Yep, and all those paragon points are going to be a factor in the GRift leaderboards, you mark my words. The gear will come later, and easier for it. Not to mention when it rolls over and gets dumped into the reg season paragon pool, it's that much more. It will affect the boards.
Yep, and all those paragon points are going to be a factor in the GRift leaderboards, you mark my words. The gear will come later, and easier for it. Not to mention when it rolls over and gets dumped into the reg season paragon pool, it's that much more. It will affect the boards.
Unless it gets removed.
Paragon points aren't a significant enough source of stats to have a real affect on the sum total final leaderboards. Gea rand /timespent are far far more important for final rankings. Sine apparently legit people are hitting 400 paragon at the top end now, and past that point all additional levels are basically gravy with no real effect on total stats.
As far as rollover goes: Watch Blizz say "due to exploiting we will not be rolling over paragon experience at the end of this season".
Of course non-season has been rendered essentially non-competitive at this point with the introduction of seasons. And of course the only non-season leaderboard affected will be paragon level since non-season characters are already in near-or-total-BiS pieces among non-casual players. Hell the rollover will have even LESS effect on non-season than it does on season, since you can't even claim that the extra levels will have any legitimate affect on those characters compared to tehir current power level.
To the point I highlighted, I'd probably agree with you, but if you put yourself in the seat of, or try to see from the point of view of those people that DO care about that leaderboard, it affects them. Try to see it from someone else's viewpoint.
Minimally now whether anyone else circumvented the system, it's all questionable, doubtful, just that bit less prestigious. And that affects some people.
I care about leaderboard. But I care about leaderboards that have real substance. World-first T6 kills, highest GRift, speed run conquests (a little less substance), highest "gearscore". None of those are affected by the exploit.
If stuff like that had been exploitable? Hell yah I'd want bans. But as someone who has enough epeen to give a shit about real challenges paragon levels are laughable. All they say is "I spent a billion hours farming XP". They aren't so much a personal achievement as an afterthought.
As the whole "weraing p100 gear at p500" situation so very perfectly shows.
I have sympathy that their epeen is hurting. But wanting bans over it is basically throwing a tantrum. Those free levels don't mean jack-shit for the final power of the character when the season ends, that's going to come from long hours at a keyboard, a bit of skill, anda touch of luck. None of which has been exploited for.
levels definitly matter, lets say someone who is level 35, they cant do t 6 without being kicked from the group, but when people see a level 350 they wont do shit. gabyanotor went from like 50 to 350 in1 day therefor allowing him to to t 6 and therefore get gear faster, and therefore getting higher on the leaderboards. just because you think paragons dont mean a lot doesnt mean it deosnt affect other aspects of the game. also it gives a slight edge in greater rifts, anything below 800 is important in paragon, even as important as a piece of gear. 50% crit damage is the equivelant of a ring, 10% cooldown is the equievelent of a major part of an amulet. they might not be drastic but they do affect gameplay and leaderboards. thats like saying 250 primary stats and 50% crit damage, 10% crit, 10% cooldown, and 10% recource cost reduction, lots of life per hit mean nothing, if it means nothing then why is it on some of the most important pieces of gear in the game with about the same ammount oif stats?
I have sympathy that their epeen is hurting. But wanting bans over it is basically throwing a tantrum.
Throwing a tantrum? Really?
That's like saying that someone who advocates that Ray Rice does jail time is throwing a tantrum because Ray Rice didn't punch HIM/HER in the face. It just doesn't work that way. We have rules in life and in games for a reason. Wanting the rulemakers to follow through with the rules they've put in place isn't throwing a tantrum.
However, standing up for cheaters is surely the mark of a scumbag.
This exploit did affect me quite a bit. Was doing some random t6 split farms yesterday and saw a monk at level 474 while I was 386. He literally didnt even have his sunwuku set completed yet and was basically running around in gear I had when I was paragon 100. When I checked his time played it was 1/3th of the time I spend on my character.
There is no way he didnt exploit, and its annoying the hell out of me that they're just running around enjoying the game while nothing gets done.
How in the fuck-hell are you people even at p100 yet?
386 is quite a bit for such a very short time, wowzers. I've been playing what I consider to be quite a bit in non-season, and I'm only 417. You got about as far as I have in a matter of days. It took me many months to do that.
