Actually he called you PvM fanboy, because you come to PvP forum and your most used argument is "the game is focused on PvE". If you get insulted by that, I seriously don't know what are you doing online.
I'm not even gonna comment on the other parts, since I already did at least once before.
Ah, I guess I had misread that. However, the intent is the same...he was using a label like that specifically as a derogatory remark. It was used in a negative manner and as such an insult. As for my argument, its actually a very valid argument. Considering Blizzard themselves stated that the primary focus of the game is co~op play, I'd say its a strong argument at that.
Its funny how you guys keep labeling me as a PvM only player when I have clearly stated MULTIPLE times now that I actually have a great interest in the PvP system of Diablo 3. I'm really looking forward to Arena. So somehow, because I suppose the path that Blizzard has taken for the game, I don't deserve to comment about PvP issues? I'm sorry, I want the game to stay a fun and positive environment for the community...that's a bad thing?
ecutruin: You agree with blizzards stance and blizzard disagrees with the hardcore PvP playerbase, blizzard in turn gets alot of crap for it and you cant expect hardcore PvPers take another stance aginst those who agree with them. They want PvE and casual meaningless PvP. Hardcore PvPers wants PvE and AWSOME endgame PvP to focus on when we got the gear we want. Casual PvP just wont do, it will be meaningless to ALOT of hardcore PvPers, being unable to progress in some way is not rewarding, exciting, fun or positive in any way. Casual PvP will become extremely boring and alot of players will quit when they have nothing else left to do. When you've farmed inferno, perfected your gear, played alittle TDM, what then? You have NOTHING of value to gain within PvP after that. I hardly doubt people will play the game forever just to keep farming. Also, the team that loses gains ranking anyway, not just as much as the winner. What kinda stupid system is that? Rewarding the losing team? Even if they try to create this "casual" PvP, people will still think competetively, but will eventually get insanely bored for not being rewarded except gaining some new banners and achievements. Wohoo.. thats what i want. A banner and an achievement i will stare at for years. People will certainly look at it to! Not. I can use the freakin' custom banner for years to come, who gives a crap? There is no status shown with a banner. A player with a high rank, thats a status and gives braging rights. Blizzard wants you to PvP for fun. Fun in their eyes is just killing other players, nothing more. That will stop being fun, pretty quickly to. The way i see it, they have made an arena with TDM mode so far, all the rewards you can get isnt even rewards imo, i couldnt care less if i got a new banner or an achievement. As there is no penalty at all, players can watch a movie and just stand still in the arena, still getting rewarded for their awsome absence. Sure, it might be fun for a little while but, eventually pretty quickly you'll get bored and realize that there is nothing to improve and you have no goal to climb towards. And yes, there were rules within PvP in D2. Yes, it was pretty balanced with the rules used, ganking low levels is nothing a hardcore player does unless they're high or drunk and yes there were goals, becoming known as a good PvPer, some even arranged private tournaments with different prices. All D2 lacked was good systems to help making the PvP better. They lacked the technology we have today.
Gryzorz: PvP is competetive by nature and have always been. It's like saying pro football players isnt competetive at all. They need to be in order to have the motivation to play. If you're not competetive as a pro football player then there is not even the slightest feeling of happiness or sadness in winning or losing because it wouldnt matter if you werent competetive.
I read about half of this wall, but what I did read I agree on.
All we need is the private arena, where we can change teams after a match and we can have everything we had in Diablo 2 high end PvP. The community will take charge again and make rules and balances, and private ladders will form and that is all a high end PvP'er in Diablo needs or wants.
Bottom line, we want the option to do what we could before for PvP, not esports, not gank low levels, but the ability to craft our community into something great. The public arena is not that mechanic, and it never will be. Put the power in Blizzards hands when they don't give a shit and it will ruin a part of the community.
All we need is the private arena, where we can change teams after a match and we can have everything we had in Diablo 2 high end PvP. The community will take charge again and make rules and balances, and private ladders will form and that is all a high end PvP'er in Diablo needs or wants.
