In addition to the point made above about these reviews being horrificly outdated, you've got some serious self-selection bias going on here. In no way can anyone claim that Metacritic user reviews are representative of the total population when its a well-established and entirely obvious trend that malcontents are far more likely to ragegasm all over a review site than people who are at best happy, and are at worst "casually entertained" by a game.
On Kripp and Alkaiser: take their ramblings with a massive grain of salt. Not only are they self-aggrandized "elitists" who aren't representative of anything resembling a substantial volume of the player-base, but videos like this are entirely self-serving. They made their money off of D3; now they want as many eyeballs on PoE as they can muster so their viewership will increase. When the groundswell for that game inevitably runs its course, they want something fresh in D3 to crawl back to, just in case there's no new Flavor that Month.
Coincidentally, Kripp made a name for himself during Wrath of the Lich King (WoW's 3.0 expansion), when the game was arguably at the peak of its "casualization". All of the complaints about simplification, lack of challenge, destruction of social atmosphere, etc. stemmed from systems put in place during Wrath. Not only did he milk that cashcow for the entire expansion, he's continued doing so for two more expansions that have done little to move away from this design philosophy. I don't understand how anyone can take him seriously.
Also, just to add: I really enjoy D3. I've played it fairly consistently since release, with a month off here and there. I played D2 the same way for a decade; a few months here, a few months there. Most of the complaints I've read can simply be summed up as difference-of-opinion (I really enjoy the atmosphere, for example) but I, like everyone else, recognizes that there's still room for growth here. If genuinely enjoying a game makes me a fanboy, then so be it.
I typed a big giant response to this but I backspaced because it's not even worth it. I feel bad for people who blindly follow this vlogger craze.
Can't stand any of these people. Just like Blizzard, these vloggers do it for the money. Oh I know, playing $60 for a video game is such a horrible thing - so is buying music and movies. It should all just be free because my money is just so precious. #neweconomy
What intrigued me about the banter that Kripp and Alk were batting back and forth was the almost passive, under their breath mention that Diablo 3 is "salvageable".
"Salvageable"....?.....
We have millions of people still playing this game, MANY that will defend it tooth and nail because......SURPRISE...they actually enjoy it.
And how many of those are in Asia and how many are from Asia and how many are bots ?
Yet Alk and Kripp declare it dead, suggesting only that certain aspects be torn from the scrap heap and hopefully the game is remade within their purview.
Yes. From the point of view of the Hardcore player and the player that wants a challenge and/or replay value, yes the game is dead for them.
Yet these two kings of streams felt it necessary to besmirch anyone whom enjoys the game beyond viewing it as a scrap heap, by calling them "WoW Fanboys" and "casuals". Obviously both terms being applied with a derogatory intent.
You are an ignorant fool ! There are atleast a 3rd and a 4th person in that Mumble chat. Kripp and Alkaizer are not the only ones talking in that video !
Compared to them you are a "casual" and from the way you defend D3 in your post you are clearly a "fanboy".
THIS....this is why so many people are wearing out their middle fingers while watching their arrogant commentary. I have issues with D3 myself, but I do enjoy it. I have played the shit out of it. I will continue to enjoy it as it grows. I will support it, not because I'm blind or a shit gamer. Because I liked it enough to play for 1k hours, obviously there's something to it (for me).
They might sound arrogant to you, but they are right on their part on what they are saying. And surprise, surprise, noone cares if you like the game ! But lots of people care if and more importantly WHY Kripparrian and Alkaizer don't like D3 as much as they used to months ago.
As to the last part and your arguments on the previews pages that they are sellouts and all that shit-talk you said, I don't have to mention my reply "right back to you", as it is implied.
Other points on what was said on previews posts:
The video is not a 1on1 talk, there are more persons that were in Mumble chat that are talking.
You don't need to work for Blizzard to have a genuine and right opinion on D3's failures. There are people working on D3 that hate the upper management for what D3 has become.
Alkaizer is not a streamer.
Kripp never implied he invented certain builds, Alkaizer never mentioned he invented certain runs. The community "named" and gave them the credit for those.
The video with Moldran was an 1st April fools joke.
D3 fucking needs fixing "yesterday", not in 1 year. We don't even have the promised PvP ffs and we all hope for the Expansion and the itemization patch and hell knows what. Lets be honest , all we do is hope and being optimistic.
