yes please blizz. do not give us fresh new legs and do not give us seasons. keep everything as is so i can be bored in no time.
The thought of starting all over again to hunt for new exciting legs (just like everyone else is going to have to do) sounds EXTREMELY lame and idiotic.
seriously tho, what a ridiculous argument this is to think blizz is FORCING you to play ladders. damn right force me to play ladders, i say, for these new legs. The idea of constantly having a fresh start with new items in ladder only is the ONLY way this game will survive.
I think there's many ways to add longevity to the game besides erasing your progress every 6 months. PvP, Tiered rifts and many other competitive avenues would suffice for many. Myself, I play HC almost exclusively, so the prospect of Ladders seems intriguing. I'll likely get in on ladders here and there, but ONLY because of the items.
PS: If ladders were actually fun, they wouldn't need incentive to get people to play them.
PS part 2: When half you post is sarcasm, it's hard to take you seriously at all.
sarcasm was intended. As for being taking seriously, I never am because i don't know what i am talking about most of the time and have hard time putting words to paper. All I know is what is fun for me. And I have had EXTREME fun when D2 ladders always reset (was never any new items when they did reset) even to this day when they reset ladders in d2 I go over and start a new toon. Mark my words. This is the best thing that can happen to this game. you will get great enjoyment and have a blast starting new toons with yourself or with friends.
Who is the loser in the scenario of introducing these new legendaries in seasons, as well as non-seasons? You will still have your choice to play seasons if you actually want to, right? What more incentive than "I want to play seasons because I like the idea of this game mode" do you need? If this is not enough incentive in itself, clearly it's not your preferred game mode?
Thats what Im trying to say. If you want to play seasonal/ladder games, you will play them because you want to. I dont think its reasonable for someone to be like, "oh god i really want to get item 'x'. i HAVE to play ladders, even though i dont want to". Just seems foolish to me.
the incentive for playing ladders/seasons should be competition. that's it. if any other "incentive" is needed to make ppl want to play that mode, that isn't a choice anymore.
look at what's happened in the game so far. blizzard only wants you to rift. to that extent everything other than rifts doesn't feel as rewarding. do you get 100% buff anywhere else? (other than anniversary buff atm...) no you don't. so what does that mean if i want more legendaries? I HAVE to rift. I can't farm anything else as efficiently.
diablo is about items. no one cares what your skills are, what character you play, or even what paragon level you are. all of those don't matter. a paragon lvl 0 character can out perform a paragon lvl 1000 charc if the paragon lvl 0 charc had all BIS items.
season only items just makes this like diablo 2 again...lets all play ladder for those BIS items. cause let's face it...90% of d2 ladder was farming ladder only rune words. most ppl didn't give a shit about getting to 99 1st.
IF ladders come the way they are currently being talked about I will be sorely dissappointed. The point of the ladder is to challenge you to be first, in leveling, in T6 clearing, in diablo hardcore kills and whatever. It is NOT however meant to be MAIN game. I shouldn't have to play a mode that erases my progress so I can get an Item to then use on my non ladder characters. That's just idiotic to me. They could have done so much more to add competition. Not this Ladder crap. I really hope they rethink this. It's not a good way to implement the seasons. If they add legendaries as rewards they should be for stuff everyone can do; A global event, maybe a new secret level, something of that nature. But it can't be exclusive to a game mode. That's a big no-no you exclude part of your player base for not playing in a certain way? What kind of game is that. I thought we were supposed to play how we want?
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Not even Death will save you from Diablo Bunny's Cuteness!
To be forced in this case means you have no other option. If you want the most powerful items and this is how ladders are setup, you are forced to play ladders to have the best items. Does anyone not agree the game is basically 100% about getting stronger items? If there is a logical argument against that statement please share, I am willing to listen. So the game is about getting stronger items...and the strongest items are ONLY going to drop in ladder mode...if you want the strongest items (who doesn't) how are you not forced to play ladders?