Agreed - and I don't think that would hurt the PvE as long as there are people ready to bounce any complaints back based on what Blizzard stated during all these years whenever they surface on the forums.
Bottom line, we want the option to do what we could before for PvP, not esports, not gank low levels, but the ability to craft our community into something great.
I am positive they're seriously considering allowing private arenas, but they're not sure how things will turn out, so that might scare them away from the idea (they can't properly test it, and once it's out there there's no turning back and taking it away from the game). I'm 100% in favor of this, tbh.
This is the most beaten to death, pointless, misunderstood discussion on Diablo 3. Nobody seems to understand the core truths behind the issue.
1. PvP in Diablo 1 and 2 was never balanced, or even supported beyond a basic system.
The competitive Diablo 2 community itself creates this illusion. There are legitimate 1v1 ladders and tournaments run on community forums. But the balance in these tournaments comes from the rules of these tournaments created by the community which exclude certain abilities and items from play. Diablo 2 is hardly balanced by Blizzard in any sense. Even the setting that PvP occurs in is contrived by the community: dueling outside of Act 1. There's no designated PvP area in the game. The PvP wasn't designed to be competitive, it was designed to add interest by allowing players to kill eachother in the world.
2. Diablo 3 will be supporting PvP to a further extent than it ever was supported in any of the previous games. Blizzard aknowledges that there is a large community of players that will want to PvP, so they are creating a legitimate system for them to do so. I have no doubt that there will be an option to duel other players, as there is so much pressure from the community to have that option, and it would in no way upset the gameplay, as long as players understand that Blizzard isn't willing to disrupt the PvE gameplay to balance 1v1. That said you will be able to compete in 1v1 ladders created by communities with community guidelines and rules to just as much an extent as you could in Diablo 2.
The Diablo franchise has always been, and will be in the newest release, a coop-based pve game. For everyone who PvP'd in the previous games, the only thing you won't have is the ability to grief other players. Everything else will be virtually the same.On top of that you will have the added benefit of an in-game arena that adds another option for PvP gameplay.
ecutruin: You agree with blizzards stance and blizzard disagrees with the hardcore PvP playerbase, blizzard in turn gets alot of crap for it and you cant expect hardcore PvPers take another stance aginst those who agree with them. They want PvE and casual meaningless PvP. Hardcore PvPers wants PvE and AWSOME endgame PvP to focus on when we got the gear we want. Casual PvP just wont do, it will be meaningless to ALOT of hardcore PvPers, being unable to progress in some way is not rewarding, exciting, fun or positive in any way. Casual PvP will become extremely boring and alot of players will quit when they have nothing else left to do. When you've farmed inferno, perfected your gear, played alittle TDM, what then? You have NOTHING of value to gain within PvP after that. I hardly doubt people will play the game forever just to keep farming. Also, the team that loses gains ranking anyway, not just as much as the winner. What kinda stupid system is that? Rewarding the losing team? Even if they try to create this "casual" PvP, people will still think competetively, but will eventually get insanely bored for not being rewarded except gaining some new banners and achievements. Wohoo.. thats what i want. A banner and an achievement i will stare at for years. People will certainly look at it to! Not. I can use the freakin' custom banner for years to come, who gives a crap? There is no status shown with a banner. A player with a high rank, thats a status and gives braging rights. Blizzard wants you to PvP for fun. Fun in their eyes is just killing other players, nothing more. That will stop being fun, pretty quickly to. The way i see it, they have made an arena with TDM mode so far, all the rewards you can get isnt even rewards imo, i couldnt care less if i got a new banner or an achievement. As there is no penalty at all, players can watch a movie and just stand still in the arena, still getting rewarded for their awsome absence. Sure, it might be fun for a little while but, eventually pretty quickly you'll get bored and realize that there is nothing to improve and you have no goal to climb towards. And yes, there were rules within PvP in D2. Yes, it was pretty balanced with the rules used, ganking low levels is nothing a hardcore player does unless they're high or drunk and yes there were goals, becoming known as a good PvPer, some even arranged private tournaments with different prices. All D2 lacked was good systems to help making the PvP better. They lacked the technology we have today.
