Ok here it goes....I am sorry I have to do this,cant help it...now I have two melee character a barb and a crusader (they have 1300 hours of gameplay between them) both of them are on the verge of going big,I mean EU rank big but I am missing The Furnace from both of them.Now,you might say this is normal and I would agree but I seem to have a problem,you see whenever there is an item which is crucial to a build, I dont find it until it is completely useless.For instance when I rolled my crusader and managed to collect all the gear necessary for a shotgun build,I was missing soj,now I stayed like for 5 months and I got one right after 2.1 hit which means I dont need a holy one anymore I need a physical one and behold I get one everyday now and they are all useless.Nowadays (I mean the last 3 months) I have looking for a furnace with both of my MELEE characters and no luck at all,can not count how many shards I have spent,how much I have wasted away in normal rifts and greater ones. I have to tell,I wasnt going to write stuff here and hate people who come here to vent but I am very frustrated. What tipped me over the edge was; We took a demon hunter with us to a rift,he was a new player who we were helping to gear up. And the third we kill drops him a furnace and not just any furnace, a STR and VITA FURNACE with cooldown on it.I have been looking for that item for 3 months now.It is the only thing that is keeping me from going over 40 in both my characters.Someone please explain to me,how does this reward me as a dedicated player,who plays 4-5 hours a day.I am really starting to believe Diablo game mechanics does not reward the players.And dont get me started on the subject that melee characters,especially crusader and barbarian can not play solo without avoiding everything like a little bitch and cant play in a group unless they are the sponge to soak damage.How is this fair?
We took a demon hunter with us to a rift,he was a new player who we were helping to gear up. And the third we kill drops him a furnace and not just any furnace, a STR and VITA FURNACE with cooldown on it.
This story is BS bc DH cant find the furnance there is 0% chance for them to find it.
@FEIF81 it says 0 % chance because there's 0 % chance to get the furnace as part of the smart-rolled DH loot - however you have to keep in mind that every time an item drops there's a "small" chance for it to be non-smart loot which means it can litterally be any item in the game with strength/dex/int.. doesn't matter
This small chance is 15% and it can be any lootable item with appropirate stats. You can find calamity on barb but it wont roll str lol.
The problem is - the game isn't truly RNG as every stooge here says over and over ... repeating the line from Blizzard ad nauseam.
It is a weighted loot system -- there are values associated with every piece of loot. If it was truly RNG - there would be no values - no weights, no limits, no "laws". If the game decides that a chest pops out a legendary, and that legendary "rolls" gloves for example, then smart loot says its a DH so it should have Dex on it, then it "rolls" the item -- a true RNG game would have that roll give you a chance on all 32 different gloves available to the DH at equal weights. But D3 doesn't -- some moron game developer at Blizzard decided that making TnT for example have around a 2% chance out of those 32 to drop. So instead you get 10s and 10s of crappy Magefists or Glad Gauntlets over and over. Don't even get me started on Bojanglers. I know a DH with over 400 paras and has never seen a pair of TnTs one time. That isn't RNG. That is a stupid design idea carried out to moronic degree in D3.
Hence your Furnace dilemma -- if Furnace was weighted the same as say all the 2-handers in the game - you would stand a fair chance in a RNG system to eventually get one. But you don't because -- Blizz decided to weigh it so low below all the other 2-handers - you will loot a F*#K ton of Messerschmidts Reavers instead and may NEVER see a Furnace because of that low percentage weighing. There are several spreadsheets out there right now that show you all the absurd weights on items - like the Witching Hour. Lets not even talk about the fact that if they do even drop they then have a high probabilty chance to roll like crap.
RNG = all items would be equal among the categories of the slot. There would be NO weight system.
Should a Starmetal Kukri have less than a 1% chance to drop ? No way - its stupid and a flawed design. Should it be somewhat rare? Sure I guess - and in a none weighted RNG game system it would be -- you could get one of the many crappy 1-handers in the game like the Gift of S over and over.
GRifts are worthless and leader-boards pointless and full of frauds -- removing the weights would be good for the game... who would it "hurt" really? This is a solo game at its core with some attempts to add in some other junk beyond that. You could play the build you want, how you want, when you want, and then search for the upgraded rolls of the items you have and are enjoying already.
Not frustrated beyond belief, because for example you have 535 paras on a DH and never once seen a Witching Hour of any stat kind - but have purchased at least 20 Harrington's and Hellcats each with over 50,000 blood shards. And that is just a belt -- a slot that is largely pointless to a build unlike your weapon problem that can make or break the build you really would love to play.
