After having two level 60s and watching tons of streams, if they don't plan to have different PvP mechanics for skills or damage reduction, we will see nothing more than 1 shotting pvp
I feel it will be like this...
First CC or First 1 shot crit wins.
We already have demon hunters who can crit for 1 million
Hell my witch doctor with bad gear can crit for almost 400k
Considering average health pools for REALLY GOOD geared players are 50k.. They would have to nerf damage over 75% to avoid 1 shot kills.
Let's not mention my WD can keep something CC'd almost 100% of the time as is. They would have to nerf CC durations at least 75% as well.
Hex, fear, confusion, thats 20 seconds of CC there.. Who can't die in 20 seconds?
I actually think tank characters will do very well in PvP against glass canons. Think of a barb with 75% armor reduction, 75% resistance reduction, 30% base reduction and probably another 10%-15% reduction from items. They actually end up taking about 3-5% of damage. Now factor in that they can be blocking upto 50% and dodge 10%.
Let's not forget leap for 4 seconds and ignore pain for 7.
Ancient spear was pretty much designed for PvP as well.
I'm guessing they'll do their best to anticipate mechanics ahead of time and implement PvP with an eye toward keeping it from being too lopsided.
You can't ever get these things perfect on the first try. Something goofy like Spider Queen will be unpredictably radically overpowered. Everyone will powerlevel a WD right in time for the rune to get nerfed. Rage will abound.
They'll patch and update, and at all costs avoid screwing with how the game plays in a PvE sense for the sake of PvP. Some people will rage. Some people will dance for joy.
Eventually they'll stop tinkering with it, and some folks will play for years and years and get deep down into the theorycrafting meta.
Then when D4 comes out, rage will abound that PvP isn't more like the good old days of D3.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I grew up gaming without internet forums. The entire phenomenon of being upset with a game developer makes no sense to me. No sense. I cannot imagine spending my time and energy being upset about something I choose to do for recreation.
I'd like to see some exact theory crafting numbers on this topic. On the official blizz forums one guy was claiming he could get up to 95% damage reduction on his monk.. but even 95% vs. a DH that can crit for 1 million self buffed.. it's a one shot battle. Either the DH hits first or the monk gets past the first round of CC and hits first.
My first 60 was a witch doctor. Even with bad gear for a level 60 my Haunt does 575% weapon damage over 12 seconds + 288% over 2 seconds. This ONE dot alone will do over 300k damage over the course of its life (without crits or buffs). So no buffs and no crits, I will do 12,500 damage to a 95% reduction player. Then throw on unavoidable damage like Acid Cloud or spirit barrage... insane damage even vs. insanely geared players.
Now you take 3 vs 3 player battles, throw in buffs and everybody elses damage. Were looking at 5 second battles.
Does anybody know of a theory crafting spreadsheet?
Blizzard will give us exactly what they promised: a fun PvP mini-game for people to do beside the main game, which isn't intended to be balanced whatsoever.
Probably best that you get rid of your ideas of balancing now, because Blizzard have already. One shot matches are entirely possible.
What's this talk about 5 second matches? Maybe I'm out of the loop already but didn't blizzard want to do a most kills in X amount of time setup?
Yes, this is what was showed at blizzcon. I am hoping it is very fast paced though. I would love to one shot, or almost one shot people. I can't stand WoW where i can sit on a healer for 30+ minutes and not drop his mana or hp below 50%, it gets a little ridiculous.
Pointless speculation all around. Bliz QC is rather garbage and the same fine people who could not beat Inferno are now trying to bring us an enjoyable PvP experience. Once it is live, there will be countless patches to nerf this and buff that; each change causing a cascading effect. People will be hatin' but I will just be glad that we will be getting VERY regular updates for a non-subscription title because of Bliz' anal-retentiveness / unwillingness to tarnish its reputation.
After having two level 60s and watching tons of streams, if they don't plan to have different PvP mechanics for skills or damage reduction, we will see nothing more than 1 shotting pvp
I feel it will be like this...
First CC or First 1 shot crit wins.
We already have demon hunters who can crit for 1 million
Hell my witch doctor with bad gear can crit for almost 400k
Considering average health pools for REALLY GOOD geared players are 50k.. They would have to nerf damage over 75% to avoid 1 shot kills.
Let's not mention my WD can keep something CC'd almost 100% of the time as is. They would have to nerf CC durations at least 75% as well.
Hex, fear, confusion, thats 20 seconds of CC there.. Who can't die in 20 seconds?
Thoughts?
Luckily, they plan on people obliterating each other over and over in pvp. So yea, you're gonna see a LOT of hunger arrows fired from the other side of the map as soon as the match starts =D And it'l probably be me doing it =P
I'd like to see some exact theory crafting numbers on this topic. On the official blizz forums one guy was claiming he could get up to 95% damage reduction on his monk.. but even 95% vs. a DH that can crit for 1 million self buffed.. it's a one shot battle. Either the DH hits first or the monk gets past the first round of CC and hits first.
