I know that Diablo developers do reatroactive changes only to set items and we need to re-obtain legendary items to get their new stats.
This was made for the reason that players don't just hoard single piece of every item in their stash and wait if they ever get "buffed".
But since next patch will(?) introduce ancient version, in this case doing retroactive changes to current legendaries we already own wouldn't make any harm since we will still need to re-obtain again their ancient versions.
Noone sane would keep Skull Grasps atm Same with all other legs. So whats the problem? If you will farm that stuff now or after patch doesnt really matter. And these items will be probably rarer with affixes so they even more likely wont be retroactive.
What matter is that every single piece of legendary I would find now is gonna be forgotten soul in the instant cause a)it's crap and will stay crap b)it's crap and will stay crap if retroactive changes won't apply c)is ok, but already got better version of it.
Not speaking of every single piece of legendary I got stored in stash and mules that will already give me enough forgotten souls.
My guess is that unless it's a full on change to the already existing unique affix on legendaries, then no it won't be retroactive. Skull grasp atm doesn't have anything special which probably means hoarding them won't do anything, since you'll only find the new affix with a fresh drop after the patch.
Legendary affixes take the place of one of the 2 SECONDARY existing affix or primary affix (for weapon). I don't really care whenever they take away gold find or bonus exp affix from my item and replace it with unique I wouldn't miss them at all.
You have just said that there wasn't retroactive change before. The same thing I said in OP. And that there is no reason to do it now. I stated the reason (again) in my OP.
So I don't see your post added any value to the topic.
Everyone values stats in a different way. I have seen people keeping items that are a bit worse than their main items, but have bonus xp/gold find/pickup, as it wont really slow down their t6 farming but increase their paragon levelling (bracers that give xp for gold). So saying you don't care about them replacing a secondary roll, is not true for everyone. Even worse when it does not fit in your build. Say you have gungdo gear on a barbarian, even replacing thorn damage with the exploding palm affix would make it worse than it is (and yes, I know nobody uses them, unless someone that played 10 hours maybe).
Also, since ofen both secondaries are a random roll, what secondary do you replace?
So, unless there was already a special affix that is going to be changed, it is close to impossible to apply the new affix to old items. (furnace and rimeheart got the change after patch, but it was old affix to new affix)
I have no argue about people valueting (is that even word? dunno, I like it anyway) their secondary stats. but with release of dropping the same items with new unique affixes, they are gonna switch their old for new as everyone else. So I don't think for having those stats would do them any harm since they will want to find the same thing again either way.
If you are using gold gear, you already have items with unique stats so nothing will change. But tell me who nowdays use items with no special effects like Skull Grasp. Little to noone. Like your example with gungdo. So I don't see doing any harm in this way to the players.
What sec to replace? I would say the 2nd one, since the first one can be elemental resistence which has a value to everyone. Or if you enchanted secondary stat (either intentionaly or not) this can be replaced so if you really miss that stat, you can enchant it again on place the other one, or if you did that by mistake, you got blessed to enchant any primary stat like planned before.
Impossible.....sounds like madness and we all know Leonidas' respond
As long there is a will, nothing is impossible, the only question is if it's reasonable.
You would replace the second stat. I don't know how they are ordered, but if I look at this picture: http://media-diablofans.cursecdn.com/attachments/21/455/blizzcon14_sunwukospaw_tfu_01.png it looks random to me (as both secondaries are the same). I never checked if a elemental res is always the first secondary stat, or can be a second, but you have to be careful about that.
Also, you say elemental res has a value to everyone: I did salvage items that were "better" than my current, but I could not roll all res on it, because it had elemental res. So taking that stat away could be better for some players :). I know I'm the devils advocate here, but every stat can be good/bad for someone, just removing one (random or in a fixed way) could make an item better/worse. Better would be good, but you can't make it worse. Of course, if the special power gets changed, it does get changed on everything.
But there are items that came with stats before, that can not roll anymore (lidless wall had attackspeed, Kekegi's Unbreakable Spirit had cooldown reduction), so they would have had to change that on existing items as well.
