If you ask me I'd include world PvP. Fighting groups of players who have to get to a certain point and capture/kill an objective. You'd have a huge map at your disposal, like the marshes from Act 3 of D2.
I agree, they should at least make it a long term goal to eventually balance pvp, and then make it competitive.
Two reasons. 1. even if every class had one or two pvp builds that were balanced, and then the other builds were clearly for pvm, then it would be enough to make a balanced pvp game. 2. To take an idea from the diablo casts, just set people up with standard gear that must be used in the ranked arena, or several choices of gear that are balanced. Say for ranked pvp, you must pick among several chest pieces, helms, etc that are pre-approved and balanced. This would eliminate the problem Jay seems to think would arise from RMAH AND ranked pvp. People can still buy awesome gear for unranked pvp and for pvm, but in ranked, its all about sheer skill.
Again, I know its not their priority to balance pvp, especially with this 2011 release date, and I as much as anyone want the game sooner than later, but this could be a longer term goal for them. They may be scared to try and balance it now, but c'mon blizz, I know you guys can balance it eventually.
If you ask me I'd include world PvP. Fighting groups of players who have to get to a certain point and capture/kill an objective. You'd have a huge map at your disposal, like the marshes from Act 3 of D2.
Arena is just too boring and predictable.
This idea sounds ridiculously fun.
Content racing, objective based PvP, arena (all formats), hoard mode, "winner takes all" duels (team and solo), and so much more could make this game absolutely incredible and give it infinite replay value. Too bad it probably won't be given any development focus whatsoever because of some absolutist ideology that diablo must be a 100% pve game.
Not 99%, not 95%, ONE HUNDRED PERCENT.
Insane.
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To Jay Wilson and everyone else: Diablo 3 can be competitive without being an E-Sport.
Too bad it probably won't be given any development focus whatsoever because of some absolutist ideology that diablo must be a 100% pve game.
Having an arena PvP mode and an actual matchmaker might not be the fully featured PvP that many, including me, would like, but saying it is 0% is a bit of a stretch, isn't?
I'd say it's more 80% PvE and 20% PvP.
The problem of developing all those modes is exactly that. They take precious development time. They won't just put it in the game and go "screw it, we won't even discuss the feature, just add a horde mode with random monsters", if they're going to add something, it has to be nearly perfect. That's their developer's philosophy, not an absolutist ideology, and it has worked pretty well until today.
Having an arena PvP mode and an actual matchmaker might not be the fully featured PvP that many, including me, would like, but saying it is 0% is a bit of a stretch, isn't?
I'd say it's more 80% PvE and 20% PvP.
The problem of developing all those modes is exactly that. They take precious development time. They won't just put it in the game and go "screw it, we won't even discuss the feature, just add a horde mode with random monsters", if they're going to add something, it has to be nearly perfect. That's their developer's philosophy, not an absolutist ideology, and it has worked pretty well until today.
That was a little hyperbole to illustrate my point. But if you think one map and hidden ranking system took 20% of the development time compared to the rest of the PvM game you're delusional.
I'd say it's about 3% PvP and 97% PvE in terms of hours spent developing. I would be perfectly happy with 80/20, but if that were the case we'd have some amazing competitive formats to look forward to in Diablo 3.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To Jay Wilson and everyone else: Diablo 3 can be competitive without being an E-Sport.
If D3 is going to be about pvm, inferno mode damn well better be interesting/challenging with many variables/tough situations and not designed so the average group of players can complete it. That would make it very enjoyable....
But seriously, at the same time, it's true that having an awesome PVE exameperience does not in any way justify making the pvp experience worse. As for preventing E-Sports.... There are past attempts at companies making their games to prevent competition. The best example I can think of is super smash bros. Smash Bros Melee for the Game cube (2001) was, and still is, a hugely popular tournament game that gives out thousands of dollars in prize money and gathers people from all over the world to compete. It's an insanely hardcore and community based game. Smash Bros Brawl (2008) was made with the sole intention of being for casual players and shitting on the competitive community. It added random elements to the game to even advert competitive players from wanting to play. Despite that, the game is still a competitive game with tournaments and everything, though at the same time it's a much worse game because of the companies intentions to be more casual.