My first 60 was a witch doctor. Even with bad gear for a level 60 my Haunt does 575% weapon damage over 12 seconds + 288% over 2 seconds. This ONE dot alone will do over 300k damage over the course of its life (without crits or buffs). So no buffs and no crits, I will do 12,500 damage to a 95% reduction player. Then throw on unavoidable damage like Acid Cloud or spirit barrage... insane damage even vs. insanely geared players.
Now you take 3 vs 3 player battles, throw in buffs and everybody elses damage. Were looking at 5 second battles.
Does anybody know of a theory crafting spreadsheet?
I will say lawl, and smoke screen your haunt. muhahahaha.
Diablo 2 PvP was nothing like that, unless you were extremely poorly geared vs an extremely great geared person.
If anything it depended on character and was 3-6 hits for a kill. Which with everyone flying around and moving at a fast pace was a lot longer then a second. Then again, a lot of people blew ass at D2 PvP so im sure your experience was a 1 shot-fest.
Yes, this is what was showed at blizzcon. I am hoping it is very fast paced though. I would love to one shot, or almost one shot people. I can't stand WoW where i can sit on a healer for 30+ minutes and not drop his mana or hp below 50%, it gets a little ridiculous.
WoW is balanced around at least 3v3 if not 5v5, so if one character could kill a healer on their own the game would be totally broken. You have to work together with your teammates.
Diablo is not that kind of game. It doesn't even have healers for a start.
But I don't think anyone would enjoy a game where PVP consists of:
Player X hits you with ability Y that incapacitates you. You cannot avoid this ability.
Player X hits you with ability Z that does more damage than your HP pool while you are incapacitated. You cannot avoid this ability.
You die.
D2 PvP matches tended to be boring in the extreme for most of it, then remarkably brief once actual contact happened, period. It was like that on lower-level characters, it was like that on 99s. High ladder matches were being won by people who could move fast enough to de-synch themselves from the server in order to get up close unopposed and striking an enemy 2-4 times, usually in under a second. I dearly hope that this is not the case for D3.
Anyway, if you want to test how much damage you will do against a totally undefended target, go smack around Inferno Butcher for a bit. From those numbers, you can run through defense calculations as you will. I suspect that there will be mechanics in place to reduce damage incoming, but they will not need to be too extensive. Most likely it will be a 10-20% boost to all defensive stats for all players against PvP targets.
Armor on every class 50%.
All resistances easily achieved to 50%.
Okey that is without heavy resistance bulking: with heavy resistance building:
75-90% armor
75-90% all resistance
400k would become a very sucky attack against such of resistance pool. Incase you havent realised even mobs in hell hit you for 20-30k if you go naked, thats a lot more than what players deal in one blow in those levels, you get redicilious ammount of damage reduction. The glass-cannon high-dmg builds will be torn apart by tanks as they dont lose much in stats to deal the 6k dmg what it takes to kill them.
And then the defensive cooldowns every class have a lot of those. Diablo pvp was supposed to be fast-paced, players are not meant to take 1000 blows like in WoW.
ps. There is gear that reduces cc duration, and it's likely cc duration on players will be same as cc on rare/elite packs (reduced), also most of the classes ingame have abilitites to break cc.
THis. Also dont forget teammates will buff each other up. As for those "1 mil critical hits" Im not sure I have seen any video of that, i dont think its possible. 1 mil dps is possible but thats a whole other story... dps does not equal damage. And as for those class cannons, for anything they will be the ones getting one shotted.
Still I think if they get the matchmaking system right (supposed to match people based on gear and wins) pvp will be a lot of fun.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Blizzard used to care about releasing Diablo III, then they all took an arrow in the knee...
The biggest issue surrounding the PVP in this game is we don't have many concrete details on whats happening.
The only thing we can be sure of it will be fast and brutal. If its anything like the Blizcon PVP it will be fun though.
As for wether or not we will be one shotted, I think the major issue people need remember is the matchmaking system is looking at your gear as well as your "skill" to match players up "correctly", The people who are insanely geared may not get into matches right away or maybe just fighting the same people over and over again. We don't know. The nice thing that we can assume (well I hope we can) is a fresh 60 stepping into inferno shouldn't be going into a pvp fight with someone who is farming Act 3-4.
Also many people are looking at PvP through the PvM builds. PvP will be using a much different build set for most people me thinks (I am sure there will be cases where this isn't true but only time will tell).
I'm totally looking forward to this...even getting/dishing out one shots every once in awhile. I feel like that will be epic. If it happens all the time it would get "meh" very quickly though. I really don't want it like WoW either....long drawn out matches. Fast paced...epic kills...all the way.