Except it's still RNG - there's just a lower chance to luck out and get something than there are others because they have weighted drop chances. I got two calamity's from random rifts in less than an hour earlier tonight (Calamity is the furnace of demon hunters, just FYI). That's all random. It's a good thing that the most powerfull of all items are rare, because it gives us something to work towards, and when they finally drop, it gives us a sense of accomplishment. If I got five furnaces every week just by playing, then I wouldn't really care about the fact that I found the BiS weapon. Same way you don't really give a shit that you're wearing "insert-set-piece-X" here, despite the set being build defining and BiS.
I found a wow wand and furnace on my dh. Smart loot is class based but your natural mf isnt. Getting off spec items just reminds us of how bad drop rates were before
There are different "kind of people" playing the game:
- Players that just want a full set, handle T6 and be done. Handing out every piece of BIS gear would "hurt" them, as they would be done in 10 hours, complaining about how expensive the game is for so little fun. - Players that want to have the best gear around (#1 dps on diabloprogress anyone?). Again, dropping every single BIS item would hurt them, as everyone playing 10 hours would be equally geared. - Players that play hours and hours per day, trying to get the most out of each item, farming for that advantage and actually giving a part of their life, to get a high spot on the leaderboards. Since GRifts are a lot of RNG already, giving every piece of BIS gear to everyone who asks for it, would "hurt" them. They managed to get it, just farm more (and I know how bad it can be, I got 700+ non season and 600+ season paragon, still haven't seen a furnace, but gave up on str chars so don't really care). - Players that only play a few hours per week. They propably don't read all the forums and have all the info on the BIS items. For them, seeing something powerful drop (like a WH) will make them happy for weeks, while they wouldn't care if it doesn't drop. It would hurt them if top items drop more often, and they would hit the limit of their gear pretty fast, getting that bored feeling after 2 weeks of no upgrade.
- Players that think they play a lot, think they are epic at the game, the game requires no skill, no dedication, only being hold back from the leaderboards "because they miss that one item", it would not hurt them. But that's a small group I think/hope.
My opinion: The game became way to casual already, set pieces dropping left and right, stat ranges on most items being to small for the number of times they drop, smart loot, only 4 affixes (monk wanted specific secondary res, with the "harmony" they just want a secondary res, so call it 4.25 for a monk), option to reroll an affix however you want, free handouts of the best ring (ring of royal grandeur) in the game (1/5 act1 T6 bounties should give one, the amulet being pretty good as well with guaranteed 2/4 mainstats you want), now guaranteed organs drops from ubers and group keydrops from keywarden so you can all target the same, removal of legendary crafting mats (several crafted sets are still BIS for certain builds), ... Please let there be something left to grind for in a grinding game with some "addition end game cause we got nothing to do since items drop so easy and the game is too easy).
On the other hand, I would not be against a higher drop chance for some items, if they compensate with them being able to roll really bad. Every DH "NEED" taskers for their build to work? Ok, but make them roll with 250-500 mainstat, 3-7 attackspeed, put a garanteed unwanted stat on them (I don't know, bleed damage?), make the pet speed go 10-50 instead of 40-50, ... Same with furnace. (not all of the bad things at the same time ofcourse). This way, you can get your build to work, while still having to farm for a good version. (who doesn't remember mempo with optional crit roll). It would be so fun, at the start of a season, to be able to farm (for example) with a full marauder, bombardier, tasker set, being stuck at T4 because you don't have the damage, but you DO have the right items and can upgrade them, playing the build you want.
To summon up: Either keep the super rare items, or make them non-rare but with much lower low rolls than other legendaries.
removing the weights would be good for the game...
This I agree with. The problem though I think is that different people see Diablo differently. Super-rare, super-strong items are fine for a game that has no competitive aspect to it, which diablo partly is (and what some people think Diablo only is). But now with the addition of GRifts and leaderboards it seems Blizz want to bring some competitiveness to it (for the obvious reason that this adds longevity to a game), and from that perspective super-rare drops are just bad for the game.
I have to disagree with that. Either I'm very lucky (as would my clanmates be), our you would have to be very unlucky, but I got every piece I want within 300-400 paragon levels. This does include rare items like soj, wh, calamity, starmetal, only missing furnace but mainly played dh and no str class, so not really a surprice there.
If you really want the compete on the leaderboards, you can't expect to be equally geared as someone farming a lot. So once you decide you want to seriously compete, you have to accept that you will have to grind for your items (best at the start of the season ofcourse). Even if you would have the exact same gear as high ranked people from the start, without spending a second of farming them, you would be so far behind because of paragon points.