No wonder so many of you are mad, probably fucking cabin fever.
Seriously though, how are people getting to almost 400 paragon in such a short time and still hating on exploiters? I'm at 340 non-season and can split farm T6, but I'm getting around 8 paragon levels a day playing pretty efficiently for around 3 hours. There should be repercussions for cheaters, but once you start cheating it devalues the entire experience for me.
It's like in GTA when you start adding ammo and then spawning cars and eventually you can't enjoy the real game because why would you work for something when you can get instant gratification. The point that I start cheating is the time when I'm squeezing the last drops of fun from a game, so I pity people that are at that point, I'm loving earning every item and exp point. It's the culture of instant me-me-me gratification we have today, it's only beneficial on face value and is rotten at the core.
To the point I highlighted, I'd probably agree with you, but if you put yourself in the seat of, or try to see from the point of view of those people that DO care about that leaderboard, it affects them. Try to see it from someone else's viewpoint.
Minimally now whether anyone else circumvented the system, it's all questionable, doubtful, just that bit less prestigious. And that affects some people.
I care about leaderboard. But I care about leaderboards that have real substance. World-first T6 kills, highest GRift, speed run conquests (a little less substance), highest "gearscore". None of those are affected by the exploit.
If stuff like that had been exploitable? Hell yah I'd want bans. But as someone who has enough epeen to give a shit about real challenges paragon levels are laughable. All they say is "I spent a billion hours farming XP". They aren't so much a personal achievement as an afterthought.
As the whole "weraing p100 gear at p500" situation so very perfectly shows.
I have sympathy that their epeen is hurting. But wanting bans over it is basically throwing a tantrum. Those free levels don't mean jack-shit for the final power of the character when the season ends, that's going to come from long hours at a keyboard, a bit of skill, anda touch of luck. None of which has been exploited for.
levels definitly matter, lets say someone who is level 35, they cant do t 6 without being kicked from the group, but when people see a level 350 they wont do shit. gabyanotor went from like 50 to 350 in1 day therefor allowing him to to t 6 and therefore get gear faster, and therefore getting higher on the leaderboards. just because you think paragons dont mean a lot doesnt mean it deosnt affect other aspects of the game. also it gives a slight edge in greater rifts, anything below 800 is important in paragon, even as important as a piece of gear. 50% crit damage is the equivelant of a ring, 10% cooldown is the equievelent of a major part of an amulet. they might not be drastic but they do affect gameplay and leaderboards. thats like saying 250 primary stats and 50% crit damage, 10% crit, 10% cooldown, and 10% recource cost reduction, lots of life per hit mean nothing, if it means nothing then why is it on some of the most important pieces of gear in the game with about the same ammount oif stats?
Individual levels mean just short of jack. A whole lot of levels equate to an extra affix roll. There are 40 affix rolls on gear, 200 paragon levels equates to 4 more rolls, of varying effect. Realistically it's not a big enough difference to affect grand total rift standings at the end of the season. Hell even at an 800 point difference you're looking at roughly 2 gear slots of bonus, and I'm fairly certain nobody has an 800 level lead. Any lead less than 200 is for all intents and purposes meaningless in the short, and any lead at ll is meaningless in the long run for greater rift standings.
GRift level correlates for all intents and purposes exclusively with time played. Yes paragon can help. No it will not be the make-or-break value for the GRift leaderboard, that will be almost exclusively luck. Serious overestimation of what the sum total stats on paragon translate into post-200 or so.
I have sympathy that their epeen is hurting. But wanting bans over it is basically throwing a tantrum.
Throwing a tantrum? Really?
That's like saying that someone who advocates that Ray Rice does jail time is throwing a tantrum because Ray Rice didn't punch HIM/HER in the face. It just doesn't work that way. We have rules in life and in games for a reason. Wanting the rulemakers to follow through with the rules they've put in place isn't throwing a tantrum.
However, standing up for cheaters is surely the mark of a scumbag.
Actually I just happen to not give a shit. Ban them if it makes people feel better, but in the long run it's not going to make one whit of difference either way. Over here in the land of the normal people nobody actually cares.
Not feeling a ban is warranted =/= standing up for cheaters =/= feeling that measures should not be taken.