No, a blizzard employee doesn't come to my house with a gun and tell me to play ladders or else...but in the sense that we are all playing a game that is 100% about loot and ladders are where you get the best loot, you are forced...seems to be pretty clear to me. The only choice we are making is to play a loot game and do whatever we can to get the best loot as fast as possible, regardless of time spent in-game. If there is only one choice for getting the top items that is the definition of being forced...I can probably think of 10 other ways to say the same thing, but I really don't see how people can keep typing that this isn't forcing you...http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/forced definition #4 - "Required by circumstances"...
Are you forced to kill Maghda if you want to get the drop that's specific to her so that you can craft an item with it? Yes.
Are you forced to play ladders if you want to get the drop that's specific to them so that you can use it? Yes.
There *is* a problem with the "if you want X item, then you must play on a certain game mode" mentality. Most of my friends heard about ladder-specific items and said "well I guess I'll be finding a new game to play when that happens" because they want NOTHING to do with ladders. So, while people like you continue to plug your ears and act like there's not a problem, there *is* a problem because there are enough people who simply don't want anything to do with this system.
I support your desire to play ladders. It's sad to see that you don't support others desire NOT to play ladders by continuing to tell us that we have a "choice" in the matter. What choice do I have? I can either play a game mode I don't like or I can have access to less items. This is a game, I shouldn't be actively picking between two options both of which are bad options for me. That's not a choice. That's being forced to swallow a bitter pill.
EDIT
It's a mistake for the same reason making rifts the "best" way to play is a mistake. We need less "best" ways to play and we need a game that actively supports the player doing what he/she wants (within reason). For months we were told that they disliked how D2 devolved into farming a very narrow amount of monsters. And then RoS goes and not only doubles down on that, but redoubles and redoubles again.
If they go through with this then they're just adding another layer to their definition of the "right" way to play the game. Frankly I can't believe that people have trouble seeing why that's bad.
It seems that people will have their opinion about it but that by far does no mean you are right. And to say your going to find a dif game to play if they do this or of they do that is childish.
It seems that people will have their opinion about it but that by far does no mean you are right. And to say your going to find a dif game to play if they do this or of they do that is childish.
No, It's free will and capitalism. And to say "well, you should wait and see first". True, but most have already done the ladder Rodeo and I haven't heard anything radically different on it yet.
Are you forced to kill Maghda if you want to get the drop that's specific to her so that you can craft an item with it? Yes.
Are you forced to play ladders if you want to get the drop that's specific to them so that you can use it? Yes.
There *is* a problem with the "if you want X item, then you must play on a certain game mode" mentality. Most of my friends heard about ladder-specific items and said "well I guess I'll be finding a new game to play when that happens" because they want NOTHING to do with ladders. So, while people like you continue to plug your ears and act like there's not a problem, there *is* a problem because there are enough people who simply don't want anything to do with this system.
I support your desire to play ladders. It's sad to see that you don't support others desire NOT to play ladders by continuing to tell us that we have a "choice" in the matter. What choice do I have? I can either play a game mode I don't like or I can have access to less items. This is a game, I shouldn't be actively picking between two options both of which are bad options for me. That's not a choice. That's being forced to swallow a bitter pill.
EDIT
It's a mistake for the same reason making rifts the "best" way to play is a mistake. We need less "best" ways to play and we need a game that actively supports the player doing what he/she wants (within reason). For months we were told that they disliked how D2 devolved into farming a very narrow amount of monsters. And then RoS goes and not only doubles down on that, but redoubles and redoubles again.
If they go through with this then they're just adding another layer to their definition of the "right" way to play the game. Frankly I can't believe that people have trouble seeing why that's bad.
Sorry that you're opinion and mine differ Shaggy.
For me, I work full time Monday-Friday. 12 hours a day.
I come home and enjoy playing the game, which I do.
I just don't think you all need to be so "concerned" with what is to come, without even being able to test it just yet.
Also I did say that I don't mind you guys thinking that this is a forced thing, its you're opinion.
To me, I just don't care, as long the game is fun.