Gryzorz: PvP is competetive by nature and have always been. It's like saying pro football players isnt competetive at all. They need to be in order to have the motivation to play. If you're not competetive as a pro football player then there is not even the slightest feeling of happiness or sadness in winning or losing because it wouldnt matter if you werent competetive.
If you honestly want to reply to me, please actually break up your walls of text.
Gryzorz put it very well with his football analogy (+1). Just because it is PvP doesn't mean it needs to be a highly competitive environment. Instead, a PvP game can be designed in such a way that it rewards everyone that plays and everyone has fun. It doesn't need bragging rights, ranking, or any of that. I hope Blizzard achieves such a goal.
Diablo 3 is not intended to be a pvp game. Nor were it's predecessors. The Diablo series is and will be a co-op oriented game. Why try so hard to change the intentions of an already great game series? Skyrim is a very good single-player game. There are many great pvp games out there. Do people go into the forums of the pvp-based games and whine and cry that they should cater to the whims of those that don't like pvp? No, they just play the games that offer the type of play that they enjoy.
It's like enjoying mud riding in a 4x4 then complaining that the new sports car isn't good enough off road for your tastes. Different vehicles are made for different purposes. The same goes for video games. Drive what you like.
The lead developer said, in no uncertain terms, that Diablo 3 is not meant to be, nor will it ever be a competitive pvp game. Why is that so hard to wrap your minds around?
The lead developer said, in no uncertain terms, that Diablo 3 is not meant to be, nor will it ever be a competitive pvp game. Why is that so hard to wrap your minds around?
People don't understand why they can't do both. The reason they can't do both is because they don't want to balance the game around PvP, which is inevitable if you create a competetive PvP system. Just take WoW for example: offering both PvP and PvE balance has been a nightmare for developers, and it takes its toll on both of those systems.
That said, nobody seems to understand: PvP Was Not Balanced By Blizzard In Diablo 2 AT ALL
The balance came from the players, just read this thread on d2jsp: http://forums.d2jsp....=54454490&f=147 There are set rules that prevent you from using certain items and abilities, thats how it is balanced.
(Edit) You will easily be able to partake in this kind of competetive environment in Diablo 3. Though I have no evidence to support this claim, I think(hope) there is enough demand for 1v1 duels that Blizzard will implement them in the PvP patch.
All of you who just want the old FFA outside of act 1 back, I think you will probably find that Blizzard creates a new way to for more casual PvP to be just as fun and interesting.
(Edit) You will easily be able to partake in this kind of competetive environment in Diablo 3. Though I have no evidence to support this claim, I think(hope) there is enough demand for 1v1 duels that Blizzard will implement them in the PvP patch.
Unless you've heard something I haven't, there is nothing to support that you will. What they said is that they may end up with custom PvP matches if they pass their review process for the PvP patch. However, they also went on to say that the effect such feature have on the community may be a good reason NOT to add such features. So, there is an equal change we will or will not get features required for such competitive environment.
Personally, I hope we don't. Primarily due to the reactions I've seen from the competitive players here. I'd rather not encourage such behavior at all.
So, there is an equal chance we will or will not get features required for such competitive environment.
Personally, I hope we don't. Primarily due to the reactions I've seen from the competitive players here. I'd rather not encourage such behavior at all.
You know I agree that I had overlooked this to some extent. However I have seen hints of perhaps a dueling option, maybe not a custom arena option.
What they should do, and what I hope they will do, is create a system that allows competitive play, yet make it esoteric enough that most players wont know about it, or will be discouraged from partaking. This creates a controlled environment for competitors, who will come to understand that should they wish to compete they will have to deal with imperfect balance themselves, without creating a system that 'feels broken' to your average player without constant balancing. This negates a lot of potential frustration some players might have, while still providing the option to others.