Simple fix is "no XP carryover this season, no snapshot paragon leaderboard". All problems solved, nobody gets an epeen they didn't earn and nobody gets banned. Funny thing is; banning your most dedicated customers is a BAD thing.
So they havent banned the people that exploited after the realms coming back up from maintenance, gabynator hit 300 levels in 2 hours and is still on streaming on his account also several others. i guess blizzard is sending a message loud and clear, its ok to exploit. im personally quitting season 1 after this joke and maybe even the game. see i like to compete and there is ALWAYS exploits, when a game company is saying its okay to do these expoits on a leaderboard then whats the point of playing legitly? also i encourage anyone else who was playing legitly and got a huge setback by this quitting until next season, not only because your at a huge disatvantage now but so blizzard can see the drop in numbers and know its not ok that people are getting away with this.
Thats blizzards theme fix the problem and hope the damage fixes itself and people turn the other way because they dont care about anything but money, and time fixing this is money wow is different because they make money on subs.
This post tells me you don't understand a lot of things. Let's go through them/your logic:
1: doesn't ban = action ok. Blizzard bans in large waves and they don't necessarily wait for realm maintenance. They also rarely do this immediately, except for extraordinary grievances. I suppose you might consider this such a grievance, but it isn't up to us to decide that.
2: why do people bring up the money point? Blizzard has SALARIED and HIRED employees who work on this game 40 hours a week. Blizzard loses money on this game if they cannot keep people enticed long enough for the next new thing (most likely an expansion). I also don't get the comparison between WoW and any other game, quite frankly. WoW should receive the most updates and be kept in line to the greatest extent. It has a lot more at stake not only in terms of income/money for Blizzard, but also for the players who take the game in a professional sense.
3: money, again. Blizzard is a corporation. The main goal of every corporation is to increase profit. Why do people talk about this and wonder in amazement about the fact that a COMPANY is trying to earn money. Would you complain if you earned less than you wanted at your job? You're damn right you would. Would you try to maximize your wage if you could? You're also damn right you would. Why are you complaining about a company when they try to do it? Makes little sense outside of the selfish perspective.
4: money one last time. Blizzard is a company that has integrity. Despite trying to maximize profits, they have always tried to do what the player base wanted. In D3 "vanilla", people complained about the lack of progression/worried about such a thing. They made sure that Inferno was hard and getting items/upgrades was not a simple or quick task. People complained about this even though they asked for it. Blizzard then made it easier to attain items. This process has occurred and developed since the beginning of this game; with Blizzard giving in to the demands of the player base to make THEIR game as close to what the large majority of the player base wants. This transformation of their game costs them time resources and has only been accomplished because the player base wanted it. I don't get why you think Blizzard is a power-hungry, only caring-about-money company. <- not very many gaming companies survive when they take this financial-centric approach.
5: there is still plenty of time to be competitive. Paragon levels matter, sure, but they're not going to destroy higher levels of greater rifts simply because they have one hundred paragon levels more than you.
its not just the fact that they cheated and got away with it. even if you dont think paragons matter. what about next time? when its a gear exploit. theyve shown time and time again they dont care about banning people that exploit, and my guess is if there was a gear exploit people STILL wouldn't be banned. gold was a huge deal and nobody got banned for the gold dupe, essentially you can reroll your gear all day long but no even that was ok. and in fact there was a gear exploit, people were making t 6 games on lvl 1 toons, switching toons, then clearing the t 6 rifts within 2 minutes for blood shards. guess what? nobody got banned. my point is blizzard has yet to show they will ban for anything at all. i bet it would be okay to even bot right to be honest and im sure you still wouldn't be banned. but i guess all of this okay to you guys, if your saying blizzard wants to please the customers, and the customers say its okay to exploit what do you think is gonna happen?
its not just the fact that they cheated and got away with it. even if you dont think paragons matter. what about next time? when its a gear exploit. theyve shown time and time again they dont care about banning people that exploit, and my guess is if there was a gear exploit people STILL wouldn't be banned. gold was a huge deal and nobody got banned for the gold dupe, essentially you can reroll your gear all day long but no even that was ok. and in fact there was a gear exploit, people were making t 6 games on lvl 1 toons, switching toons, then clearing the t 6 rifts within 2 minutes for blood shards. guess what? nobody got banned. my point is blizzard has yet to show they will ban for anything at all. i bet it would be okay to even bot right to be honest and im sure you still wouldn't be banned. but i guess all of this okay to you guys, if your saying blizzard wants to please the customers, and the customers say its okay to exploit what do you think is gonna happen?