As for your question about using items with no special affix: once I have a good helltrapper to switch to lightning dh, I will switch to this ring: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/item/band-of-untold-secrets. I do have one with 489dex, 7as, 49cd, 6cc, socket (or close to that) with elemental res and I think goldfind, while missing a lightning SOJ (not even sure SOJ would be better). So, I will be using it
Simple answer is that Legendaries NEVER get retroactive changes unless they were game breaking , set items get retroactive changes because sometimes the bonus is game breaking and they don't want you to have pieces of an old set that you can't complete or stuff like that happening also they don't want to have like 10 different versions of a set after a year because of the changes they have been doing.
See this concerns me because I saw something about the Sunwukos set that "looked" to me like it wasn't an improvement. Please tell me I'm wrong ( with an explanation). But if I'm right, I hope to keep my Sunwukos as it is, not retroactively mangled...
Primarily, the reason I wouldn't want retroactive changes this time around is so that should the new items be really horrible or crappy I'd at least have the choice of using the current items I have now. I wouldn't mind having to farm a new set to test out the "improved" items, so long as I had a fallback in case they sucked.
Every existing legendary affix that will get changed, will be a retroactive change. Any new addition of legendary affixes to items that have none atm, will not be retroactive.
This is good because it means that we don't have to keep a billion skull grasps from now untill the patch comes out.
I hate the idea of ancient items being just something you need to be lucky to get. There's a good post on reddit where someone asks how is it not obvious to the devs that ancient items are exactly like the ilvl 63 items in d3v situation and i fully agree with that. I think if anything, ancient items should be achieved through upgrading our existing gear, possibly tied in with the GR system or just a recipe that costs a shit ton like 100 FS, 1B gold, 1k of each mat type, 100 of every marquise gem type... somethign along those lines ^^
Every existing legendary affix that will get changed, will be a retroactive change. Any new addition of legendary affixes to items that have none atm, will not be retroactive.
This is good because it means that we don't have to keep a billion skull grasps from now untill the patch comes out.
I hate the idea of ancient items being just something you need to be lucky to get. There's a good post on reddit where someone asks how is it not obvious to the devs that ancient items are exactly like the ilvl 63 items in d3v situation and i fully agree with that. I think if anything, ancient items should be achieved through upgrading our existing gear, possibly tied in with the GR system or just a recipe that costs a shit ton like 100 FS, 1B gold, 1k of each mat type, 100 of every marquise gem type... somethign along those lines ^^
They aren't the new ilvl63 because they're more or less optional for anything that isn't a high level GRift. Basically only the top 10% of players will be worrying about them, and they'll be getting them.
Whereas ludicrously hard to obtain ilvl63 was required to compete with A2 Torment in vanilla.
Every existing legendary affix that will get changed, will be a retroactive change. Any new addition of legendary affixes to items that have none atm, will not be retroactive.
This is good because it means that we don't have to keep a billion skull grasps from now untill the patch comes out.
I hate the idea of ancient items being just something you need to be lucky to get. There's a good post on reddit where someone asks how is it not obvious to the devs that ancient items are exactly like the ilvl 63 items in d3v situation and i fully agree with that. I think if anything, ancient items should be achieved through upgrading our existing gear, possibly tied in with the GR system or just a recipe that costs a shit ton like 100 FS, 1B gold, 1k of each mat type, 100 of every marquise gem type... somethign along those lines ^^
They aren't the new ilvl63 because they're more or less optional for anything that isn't a high level GRift. Basically only the top 10% of players will be worrying about them, and they'll be getting them.
Whereas ludicrously hard to obtain ilvl63 was required to compete with A2 Torment in vanilla.
Well, in my opinion (And i think many people share it) anything that isn't high gr is eventually pointless and people who don't push for high gr simply quit the game very fast after new seasons or whatever. How long can you faceroll T6 for? Ancients are the new ilvl 63 if they will be implemented the way they were introduced at the con.
Well, in my opinion (And i think many people share it) anything that isn't high gr is eventually pointless and people who don't push for high gr simply quit the game very fast after new seasons or whatever. How long can you faceroll T6 for? Ancients are the new ilvl 63 if they will be implemented the way they were introduced at the con.
