way to do all of the above. Please use it.
Supporting big shoulderpads and flashy armor since 2004.
A common misconception is that the Worldstone stopped Angels and Demons from freely entering Sanctuary... This is not so.
The Worldstone only stopped Sanctuary from being instantly discovered by the High Heavens and the Burning Hells... In other words, it hid Sanctuary.
Trag'Oul is the one mainly responsible for helping to keep Sanctuary hidden. He's basically a giant dragon of pure stars who is unknown in existance even by the greatest demons and angels. He's basically the god of secrecy for Sanctuary. He keeps it hidden from heaven and hell...
However, in the Third Sin War book, he failed, and -even with the worldstone in place- massive armies of Angels and Demons swarmed the planet when they found Sanctuary. It was just much harder for them to find it.
Now, all this conjecture about angels and demons FLOODING Sanctuary the moment the Worldstone is destroyed...
Mephisto himself made a pact with the Angiris council 10,000 years ago that they would leave Sanctuary as a Neutral Zone, lest the angels would destroy Sanctuary instantly. All the angels agreed and so did Mephisto that they'd let the humans decide for themselves to join Heaven or Hell, because they both agreed humans could be valuable. So, I don't know whats happened in Diablo 3.
As for the soulstones...
In order for a prime evil to take over a host on the mortal realm WHEN THEY ARE IMRPISONED, aka, the Prime Evils were on Sanctuary a long time before they were actually imprisoned into the Soulstones, the largest shard must be plunged into the head or body somewhere I'm assuming.
If there is a large shard, and many smaller shards, the smaller shards will only bring forth lesser to moderate demons, whereas the largest shard will bring forth the prime evil, albeit much weaker if his stone was not complete and split into shards. We can see this clearly from Diablo 2, as Mephisto is cake whereas Diablo takes a lot more effort to down, even though Mephisto is the oldest of the brothers.
As for shattering the soulstones... All the demons in soulstones return to their original plane of existance, in this sense, true Hell. In hell, Azmodan and Belial are having a lot of fun after the Dark Exile of the three brothers, but, now, for the most part, Diablo and Mephisto -should- be back, and completely fucking up Azmodan and Belial now. I don't know what hapened with Baal, as we never saw his soulstone smashed.
EDIT: There is also a large consensus that states the Prime Evils wanted to be killed and have their soulstones destroyed, simply because that would send them back to true hell, where they wanted to be ever since The Dark Exile.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"When men are most sure and arrogant, they are commonly the most mistaken, and have then given views to passion, without that proper deliberation and suspense which can alone secure them from the grossest absurdities"
Now, all this conjecture about angels and demons FLOODING Sanctuary the moment the Worldstone is destroyed...
Mephisto himself made a pact with the Angiris council 10,000 years ago that they would leave Sanctuary as a Neutral Zone, lest the angels would destroy Sanctuary instantly. All the angels agreed and so did Mephisto that they'd let the humans decide for themselves to join Heaven or Hell, because they both agreed humans could be valuable. So, I don't know whats happened in Diablo 3.
Which obviously isn't meant to last. Those guys have been at each other's throats since time began, no way they're going to keep a pact forever.
Quote from "LordRayken" »
As for the soulstones...
In order for a prime evil to take over a host on the mortal realm WHEN THEY ARE IMRPISONED, aka, the Prime Evils were on Sanctuary a long time before they were actually imprisoned into the Soulstones, the largest shard must be plunged into the head or body somewhere I'm assuming.
This seems to be how it works yes.
Quote from "LordRayken" »
If there is a large shard, and many smaller shards, the smaller shards will only bring forth lesser to moderate demons, whereas the largest shard will bring forth the prime evil, albeit much weaker if his stone was not complete and split into shards. We can see this clearly from Diablo 2, as Mephisto is cake whereas Diablo takes a lot more effort to down, even though Mephisto is the oldest of the brothers.
This however is entirely speculation on your part.
Mephisto was weaker because your character was lower level. It's a game balance issue, it has nothing to do with lore.
Quote from "LordRayken" »
As for shattering the soulstones... All the demons in soulstones return to their original plane of existance, in this sense, true Hell. In hell, Azmodan and Belial are having a lot of fun after the Dark Exile of the three brothers, but, now, for the most part, Diablo and Mephisto -should- be back, and completely fucking up Azmodan and Belial now. I don't know what hapened with Baal, as we never saw his soulstone smashed.
Which is also speculation, because what would be the point of killing Diablo in Hell and then smash his soulstone, just to get him back.
The general consent is that Diablo and Mephisto have both been banished to the Abyss, and smashing the soulstones was necessary to stop them from coming bakc by possessing another being.
PlugY for Diablo II allows you to reset skills and stats, transfer items between characters in singleplayer, obtain all ladder runewords and do all Uberquests while offline. It is the only way to do all of the above. Please use it.