So, if you really want to compete, it's not only about your items, you almost need 600-800 paragon to max out your dps (as/cc/cd/cooldown). So the grind for that 1 super rare item goes hand in hand with the gain of xp and thus maxing out your base stats, and actually mastering some of the builds to perfection.
I do agree it is rare that you start a competition in a game where a lot of your succes is based on external factors (gear, paragon), but don't forget that D3 started as a farming/grinding game about your items, with new end-game being added over time because people were getting bored.
Don't take away the core of the game because of some secondary game aspects.
The problem is - the game isn't truly RNG as every stooge here says over and over ... repeating the line from Blizzard ad nauseam.
It is a weighted loot system -- there are values associated with every piece of loot. If it was truly RNG - there would be no values - no weights, no limits, no "laws". <snip>
What are you talking about? There's absolutely a RNG within the game. You can have both a random number generator, as well as weights to go along with it. I *believe* what you're trying to say is if it's truly random, it wouldn't have weights, but again that also would be wrong. Even if I weight the odds of picking the right door out of 2 doors 1:1,000,000 and then use a RNG to determine which one is picked, it's still random.
Prior to 2.1, I had quit the game as it felt unproductive and simply "not fun". The last 200 hours I had played yielded nothing. I had not found one item to replace my existing items nor had I found any new items to allow me to experiment with builds. Note I had played a wiz for 800 hours plus around 250 hours with other classes .
After 2.1 was released, this all changed. Drop rates seemed to have been increased considerably. I had found my first ever Wand of Woh and was able to play every class feeling every session ( 1 to 3 hours ) felt rewarding. I had found set many set items pieces for each class and really enjoyed playing them. Around that time, Blizzard were also offering D3 Vanilla and D3 RoS at 50% discount online. Coincidence or not ?
However, in the past 3 three weeks, drop rates seems to have returned back to pre 2.1 levels. I now mainly play DH and have been looking for a build changing item, Having grinded efficiently for 3 weeks and having spent at least 25,000 blood shards on Kalada, I have not seen one TnT or witching hour or calamity or anything else regarded as super rare. Of the 20,000 I have spent on gloves, I have seen 3 frostburns, tens of mage fists, tens of maruaders gloves and countless shadow gloves but no TNT.
Oh, I did find a decent bombadier rucksack when grifting which I wasted hard earned 1 billion gold re-rolling for nothing.
D3 is no longer fun/ rewarding. Time for a break perhaps until the next marketing push.
well....a little bit of update on my post and situation.After the 4 man group inclusion of crusader,everyone is now leveling a crusader in my clan to get into higher grifting parties and I did the same thing,went up to 45 with build which was not really fun.You just stand there and spam shield glare.Anyway,while everyone who did not touch a crusader before were leveling and gearing.5 Furnaces dropped in 4 days for 3 different people,which me furious beyond measure.They are now solo grifting with worse gear than me and passing me by.I guess its time to move on to DH or WİZ.So long crusader and barb.
I guess the whole game is so broken with this fake RNG system then.
Look at Gogok of Swiftness. This item is fundamentally wrong in every random way you can look at it. The player can change the truly random 50:50 weights to values in favor of him. Hilarious!
I don't want to start talking about CritChance, DodgeChance, BlockChance, Area Damage, or even complete builds like petdoctors with FS. Everywhere only weighted random numbers.
I simply cannot believe the unrelenting cynicism so many player spew forth.
Prior to 2.1, I had quit the game as it felt unproductive and simply "not fun". The last 200 hours I had played yielded nothing. I had not found one item to replace my existing items nor had I found any new items to allow me to experiment with builds. Note I had played a wiz for 800 hours plus around 250 hours with other classes .
After 2.1 was released, this all changed. Drop rates seemed to have been increased considerably. I had found my first ever Wand of Woh and was able to play every class feeling every session ( 1 to 3 hours ) felt rewarding. I had found set many set items pieces for each class and really enjoyed playing them. Around that time, Blizzard were also offering D3 Vanilla and D3 RoS at 50% discount online. Coincidence or not ?
However, in the past 3 three weeks, drop rates seems to have returned back to pre 2.1 levels. I now mainly play DH and have been looking for a build changing item, Having grinded efficiently for 3 weeks and having spent at least 25,000 blood shards on Kalada, I have not seen one TnT or witching hour or calamity or anything else regarded as super rare. Of the 20,000 I have spent on gloves, I have seen 3 frostburns, tens of mage fists, tens of maruaders gloves and countless shadow gloves but no TNT.