The difference is that going up GRifts is incremental, you've got a fair chance of actually getting the gear you need assuming they balance the drop chance correctly. So you'll have progression on two fronts rather than needing progression on one front to manage progression on another.
It's a hugely different scenario that's only really superficially similar. And of course assuming the major population of players actually cares about GRifts as anything more than a a fun pasttime is pretty subjective. I have like 8 friends playing the game with me, of those 8 only one or two of us actually have any interest in GRifts as a competitively interesting goal. T6 facerolling is more enjoyable under most circumstances because it lets us play together without being at the whims of RNG (and of course high GRifts are so much bullshit as to be a joke).
So from where I'm standing the population of the game actually interested in high GRifts is in the 10-20% range. I'd be willing to wager that my experience is closer to the truth of the total population of the game than yours. If only because I know hardcore gamers are a MINORITY population of the total gamer population. Just because you see them more often doesn't mean they're the primary population.
I don't get it. So you're saying that ancient items won't be beneficial at T6? Why wouldn't a player that runs only T6 be interested in an insane dps upgrade? Ancient items will make T6 not a faceroll but a freaking joke. I assume that they will remedy that by introducing new torment levels but all of that doesn't mean anything. With the new ancient items, everything that is not ancient becomes garbage. Sure you can say that you are happy with your gear that allows you to clear T6 or whatever but will you really be satisfied? Knowing that there are items in the game that can boost your damage and toughness by insane amounts... I fail to see your logic. You are saying that ancient items will only matter for clearing high gr which is true only because T6 is a faceroll anyway but still, facerolling even faster is something that you are always striving for no? If not, then i'm assuming that you run weird builds like arcane orb wizard or whatever just because it's cool, then T6 is not a faceroll anymore...
People have been saying that the majority of players don't care about the end game and shit but i think that's only true when a new patch / season is released. All the (I'll use the term not meaning to say it's specifically you) casuals return and flood the servers for a while but then they all quit and go play HS / Hots or whatever... The only people who remain are the "hardcore" players who are actually trying to push high gr... I think this whole "majority of players don't care about high gr" is just a misconception that comes from looking at numbers in a very limited period of time.
I'm saying that there's a point in gear where Ancient items don't actually represent significantly faster clear. And that Ancient items will not have any real negative effect on progression because contrary to popular belief stuff with 10% droprates does actually drop.
Ancient items are entirely a method by which players advance to higher GRifts. By the time you have gear to faceroll T6 and do GR40+ you're gear is so good that a 30% increase in stats results in a considerably lower increase in faceroll rate of T6. And by the time you have that gear you're going to have MULTIPLE Ancient items simply because of the raw volume of drops you're going through. It's not like vanilla where your chance of getting even a good yellow was practically 0. In RoS legends drop more or less like candy, by the time you've got your T&T or Furnace you'll have found a few ancients to give you an edge.
And of course. My friends play 3-5 hours a day. They play every day. Or were playing, stuff is interfering ATM (mostly my classes and their jobs). They're hardly casual, and as far as I can tell the general disregard of GRifts isn't really rare among players who fall somewhere between casual and hardcore. Which is in fact most players. And they do not in fact simply stop playing. You know aside form the SR2.0 on LoL. And Hexakill. But I digress.
Reason being that most players can't devote every second of the day to making sure they're in the top 10, or top 100, or whatever people are trying to do. And if you can't make that top whatever GRifts aren't anywhere near as fun as normal rifts, because they're an exercise in futility the higher up you go. It's like beating your head against a wall for hours on end, there's no progress to be made.
I think this whole "Only hardcore players are left because the casuals and whoever leave to play whatever" is born form being surrounded CONSTANTLY by fellow hardcore players and the fact that essentially ONLY hardcore players use the forums communicating. So you're just parroting the same opinions back and forth in the giant circle-jerk of self-affirmation that any community of like-minds eventually forms. It's not really anyone's fault. People like other people who think like them. But it does narrow point of view.
At the end of the day the general playing population of D3 isn't hardcores. It's some mix of Hardcores and Casuals in some proportion, with the most of the playerbase falling in between. And that larger portion is less likely to really care about GRifts in the same way hardcore players do because the GR score that matters to them is the one they can do with their friends.