Also I never get into these huge debates/discussions about these kind of problems, as we have much more serious things in real life happening.
I am just glad I don't have to play Diablo 3 vanilla and have to pay to win.
Although I am also a simple man, who enjoys simple things in life.
Just regardless I do think some of you are taking it a bit over the top.
Try it out, give proper feedback, and most of all...just enjoy yourself.
The biggest thing is this, the items will be pulled into normal mode, that's fine with me.
On the other hand, I wouldn't mind exclusive rewards for season-play in the form of pets, wings, banners, whatever. Those are not game-changing or game-defining items.
The only problem I see is if the incentive is "This is where the game-changing new content is, this is where the real Diablo 3 happens, and if you dont play seasons, you are pretty much playing an old version of the game." That's not incentive, that's forcing.
qft
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Those Who Do Not Know True Pain Cannot Possibly Understand True Peace...
To me, I just don't care, as long the game is fun.
But that's the problem in a nutshell. A lot of us have been down this road before in D2. We understand what ladders are. We understand the ramifications of ladder-only loot.
We didn't enjoy it in D2, therefore, it stands to reason that it will be another knock to our enjoyment of D3. We want to have fun but we have very good reason to believe that this is going to diminish our fun instead of enhancing it.
And 90 of the people who are diddicatet to ladder are going to restart ladder with the new season.
So since 90 people want to actually play ladder for a reset, the other 5.99 million should wait until they've had their fun to have even a CHANCE to find new items?
Give it a break. Release them in both modes. Go reset to you heart's content if that's what you actually care about.
There is not a single argument from ladder only supporters that doesn't boil down to "I have the time to reset and grow my e-peen, so I should be given privledged rights to new items."
I'm not a huge fan of this staggered content. If you don't play ladders you have to wait until it ends in order to have the option to find new gear. Who knows how long ladders will last. I wouldn't mind there being exclusive cosmetic rewards for ladders such as paragon profiles, banners, and transmogrify gear. I think new legendary items should be game wide. If they really want people to play ladders and give them a reason to, besides bragging rights, make it so the new legendary items have a higher chance to drop in the season.
I don't hear it talked about enough, but I think one of the big negatives to season-only legendaries is the state of current non-season legenadaries. While every revamp of the legendaries (1.0.4? and 2.0.1) has made them better and more interesting, I still think blizzard has a long way to go. Those current legendaries with compelling orange affixes are *really* compelling and those without it are just a yawn. And even things like legendary weapons with plus to elemental damage can be a huge upgrade versus equivalent legendaries without the +element.
I'll use an example. I don't play Monk but I see streamers using lightning monk. For lightning monk, a well rolled Thunderfury, SoH, WKL, Fuminator, or OS all seem decently viable. Sure, certain ones are clearly better, but they all seem to be a substantial upgrade over a "perfect" yellow or some other vanilla legandary 1-hander. Adding another 1H lightning weapon to season play is going to be disappointing nonseason players, but nonseason players still have 5 other weapons to search after. But if we contrast that to say, a condemn crusader, your far and away best option is Blade of Prophecy. If season legendaries include another condemn-focused weapon, the nonseason player is loosing out of half the viable legendaries for that build.
To me, gear progression should have 3 steps after hitting 70: 1) Find the best yellows possible 2) find one of 3~6 (or more) focused legendaries per slot that are viable/compelling 3) Replace legendaries with more perfected rolled ones or alternatives that are slightly better. It should not be 2) Find mediocre or even poor rolled Blade of Prophecy because it's still better than perfect rolled alternatives. IMO, getting good stat rolls should trump getting a specific item.
In summary, I feel there are too many instances where I want item X regardless of roll instead of the better situation where I want one of item list {X, Y, Z, A} with a good roll. And season legendaries setup like the current legendaries we have now will only make it worse.
So the order of the day for this subject is fallacy-filled analogies? This thread seems to be full of them, despite the extensive explanations preceding them. Allow me to present mine as well.