The only thing I feel that can be done to make D3 NOT become an E-Sport is by intentionally trying to make pvp stupid.... People will make anything they want into an E-Sport if they enjoy the competition. Implementing cool pvp features does not have to be "to promote esports." Why not just implement the cool features because they are cool? That's why a lot of things are in D3 in the first place, because they're cool!
Why not just implement the cool features because they are cool?
Boom. No one can argue with that.
This is the most basic reason why competitive formats should be introduced; because they improve the game. Not for some fear of the game becoming "E-Sports" centered, or to detract from someone's PvE experience. No. They're awesome, fun, and will provide an enormous amount of enjoyment and replay value for a wide section of the consumer base.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To Jay Wilson and everyone else: Diablo 3 can be competitive without being an E-Sport.
I enjoy both aspects of the game but I do believe that the grind is mostly for getting good gear to face people. What use is GODLY gear when you absolutely DESTROY the NPC'S. The game becomes no fun and those PvE players will just put it up on a dusty shelf (GAME OVER). I don't care one way or the other if they balance PvP or even focus on it. I know how blizzard works for the most part. They are smart people! They want to make all the PvE players happy first because they're more likely to cry about graphics and game design. And at the end of the day they do make a lot of sales off PvE because you have to finish the game before you can PvP to your fullest ability.
Remember my fellow PvP players. D2 PvP lasted so long because of the expansion and the content patches
There will be patches and expansions for D3 as well. The PvP will have it's day! But that's after all the PvE only players drop off into nowhere land.
Dear TC I Wholeheartedly agree with you. As a gamer, when I started to play against other players there was almost no game that could draw me back into single player. Single player just does not have the longevity. And playing against AI is not comparable to the challenge and fun of playing against people.
PVP is my endgame. If a game doesn't have fun, well designed, and well supported PVP then people like us will look for another game much sooner
That was a little hyperbole to illustrate my point. But if you think one map and hidden ranking system took 20% of the development time compared to the rest of the PvM game you're delusional.
I'd say it's about 3% PvP and 97% PvE in terms of hours spent developing. I would be perfectly happy with 80/20, but if that were the case we'd have some amazing competitive formats to look forward to in Diablo 3.
My measure was more like how much importance at a first glance people might give to each part of it.
Development-time wise, maybe it has taken more time than that, because some runes seems specifically planned towards PvP usage. And right now, saying it has taken 3% of the development time when we don't even know what PvP will have (the game hasn't been released?) is just a bad guess. We seriously don't know shit about PvP (and won't until release/Blizzcon?).
I have personally heard from a Blizzard employee (while at Blizzcon and chatting while waiting my brother finish a SC2 Bejeweled match) that they were testing more than 1 map for the D3 arena, and that they were even testing maps with traps and interactive stuff internally.
Assuming PvP will suck and the development team doesn't care about is just preemptive negativity. The fact that it is on the game, and that it has actually important features such as a matchmaker and custom designed runes and specific stuff like skills that break cc effects is proof enough that they care.
The only thing we're 100% positive about PvP is that it won't have a competitive level of balance, and they want to remove griefing in PvE. And people proceed to assume all kinds of bad things from that two statements.
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Arena is just too boring and predictable.
Two reasons. 1. even if every class had one or two pvp builds that were balanced, and then the other builds were clearly for pvm, then it would be enough to make a balanced pvp game. 2. To take an idea from the diablo casts, just set people up with standard gear that must be used in the ranked arena, or several choices of gear that are balanced. Say for ranked pvp, you must pick among several chest pieces, helms, etc that are pre-approved and balanced. This would eliminate the problem Jay seems to think would arise from RMAH AND ranked pvp. People can still buy awesome gear for unranked pvp and for pvm, but in ranked, its all about sheer skill.
Again, I know its not their priority to balance pvp, especially with this 2011 release date, and I as much as anyone want the game sooner than later, but this could be a longer term goal for them. They may be scared to try and balance it now, but c'mon blizz, I know you guys can balance it eventually.