He is a fanboy of the game. Guess that is what we all could be called for liking the game. Better that though than to be considered a fanboy of a couple of arrogant gamers like Alk and Kripp. You seem to want to defend them pretty badly despite their arrogant rants of a game they both played a ton and gained a ton of cash from. Silly if you ask me. 3 million unique IPs playing D3 each month, yeah, I bet the bots make up maybe 1% of that but much like your argument, there are no facts to back that claim up.
I hope that most of you are trolling and arguing just because you are bored, otherwise, if you are taking 2 no-lifers and this game really so serious, I feel sorry for most of you.
I'm surprised this thread is still open. It will degenerate in a flamefest soon, if it's not already.
All i can say is: "Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one". Do you want to smell mine? Here it goes.
I didn't watch the vid, but one thing is sure: Kripp and Alk are streamers and they need viewers. Now they are playing PoE, so they need to exalt that game and ridiculize their competitor, aka Diablo 3. Fun fact, i never heard of these so famous streamers before Diablo 3 (as someone noted, Kripp was playing in WotlK, if i'm not mistaken, in Exodus... oh hi Yogg 0 exploit and ban); they made their share of money from streaming with D3 and RMAH and then dumped it. Kripp played some GW2 after because it was the next cool thing to play, now it's PoE.
In the end: these guys aren't E-Sport players, so they will change games when the market and general interest tell so, they need to keep up with fresh content to keep their viewers and ad renevue, so don't blindy follow some net celebrity to make an opinion for yourself, but use a bit of your brain.
Ps. I find hilarious that Female Barb avatar on Kripp's stream after talking shit of D3.
All this to say: yes, they got the combat right, but, to me, combat is the least important of the important things. Combat won't hold me on to a game. Hell, there are games out there with better combat systems, why aren't we playing them?
I really hate to say this because I think you're an intelligent person even though you seem to land on the other side of the fence from me...
Stop living in the past. You sound like my grandfather talking about how he walked to school with no soles in his shoes. Just because something worked a decade ago doesn't mean that's how it should work today. The world changes. The landscape of gaming changes. What was good then probably isn't good today because the circumstances today are not the same as they were back then.
In 1999 the hot MMORPG was EverQuest. EQ is a prime example of how things change. EQ didn't keep up with the times (hell, EQ2 didn't keep up with the times) and now it's fallen into complete nostalgia. WoW gave the players what they wanted - it took away 10+ hour camps for monsters, it emphasized questing (oddly enough EQ had very little to offer in that department), it put all relevant content in instances so that people could win based on skill and not based on how much time they spent awake waiting for a boss to spawn.
EQ was great because it had no competition - you couldn't get most EQ players to go back nowadays. D2 had no competition in the ARPG market until TitanQuest, really, and that was seven years later (six years after LoD). Darkstone may have been considered a competitor, but Darkstone was much closer to a D1 clone than a D2 competitor (the devs of Darkstone freely admitted they were heavily inspired by D1). Darkstone also received fairly mixed reviews.
The point is that good combat probably DID matter, but we had no choice but to accept it because... wtf else were we going to play in the ARPG market? If you disliked parts of D2 but wanted to play an ARPG you had one choice: STFU and deal with it.
That doesn't work nowadays. I'm not saying D2 was bad, because it was *anything* but bad. But I am saying this overly-nostalgic perspective where people refuse to acknowledge that the gaming market and, more importantly, the gamers, are not the same beast that they were in 1999 is nothing short of being thickheaded for the sake of starting an argument. It reeks of outright ignorance of how things evolve. Just because YOU don't want to evolve doesn't really have any bearing on the fact that the world is evolving around you.
I mean we should all reject smartphones too because land line phones are old and they worked and there's no reason to ever touch that formula right? Clinging onto the past like a safety blanket for no reason is stupid and doesn't actually bring anything to the discussion. Being so brutally regressive is just silly. It doesn't do anything to foster the series moving forward if all you're going to do is opine for the past.
Can we move this to another thread and/ or change the title. Krip and Alk make me throw up in my mouth everytime i see this thread title... we have moved on from these d-bag surpremes ... MODS help
Re: Diablo combat:
That's absolute bullcrap. You're changing for the sake of changing, or, better yet, you're changing the bad but leaving the worst instead of keeping the good and changing the bad. You're trying to cure the cold when your appendix is about to burst.
So yeah, curing the cold is good (getting it mostly right on the combat system), but shouldn't that appendix (itemisation and related systems) get some attention first and foremost?
Except you're making the COMPLETELY WRONG assumption that you cannot cure the cold and have your appendix removed at the same time and that they both take the same time and effort to fix.
