Alright, I've done my best to search through and find if this specifically has been discussed before and didn't find much about what I'm talking about, though if I've missed it and this is a duplicate thread, I apologize.
Specifically, I just finished MotS and read it very, very closely knowing that chronologically it's the newest information / story we have, the closest to what's going to be happening in D3, and came across a few rather interesting things, though mostly ambiguous, but I think they could lead to some interesting discussion; that all being said, here are some excerpts / thoughts:
(pg. 19)
"Mount Arreat--where legend claimed it had been hidden--had exploded, its entire top ravaged."
Pretty obvious, nothing new here really, just interesting to note; I'm more and more convinced (it seems obvious) it is in fact the Arreat Crater in the D3 cinematic trailer (far beyond where two guards appear to stand watch).
(also pg. 19)
"Now, both the powers of Light and Darkness reached out to fully claim humanity, and in their battles against one another the two cosmic factions threatened to destroy what they desired. Somehow, all that tied into Zayl's own urge to come to Westmarch. Somewhere in this vast kingdom, the repercussions of Baal's heinous deed would soon be felt."
Again, nothing monumental here -- we still don't know exactly what destroying the Worldstone has caused to happen in D3, except that whatever protection it offered Sanctuary before is now completely gone. The implication with the rest of the novel is that Astrogha's return was only possible (not only because of the factors of timing, Karybdus's work, etc) due to the Worldstone no longer existing -- both Heaven and Hell truly do now entirely see Sanctuary, and many forces that may have been unable to manifest may now do so.
(pg. 105)
"There was a foulness to this that disturbed the necromancer, a foulness he felt was tied in part to the destruction of the Worldstone. The dark ones will be stirring, a jungle spirit had told him during a summoning he had made prior to sailing. Even the lost ones..."
More evidence of the previous; I think what we take from this is that no former enemy can be counted out, as who knows what is meant by 'lost'...easily an explanation for Diablo's obvious return, but it also means the rest are fair game...Lillith, Andariel, Duriel, Mephisto, whoever.
More interesting to me was the presence of a unnamed, fiery-winged archangel throughout the latter half or so of the novel that aids Zayl and Salene. Earlier on he takes the form of a well-built man in the garb of a mercenary, and each time he is encountered he reminds them both of someone they dearly trust -- Zayl mistakes the man for Captain Dumon, and a short time later when the man aids Salene, she reminds him of Polth, her dead, trusted guardian. He subtly guides them both on their quests.
While the logic of this being the archangel seems relatively certain, Knaak makes it explicit in the final lines of the novel:
(pg. 321)
"And from across the estate of House Nesardo, a figure that resembled a mercenary with many faces but was so much more watched the necromancer and the woman he had just left."
...
"With that thought, he spread his fiery wings and, unseen by all, took to the sky."
So, it was him, we know for sure.
Another quick excerpt demonstrating the description of the figure, as it came in at the end of the novel to guide Zayl's wendigo to aid Salene in reaching and saving him:
(pg. 285)
"Salene looked at the light...and noticed that framed in it was what appeared to be a glorious figure with a long, shadowed hood and a robe of silver. For just a moment, the startled noblewoman also thought she made out wings of fire..."
It seems very obvious to point to the numerous art and screen captures from the D3 media showing an archangel with distinctly fiery wings -- in one he's towering in the air above another archangel, if you look at the sketchwork (I can link to the artwork in question if anyone has a difficult time seeing it on the D3 website).
This would seem to be a figure important to the post-D2 world -- the obvious question is which archangel is it? It could still be Tyrael if he has undergone some kind of change since destroying the Worldstone, as we know him to not have wings of flame. In his numerous appearances in the Diablo novels, though, Tyrael has always had an obvious presence, either being named as such by the omniscient narrator he even offering his name himself (as he does in Demonsbane, I think elsewhere, too). It just seems what we're witnessing the presence of another archangel, and if it is not Tyrael we're left questioning who it is, and why he's doing the work we'd normally see Tyrael doing.
One more excerpt from early on in the book when an odd occurrence happens -- it isn't stated directly, but it would seem to be when this archangel descends to Sanctuary to aid the humans:
(pgs. 99-100)
"In the dark of the storm, a single light flickered in the sky. Those few who might have seen it likely would have imagined that somehow the clouds had parted just long enough for this one star to shine through. But had they now witnessed it drop toward the ground, they would have instead called it a portent, an omen. In both cases, such onlookers would have been entirely wrong...and entirely correct."
Basically, the light descends down into the city of Westmarch. While it's subtle, I think what this is getting across is that while this archangel's presence in Sanctuary is a positive one directly, it would seem that the need for the direct intervention of Heaven is a sign that Hell has new, equally terrible things in store for Sanctuary, Astrogha's near return being only the first.
Alright, I know that's a lot of info, none of it huge exactly, and parts of this have been discussed elsewhere, but I wanted to offer some direct excerpts to give some concrete groundwork -- I also haven't seen the connection made between the angel in the artwork and the fiery-winged angel present in MotS before.