Every time I've heard of gear exploits in D3 it was always in conjunction with exploiters being banned. Every time. Blizz has NEVER been soft on people who bypass that kind of stuff. Sure they might not have banned these exploiters, but that might be an internal decision based on the scope of the impact (essentially none). Gear exploits however have a much wider impact, and I doubt blizz would give out a free pass there.
they definitively did NOT ban people for gear exploits. there were several streamers who did the blood shard exploit including my friend and they never got banned and this was far before rift it forward. i have yet to see or hear blizz ban anyone on d 3 to be quite honest. its more of a we dont get paid enough for this shit, hopefully the people forget kind of thing. blizz has made it perfectly clear that they dont care about ANY exploits so my advice, if you cant compete because of an exploit either quit or join them. kind of sad but its true. i promise you one day you'll actually see how little blizz cares about cheating in d 3, its a non sub game and its extra effort to investigate and ban and thats not something they are willing to do.
very well said, this game is dying once again , mark my words ! soon people will realize this so called new feature "greater rift" isshit, Gr leaderboard is the topping to make it look good. Gr is a lazy job done by blizz, copy and paste normal rift, only differences are mobs no longer dropping stuff, and a ghost lady spawns at the end to upgrade gems or keystone. i heard ppl complain about RNG in Gr, and it is not rewarding at all. you do not practice to win ,you pray to win !
i was a wow player for 6 years, Wowers test their skills in PVP, raids. and it is fair, every raiding team gets same map ,same trash mobs, same bosses to compete
As all customers including you and I paid real money for the right to play the game, there will need to be solid evidence proving a person intended to exploit/cheat before banning them. What if a person claims they had no idea they had used an "exploit" and happened to standing in town whilst their mates were G-rifting and/or that they need regular toilet / cigarette breaks or some other plausible reasons. It's not that simple.
What would the impact be if unfair bans were reported in games magazines or even news papers. What if a rich kid's parents decide to make a big deal out of it ? Banning opens up a can of worms which Blizzard won't want to deal with because it will be costly. There will be alot of people screaming for their money back if not for blood.
The wisest thing they can do is fix all the bugs, exploits and make sure season 2 is clean. As for season 1, write it off as "PTR Phase 2
The wisest thing they can do is fix all the bugs, exploits and make sure season 2 is clean. As for season 1, write it off as "PTR Phase 2
Except that's completely unrealistic. A bug-free final product with a codebase of several million lines is just not possible. There will be bugs. Many of them will be obscure and go unnoticed during PTRs. This is how large pieces of code work.
What you're saying is that they should attempt to achieve something that is only doable in theory, not in practice.
They need pragmatic solutions, not theoretical solutions. Pragmatically, bugs will exist. Pragmatically, people will use those bugs to their advantage. It's just life. Trying to play it off as "code harder, get all the bugs" is so blissfully naive it's almost cute.
The wisest thing they can do is fix all the bugs, exploits and make sure season 2 is clean. As for season 1, write it off as "PTR Phase 2
Except that's completely unrealistic. A bug-free final product with a codebase of several million lines is just not possible. There will be bugs. Many of them will be obscure and go unnoticed during PTRs. This is how large pieces of code work.
What you're saying is that they should attempt to achieve something that is only doable in theory, not in practice.
They need pragmatic solutions, not theoretical solutions. Pragmatically, bugs will exist. Pragmatically, people will use those bugs to their advantage. It's just life. Trying to play it off as "code harder, get all the bugs" is so blissfully naive it's almost cute.
You are obviously have no insight into proper software development. There are many processes a company can put in place to find and fix bugs. It's what all the big software vendors to ensure they can deliver a 99.9% bug free product. Sure, one or two bugs will get through as there are so many environmental factors such as different PC builds, CPUs, GFX, sounds but most are caught within the first 2 iterations. Over 3 or 4, most are addressed.