Blizzard can, and does, work on multiple projects at the same time and not every project takes the same amount of time. Itemization is CLEARLY a difficult topic that requires a lot of time to come up with a good solution. Fixing monster density, by comparison, doesn't take nearly as much development time. Adding in ID All and Craft All doesn't take weeks and months of time in the meeting room.
I agree that I want itemization fixed and that it's a MAJOR thing. But I'm not willing to jump the shark and insinuate that they should never work on any problems other than itemization until it's fixed. I'm happy for 1.0.8 because it addresses other problems that matter to me too.
If your opinion is that they shouldn't have made any changes to the game since launch until they fixed itemization, well I think you're in the severe minority there. And if that's not your opinion then you're already admitting that they can fix some problems while working on other problems and... at that point... you're arguing about the order of the patches which is probably the most pedantic and fruitless discussion this forum could have.
I love the fact that we get Craft All coupled with being able to craft from the stash in 1.0.8. Do you know how much of a QoL upgrade that is for crafting gems? It's a damned Godsend. I never crafted gems before due to how cumbersome it was, but I will in 1.0.8. That's a HUGE swing in how I approach the game. Ignoring things like that, brushing them off as insignificant.... it's selfish and naive. Stuff like that matters just as much as itemization. Sometimes the small things matter more.
You're insane. They basically got the 'easy' part right, the combat - just throw money at your graphics department (just go and check how many non-RPG games have good combat systems, nowadays), and fell way short with the 'hard' part, the ideas.
Can't you be objective for once? You're always speaking of the bad and will not for the life of you cough up even the most benign compliment for what D3 got right.
Do you honestly think it would be easier, from a purely logistic standpoint, for the team to have to go back and change their combat system,mechanics, skills, skill animations, HELL....the whole idea of their combat system had they gotten it wrong? As opposed to rethinking their itemization template?
The IDEAS they created with their combat system is exactly what I was praising, and it's a damn good thing they laid the foundation of the game correctly. And you bet yo sweet ass that combat IS the foundation of the game, it consumes 99% of what we do.
Also, I seriously doubt that itemisation will be "embellished, expanded, or fixed" as long as that sword of Damocles called RMAH is handing over their heads. You got a taste of the shape of things to come when they announced that, whatever they do to items, it will not change old items, which will stay on as 'Legacy' versions. They fear the legal ramifications too much.
Man....you spin topics like a liberal. You're a liberal, aren't you?
lol.....just kidding just kidding....no I'm not.
It's called consideration for the players. They realize their mistake, they want to fix it, they don't want to screw players due to their mistakes.
I think one big problem is that we all like D3, but we would like to see other things from other multiplayer games incorporated into D3. It's a shame, especially when you play a game of lesser value, and say, damn, why doesn't D3 have something so simple as this? For example, a lot of great things from Diablo 2 that Diablo 3 didn't incorporate. I think what frustrates us the most is that we all want the game to get better, but we all have our different opinions on how it can become better.
If Kripp and Alk have different opinions, then that's their entitled right. They're not a governing body or game official, but just two gamers that want to add their criticism. We also have to remember the angle these two are coming from, which is a profit versus enjoyment method.
And how many of those are in Asia and how many are from Asia and how many are bots ?
You don't know and neither do I. Until you have some facts, drop it. Probably some, sure. Go ahead and give me your biased revisionist math. Tell me that there are 1.5 million bots playing per day.
Yes. From the point of view of the Hardcore player and the player that wants a challenge and/or replay value, yes the game is dead for them.
Sweeping generilizations rarely are correct.
I play HC, check my profile. I play strictly self-found (no AH) when I HC. I also play high MP when I farm in norm mode specifically for the challenge.
I have proof.
Go back a page and check the SS I put up when I was describing how much I enjoyed the combat system. Look at the MP and tell me again I go easy god dammit.
Go on.
Do it, i'll wait.
MP8 right?
So tell me again how I'm a casual fanboy that only wants the game easy as pie. Do it, it amuses me greatly.
You are an ignorant fool !
you are clearly a "fanboy".
Call me names more, it amuses me greatly.
Why the fuck can't we have a civil discussion about the state of the game without calling each other names?
Does it bother you so much that someone might like something that you don't?
I've said my peace on this game numerous times, and I'm aware that we have thousands of members and you cannot remember everything everyone types.
Ask Maka.
Vouch for me, Maka.