Let's do the following experiment. Make a game mode that costs 50 dollars a day to play, and it will drop the best items in the game, new legendaries and sets. Or a more realistic scenario, let's make seasons have a 50 dollar monthly fee.
Suddenly these guys saying nobody is forced to play ladder have their pitchforks up against that idea. "Oh, it's not fair... why should I be excluded from a certain game mode or gameplay experience because I'm not a stupid rich guy who can waste that kind of money". What? You don't want to spend your money on that? Your problem, nobody is forcing you into anything. It's your "choice" as well. But hey, if it involves money then people who are worried with "pay to win" just go bonkers.
It's a similar situation, just from a different perspective - people who are against exclusive items for seasons have limited time and patience when it comes to "starting fresh". They don't care about competing, or don't want to log-in to see a level 1 character and spend 100+ hours just getting that character to a point where the gameplay gets more interesting. To these, being given the middle finger for not wanting to waste their whole free time playing one game redoing everything they've done before, is a big issue - and will kill the game for them.
The more I read the arguments in favor of such idea, the more I feel exclusive legs/sets are about e-peen and showing off. People just want something to make them feel like a special snowflake for choosing to play the game instead of doing other things, either in gaming or in real life. And that's such a fucked up mentality from modern gamers (which you usually see from streamers and "hardcore" players).
To me, I just don't care, as long the game is fun.
But that's the problem in a nutshell. A lot of us have been down this road before in D2. We understand what ladders are. We understand the ramifications of ladder-only loot.
We didn't enjoy it in D2, therefore, it stands to reason that it will be another knock to our enjoyment of D3. We want to have fun but we have very good reason to believe that this is going to diminish our fun instead of enhancing it.
Um there was no ladder only loot in D2. When we had ladder reset you can get the exact same items in non ladder. And who is this "WE" that didn't enjoy ladders in D2? everyone I knew loved ladder resets. and a heck of a lot of people only came back to D2 when the ladder DID reset.
Um there was no ladder only loot in D2. When we had ladder reset you can get the exact same items in non ladder. And who is this "WE" that didn't enjoy ladders in D2? everyone I knew loved ladder resets. and a heck of a lot of people only came back to D2 when the ladder DID reset.
I don't know how you long played D2 for, but this is absolutely false. There was ALOT of ladder only items and ladder only runewords. Sure once the ladder season was over the gear got converted to non-ladder, but NEVER could you find ladder only items playing non-ladder. Unless of course that has changed in the last 2 years, but I highly doubt it.
Um there was no ladder only loot in D2. When we had ladder reset you can get the exact same items in non ladder. And who is this "WE" that didn't enjoy ladders in D2? everyone I knew loved ladder resets. and a heck of a lot of people only came back to D2 when the ladder DID reset.
I don't know how you long played D2 for, but this is absolutely false. There was ALOT of ladder only items and ladder only runewords. Sure once the ladder season was over the gear got converted to non-ladder, but NEVER could you find ladder only items playing non-ladder. Unless of course that has changed in the last 2 years, but I highly doubt it.
I have played D2 since the first year it was released. I did not play much LOD but stayed in HCCL (LOD was to easy) And no there was not ladder only items. Like I said. When the ladder did reset there was nothing new. same items in ladder as in non ladder. no idea what your talking about.
EDIT: In d2 I went back in every single ladder reset. so again I have no idea what you talking about. same items everywhere. nothing new.
Um there was no ladder only loot in D2. When we had ladder reset you can get the exact same items in non ladder. And who is this "WE" that didn't enjoy ladders in D2? everyone I knew loved ladder resets. and a heck of a lot of people only came back to D2 when the ladder DID reset.
I don't know how you long played D2 for, but this is absolutely false. There was ALOT of ladder only items and ladder only runewords. Sure once the ladder season was over the gear got converted to non-ladder, but NEVER could you find ladder only items playing non-ladder. Unless of course that has changed in the last 2 years, but I highly doubt it.