Oh, I did find a decent bombadier rucksack when grifting which I wasted hard earned 1 billion gold re-rolling for nothing.
D3 is no longer fun/ rewarding. Time for a break perhaps until the next marketing push.
T&T and Frostbourne have the same drop rate. you got your "super rare" (x3) you just didn't want it.
AS to RNG in general, I'd have liked to have gotten a Starmetal at some point. I've played a god awful number of hours on WD and never got one. In fact, I've nly ever seen 1 drop at the beginning 2.0 in a shared farm group, where 2/4 already had ti and i was the unlucky guy who was not gifted it. But, RNG is RNG, and I think ive got everything else Ive wanted except a calamity..although my 2 Furnaces could have rolled better.
That said I'm on hiatus until I'm bored with Heroes of the Storm and / or a new content patch.
Just because you want something doesn't mean you deserve it, kids these days...
Not all loot is Smart Loot.
Any item can drop for any class. Just this morning, my monk harvested a Zuni Chest. Last week, A Calamity.
The only Furnace I've ever found;
....I found with my HC Wizard. Notice it rolled STR.
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC) Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan
You're a wizard Harry.....
It is a weighted loot system -- there are values associated with every piece of loot. If it was truly RNG - there would be no values - no weights, no limits, no "laws". If the game decides that a chest pops out a legendary, and that legendary "rolls" gloves for example, then smart loot says its a DH so it should have Dex on it, then it "rolls" the item -- a true RNG game would have that roll give you a chance on all 32 different gloves available to the DH at equal weights. But D3 doesn't -- some moron game developer at Blizzard decided that making TnT for example have around a 2% chance out of those 32 to drop. So instead you get 10s and 10s of crappy Magefists or Glad Gauntlets over and over. Don't even get me started on Bojanglers. I know a DH with over 400 paras and has never seen a pair of TnTs one time. That isn't RNG. That is a stupid design idea carried out to moronic degree in D3.
Hence your Furnace dilemma -- if Furnace was weighted the same as say all the 2-handers in the game - you would stand a fair chance in a RNG system to eventually get one. But you don't because -- Blizz decided to weigh it so low below all the other 2-handers - you will loot a F*#K ton of Messerschmidts Reavers instead and may NEVER see a Furnace because of that low percentage weighing. There are several spreadsheets out there right now that show you all the absurd weights on items - like the Witching Hour. Lets not even talk about the fact that if they do even drop they then have a high probabilty chance to roll like crap.
RNG = all items would be equal among the categories of the slot. There would be NO weight system.
Should a Starmetal Kukri have less than a 1% chance to drop ? No way - its stupid and a flawed design. Should it be somewhat rare? Sure I guess - and in a none weighted RNG game system it would be -- you could get one of the many crappy 1-handers in the game like the Gift of S over and over.
GRifts are worthless and leader-boards pointless and full of frauds -- removing the weights would be good for the game... who would it "hurt" really? This is a solo game at its core with some attempts to add in some other junk beyond that. You could play the build you want, how you want, when you want, and then search for the upgraded rolls of the items you have and are enjoying already.
Not frustrated beyond belief, because for example you have 535 paras on a DH and never once seen a Witching Hour of any stat kind - but have purchased at least 20 Harrington's and Hellcats each with over 50,000 blood shards. And that is just a belt -- a slot that is largely pointless to a build unlike your weapon problem that can make or break the build you really would love to play.
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC) Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan
There are different "kind of people" playing the game:
- Players that just want a full set, handle T6 and be done. Handing out every piece of BIS gear would "hurt" them, as they would be done in 10 hours, complaining about how expensive the game is for so little fun.
- Players that want to have the best gear around (#1 dps on diabloprogress anyone?). Again, dropping every single BIS item would hurt them, as everyone playing 10 hours would be equally geared.
- Players that play hours and hours per day, trying to get the most out of each item, farming for that advantage and actually giving a part of their life, to get a high spot on the leaderboards. Since GRifts are a lot of RNG already, giving every piece of BIS gear to everyone who asks for it, would "hurt" them. They managed to get it, just farm more (and I know how bad it can be, I got 700+ non season and 600+ season paragon, still haven't seen a furnace, but gave up on str chars so don't really care).
- Players that only play a few hours per week. They propably don't read all the forums and have all the info on the BIS items. For them, seeing something powerful drop (like a WH) will make them happy for weeks, while they wouldn't care if it doesn't drop. It would hurt them if top items drop more often, and they would hit the limit of their gear pretty fast, getting that bored feeling after 2 weeks of no upgrade.