I've torn this game a new asshole on several occasion while venting my frustrations over their mistakes and sometimes meandering direction. I've quit 3 times due to getting burned out with the current state. They patch, I play, I quit....rinse...repeat.
Not the cyclic trend I wanted to happen.
Don't pretend that because I'm being reasonable and unbiased that I'm a "fanboy".
Take back the names you called me or I'll prove you were wrong as shit about that too by posting some rants I've fired off here about my anger over the current state of the game. I could fill the next 3 pages with my complaints, some clearly evidenced right here in this thread.
People, everyone....please stop labeling everyone here (except for Maka, let's call him names cuz he's a liberal ). You know I'm just teasing, Maka :Thumbs Up:
We all want/wanted the same thing. The best Diablo game ever produced. Some of us are pissed, some are happy. Some stand in the middle, some are confused and don't know what to think. Enter; Streamers to tell them what to think.
Just because something worked a decade ago doesn't mean that's how it should work today. The world changes. The landscape of gaming changes. What was good then probably isn't good today because the circumstances today are not the same as they were back then.
Precisely what I said a couple posts ago. It's amusing how some people choose to ignore certain arguments.
All these people judging D3's design decisions as bad because of how things were in the past. They were there when D1 and D2 launched, they complained about D2 having less "hardcore" elements than D1 (because you COULD RUN!!! and there was no BUTCHER so it was too easy!!!), they complained about the Diablo franchise not having enough "RPG elements" (D&D ones).
10 years later, we see that Diablo 2 was a pioneer in the games industry by being one of the first games to ever mix genres, RPG elements with a HEAVY focus on fast paced combat.
It could happen again to all D3 design choices. 10 years from now it's not unlikely that people who actually enjoyed D3 (hint: more than those who "enjoyed" D2) to praise its genre evolution. Or maybe that won't happen, maybe the decisions are bad and the future will tell us (difference between me and a blind hater, I'm willing to accept alternatives). And mark my words for 10 years from now, D4 WILL sell more than D3.
In 1999 the hot MMORPG was EverQuest. EQ is a prime example of how things change. EQ didn't keep up with the times (hell, EQ2 didn't keep up with the times) and now it's fallen into complete nostalgia. WoW gave the players what they wanted - it took away 10+ hour camps for monsters, it emphasized questing (oddly enough EQ had very little to offer in that department), it put all relevant content in instances so that people could win based on skill and not based on how much time they spent awake waiting for a boss to spawn.
EQ was great because it had no competition - you couldn't get most EQ players to go back nowadays. D2 had no competition in the ARPG market until TitanQuest, really, and that was seven years later (six years after LoD). Darkstone may have been considered a competitor, but Darkstone was much closer to a D1 clone than a D2 competitor (the devs of Darkstone freely admitted they were heavily inspired by D1). Darkstone also received fairly mixed reviews.
Thanks for the nostalgia. It's a bit sad though that the argument will be denied heavily because once people frame an issue, there's no taking them out of it, as a few dozen replies in this thread show.
I've said my peace on this game numerous times, and I'm aware that we have thousands of members and you cannot remember everything everyone types.
Ask Maka.
Vouch for me, Maka.
I've torn this game a new asshole on several occasion while venting my frustrations over their mistakes and sometimes meandering direction. I've quit 3 times due to getting burned out with the current state. They patch, I play, I quit....rinse...repeat.
Don't pretend that because I'm being reasonable and unbiased that I'm a "fanboy".
I can vouch for you ;). I've personally infracted you a few times for being way too passionate about it
It's a bit useless, though. As soon as people can't counter reason an argument, most of them will just drop it and keep on blindly believing on what they believed before. You hardly ever see people saying "damn, you're right... I've thought about this further and 'x' doesn't make any sense.." - only dumb people like us (I have changed views on specific "problems" quite a few times, and I know you have too).
We all want/wanted the same thing. The best Diablo game ever produced. Some of us are pissed, some are happy. Some stand in the middle, some are confused and don't know what to think. Enter; Streamers to tell them what to think.
Enter: people who have very little critical thinking capabilities and just swallow it all because they're "fans".
I can vouch for you ;). I've personally infracted you a few times for being way too passionate about it
lol...that's too funny. I actually meant to mention that I got a little too hot and still sport a sexy infraction point from my irrational outbursts.
I've tried to be good boy since, honest I have.
Passion means we care about something. Which is the benefit of the doubt I extend to many of the ones calling others "fanboy" and throwing fits as they do.