If what you say is correct, every company that writes large applications will have lots of bugs. Is that the case ?
PS: Boeing 7XX aircraft control system has a few million lines of assembly code yet, no bugs. Google it if you think it's impossible
If what you say is correct, every company that writes large applications will have lots of bugs. Is that the case ?
PS: Boeing 7XX aircraft control system has a few million lines of assembly code yet, no bugs. Google it if you think it's impossible
Google turns up numerous cases of 7XX software failure. It's a straw man anyway. Bug-free code is possible, but it's impossible to prove it for non-trivial cases. It's also seriously expensive to develop even five-nines code, that goes triple when the target is a $60 game written for a 3rd-party OS running on a general purpose computer. Moreover, anyone who thinks that software should only be released once there are no known bugs clearly knows nothing about development, QA or project management.
Please, tell me more about this magical bug-free software.
Jesus fucking Christ. If AIRLINE CONTROL SOFTWARE has bugs, despite literally being responsible for people's lives, I'm not sure why you'd think a goddamned video game wouldn't have bugs.
It's like an intelligence vacuum around here lately.
Please, tell me more about this magical bug-free software.
Jesus fucking Christ. If AIRLINE CONTROL SOFTWARE has bugs, despite literally being responsible for people's lives, I'm not sure why you'd think a goddamned video game wouldn't have bugs.
Amen.
Being exposed to the actual result of "professional" development tends to cure people of that funny "bug-free" notion pretty quickly
They really needed to ban, or at least roll back, those people. I grind like 6-12 hours a day, I'm 450. People at already 600~700, sometimes higher who took advantage of this exploit. That's a pretty frigging huge advantage legitimately players really cant overcome for months,
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WD Season 8 https://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/finiar-1655/Kildare/84509816
Monk season 7 http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/finiar-1655/MojoJoJo/42225505
DH season 6 http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/finiar-1655/DeadShot/75655606
Angry Chicken http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/finiar-1655/WhoDoVooDoo/68187610
What? Me worry?
(stupid quoting messing up). Apparently I'm not human then because I just can't bring myself to care enough about paragon levels.
Paragon points aren't a significant enough source of stats to have a real affect on the sum total final leaderboards. Gea rand /timespent are far far more important for final rankings. Sine apparently legit people are hitting 400 paragon at the top end now, and past that point all additional levels are basically gravy with no real effect on total stats.
As far as rollover goes: Watch Blizz say "due to exploiting we will not be rolling over paragon experience at the end of this season".
Of course non-season has been rendered essentially non-competitive at this point with the introduction of seasons. And of course the only non-season leaderboard affected will be paragon level since non-season characters are already in near-or-total-BiS pieces among non-casual players. Hell the rollover will have even LESS effect on non-season than it does on season, since you can't even claim that the extra levels will have any legitimate affect on those characters compared to tehir current power level.
That's like saying that someone who advocates that Ray Rice does jail time is throwing a tantrum because Ray Rice didn't punch HIM/HER in the face. It just doesn't work that way. We have rules in life and in games for a reason. Wanting the rulemakers to follow through with the rules they've put in place isn't throwing a tantrum.
However, standing up for cheaters is surely the mark of a scumbag.
It's like in GTA when you start adding ammo and then spawning cars and eventually you can't enjoy the real game because why would you work for something when you can get instant gratification. The point that I start cheating is the time when I'm squeezing the last drops of fun from a game, so I pity people that are at that point, I'm loving earning every item and exp point. It's the culture of instant me-me-me gratification we have today, it's only beneficial on face value and is rotten at the core.
GRift level correlates for all intents and purposes exclusively with time played. Yes paragon can help. No it will not be the make-or-break value for the GRift leaderboard, that will be almost exclusively luck. Serious overestimation of what the sum total stats on paragon translate into post-200 or so.
Actually I just happen to not give a shit. Ban them if it makes people feel better, but in the long run it's not going to make one whit of difference either way. Over here in the land of the normal people nobody actually cares.
Not feeling a ban is warranted =/= standing up for cheaters =/= feeling that measures should not be taken.
Simple fix is "no XP carryover this season, no snapshot paragon leaderboard". All problems solved, nobody gets an epeen they didn't earn and nobody gets banned. Funny thing is; banning your most dedicated customers is a BAD thing.