This is kind of a complicated concept, and perhaps it contradicts some of Blizzards core game design philosophy. The tricky thing here is that Blizzard is very sensitive to creating game systems they can't properly support. This literally sums up the issue with PvP in D3.
That said, I think dueling would be a valid option (essentially the equivalent of /duel in WoW). Players could easily recognize that it's not meant as a game system with incredible depth. To accentuate this they could frame it as almost an easter egg, with no obvious interface button or what have you. However, people who want to participate in competitive PvP could still use this system and add their own depth and balance to it through community forums with rules and guidelines.
So, there is an equal chance we will or will not get features required for such competitive environment.
Personally, I hope we don't. Primarily due to the reactions I've seen from the competitive players here. I'd rather not encourage such behavior at all.
You know I agree that I had overlooked this to some extent. However I have seen hints of perhaps a dueling option, maybe not a custom arena option.
What they should do, and what I hope they will do, is create a system that allows competitive play, yet make it esoteric enough that most players wont know about it, or will be discouraged from partaking. This creates a controlled environment for competitors, who will come to understand that should they wish to compete they will have to deal with imperfect balance themselves, without creating a system that 'feels broken' to your average player without constant balancing. This negates a lot of potential frustration some players might have, while still providing the option to others.
This is kind of a complicated concept, and perhaps it contradicts some of Blizzards core game design philosophy. The tricky thing here is that Blizzard is very sensitive to creating game systems they can't properly support. This literally sums up the issue with PvP in D3.
That said, I think dueling would be a valid option (essentially the equivalent of /duel in WoW). Players could easily recognize that it's not meant as a game system with incredible depth. To accentuate this they could frame it as almost an easter egg, with no obvious interface button or what have you. However, people who want to participate in competitive PvP could still use this system and add their own depth and balance to it through community forums with rules and guidelines.
What I feel they should do.. is what they ARE doing. Focusing the game away from highly competitive gameplay. Keeping the PvP aspect of the game a more casual Arena mode meant to be played for fun and not prizes. It means that losing doesn't matter, and balance doesn't need to be perfect.
Since this is the route they are already going, seems a good idea for them to stick the course.
So, there is an equal chance we will or will not get features required for such competitive environment.
Personally, I hope we don't. Primarily due to the reactions I've seen from the competitive players here. I'd rather not encourage such behavior at all.
You know I agree that I had overlooked this to some extent. However I have seen hints of perhaps a dueling option, maybe not a custom arena option.
What they should do, and what I hope they will do, is create a system that allows competitive play, yet make it esoteric enough that most players wont know about it, or will be discouraged from partaking. This creates a controlled environment for competitors, who will come to understand that should they wish to compete they will have to deal with imperfect balance themselves, without creating a system that 'feels broken' to your average player without constant balancing. This negates a lot of potential frustration some players might have, while still providing the option to others.
This is kind of a complicated concept, and perhaps it contradicts some of Blizzards core game design philosophy. The tricky thing here is that Blizzard is very sensitive to creating game systems they can't properly support. This literally sums up the issue with PvP in D3.
That said, I think dueling would be a valid option (essentially the equivalent of /duel in WoW). Players could easily recognize that it's not meant as a game system with incredible depth. To accentuate this they could frame it as almost an easter egg, with no obvious interface button or what have you. However, people who want to participate in competitive PvP could still use this system and add their own depth and balance to it through community forums with rules and guidelines.
What I feel they should do.. is what they ARE doing. Focusing the game away from highly competitive gameplay. Keeping the PvP aspect of the game a more casual Arena mode meant to be played for fun and not prizes. It means that losing doesn't matter, and balance doesn't need to be perfect.
Since this is the route they are already going, seems a good idea for them to stick the course.
Still in the delusional world where the arena is casual eh? Losses don't matter...ha...good one.
Still in the delusional world where the arena is casual eh? Losses don't matter...ha...good one.