I've also read into the theory posted on this forum of the fiery-winged archangel possibly being Imperius, seeking to destroy Sanctuary, and it think it's clear this isn't the case -- this angel has already acted in the world of Sanctuary, and every move he made was to the benefit of its people, at least so far.
My thanks to anyone who bothered to read this looooong post, and I welcome any feedback or thoughts on these observations.
Ah yes, very interesting read, thanks. This does put more light on the angel with fiery wings and whether he's an enemy or not. It does seem that he is friendly... though its hard to tell with angels anyway. So many possible alterior motives. And in the years since MotS, this angel could have changed anyway. He could have somehow found a reason to destroy Sanctuary later on. Who knows.. its all too vague.
VAry interesting read. MAkes me want to read Moon of the Spider more. I belive we got alot of lore comming to us in D3
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It's also worth noting that in the final Sin War trilogy book we get descriptions of the Angiris Council (Imperius included), and in physical description and personality not one matches with this unnamed archangel.
That was a very good read. Good theory, there, with good evidence. If this is true, it is interesting to see that this angel has similar goals (although maybe not motives) to Tyrael but chooses to accomplish them more subtle. Perhaps this is why the two are seen in that sketch together- perhaps it's some sort of argument of how something should be done, something important.
For all we know, if this is true, him and Tyrael could have been together in this interest in humanity for a long time.
It somewhat reminds me of the description of the Archangel Mirakodus in the Kingdom of Shadow.
Kentril stared in awe, too. Clad in glorious armor of the brightest platinum, intricate runes and sculptured
glyphs decorating his breast plate, the tall, angelic form glowed as brightly as the sun. One arm held in it a
flaming sword; the other reached out to the onlooker, as if beckoning him to come nearer. From the
archangel?s shoulders radiated a display of crackling, writhing tendrils of pure magical energy that in their
continual frenzy created the illusion of massive, fiery wings.
I just finished Moon of the Spider today. It was an awesome book. I am wondering myself if the angel is in fact Tyrael. Seems like it is but who knows. Perhaps some other angels are now interveining with Sanctuary and helping out the humans. Although it seems to me like its Tyrael because of what the angel was thinking about seeing them again "It would be interesting to see how they fared when next brought together. With that thought, he spread his fiery wings and, unseen by all, took to the sky."
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If you want to arrange it
This world you can change it
If we could somehow make this
Christmas thing last
By helping a neighbor
Or even a stranger
And to know who needs help
You need only just ask
Interesting how you mentioned Astrogha and his possible return! The Mistress of Pain looks very similar to him (at least how he's described), but then, it's a she! And she has a Pain suffix to her title, so she could be very easily connected to Duriel somehow!
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PlugY for Diablo II allows you to reset skills and stats, transfer items between characters in singleplayer, obtain all ladder runewords and do all Uberquests while offline. It is the only way to do all of the above. Please use it.
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I hope we get to meet more angels in Diablo3 and I hope Knaak comes out with a heaven diablo book revealing there secrets
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www.myspace.com/mpotatoes for all your Trans Siberian Orchestra listening pleasure
If you want to arrange it
This world you can change it
If we could somehow make this
Christmas thing last
By helping a neighbor
Or even a stranger
And to know who needs help
You need only just ask
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Alright, I've done my best to search through and find if this specifically has been discussed before and didn't find much about what I'm talking about, though if I've missed it and this is a duplicate thread, I apologize.
Specifically, I just finished MotS and read it very, very closely knowing that chronologically it's the newest information / story we have, the closest to what's going to be happening in D3, and came across a few rather interesting things, though mostly ambiguous, but I think they could lead to some interesting discussion; that all being said, here are some excerpts / thoughts:
(pg. 19)
"Mount Arreat--where legend claimed it had been hidden--had exploded, its entire top ravaged."
Pretty obvious, nothing new here really, just interesting to note; I'm more and more convinced (it seems obvious) it is in fact the Arreat Crater in the D3 cinematic trailer (far beyond where two guards appear to stand watch).
(also pg. 19)
"Now, both the powers of Light and Darkness reached out to fully claim humanity, and in their battles against one another the two cosmic factions threatened to destroy what they desired. Somehow, all that tied into Zayl's own urge to come to Westmarch. Somewhere in this vast kingdom, the repercussions of Baal's heinous deed would soon be felt."
Again, nothing monumental here -- we still don't know exactly what destroying the Worldstone has caused to happen in D3, except that whatever protection it offered Sanctuary before is now completely gone. The implication with the rest of the novel is that Astrogha's return was only possible (not only because of the factors of timing, Karybdus's work, etc) due to the Worldstone no longer existing -- both Heaven and Hell truly do now entirely see Sanctuary, and many forces that may have been unable to manifest may now do so.