I do hope they keep it close to what was demo'd at Blizzcon. Almost everybody that I know that played it at Blizzcon said it was a lot of fun.
It will be an interesting journey to say the least...
I feel it will be like this...
First CC or First 1 shot crit wins.
We already have demon hunters who can crit for 1 million
Hell my witch doctor with bad gear can crit for almost 400k
Considering average health pools for REALLY GOOD geared players are 50k.. They would have to nerf damage over 75% to avoid 1 shot kills.
Let's not mention my WD can keep something CC'd almost 100% of the time as is. They would have to nerf CC durations at least 75% as well.
Hex, fear, confusion, thats 20 seconds of CC there.. Who can't die in 20 seconds?
Thoughts?
Let's not forget leap for 4 seconds and ignore pain for 7.
Ancient spear was pretty much designed for PvP as well.
You can't ever get these things perfect on the first try. Something goofy like Spider Queen will be unpredictably radically overpowered. Everyone will powerlevel a WD right in time for the rune to get nerfed. Rage will abound.
They'll patch and update, and at all costs avoid screwing with how the game plays in a PvE sense for the sake of PvP. Some people will rage. Some people will dance for joy.
Eventually they'll stop tinkering with it, and some folks will play for years and years and get deep down into the theorycrafting meta.
Then when D4 comes out, rage will abound that PvP isn't more like the good old days of D3.
My first 60 was a witch doctor. Even with bad gear for a level 60 my Haunt does 575% weapon damage over 12 seconds + 288% over 2 seconds. This ONE dot alone will do over 300k damage over the course of its life (without crits or buffs). So no buffs and no crits, I will do 12,500 damage to a 95% reduction player. Then throw on unavoidable damage like Acid Cloud or spirit barrage... insane damage even vs. insanely geared players.
Now you take 3 vs 3 player battles, throw in buffs and everybody elses damage. Were looking at 5 second battles.
Does anybody know of a theory crafting spreadsheet?
Probably best that you get rid of your ideas of balancing now, because Blizzard have already. One shot matches are entirely possible.
Yes, this is what was showed at blizzcon. I am hoping it is very fast paced though. I would love to one shot, or almost one shot people. I can't stand WoW where i can sit on a healer for 30+ minutes and not drop his mana or hp below 50%, it gets a little ridiculous.
Luckily, they plan on people obliterating each other over and over in pvp. So yea, you're gonna see a LOT of hunger arrows fired from the other side of the map as soon as the match starts =D And it'l probably be me doing it =P
I will say lawl, and smoke screen your haunt. muhahahaha.
The return of D2 pvp.
If anything it depended on character and was 3-6 hits for a kill. Which with everyone flying around and moving at a fast pace was a lot longer then a second. Then again, a lot of people blew ass at D2 PvP so im sure your experience was a 1 shot-fest.
WoW is balanced around at least 3v3 if not 5v5, so if one character could kill a healer on their own the game would be totally broken. You have to work together with your teammates.
Diablo is not that kind of game. It doesn't even have healers for a start.
But I don't think anyone would enjoy a game where PVP consists of:
Player X hits you with ability Y that incapacitates you. You cannot avoid this ability.
Player X hits you with ability Z that does more damage than your HP pool while you are incapacitated. You cannot avoid this ability.
You die.
Anyway, if you want to test how much damage you will do against a totally undefended target, go smack around Inferno Butcher for a bit. From those numbers, you can run through defense calculations as you will. I suspect that there will be mechanics in place to reduce damage incoming, but they will not need to be too extensive. Most likely it will be a 10-20% boost to all defensive stats for all players against PvP targets.
THis. Also dont forget teammates will buff each other up. As for those "1 mil critical hits" Im not sure I have seen any video of that, i dont think its possible. 1 mil dps is possible but thats a whole other story... dps does not equal damage. And as for those class cannons, for anything they will be the ones getting one shotted.
Still I think if they get the matchmaking system right (supposed to match people based on gear and wins) pvp will be a lot of fun.
The only thing we can be sure of it will be fast and brutal. If its anything like the Blizcon PVP it will be fun though.
As for wether or not we will be one shotted, I think the major issue people need remember is the matchmaking system is looking at your gear as well as your "skill" to match players up "correctly", The people who are insanely geared may not get into matches right away or maybe just fighting the same people over and over again. We don't know. The nice thing that we can assume (well I hope we can) is a fresh 60 stepping into inferno shouldn't be going into a pvp fight with someone who is farming Act 3-4.
Also many people are looking at PvP through the PvM builds. PvP will be using a much different build set for most people me thinks (I am sure there will be cases where this isn't true but only time will tell).
I do hope they keep it close to what was demo'd at Blizzcon. Almost everybody that I know that played it at Blizzcon said it was a lot of fun.
It will be an interesting journey to say the least...
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