Still complaining that the game isn't Diablo 2?
Seriously, Diablo 3 is a new game guys. Blizzard stated early on that their goal was not to have a competitive PvP environment. Why is it even a complaint? Its like people complaining that the next Pokemon game isn't a FPS because they want it to be one. Why do you feel entitled to have it your way? Why am I wrong for wanting it the way Blizzard actually said they want it to be?
Still in the delusional world where the arena is casual eh? Losses don't matter...ha...good one.
Still complaining that the game isn't Diablo 2?
Seriously, Diablo 3 is a new game guys. Blizzard stated early on that their goal was not to have a competitive PvP environment. Why is it even a complaint? Its like people complaining that the next Pokemon game isn't a FPS because they want it to be one. Why do you feel entitled to have it your way? Why am I wrong for wanting it the way Blizzard actually said they want it to be?
Nope, could care less how close it is to D2. D2 wasn't very close to D1 and I still got around to liking it. Then again, they both supported my style of gameplay, so will see with this one. Either way it is what it is, if it sucks to me I move on, if it is fun then great. No point crying over it in every thread like some people do.
Also to some people they played Diablo to PvM gear and then to PvP with that gear. They also got involved in the wonderful world of player structured PvP, which should be represented in Diablo 3. So little different then taking pokemon RPG genre to a FPS. Since Diablo is and well should be predominantly PvM based, it should also keep it roots of allowing the community to craft itself and let us have the PvP experience we want, not something that is contrived and well weaker in appearance in every way.
Yes you have match making! Wow....great..who cares about that again? Oh but you have hidden rankings that match up....yea, those work great in SC, and well im sure there will be no problems here either ha. Oh wait..you have....casual matches all the time where nothing matters...yea cause that makes sense, im sure it will work just like that. Where is your fantasy world at anyway, I would love to take a trip there.
Nope, could care less how close it is to D2. D2 wasn't very close to D1 and I still got around to liking it. Then again, they both supported my style of gameplay, so will see with this one. Either way it is what it is, if it sucks to me I move on, if it is fun then great. No point crying over it in every thread like some people do.
You say this, but then complain below about how it isn't what you want it to be...
Also to some people they played Diablo to PvM gear and then to PvP with that gear. They also got involved in the wonderful world of player structured PvP, which should be represented in Diablo 3. So little different then taking pokemon RPG genre to a FPS. Since Diablo is and well should be predominantly PvM based, it should also keep it roots of allowing the community to craft itself and let us have the PvP experience we want, not something that is contrived and well weaker in appearance in every way.
Structured PvP... like Arena's?...you know matchmaking, stable rules, etc?
I love how you continue to bash Blizzard's approach to PvP, stating its weaker or contrived when the reality is that it will actually be better for the majority of players. The new system will allow people to jump right into PvP and be matched up against someone of near equal skill/gear. You won't be required to find a forum, sign up, agree to some established rule system, etc..just to get rolling. You won't have to worry about people not following the rules.
In all honesty, Blizzard's system is a lot better then previous...it's just not what YOU want. That doesn't make it a bad system...it just makes it one you don't like.
Yes you have match making! Wow....great..who cares about that again? Oh but you have hidden rankings that match up....yea, those work great in SC, and well im sure there will be no problems here either ha. Oh wait..you have....casual matches all the time where nothing matters...yea cause that makes sense, im sure it will work just like that. Where is your fantasy world at anyway, I would love to take a trip there.
Yes, casual matches where the goal of playing is to have fun smashing other players in PvP. After all, playing a game for entertainment is a horrible thing that is worthless. What do you possibly get out of a PvP system with visible ranking? Bragging rights? Seriously, there isn't a benefit there...it really just gives people a reason to flaunt their ego and put other people down. I think I'll stick to playing for enjoyment and entertainment.
There is nothing more to say in this discussion that hasn't already been said. There is no good that will come from continuing to discuss this issue to death.