Supporting big shoulderpads and flashy armor since 2004.
This however is entirely speculation on your part.
Mephisto was weaker because your character was lower level. It's a game balance issue, it has nothing to do with lore.
Lore dictates game balance, especially with Blizzard North. If Mephisto was not inherently weaker than Diablo, he would not have been able to be killed earlier in the game. He also wouldnt have been content for lower level characters, but he was. I'm not going to say this as fact, however, I do know Baal was so powerful, they decided to use him in an expansion of his own... Aka, at level 20 or so, you got to kill Duriel... But Baal wasn't there... Its a question of why they chose Baal for the expansion. Almost simply put, because you couldnt of killed Baal at level 20 so they removed him entirely and gave you Duriel.
Quote from "PhrozenDragon" »
Which is also speculation, because what would be the point of killing Diablo in Hell and then smash his soulstone, just to get him back.
The general consent is that Diablo and Mephisto have both been banished to the Abyss, and smashing the soulstones was necessary to stop them from coming bakc by possessing another being.
Because it removes Diablo and Mephisto from Sanctuary, in effect, they have to find it all over again. You were only fighting their Spirit forms, after all. Their physical forms were still in Hell waiting for their spirits to return, at least, I don't know where else their physical forms would be.
Also, the "hell" in Diablo 2 may not be the actual, real hell, as Azmodan and Belial were nowhere to be found, nor any of their followers.
Also, smashing the soulstones was needed so they would be banished back to Hell again, and no longer be present on Sanctuary. This is simple, because, the prime evils were on Sanctuary without Soulstones to begin with. In other words, they only needed to possess a human being because they were imprisoned. Without the soulstones, they have free reign and are in their "true demonic" forms. They don't need a host without being imprisoned in the soulstone.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"When men are most sure and arrogant, they are commonly the most mistaken, and have then given views to passion, without that proper deliberation and suspense which can alone secure them from the grossest absurdities"
See that's no all clear anymore. It USED to say that on Arreat Summit, but it doesn't anymore.
Oh, wow, that must have just happened. That is kind of weird. They obviously had to do it on purpose. Of course, the soulstone shard is still jammed in to the GIF's hand, but still. I wonder why they did that.
I just didn't expect it to start happening so soon. And especially over such an interesting phenomenon. However, I, personally, will still regard that as cannon unless Blizzard actually releases new information to counter it. I think someone should make a point of this in the Wiki with the Council Members, or where ever applicable.
If the lore's changed, it's definitley not good. I hate it when things are retconned. I don't think the Diablo 3 team should change anything the Diablo 1 and 2 team set in motion, in my opinion.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"When men are most sure and arrogant, they are commonly the most mistaken, and have then given views to passion, without that proper deliberation and suspense which can alone secure them from the grossest absurdities"
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Fuck you, I'm a dragon.
Siaynoq's Playthroughs
but the peices, however small, would still have a part of mephisto right? so if someone collected all six of the smaller peices and stabed them into themself or bound with them or whatever-they would have a larger peice of mephisto in them than the simple one peice in D2. Right?
The soulstones were given to trap the prime evils, and baals was damaged, and to set these demons lose they had to be broken.
Okay, so we had to take the (mother?) shard and dispose of it, it being the true anchor to this world.
But I'm not sure.
We know from the novels that even when a place is devoid of the evil entity, a lingering magical copy (if you want too call it that) can remain... That both effected Horazon and Bartuc in the Legacy of Blood. So I'm assuming that when a soulstone is used too hold something like a Prime Evil, even when its emptied, the soulstone itself is corrupted with their essence
Thats just wrong... He must of stabbed the soulstone into the boys forehead and not shattered it
That means there is some smaller shards of Soulstone somewhere that were unused, either in the desert sands or in some Horadrim place
It also means that when Baal dies at the end of A5, and his physical body dies (Who is Tal Rasha), that his only remaining anchor too this world is a broken part of a soulstone, as Tal Rasha would not longer be used as an anchor at this point. His soul couldn't be contained in that soulstone, so my guess it that it either goes back to "roaming sanctuary" or goes too the abyss
Perhaps Baals spirit is roaming sanctuary now, in a weakened state, waiting for his brothers too get out of the abyss (because their soulstones were destroyed by the hammer, not just broken). We know from the novels that this is quite possible for a Demon (too roam Sanctuary in spirit form), but without physical anchors, like Angels on Sanctuary, they are quite weak
I think you only get banished too the Great Abyss when your essence is given a good Hell Hammering
Otherwise an ordinary hammer would of been enough too send them too the Abyss
http://worldofsanctuary.freehostia.com/index.php?address=0101010502
The Awakening.
I guess he attempted to just shatter it and when that didn't work used the largest shard on the boys head.
I'm not really sure if this helps at all, but I don't think there was ever any doubt that the lesser shards had demonic power in them. They were taken and jammed in to the hands of the Council Members to completely subvert them, physically and mentally, to the will of the corrupted Zakarum, Mephisto.