I have played D2 since the first year it was released. I did not play much LOD but stayed in HCCL (LOD was to easy) And no there was not ladder only items. Like I said. When the ladder did reset there was nothing new. same items in ladder as in non ladder. no idea what your talking about.
EDIT: Site I found was LOD, forgot there were no Druids in original!
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Time2Kill-1230/hero/23330792
look at what's happened in the game so far. blizzard only wants you to rift. to that extent everything other than rifts doesn't feel as rewarding. do you get 100% buff anywhere else? (other than anniversary buff atm...) no you don't. so what does that mean if i want more legendaries? I HAVE to rift. I can't farm anything else as efficiently.
diablo is about items. no one cares what your skills are, what character you play, or even what paragon level you are. all of those don't matter. a paragon lvl 0 character can out perform a paragon lvl 1000 charc if the paragon lvl 0 charc had all BIS items.
season only items just makes this like diablo 2 again...lets all play ladder for those BIS items. cause let's face it...90% of d2 ladder was farming ladder only rune words. most ppl didn't give a shit about getting to 99 1st.
No one forces you to do anything...LOL!
You CHOOSE to play the ladders.
You CHOOSE to wait or go for the new legendaries.
There's no forcing you to do anything. None. Absolutely zero.
When you play Diablo 3, are you FORCED by any means to do something by force? No.
Are you forced to do only adventure mode? No.
Are you forced to do HC mode? No.
Are you forced to play with a certain group? No.
Are you forced to only kill elites for legendaries? No.
There's options, there's choices, choices you make.
I understand you're concern, and I understand that you feel like its not right or fair, I respect you're opinion but your not forced.
No, a blizzard employee doesn't come to my house with a gun and tell me to play ladders or else...but in the sense that we are all playing a game that is 100% about loot and ladders are where you get the best loot, you are forced...seems to be pretty clear to me. The only choice we are making is to play a loot game and do whatever we can to get the best loot as fast as possible, regardless of time spent in-game. If there is only one choice for getting the top items that is the definition of being forced...I can probably think of 10 other ways to say the same thing, but I really don't see how people can keep typing that this isn't forcing you...http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/forced definition #4 - "Required by circumstances"...
Are you forced to kill Maghda if you want to get the drop that's specific to her so that you can craft an item with it? Yes.
Are you forced to play ladders if you want to get the drop that's specific to them so that you can use it? Yes.
There *is* a problem with the "if you want X item, then you must play on a certain game mode" mentality. Most of my friends heard about ladder-specific items and said "well I guess I'll be finding a new game to play when that happens" because they want NOTHING to do with ladders. So, while people like you continue to plug your ears and act like there's not a problem, there *is* a problem because there are enough people who simply don't want anything to do with this system.
I support your desire to play ladders. It's sad to see that you don't support others desire NOT to play ladders by continuing to tell us that we have a "choice" in the matter. What choice do I have? I can either play a game mode I don't like or I can have access to less items. This is a game, I shouldn't be actively picking between two options both of which are bad options for me. That's not a choice. That's being forced to swallow a bitter pill.
EDIT
It's a mistake for the same reason making rifts the "best" way to play is a mistake. We need less "best" ways to play and we need a game that actively supports the player doing what he/she wants (within reason). For months we were told that they disliked how D2 devolved into farming a very narrow amount of monsters. And then RoS goes and not only doubles down on that, but redoubles and redoubles again.
If they go through with this then they're just adding another layer to their definition of the "right" way to play the game. Frankly I can't believe that people have trouble seeing why that's bad.
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Time2Kill-1230/hero/23330792
Vote with your wallet.
WD Season 8 https://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/finiar-1655/Kildare/84509816
Monk season 7 http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/finiar-1655/MojoJoJo/42225505
DH season 6 http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/finiar-1655/DeadShot/75655606
Angry Chicken http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/finiar-1655/WhoDoVooDoo/68187610
What? Me worry?
For me, I work full time Monday-Friday. 12 hours a day.
I come home and enjoy playing the game, which I do.
I just don't think you all need to be so "concerned" with what is to come, without even being able to test it just yet.