Different people value different things when it comes to games. Some people prefer PvE, some PvP. Blizzard has stated they are focusing on making diablo 3 a co-op PvE game on a fundamental level and have made design decesions based on that direction. If you don't like that, then I'm sorry. If you do like that, then awesome.
There is nothing more to say in this discussion that hasn't already been said. There is no good that will come from continuing to discuss this issue to death.
Different people value different things when it comes to games. Some people prefer PvE, some PvP. Blizzard has stated they are focusing on making diablo 3 a co-op PvE game on a fundamental level and have made design decesions based on that direction. If you don't like that, then I'm sorry. If you do like that, then awesome.
This.
End of discussion.
But, unfortunately, probably not this.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
...and if you disagree with me, you're probably <insert random ad hominem attack here>.
The PvP players that want hostility back are the douches that just went around killing people that weren't PvP geared. They probably weren't either so now that they actually have to farm and play against people that actually want to PvP they are most likely fuming... But on the other hand the new douches in D3 will be those people that don't gear for PvP on purpose to make their team lose...
Diablo 3 is not intended to be a pvp game. Nor were it's predecessors. The Diablo series is and will be a co-op oriented game. Why try so hard to change the intentions of an already great game series? Skyrim is a very good single-player game. There are many great pvp games out there. Do people go into the forums of the pvp-based games and whine and cry that they should cater to the whims of those that don't like pvp? No, they just play the games that offer the type of play that they enjoy.
There are noobs and retards that cannot beat AI in SC (or SC2), doesn't make those PVE games.
There are probably a lot of noobs and retards that cannot beat insane AI in SC2, therefor finding higher level of the PVE aspects challenging and enjoyable to play, and that population is probably pretty big... Still doesn't make SC2 a PVE game.
There are noobs and retards that cannot beat AI in SC (or SC2), doesn't make those PVE games.
There are probably a lot of noobs and retards that cannot beat insane AI in SC2, therefor finding higher level of the PVE aspects challenging and enjoyable to play, and that population is probably pretty big... Still doesn't make SC2 a PVE game.
Wow, you choose to use insults and derogatory comments to make a point? I'm sorry, but you really show exactly why many don't want a competitive community in Diablo 3. I really hope Blizzard sticks to their guns.
Your analogy doesn't make any sense either, because SCII isn't meant to be a PvM game. It was designed as a competitive game. Diablo 3 is designed as a PvM game focusing around co~op play, with an added casual PvP component. Big difference there.
Ah, I guess I had misread that. However, the intent is the same...he was using a label like that specifically as a derogatory remark. It was used in a negative manner and as such an insult. As for my argument, its actually a very valid argument. Considering Blizzard themselves stated that the primary focus of the game is co~op play, I'd say its a strong argument at that.
Its funny how you guys keep labeling me as a PvM only player when I have clearly stated MULTIPLE times now that I actually have a great interest in the PvP system of Diablo 3. I'm really looking forward to Arena. So somehow, because I suppose the path that Blizzard has taken for the game, I don't deserve to comment about PvP issues? I'm sorry, I want the game to stay a fun and positive environment for the community...that's a bad thing?
All we need is the private arena, where we can change teams after a match and we can have everything we had in Diablo 2 high end PvP. The community will take charge again and make rules and balances, and private ladders will form and that is all a high end PvP'er in Diablo needs or wants.
Bottom line, we want the option to do what we could before for PvP, not esports, not gank low levels, but the ability to craft our community into something great. The public arena is not that mechanic, and it never will be. Put the power in Blizzards hands when they don't give a shit and it will ruin a part of the community.
I am positive they're seriously considering allowing private arenas, but they're not sure how things will turn out, so that might scare them away from the idea (they can't properly test it, and once it's out there there's no turning back and taking it away from the game). I'm 100% in favor of this, tbh.