1: doesn't ban = action ok. Blizzard bans in large waves and they don't necessarily wait for realm maintenance. They also rarely do this immediately, except for extraordinary grievances. I suppose you might consider this such a grievance, but it isn't up to us to decide that.
2: why do people bring up the money point? Blizzard has SALARIED and HIRED employees who work on this game 40 hours a week. Blizzard loses money on this game if they cannot keep people enticed long enough for the next new thing (most likely an expansion). I also don't get the comparison between WoW and any other game, quite frankly. WoW should receive the most updates and be kept in line to the greatest extent. It has a lot more at stake not only in terms of income/money for Blizzard, but also for the players who take the game in a professional sense.
3: money, again. Blizzard is a corporation. The main goal of every corporation is to increase profit. Why do people talk about this and wonder in amazement about the fact that a COMPANY is trying to earn money. Would you complain if you earned less than you wanted at your job? You're damn right you would. Would you try to maximize your wage if you could? You're also damn right you would. Why are you complaining about a company when they try to do it? Makes little sense outside of the selfish perspective.
4: money one last time. Blizzard is a company that has integrity. Despite trying to maximize profits, they have always tried to do what the player base wanted. In D3 "vanilla", people complained about the lack of progression/worried about such a thing. They made sure that Inferno was hard and getting items/upgrades was not a simple or quick task. People complained about this even though they asked for it. Blizzard then made it easier to attain items. This process has occurred and developed since the beginning of this game; with Blizzard giving in to the demands of the player base to make THEIR game as close to what the large majority of the player base wants. This transformation of their game costs them time resources and has only been accomplished because the player base wanted it. I don't get why you think Blizzard is a power-hungry, only caring-about-money company. <- not very many gaming companies survive when they take this financial-centric approach.
5: there is still plenty of time to be competitive. Paragon levels matter, sure, but they're not going to destroy higher levels of greater rifts simply because they have one hundred paragon levels more than you.
i was a wow player for 6 years, Wowers test their skills in PVP, raids. and it is fair, every raiding team gets same map ,same trash mobs, same bosses to compete
What would the impact be if unfair bans were reported in games magazines or even news papers. What if a rich kid's parents decide to make a big deal out of it ? Banning opens up a can of worms which Blizzard won't want to deal with because it will be costly. There will be alot of people screaming for their money back if not for blood.
The wisest thing they can do is fix all the bugs, exploits and make sure season 2 is clean. As for season 1, write it off as "PTR Phase 2
The best thing to do is not to play it to think you will win or be competitive in it. Just play it if you are having fun playing seasons.
What you're saying is that they should attempt to achieve something that is only doable in theory, not in practice.
They need pragmatic solutions, not theoretical solutions. Pragmatically, bugs will exist. Pragmatically, people will use those bugs to their advantage. It's just life. Trying to play it off as "code harder, get all the bugs" is so blissfully naive it's almost cute.
If what you say is correct, every company that writes large applications will have lots of bugs. Is that the case ?
PS: Boeing 7XX aircraft control system has a few million lines of assembly code yet, no bugs. Google it if you think it's impossible
Google turns up numerous cases of 7XX software failure. It's a straw man anyway. Bug-free code is possible, but it's impossible to prove it for non-trivial cases. It's also seriously expensive to develop even five-nines code, that goes triple when the target is a $60 game written for a 3rd-party OS running on a general purpose computer. Moreover, anyone who thinks that software should only be released once there are no known bugs clearly knows nothing about development, QA or project management.
http://www.npr.org/2014/02/25/282431939/boeings-787-dreamliner-can-t-shake-major-malfunction-issues
http://www.businessinsider.com/r-us-faa-tells-boeing-to-fix-747-8-software-to-avoid-crash-2014-26
Please, tell me more about this magical bug-free software.
Jesus fucking Christ. If AIRLINE CONTROL SOFTWARE has bugs, despite literally being responsible for people's lives, I'm not sure why you'd think a goddamned video game wouldn't have bugs.
It's like an intelligence vacuum around here lately.
Being exposed to the actual result of "professional" development tends to cure people of that funny "bug-free" notion pretty quickly
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Taliesyn-2517/hero/66020932