I've torn this game a new asshole on several occasion while venting my frustrations over their mistakes and sometimes meandering direction. I've quit 3 times due to getting burned out with the current state. They patch, I play, I quit....rinse...repeat.
I'll vouch for you too! I remember fairly lively conversations with you and Maka.
Of course I'm the one that will probably be confirmed as the overly optimistic one. Yet even my patience is running thin on some things. Even so I still mange to love the game. I suppose it helps that I play so many other games now as well that I don't get enough time with D3 to get worked up about it.
It's been intersting reading the topic, it certainly improved once it got past the whole Krip/Alk thing. I don't think anyone wants to get me started on my thoughts on Krip, so I'll just keep lurking. :Thumbs Up:
I agree with Alkaizer. As a friend of mine said: "I'll check the game out again once it goes out of beta."
Nothing infuriates me more than "D3 is a beta game" because that's what all of us knew was going to happen. That's exactly how Blizzard handled D2 and we knew they were going to apply the same iterative process with D3.
We knew D3 would not be released fully finished. We knew it would be iterated on heavily. I find it horribly disingenuous for people to accept that back on 5/15/12 and then whine about it on 5/16/12.
I agree with Alkaizer. As a friend of mine said: "I'll check the game out again once it goes out of beta."
The game is missing a lot of features (endgame is kind of a big deal...) and is just very.... lacking.
I think that's a stupid comment, I'm not trying to insult you and call you stupid, or your friend or whatever, I just think it's stupid to think game is still in beta. It came out of beta about a year ago now. A lot of people made the same comment about TOR. Here is the thing, the developers have their game design, it's essentially not going to be full tested in a beta as betas usually are limited to a certain extent either by content block or time constraints/wipes. Beta is to iron out bugs, test server stability and essentially practice running the game. Also the direction companies are heading betas aren't even betas anymore. The "beta" part is done in alpha versions now and early limited access beta versions for press. The "new beta" is just a teaser because it's so easy to get into betas these days. Now that all the content is accessible for everyone you can immediately see what is wrong the design philosophy. There is a difference between a beta and a lackluster release. In the case of Diablo III, ToR, and any other game that didn't meet the titanic expectations is due to the product being lackluster. There are games that do meet the hype, like BioShock Infinite.
Moving along I'm typing all of this because really the comment "oh it's still in beta" just really rubs me the wrong way. I'm not a blizzard fanboi or whatever, I've criticized this game for the past year on this very forum and have contributed in discussions about what is wrong with the game. I however try to do it rationally. I do enjoy this game but it needs improvement. People who say "oh it's still beta i'll check it out later" won't check it out later. They will read the patch notes and say "nope, not enough". If people think its still in beta maybe they should do what beta participants are responsible of doing by posting feedback on forums and addressing your concerns. Not typing threads in all caps "LOL THIS GAME SUCKS" and then making a topic saying why are negative topics being deleted. They get deleted because they are not constructed properly.
I did not intend to type so much, this comment about the game still being in beta just REALLY rubs me the wrong way. Guess it's different things for different people. Was limiting the beta to lvl 13 a mistake? Maybe. I highly doubt that they would have made the changes they made even if they released the full game as a beta.
So if you want to insult the game properly, say it's lackluster and failed to launch a wide variety of features.
Thanks for posting, it just reminds me again why I don't like these people. Extreme elitist behavior, all this "I want more complexity", "I hate casuals
What I like most is how they're talking about this, while playing a game where he apparently use the exact same skill over and over again and his health bar very rarely drop more than 5% at any point.
What an hardcore and complex game you dropped Diablo 3 for...
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In addition to the point made above about these reviews being horrificly outdated, you've got some serious self-selection bias going on here. In no way can anyone claim that Metacritic user reviews are representative of the total population when its a well-established and entirely obvious trend that malcontents are far more likely to ragegasm all over a review site than people who are at best happy, and are at worst "casually entertained" by a game.
On Kripp and Alkaiser: take their ramblings with a massive grain of salt. Not only are they self-aggrandized "elitists" who aren't representative of anything resembling a substantial volume of the player-base, but videos like this are entirely self-serving. They made their money off of D3; now they want as many eyeballs on PoE as they can muster so their viewership will increase. When the groundswell for that game inevitably runs its course, they want something fresh in D3 to crawl back to, just in case there's no new Flavor that Month.