1. PvP in Diablo 1 and 2 was never balanced, or even supported beyond a basic system.
The competitive Diablo 2 community itself creates this illusion. There are legitimate 1v1 ladders and tournaments run on community forums. But the balance in these tournaments comes from the rules of these tournaments created by the community which exclude certain abilities and items from play. Diablo 2 is hardly balanced by Blizzard in any sense. Even the setting that PvP occurs in is contrived by the community: dueling outside of Act 1. There's no designated PvP area in the game. The PvP wasn't designed to be competitive, it was designed to add interest by allowing players to kill eachother in the world.
2. Diablo 3 will be supporting PvP to a further extent than it ever was supported in any of the previous games. Blizzard aknowledges that there is a large community of players that will want to PvP, so they are creating a legitimate system for them to do so. I have no doubt that there will be an option to duel other players, as there is so much pressure from the community to have that option, and it would in no way upset the gameplay, as long as players understand that Blizzard isn't willing to disrupt the PvE gameplay to balance 1v1. That said you will be able to compete in 1v1 ladders created by communities with community guidelines and rules to just as much an extent as you could in Diablo 2.
The Diablo franchise has always been, and will be in the newest release, a coop-based pve game. For everyone who PvP'd in the previous games, the only thing you won't have is the ability to grief other players. Everything else will be virtually the same. On top of that you will have the added benefit of an in-game arena that adds another option for PvP gameplay.
If you honestly want to reply to me, please actually break up your walls of text.
Gryzorz put it very well with his football analogy (+1). Just because it is PvP doesn't mean it needs to be a highly competitive environment. Instead, a PvP game can be designed in such a way that it rewards everyone that plays and everyone has fun. It doesn't need bragging rights, ranking, or any of that. I hope Blizzard achieves such a goal.
It's like enjoying mud riding in a 4x4 then complaining that the new sports car isn't good enough off road for your tastes. Different vehicles are made for different purposes. The same goes for video games. Drive what you like.
The lead developer said, in no uncertain terms, that Diablo 3 is not meant to be, nor will it ever be a competitive pvp game. Why is that so hard to wrap your minds around?
People don't understand why they can't do both. The reason they can't do both is because they don't want to balance the game around PvP, which is inevitable if you create a competetive PvP system. Just take WoW for example: offering both PvP and PvE balance has been a nightmare for developers, and it takes its toll on both of those systems.
That said, nobody seems to understand: PvP Was Not Balanced By Blizzard In Diablo 2 AT ALL
The balance came from the players, just read this thread on d2jsp: http://forums.d2jsp....=54454490&f=147 There are set rules that prevent you from using certain items and abilities, thats how it is balanced.
(Edit) You will easily be able to partake in this kind of competetive environment in Diablo 3. Though I have no evidence to support this claim, I think(hope) there is enough demand for 1v1 duels that Blizzard will implement them in the PvP patch.
All of you who just want the old FFA outside of act 1 back, I think you will probably find that Blizzard creates a new way to for more casual PvP to be just as fun and interesting.
Unless you've heard something I haven't, there is nothing to support that you will. What they said is that they may end up with custom PvP matches if they pass their review process for the PvP patch. However, they also went on to say that the effect such feature have on the community may be a good reason NOT to add such features. So, there is an equal change we will or will not get features required for such competitive environment.
Personally, I hope we don't. Primarily due to the reactions I've seen from the competitive players here. I'd rather not encourage such behavior at all.
You know I agree that I had overlooked this to some extent. However I have seen hints of perhaps a dueling option, maybe not a custom arena option.
What they should do, and what I hope they will do, is create a system that allows competitive play, yet make it esoteric enough that most players wont know about it, or will be discouraged from partaking. This creates a controlled environment for competitors, who will come to understand that should they wish to compete they will have to deal with imperfect balance themselves, without creating a system that 'feels broken' to your average player without constant balancing. This negates a lot of potential frustration some players might have, while still providing the option to others.
This is kind of a complicated concept, and perhaps it contradicts some of Blizzards core game design philosophy. The tricky thing here is that Blizzard is very sensitive to creating game systems they can't properly support. This literally sums up the issue with PvP in D3.