(pg. 105)
"There was a foulness to this that disturbed the necromancer, a foulness he felt was tied in part to the destruction of the Worldstone. The dark ones will be stirring, a jungle spirit had told him during a summoning he had made prior to sailing. Even the lost ones..."
More evidence of the previous; I think what we take from this is that no former enemy can be counted out, as who knows what is meant by 'lost'...easily an explanation for Diablo's obvious return, but it also means the rest are fair game...Lillith, Andariel, Duriel, Mephisto, whoever.
More interesting to me was the presence of a unnamed, fiery-winged archangel throughout the latter half or so of the novel that aids Zayl and Salene. Earlier on he takes the form of a well-built man in the garb of a mercenary, and each time he is encountered he reminds them both of someone they dearly trust -- Zayl mistakes the man for Captain Dumon, and a short time later when the man aids Salene, she reminds him of Polth, her dead, trusted guardian. He subtly guides them both on their quests.
While the logic of this being the archangel seems relatively certain, Knaak makes it explicit in the final lines of the novel:
(pg. 321)
"And from across the estate of House Nesardo, a figure that resembled a mercenary with many faces but was so much more watched the necromancer and the woman he had just left."
...
"With that thought, he spread his fiery wings and, unseen by all, took to the sky."
So, it was him, we know for sure.
Another quick excerpt demonstrating the description of the figure, as it came in at the end of the novel to guide Zayl's wendigo to aid Salene in reaching and saving him:
(pg. 285)
"Salene looked at the light...and noticed that framed in it was what appeared to be a glorious figure with a long, shadowed hood and a robe of silver. For just a moment, the startled noblewoman also thought she made out wings of fire..."
It seems very obvious to point to the numerous art and screen captures from the D3 media showing an archangel with distinctly fiery wings -- in one he's towering in the air above another archangel, if you look at the sketchwork (I can link to the artwork in question if anyone has a difficult time seeing it on the D3 website).
This would seem to be a figure important to the post-D2 world -- the obvious question is which archangel is it? It could still be Tyrael if he has undergone some kind of change since destroying the Worldstone, as we know him to not have wings of flame. In his numerous appearances in the Diablo novels, though, Tyrael has always had an obvious presence, either being named as such by the omniscient narrator he even offering his name himself (as he does in Demonsbane, I think elsewhere, too). It just seems what we're witnessing the presence of another archangel, and if it is not Tyrael we're left questioning who it is, and why he's doing the work we'd normally see Tyrael doing.
One more excerpt from early on in the book when an odd occurrence happens -- it isn't stated directly, but it would seem to be when this archangel descends to Sanctuary to aid the humans:
(pgs. 99-100)
"In the dark of the storm, a single light flickered in the sky. Those few who might have seen it likely would have imagined that somehow the clouds had parted just long enough for this one star to shine through. But had they now witnessed it drop toward the ground, they would have instead called it a portent, an omen. In both cases, such onlookers would have been entirely wrong...and entirely correct."
Basically, the light descends down into the city of Westmarch. While it's subtle, I think what this is getting across is that while this archangel's presence in Sanctuary is a positive one directly, it would seem that the need for the direct intervention of Heaven is a sign that Hell has new, equally terrible things in store for Sanctuary, Astrogha's near return being only the first.
Alright, I know that's a lot of info, none of it huge exactly, and parts of this have been discussed elsewhere, but I wanted to offer some direct excerpts to give some concrete groundwork -- I also haven't seen the connection made between the angel in the artwork and the fiery-winged angel present in MotS before.
I've also read into the theory posted on this forum of the fiery-winged archangel possibly being Imperius, seeking to destroy Sanctuary, and it think it's clear this isn't the case -- this angel has already acted in the world of Sanctuary, and every move he made was to the benefit of its people, at least so far.
My thanks to anyone who bothered to read this looooong post, and I welcome any feedback or thoughts on these observations.
If you want to arrange it
This world you can change it
If we could somehow make this
Christmas thing last
By helping a neighbor
Or even a stranger
And to know who needs help
You need only just ask
For all we know, if this is true, him and Tyrael could have been together in this interest in humanity for a long time.
It somewhat reminds me of the description of the Archangel Mirakodus in the Kingdom of Shadow.
Which, wouldn't be a good thing.
:thumbsup:
By theory Archangel Mirakodus is dead or short like?
Althouht I do not doubt anyone is using his face again to fool somebody.
If you want to arrange it
This world you can change it
If we could somehow make this
Christmas thing last
By helping a neighbor
Or even a stranger
And to know who needs help
You need only just ask
The Mistress of Pain is actually Duriel's mother.
That, if you are referring to this thread, is unconfirmed.
Still, I would not call it more than speculation. Supported as it may be with arguments, it's not definitive until actually confirmed by Blizzard.
If you want to arrange it
This world you can change it
If we could somehow make this
Christmas thing last
By helping a neighbor
Or even a stranger
And to know who needs help
You need only just ask