Coincidentally, Kripp made a name for himself during Wrath of the Lich King (WoW's 3.0 expansion), when the game was arguably at the peak of its "casualization". All of the complaints about simplification, lack of challenge, destruction of social atmosphere, etc. stemmed from systems put in place during Wrath. Not only did he milk that cashcow for the entire expansion, he's continued doing so for two more expansions that have done little to move away from this design philosophy. I don't understand how anyone can take him seriously.
Also, just to add: I really enjoy D3. I've played it fairly consistently since release, with a month off here and there. I played D2 the same way for a decade; a few months here, a few months there. Most of the complaints I've read can simply be summed up as difference-of-opinion (I really enjoy the atmosphere, for example) but I, like everyone else, recognizes that there's still room for growth here. If genuinely enjoying a game makes me a fanboy, then so be it.
Can't stand any of these people. Just like Blizzard, these vloggers do it for the money. Oh I know, playing $60 for a video game is such a horrible thing - so is buying music and movies. It should all just be free because my money is just so precious. #neweconomy
He is a fanboy of the game. Guess that is what we all could be called for liking the game. Better that though than to be considered a fanboy of a couple of arrogant gamers like Alk and Kripp. You seem to want to defend them pretty badly despite their arrogant rants of a game they both played a ton and gained a ton of cash from. Silly if you ask me. 3 million unique IPs playing D3 each month, yeah, I bet the bots make up maybe 1% of that but much like your argument, there are no facts to back that claim up.
All i can say is: "Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one". Do you want to smell mine? Here it goes.
I didn't watch the vid, but one thing is sure: Kripp and Alk are streamers and they need viewers. Now they are playing PoE, so they need to exalt that game and ridiculize their competitor, aka Diablo 3. Fun fact, i never heard of these so famous streamers before Diablo 3 (as someone noted, Kripp was playing in WotlK, if i'm not mistaken, in Exodus... oh hi Yogg 0 exploit and ban); they made their share of money from streaming with D3 and RMAH and then dumped it. Kripp played some GW2 after because it was the next cool thing to play, now it's PoE.
In the end: these guys aren't E-Sport players, so they will change games when the market and general interest tell so, they need to keep up with fresh content to keep their viewers and ad renevue, so don't blindy follow some net celebrity to make an opinion for yourself, but use a bit of your brain.
Ps. I find hilarious that Female Barb avatar on Kripp's stream after talking shit of D3.
PLEASE.
Let your opinion be the one that decides if its worth playing or not. <3
I really hate to say this because I think you're an intelligent person even though you seem to land on the other side of the fence from me...
Stop living in the past. You sound like my grandfather talking about how he walked to school with no soles in his shoes. Just because something worked a decade ago doesn't mean that's how it should work today. The world changes. The landscape of gaming changes. What was good then probably isn't good today because the circumstances today are not the same as they were back then.
In 1999 the hot MMORPG was EverQuest. EQ is a prime example of how things change. EQ didn't keep up with the times (hell, EQ2 didn't keep up with the times) and now it's fallen into complete nostalgia. WoW gave the players what they wanted - it took away 10+ hour camps for monsters, it emphasized questing (oddly enough EQ had very little to offer in that department), it put all relevant content in instances so that people could win based on skill and not based on how much time they spent awake waiting for a boss to spawn.
EQ was great because it had no competition - you couldn't get most EQ players to go back nowadays. D2 had no competition in the ARPG market until TitanQuest, really, and that was seven years later (six years after LoD). Darkstone may have been considered a competitor, but Darkstone was much closer to a D1 clone than a D2 competitor (the devs of Darkstone freely admitted they were heavily inspired by D1). Darkstone also received fairly mixed reviews.
The point is that good combat probably DID matter, but we had no choice but to accept it because... wtf else were we going to play in the ARPG market? If you disliked parts of D2 but wanted to play an ARPG you had one choice: STFU and deal with it.
That doesn't work nowadays. I'm not saying D2 was bad, because it was *anything* but bad. But I am saying this overly-nostalgic perspective where people refuse to acknowledge that the gaming market and, more importantly, the gamers, are not the same beast that they were in 1999 is nothing short of being thickheaded for the sake of starting an argument. It reeks of outright ignorance of how things evolve. Just because YOU don't want to evolve doesn't really have any bearing on the fact that the world is evolving around you.
I mean we should all reject smartphones too because land line phones are old and they worked and there's no reason to ever touch that formula right? Clinging onto the past like a safety blanket for no reason is stupid and doesn't actually bring anything to the discussion. Being so brutally regressive is just silly. It doesn't do anything to foster the series moving forward if all you're going to do is opine for the past.