To put it in perspective on the official in the top 1000 Demon Hunters there are 270 players above GR 40 solo. Now if you consider players within the top 3 GR levels it's only 6 vying for top position. You're overestimating the proportion of active players vying for the GRift leaderboards based on the communities you interact with and the general bias that forms.
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This was made for the reason that players don't just hoard single piece of every item in their stash and wait if they ever get "buffed".
But since next patch will(?) introduce ancient version, in this case doing retroactive changes to current legendaries we already own wouldn't make any harm since we will still need to re-obtain again their ancient versions.
like
Not speaking of every single piece of legendary I got stored in stash and mules that will already give me enough forgotten souls.
You have just said that there wasn't retroactive change before. The same thing I said in OP. And that there is no reason to do it now. I stated the reason (again) in my OP.
So I don't see your post added any value to the topic.
Everyone values stats in a different way. I have seen people keeping items that are a bit worse than their main items, but have bonus xp/gold find/pickup, as it wont really slow down their t6 farming but increase their paragon levelling (bracers that give xp for gold). So saying you don't care about them replacing a secondary roll, is not true for everyone. Even worse when it does not fit in your build. Say you have gungdo gear on a barbarian, even replacing thorn damage with the exploding palm affix would make it worse than it is (and yes, I know nobody uses them, unless someone that played 10 hours maybe).
Also, since ofen both secondaries are a random roll, what secondary do you replace?
So, unless there was already a special affix that is going to be changed, it is close to impossible to apply the new affix to old items. (furnace and rimeheart got the change after patch, but it was old affix to new affix)
If you are using gold gear, you already have items with unique stats so nothing will change. But tell me who nowdays use items with no special effects like Skull Grasp. Little to noone. Like your example with gungdo. So I don't see doing any harm in this way to the players.
What sec to replace? I would say the 2nd one, since the first one can be elemental resistence which has a value to everyone. Or if you enchanted secondary stat (either intentionaly or not) this can be replaced so if you really miss that stat, you can enchant it again on place the other one, or if you did that by mistake, you got blessed to enchant any primary stat like planned before.
Impossible.....sounds like madness and we all know Leonidas' respond
As long there is a will, nothing is impossible, the only question is if it's reasonable.
You would replace the second stat. I don't know how they are ordered, but if I look at this picture: http://media-diablofans.cursecdn.com/attachments/21/455/blizzcon14_sunwukospaw_tfu_01.png it looks random to me (as both secondaries are the same). I never checked if a elemental res is always the first secondary stat, or can be a second, but you have to be careful about that.
Also, you say elemental res has a value to everyone: I did salvage items that were "better" than my current, but I could not roll all res on it, because it had elemental res. So taking that stat away could be better for some players :). I know I'm the devils advocate here, but every stat can be good/bad for someone, just removing one (random or in a fixed way) could make an item better/worse. Better would be good, but you can't make it worse. Of course, if the special power gets changed, it does get changed on everything.
But there are items that came with stats before, that can not roll anymore (lidless wall had attackspeed, Kekegi's Unbreakable Spirit had cooldown reduction), so they would have had to change that on existing items as well.
As for your question about using items with no special affix: once I have a good helltrapper to switch to lightning dh, I will switch to this ring: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/item/band-of-untold-secrets. I do have one with 489dex, 7as, 49cd, 6cc, socket (or close to that) with elemental res and I think goldfind, while missing a lightning SOJ (not even sure SOJ would be better). So, I will be using it
WD Season 8 https://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/finiar-1655/Kildare/84509816
Monk season 7 http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/finiar-1655/MojoJoJo/42225505
DH season 6 http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/finiar-1655/DeadShot/75655606
Angry Chicken http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/finiar-1655/WhoDoVooDoo/68187610
What? Me worry?
This is good because it means that we don't have to keep a billion skull grasps from now untill the patch comes out.