That said, I think dueling would be a valid option (essentially the equivalent of /duel in WoW). Players could easily recognize that it's not meant as a game system with incredible depth. To accentuate this they could frame it as almost an easter egg, with no obvious interface button or what have you. However, people who want to participate in competitive PvP could still use this system and add their own depth and balance to it through community forums with rules and guidelines.
What I feel they should do.. is what they ARE doing. Focusing the game away from highly competitive gameplay. Keeping the PvP aspect of the game a more casual Arena mode meant to be played for fun and not prizes. It means that losing doesn't matter, and balance doesn't need to be perfect.
Since this is the route they are already going, seems a good idea for them to stick the course.
Still complaining that the game isn't Diablo 2?
Seriously, Diablo 3 is a new game guys. Blizzard stated early on that their goal was not to have a competitive PvP environment. Why is it even a complaint? Its like people complaining that the next Pokemon game isn't a FPS because they want it to be one. Why do you feel entitled to have it your way? Why am I wrong for wanting it the way Blizzard actually said they want it to be?
Also to some people they played Diablo to PvM gear and then to PvP with that gear. They also got involved in the wonderful world of player structured PvP, which should be represented in Diablo 3. So little different then taking pokemon RPG genre to a FPS. Since Diablo is and well should be predominantly PvM based, it should also keep it roots of allowing the community to craft itself and let us have the PvP experience we want, not something that is contrived and well weaker in appearance in every way.
Yes you have match making! Wow....great..who cares about that again? Oh but you have hidden rankings that match up....yea, those work great in SC, and well im sure there will be no problems here either ha. Oh wait..you have....casual matches all the time where nothing matters...yea cause that makes sense, im sure it will work just like that. Where is your fantasy world at anyway, I would love to take a trip there.
You say this, but then complain below about how it isn't what you want it to be...
Structured PvP... like Arena's?...you know matchmaking, stable rules, etc?
I love how you continue to bash Blizzard's approach to PvP, stating its weaker or contrived when the reality is that it will actually be better for the majority of players. The new system will allow people to jump right into PvP and be matched up against someone of near equal skill/gear. You won't be required to find a forum, sign up, agree to some established rule system, etc..just to get rolling. You won't have to worry about people not following the rules.
In all honesty, Blizzard's system is a lot better then previous...it's just not what YOU want. That doesn't make it a bad system...it just makes it one you don't like.
Yes, casual matches where the goal of playing is to have fun smashing other players in PvP. After all, playing a game for entertainment is a horrible thing that is worthless. What do you possibly get out of a PvP system with visible ranking? Bragging rights? Seriously, there isn't a benefit there...it really just gives people a reason to flaunt their ego and put other people down. I think I'll stick to playing for enjoyment and entertainment.
Different people value different things when it comes to games. Some people prefer PvE, some PvP. Blizzard has stated they are focusing on making diablo 3 a co-op PvE game on a fundamental level and have made design decesions based on that direction. If you don't like that, then I'm sorry. If you do like that, then awesome.
End of discussion.
This.
But, unfortunately, probably not this.
There are noobs and retards that cannot beat AI in SC (or SC2), doesn't make those PVE games.
There are probably a lot of noobs and retards that cannot beat insane AI in SC2, therefor finding higher level of the PVE aspects challenging and enjoyable to play, and that population is probably pretty big... Still doesn't make SC2 a PVE game.
-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8CBbeSAjVo
-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hI4peeO3yzY
LOL -http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcJ_XT3oWtY
Wow, you choose to use insults and derogatory comments to make a point? I'm sorry, but you really show exactly why many don't want a competitive community in Diablo 3. I really hope Blizzard sticks to their guns.
Your analogy doesn't make any sense either, because SCII isn't meant to be a PvM game. It was designed as a competitive game. Diablo 3 is designed as a PvM game focusing around co~op play, with an added casual PvP component. Big difference there.