Also I did say that I don't mind you guys thinking that this is a forced thing, its you're opinion.
To me, I just don't care, as long the game is fun.
Also I never get into these huge debates/discussions about these kind of problems, as we have much more serious things in real life happening.
I am just glad I don't have to play Diablo 3 vanilla and have to pay to win.
Although I am also a simple man, who enjoys simple things in life.
Just regardless I do think some of you are taking it a bit over the top.
Try it out, give proper feedback, and most of all...just enjoy yourself.
The biggest thing is this, the items will be pulled into normal mode, that's fine with me.
Those Who Do Not Know True Pain Cannot Possibly Understand True Peace...
We didn't enjoy it in D2, therefore, it stands to reason that it will be another knock to our enjoyment of D3. We want to have fun but we have very good reason to believe that this is going to diminish our fun instead of enhancing it.
Give it a break. Release them in both modes. Go reset to you heart's content if that's what you actually care about.
There is not a single argument from ladder only supporters that doesn't boil down to "I have the time to reset and grow my e-peen, so I should be given privledged rights to new items."
I'll use an example. I don't play Monk but I see streamers using lightning monk. For lightning monk, a well rolled Thunderfury, SoH, WKL, Fuminator, or OS all seem decently viable. Sure, certain ones are clearly better, but they all seem to be a substantial upgrade over a "perfect" yellow or some other vanilla legandary 1-hander. Adding another 1H lightning weapon to season play is going to be disappointing nonseason players, but nonseason players still have 5 other weapons to search after. But if we contrast that to say, a condemn crusader, your far and away best option is Blade of Prophecy. If season legendaries include another condemn-focused weapon, the nonseason player is loosing out of half the viable legendaries for that build.
To me, gear progression should have 3 steps after hitting 70: 1) Find the best yellows possible 2) find one of 3~6 (or more) focused legendaries per slot that are viable/compelling 3) Replace legendaries with more perfected rolled ones or alternatives that are slightly better. It should not be 2) Find mediocre or even poor rolled Blade of Prophecy because it's still better than perfect rolled alternatives. IMO, getting good stat rolls should trump getting a specific item.
In summary, I feel there are too many instances where I want item X regardless of roll instead of the better situation where I want one of item list {X, Y, Z, A} with a good roll. And season legendaries setup like the current legendaries we have now will only make it worse.
So the order of the day for this subject is fallacy-filled analogies? This thread seems to be full of them, despite the extensive explanations preceding them. Allow me to present mine as well.
Let's do the following experiment. Make a game mode that costs 50 dollars a day to play, and it will drop the best items in the game, new legendaries and sets. Or a more realistic scenario, let's make seasons have a 50 dollar monthly fee.
Suddenly these guys saying nobody is forced to play ladder have their pitchforks up against that idea. "Oh, it's not fair... why should I be excluded from a certain game mode or gameplay experience because I'm not a stupid rich guy who can waste that kind of money". What? You don't want to spend your money on that? Your problem, nobody is forcing you into anything. It's your "choice" as well. But hey, if it involves money then people who are worried with "pay to win" just go bonkers.
It's a similar situation, just from a different perspective - people who are against exclusive items for seasons have limited time and patience when it comes to "starting fresh". They don't care about competing, or don't want to log-in to see a level 1 character and spend 100+ hours just getting that character to a point where the gameplay gets more interesting. To these, being given the middle finger for not wanting to waste their whole free time playing one game redoing everything they've done before, is a big issue - and will kill the game for them.
The more I read the arguments in favor of such idea, the more I feel exclusive legs/sets are about e-peen and showing off. People just want something to make them feel like a special snowflake for choosing to play the game instead of doing other things, either in gaming or in real life. And that's such a fucked up mentality from modern gamers (which you usually see from streamers and "hardcore" players).
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Time2Kill-1230/hero/23330792
EDIT: In d2 I went back in every single ladder reset. so again I have no idea what you talking about. same items everywhere. nothing new.
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Time2Kill-1230/hero/23330792