I hate the idea of ancient items being just something you need to be lucky to get. There's a good post on reddit where someone asks how is it not obvious to the devs that ancient items are exactly like the ilvl 63 items in d3v situation and i fully agree with that. I think if anything, ancient items should be achieved through upgrading our existing gear, possibly tied in with the GR system or just a recipe that costs a shit ton like 100 FS, 1B gold, 1k of each mat type, 100 of every marquise gem type... somethign along those lines ^^
Whereas ludicrously hard to obtain ilvl63 was required to compete with A2 Torment in vanilla.
Is your stash filled to the brim? Do you not have anymore room to hold onto junk? Then retroactive changes are not for you!
No one likes holding onto worthless items, so don't expect new legendary affixes to ever be retroactive.
The difference is that going up GRifts is incremental, you've got a fair chance of actually getting the gear you need assuming they balance the drop chance correctly. So you'll have progression on two fronts rather than needing progression on one front to manage progression on another.
It's a hugely different scenario that's only really superficially similar. And of course assuming the major population of players actually cares about GRifts as anything more than a a fun pasttime is pretty subjective. I have like 8 friends playing the game with me, of those 8 only one or two of us actually have any interest in GRifts as a competitively interesting goal. T6 facerolling is more enjoyable under most circumstances because it lets us play together without being at the whims of RNG (and of course high GRifts are so much bullshit as to be a joke).
So from where I'm standing the population of the game actually interested in high GRifts is in the 10-20% range. I'd be willing to wager that my experience is closer to the truth of the total population of the game than yours. If only because I know hardcore gamers are a MINORITY population of the total gamer population. Just because you see them more often doesn't mean they're the primary population.
People have been saying that the majority of players don't care about the end game and shit but i think that's only true when a new patch / season is released. All the (I'll use the term not meaning to say it's specifically you) casuals return and flood the servers for a while but then they all quit and go play HS / Hots or whatever... The only people who remain are the "hardcore" players who are actually trying to push high gr... I think this whole "majority of players don't care about high gr" is just a misconception that comes from looking at numbers in a very limited period of time.
Ancient items are entirely a method by which players advance to higher GRifts. By the time you have gear to faceroll T6 and do GR40+ you're gear is so good that a 30% increase in stats results in a considerably lower increase in faceroll rate of T6. And by the time you have that gear you're going to have MULTIPLE Ancient items simply because of the raw volume of drops you're going through. It's not like vanilla where your chance of getting even a good yellow was practically 0. In RoS legends drop more or less like candy, by the time you've got your T&T or Furnace you'll have found a few ancients to give you an edge.
And of course. My friends play 3-5 hours a day. They play every day. Or were playing, stuff is interfering ATM (mostly my classes and their jobs). They're hardly casual, and as far as I can tell the general disregard of GRifts isn't really rare among players who fall somewhere between casual and hardcore. Which is in fact most players. And they do not in fact simply stop playing. You know aside form the SR2.0 on LoL. And Hexakill. But I digress.
Reason being that most players can't devote every second of the day to making sure they're in the top 10, or top 100, or whatever people are trying to do. And if you can't make that top whatever GRifts aren't anywhere near as fun as normal rifts, because they're an exercise in futility the higher up you go. It's like beating your head against a wall for hours on end, there's no progress to be made.
I think this whole "Only hardcore players are left because the casuals and whoever leave to play whatever" is born form being surrounded CONSTANTLY by fellow hardcore players and the fact that essentially ONLY hardcore players use the forums communicating. So you're just parroting the same opinions back and forth in the giant circle-jerk of self-affirmation that any community of like-minds eventually forms. It's not really anyone's fault. People like other people who think like them. But it does narrow point of view.
At the end of the day the general playing population of D3 isn't hardcores. It's some mix of Hardcores and Casuals in some proportion, with the most of the playerbase falling in between. And that larger portion is less likely to really care about GRifts in the same way hardcore players do because the GR score that matters to them is the one they can do with their friends.
To put it in perspective on the official in the top 1000 Demon Hunters there are 270 players above GR 40 solo. Now if you consider players within the top 3 GR levels it's only 6 vying for top position. You're overestimating the proportion of active players vying for the GRift leaderboards based on the communities you interact with and the general bias that forms.