This idea sounds ridiculously fun.
Content racing, objective based PvP, arena (all formats), hoard mode, "winner takes all" duels (team and solo), and so much more could make this game absolutely incredible and give it infinite replay value. Too bad it probably won't be given any development focus whatsoever because of some absolutist ideology that diablo must be a 100% pve game.
Not 99%, not 95%, ONE HUNDRED PERCENT.
Insane.
http://diablo3onfarm.wordpress.com/ - Your source for efficient Diablo 3 Farming and news from a unique perspective.
I'd say it's more 80% PvE and 20% PvP.
The problem of developing all those modes is exactly that. They take precious development time. They won't just put it in the game and go "screw it, we won't even discuss the feature, just add a horde mode with random monsters", if they're going to add something, it has to be nearly perfect. That's their developer's philosophy, not an absolutist ideology, and it has worked pretty well until today.
That was a little hyperbole to illustrate my point. But if you think one map and hidden ranking system took 20% of the development time compared to the rest of the PvM game you're delusional.
I'd say it's about 3% PvP and 97% PvE in terms of hours spent developing. I would be perfectly happy with 80/20, but if that were the case we'd have some amazing competitive formats to look forward to in Diablo 3.
http://diablo3onfarm.wordpress.com/ - Your source for efficient Diablo 3 Farming and news from a unique perspective.
But seriously, at the same time, it's true that having an awesome PVE exameperience does not in any way justify making the pvp experience worse. As for preventing E-Sports.... There are past attempts at companies making their games to prevent competition. The best example I can think of is super smash bros. Smash Bros Melee for the Game cube (2001) was, and still is, a hugely popular tournament game that gives out thousands of dollars in prize money and gathers people from all over the world to compete. It's an insanely hardcore and community based game. Smash Bros Brawl (2008) was made with the sole intention of being for casual players and shitting on the competitive community. It added random elements to the game to even advert competitive players from wanting to play. Despite that, the game is still a competitive game with tournaments and everything, though at the same time it's a much worse game because of the companies intentions to be more casual.
The only thing I feel that can be done to make D3 NOT become an E-Sport is by intentionally trying to make pvp stupid.... People will make anything they want into an E-Sport if they enjoy the competition. Implementing cool pvp features does not have to be "to promote esports." Why not just implement the cool features because they are cool? That's why a lot of things are in D3 in the first place, because they're cool!
Boom. No one can argue with that.
This is the most basic reason why competitive formats should be introduced; because they improve the game. Not for some fear of the game becoming "E-Sports" centered, or to detract from someone's PvE experience. No. They're awesome, fun, and will provide an enormous amount of enjoyment and replay value for a wide section of the consumer base.
http://diablo3onfarm.wordpress.com/ - Your source for efficient Diablo 3 Farming and news from a unique perspective.
Remember my fellow PvP players. D2 PvP lasted so long because of the expansion and the content patches
There will be patches and expansions for D3 as well. The PvP will have it's day! But that's after all the PvE only players drop off into nowhere land.
PVP is my endgame. If a game doesn't have fun, well designed, and well supported PVP then people like us will look for another game much sooner
Development-time wise, maybe it has taken more time than that, because some runes seems specifically planned towards PvP usage. And right now, saying it has taken 3% of the development time when we don't even know what PvP will have (the game hasn't been released?) is just a bad guess. We seriously don't know shit about PvP (and won't until release/Blizzcon?).
I have personally heard from a Blizzard employee (while at Blizzcon and chatting while waiting my brother finish a SC2 Bejeweled match) that they were testing more than 1 map for the D3 arena, and that they were even testing maps with traps and interactive stuff internally.
Assuming PvP will suck and the development team doesn't care about is just preemptive negativity. The fact that it is on the game, and that it has actually important features such as a matchmaker and custom designed runes and specific stuff like skills that break cc effects is proof enough that they care.
The only thing we're 100% positive about PvP is that it won't have a competitive level of balance, and they want to remove griefing in PvE. And people proceed to assume all kinds of bad things from that two statements.