When you engage in a story, there are certain points that may not seem logical, but the author(s) have the distinct privilege to tweak things a little every now and then, and even more so in a fantasy setting. I'm guessing- this would be kind of getting away from actual lore and just speculating- that the largest soulstone shard was the one that Mephisto's being would be able to en-dwell, with the lesser pieces being only containers of his essence. But that's just conjecture.
See that's no all clear anymore. It USED to say that on Arreat Summit, but it doesn't anymore.
http://classic.battle.net/diablo2exp/monsters/act3-councilmember.shtml
I thnk it was Genesis who pulled up a link to a korean version where the hold "jamming soulshards" part was still there, but I can't remember.
The Worldstone only stopped Sanctuary from being instantly discovered by the High Heavens and the Burning Hells... In other words, it hid Sanctuary.
Trag'Oul is the one mainly responsible for helping to keep Sanctuary hidden. He's basically a giant dragon of pure stars who is unknown in existance even by the greatest demons and angels. He's basically the god of secrecy for Sanctuary. He keeps it hidden from heaven and hell...
However, in the Third Sin War book, he failed, and -even with the worldstone in place- massive armies of Angels and Demons swarmed the planet when they found Sanctuary. It was just much harder for them to find it.
Now, all this conjecture about angels and demons FLOODING Sanctuary the moment the Worldstone is destroyed...
Mephisto himself made a pact with the Angiris council 10,000 years ago that they would leave Sanctuary as a Neutral Zone, lest the angels would destroy Sanctuary instantly. All the angels agreed and so did Mephisto that they'd let the humans decide for themselves to join Heaven or Hell, because they both agreed humans could be valuable. So, I don't know whats happened in Diablo 3.
As for the soulstones...
In order for a prime evil to take over a host on the mortal realm WHEN THEY ARE IMRPISONED, aka, the Prime Evils were on Sanctuary a long time before they were actually imprisoned into the Soulstones, the largest shard must be plunged into the head or body somewhere I'm assuming.
If there is a large shard, and many smaller shards, the smaller shards will only bring forth lesser to moderate demons, whereas the largest shard will bring forth the prime evil, albeit much weaker if his stone was not complete and split into shards. We can see this clearly from Diablo 2, as Mephisto is cake whereas Diablo takes a lot more effort to down, even though Mephisto is the oldest of the brothers.
As for shattering the soulstones... All the demons in soulstones return to their original plane of existance, in this sense, true Hell. In hell, Azmodan and Belial are having a lot of fun after the Dark Exile of the three brothers, but, now, for the most part, Diablo and Mephisto -should- be back, and completely fucking up Azmodan and Belial now. I don't know what hapened with Baal, as we never saw his soulstone smashed.
EDIT: There is also a large consensus that states the Prime Evils wanted to be killed and have their soulstones destroyed, simply because that would send them back to true hell, where they wanted to be ever since The Dark Exile.
This seems to be how it works yes.
This however is entirely speculation on your part.
Mephisto was weaker because your character was lower level. It's a game balance issue, it has nothing to do with lore.
Which is also speculation, because what would be the point of killing Diablo in Hell and then smash his soulstone, just to get him back.
The general consent is that Diablo and Mephisto have both been banished to the Abyss, and smashing the soulstones was necessary to stop them from coming bakc by possessing another being.
Lore dictates game balance, especially with Blizzard North. If Mephisto was not inherently weaker than Diablo, he would not have been able to be killed earlier in the game. He also wouldnt have been content for lower level characters, but he was. I'm not going to say this as fact, however, I do know Baal was so powerful, they decided to use him in an expansion of his own... Aka, at level 20 or so, you got to kill Duriel... But Baal wasn't there... Its a question of why they chose Baal for the expansion. Almost simply put, because you couldnt of killed Baal at level 20 so they removed him entirely and gave you Duriel.
Because it removes Diablo and Mephisto from Sanctuary, in effect, they have to find it all over again. You were only fighting their Spirit forms, after all. Their physical forms were still in Hell waiting for their spirits to return, at least, I don't know where else their physical forms would be.
Also, the "hell" in Diablo 2 may not be the actual, real hell, as Azmodan and Belial were nowhere to be found, nor any of their followers.
Also, smashing the soulstones was needed so they would be banished back to Hell again, and no longer be present on Sanctuary. This is simple, because, the prime evils were on Sanctuary without Soulstones to begin with. In other words, they only needed to possess a human being because they were imprisoned. Without the soulstones, they have free reign and are in their "true demonic" forms. They don't need a host without being imprisoned in the soulstone.
Oh, wow, that must have just happened. That is kind of weird. They obviously had to do it on purpose. Of course, the soulstone shard is still jammed in to the GIF's hand, but still. I wonder why they did that.
4,000 posts