- Players that think they play a lot, think they are epic at the game, the game requires no skill, no dedication, only being hold back from the leaderboards "because they miss that one item", it would not hurt them. But that's a small group I think/hope.
My opinion: The game became way to casual already, set pieces dropping left and right, stat ranges on most items being to small for the number of times they drop, smart loot, only 4 affixes (monk wanted specific secondary res, with the "harmony" they just want a secondary res, so call it 4.25 for a monk), option to reroll an affix however you want, free handouts of the best ring (ring of royal grandeur) in the game (1/5 act1 T6 bounties should give one, the amulet being pretty good as well with guaranteed 2/4 mainstats you want), now guaranteed organs drops from ubers and group keydrops from keywarden so you can all target the same, removal of legendary crafting mats (several crafted sets are still BIS for certain builds), ... Please let there be something left to grind for in a grinding game with some "addition end game cause we got nothing to do since items drop so easy and the game is too easy).
On the other hand, I would not be against a higher drop chance for some items, if they compensate with them being able to roll really bad. Every DH "NEED" taskers for their build to work? Ok, but make them roll with 250-500 mainstat, 3-7 attackspeed, put a garanteed unwanted stat on them (I don't know, bleed damage?), make the pet speed go 10-50 instead of 40-50, ... Same with furnace. (not all of the bad things at the same time ofcourse). This way, you can get your build to work, while still having to farm for a good version. (who doesn't remember mempo with optional crit roll). It would be so fun, at the start of a season, to be able to farm (for example) with a full marauder, bombardier, tasker set, being stuck at T4 because you don't have the damage, but you DO have the right items and can upgrade them, playing the build you want.
To summon up: Either keep the super rare items, or make them non-rare but with much lower low rolls than other legendaries.
Happy grinding!
I have to disagree with that. Either I'm very lucky (as would my clanmates be), our you would have to be very unlucky, but I got every piece I want within 300-400 paragon levels. This does include rare items like soj, wh, calamity, starmetal, only missing furnace but mainly played dh and no str class, so not really a surprice there.
If you really want the compete on the leaderboards, you can't expect to be equally geared as someone farming a lot. So once you decide you want to seriously compete, you have to accept that you will have to grind for your items (best at the start of the season ofcourse). Even if you would have the exact same gear as high ranked people from the start, without spending a second of farming them, you would be so far behind because of paragon points.
So, if you really want to compete, it's not only about your items, you almost need 600-800 paragon to max out your dps (as/cc/cd/cooldown). So the grind for that 1 super rare item goes hand in hand with the gain of xp and thus maxing out your base stats, and actually mastering some of the builds to perfection.
I do agree it is rare that you start a competition in a game where a lot of your succes is based on external factors (gear, paragon), but don't forget that D3 started as a farming/grinding game about your items, with new end-game being added over time because people were getting bored.
Don't take away the core of the game because of some secondary game aspects.
After 2.1 was released, this all changed. Drop rates seemed to have been increased considerably. I had found my first ever Wand of Woh and was able to play every class feeling every session ( 1 to 3 hours ) felt rewarding. I had found set many set items pieces for each class and really enjoyed playing them. Around that time, Blizzard were also offering D3 Vanilla and D3 RoS at 50% discount online. Coincidence or not ?
However, in the past 3 three weeks, drop rates seems to have returned back to pre 2.1 levels. I now mainly play DH and have been looking for a build changing item, Having grinded efficiently for 3 weeks and having spent at least 25,000 blood shards on Kalada, I have not seen one TnT or witching hour or calamity or anything else regarded as super rare. Of the 20,000 I have spent on gloves, I have seen 3 frostburns, tens of mage fists, tens of maruaders gloves and countless shadow gloves but no TNT.
Oh, I did find a decent bombadier rucksack when grifting which I wasted hard earned 1 billion gold re-rolling for nothing.
D3 is no longer fun/ rewarding. Time for a break perhaps until the next marketing push.
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC) Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan
AS to RNG in general, I'd have liked to have gotten a Starmetal at some point. I've played a god awful number of hours on WD and never got one. In fact, I've nly ever seen 1 drop at the beginning 2.0 in a shared farm group, where 2/4 already had ti and i was the unlucky guy who was not gifted it. But, RNG is RNG, and I think ive got everything else Ive wanted except a calamity..although my 2 Furnaces could have rolled better.
That said I'm on hiatus until I'm bored with Heroes of the Storm and / or a new content patch.