Except you're making the COMPLETELY WRONG assumption that you cannot cure the cold and have your appendix removed at the same time and that they both take the same time and effort to fix.
Blizzard can, and does, work on multiple projects at the same time and not every project takes the same amount of time. Itemization is CLEARLY a difficult topic that requires a lot of time to come up with a good solution. Fixing monster density, by comparison, doesn't take nearly as much development time. Adding in ID All and Craft All doesn't take weeks and months of time in the meeting room.
I agree that I want itemization fixed and that it's a MAJOR thing. But I'm not willing to jump the shark and insinuate that they should never work on any problems other than itemization until it's fixed. I'm happy for 1.0.8 because it addresses other problems that matter to me too.
If your opinion is that they shouldn't have made any changes to the game since launch until they fixed itemization, well I think you're in the severe minority there. And if that's not your opinion then you're already admitting that they can fix some problems while working on other problems and... at that point... you're arguing about the order of the patches which is probably the most pedantic and fruitless discussion this forum could have.
I love the fact that we get Craft All coupled with being able to craft from the stash in 1.0.8. Do you know how much of a QoL upgrade that is for crafting gems? It's a damned Godsend. I never crafted gems before due to how cumbersome it was, but I will in 1.0.8. That's a HUGE swing in how I approach the game. Ignoring things like that, brushing them off as insignificant.... it's selfish and naive. Stuff like that matters just as much as itemization. Sometimes the small things matter more.
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Wise ElderCan't you be objective for once? You're always speaking of the bad and will not for the life of you cough up even the most benign compliment for what D3 got right.
Do you honestly think it would be easier, from a purely logistic standpoint, for the team to have to go back and change their combat system,mechanics, skills, skill animations, HELL....the whole idea of their combat system had they gotten it wrong? As opposed to rethinking their itemization template?
The IDEAS they created with their combat system is exactly what I was praising, and it's a damn good thing they laid the foundation of the game correctly. And you bet yo sweet ass that combat IS the foundation of the game, it consumes 99% of what we do.
Man....you spin topics like a liberal. You're a liberal, aren't you?
lol.....just kidding just kidding....no I'm not.
It's called consideration for the players. They realize their mistake, they want to fix it, they don't want to screw players due to their mistakes.
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC)
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If Kripp and Alk have different opinions, then that's their entitled right. They're not a governing body or game official, but just two gamers that want to add their criticism. We also have to remember the angle these two are coming from, which is a profit versus enjoyment method.
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Wise ElderYou don't know and neither do I. Until you have some facts, drop it. Probably some, sure. Go ahead and give me your biased revisionist math. Tell me that there are 1.5 million bots playing per day.
Sweeping generilizations rarely are correct.
I play HC, check my profile. I play strictly self-found (no AH) when I HC. I also play high MP when I farm in norm mode specifically for the challenge.
I have proof.
Go back a page and check the SS I put up when I was describing how much I enjoyed the combat system. Look at the MP and tell me again I go easy god dammit.
Go on.
Do it, i'll wait.
MP8 right?
So tell me again how I'm a casual fanboy that only wants the game easy as pie. Do it, it amuses me greatly.
Call me names more, it amuses me greatly.
Why the fuck can't we have a civil discussion about the state of the game without calling each other names?
Does it bother you so much that someone might like something that you don't?
I've said my peace on this game numerous times, and I'm aware that we have thousands of members and you cannot remember everything everyone types.
Ask Maka.
Vouch for me, Maka.
I've torn this game a new asshole on several occasion while venting my frustrations over their mistakes and sometimes meandering direction. I've quit 3 times due to getting burned out with the current state. They patch, I play, I quit....rinse...repeat.
Not the cyclic trend I wanted to happen.
Don't pretend that because I'm being reasonable and unbiased that I'm a "fanboy".
Take back the names you called me or I'll prove you were wrong as shit about that too by posting some rants I've fired off here about my anger over the current state of the game. I could fill the next 3 pages with my complaints, some clearly evidenced right here in this thread.
People, everyone....please stop labeling everyone here (except for Maka, let's call him names cuz he's a liberal
We all want/wanted the same thing. The best Diablo game ever produced. Some of us are pissed, some are happy. Some stand in the middle, some are confused and don't know what to think. Enter; Streamers to tell them what to think.
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC)
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Wise ElderAll these people judging D3's design decisions as bad because of how things were in the past. They were there when D1 and D2 launched, they complained about D2 having less "hardcore" elements than D1 (because you COULD RUN!!! and there was no BUTCHER so it was too easy!!!), they complained about the Diablo franchise not having enough "RPG elements" (D&D ones).
10 years later, we see that Diablo 2 was a pioneer in the games industry by being one of the first games to ever mix genres, RPG elements with a HEAVY focus on fast paced combat.
It could happen again to all D3 design choices. 10 years from now it's not unlikely that people who actually enjoyed D3 (hint: more than those who "enjoyed" D2) to praise its genre evolution. Or maybe that won't happen, maybe the decisions are bad and the future will tell us (difference between me and a blind hater, I'm willing to accept alternatives). And mark my words for 10 years from now, D4 WILL sell more than D3.
Thanks for the nostalgia. It's a bit sad though that the argument will be denied heavily because once people frame an issue, there's no taking them out of it, as a few dozen replies in this thread show.
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Wise ElderIt's a bit useless, though. As soon as people can't counter reason an argument, most of them will just drop it and keep on blindly believing on what they believed before. You hardly ever see people saying "damn, you're right... I've thought about this further and 'x' doesn't make any sense.." - only dumb people like us (I have changed views on specific "problems" quite a few times, and I know you have too).
Enter: people who have very little critical thinking capabilities and just swallow it all because they're "fans".
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Wise Elderlol...that's too funny. I actually meant to mention that I got a little too hot and still sport a sexy infraction point from my irrational outbursts.
I've tried to be good boy since, honest I have.
Passion means we care about something. Which is the benefit of the doubt I extend to many of the ones calling others "fanboy" and throwing fits as they do.
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC)
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I'll vouch for you too!
Of course I'm the one that will probably be confirmed as the overly optimistic one.
It's been intersting reading the topic, it certainly improved once it got past the whole Krip/Alk thing. I don't think anyone wants to get me started on my thoughts on Krip, so I'll just keep lurking. :Thumbs Up:
Nothing infuriates me more than "D3 is a beta game" because that's what all of us knew was going to happen. That's exactly how Blizzard handled D2 and we knew they were going to apply the same iterative process with D3.
We knew D3 would not be released fully finished. We knew it would be iterated on heavily. I find it horribly disingenuous for people to accept that back on 5/15/12 and then whine about it on 5/16/12.
I think that's a stupid comment, I'm not trying to insult you and call you stupid, or your friend or whatever, I just think it's stupid to think game is still in beta. It came out of beta about a year ago now. A lot of people made the same comment about TOR. Here is the thing, the developers have their game design, it's essentially not going to be full tested in a beta as betas usually are limited to a certain extent either by content block or time constraints/wipes. Beta is to iron out bugs, test server stability and essentially practice running the game. Also the direction companies are heading betas aren't even betas anymore. The "beta" part is done in alpha versions now and early limited access beta versions for press. The "new beta" is just a teaser because it's so easy to get into betas these days. Now that all the content is accessible for everyone you can immediately see what is wrong the design philosophy. There is a difference between a beta and a lackluster release. In the case of Diablo III, ToR, and any other game that didn't meet the titanic expectations is due to the product being lackluster. There are games that do meet the hype, like BioShock Infinite.
Moving along I'm typing all of this because really the comment "oh it's still in beta" just really rubs me the wrong way. I'm not a blizzard fanboi or whatever, I've criticized this game for the past year on this very forum and have contributed in discussions about what is wrong with the game. I however try to do it rationally. I do enjoy this game but it needs improvement. People who say "oh it's still beta i'll check it out later" won't check it out later. They will read the patch notes and say "nope, not enough". If people think its still in beta maybe they should do what beta participants are responsible of doing by posting feedback on forums and addressing your concerns. Not typing threads in all caps "LOL THIS GAME SUCKS" and then making a topic saying why are negative topics being deleted. They get deleted because they are not constructed properly.
I did not intend to type so much, this comment about the game still being in beta just REALLY rubs me the wrong way. Guess it's different things for different people. Was limiting the beta to lvl 13 a mistake? Maybe. I highly doubt that they would have made the changes they made even if they released the full game as a beta.
So if you want to insult the game properly, say it's lackluster and failed to launch a wide variety of features.
What I like most is how they're talking about this, while playing a game where he apparently use the exact same skill over and over again and his health bar very rarely drop more than 5% at any point.
What an hardcore and complex game you dropped Diablo 3 for...