This is a mechanic that is baked-in throughout the game though! There is ALWAYS (well, once you hit 60) a breaking point beyond which you cannot progress without losing efficiency. For example, think back to before we had MP. A lot of players by that time had cleared Inferno Act I, and were progressing through Act II and Act III. Now, if that describes where your character was at, I'll bet that you spent most of your time running Act I over and over. Why? Because if you ran Act II, even though you technically COULD finish it, you would die a lot, it wasn't as fun, and you weren't getting as many drops per hour because of your slow kill speed.
How is choosing to stay and farm Act I in that situation any different than choosing to stay and farm MP1 over going "ahead" to MP2+ in our current situation?
EDIT: And also, shouldn't we WANT a breaking point like that in the game? If you reach the point where nothing in the game is challenging anymore and you've got all the gear you need to faceroll every type of monster/elite out there... what's the point of playing? The breaking point gives us a progression goal.
You make a good point generally as I absolutely agree there should be progression levels which could also be viewed as breaking points. I guess for me the difference is that before we chose not to do the next level higher difficulty because we were dying / the content was beyond where our gear could reliably take us. So we farmed better gear until we stopped dying so much. Now, we choose lower difficulties not because we are dying or because the higher difficulty is too challenging but because the reward does not scale with the additional time. I guess someone could view that as semantics but for me it doesn't "feel" right.
It also seems to promote playing the game at a level where there is little challenge and you can one-shot most things / kill elite packs in 3-4 seconds (whatever MP level that is for you). If you up the challenge to where you are taking 10 seconds or 20 seconds on an elite pack and may be in some danger, the reward does not scale. I guess you could say the challenge is the reward . . . but usually in games, there are increased in-game incentives (rewards) that align with the increased challenge. It seems the opposite here.
I have done this (run spreadsheets) and must diagree with you. The difference between MP1 and MP4 on most static maps (like fields of misery) is less than 10 seconds for me -- like 1:38 versus 1:48; and up to MP6, it's another 20 seconds. Frankly, that's less time than I spend IDing stuff and pausing/chatting.
Ok, and between MP6 and MP10? Because, barring you have the best gear I've ever seen, there is a breaking point for you where the next level up is not beneficial. For some people the difference between MP0 and MP4 is negligible because they overkill at MP0 and still one shot at MP4. But for that same person, they are just barely one-shotting MP4 mobs. And now that same person goes to MP8 . . . now there is a difference -- kill time has gone up much faster than xp/mf bonus. Sounds like your breaking point is higher than 95+% of the population, congratulations on that, but it is still there.
I completely agree that the point at which you can faceroll mobs is the best MP to farm.
Also, you already agreed with me. No takebacks!!
To be honest, I think we agree on most everything. I don't believe that solo, it will be ever efficient, even with the best gear in the game (let's just say, DiabloProgress #1 HeroScore, for simplicity) to play MP9 or 10.
In groups, it's a little different; you can usually go 1-2 MP higher while still demolishing mobs, because their HP scales only 75%, while group damage scales more than 100%. By the latter, I am referring to stacking buffs -- for example, two monks will get you 8% ASI and 48% damage; WD will get you voodoo; wiz will give you ASI bubble; DH will give you MOD, etc.
Put another way, my buffed damage goes through the roof in a group with great buffs, and our buffs complement each others', thereby allowing us to sneak in an extra MP or so (and offsetting the loss of a follower).
~puts on sunglasses~ Mother of god. ~proceeds to nerd drool~
Can I see your blizzard armory pretty please?
It varies a little depending on the gear configuration I use (for instance, when farming, I might give up as much as 30k dps to get 28 radius), but here you go:
It varies a little depending on the gear configuration I use (for instance, when farming, I might give up as much as 30k dps to get 28 radius), but here you go:
That's what you took from those 9 pages, huh. I heard a blue stating their intended design goal and then asking for feedback as to why we felt they did not meet this goal with the current mechanics:
The goal of Monster Power is to give players the ability to scale up how challenging enemies are in each difficulty and, in return, get some pretty cool bonuses to adventure stats as well as the opportunity to earn bonus items . . . I gather from your post that you feel the bonuses given for challenging yourself aren’t really worth the effort, but my question is what would you change about it? (Keeping in mind that we don’t want to force players into the higher MP levels.)
A good portion of that feedback states much the same that has been stated in this thread. Current rewards are not "pretty cool" as intended because they do not correctly scale with difficulty / time invested.
Last time I checked the topic of this thread was "scaling exp broken". The blue post clearly states that this is not the case:
For some, MP5 might be best. For others, MP1 or MP2 feels right. If you’ve got a lot of supporting gear, maybe MP7 or MP8 is your so-called “sweet spot.”
There's already one person in this thread who's farming MP4 because it's the sweet spot. If I look at your gear, you could probably farm higher MPs and gain more XP/hour if you would reduce MF and pickup (however, I'm in the same boat as you - I love pickup).
Besides, what I "took from those 9 pages" is lots and lots of QQ. I was just looking at the blue post because blue posts give hints on what changes to the game we can expect.
Regarding your reward for higher MPs: the blue post indicates that they might bump up item drop rates a bit. Which I don't like, it will just cause further inflation and widening the gap as explained before, but in this regard there might be something happening, yeah.
I have 200k+ dps w/o SS and I still cant beat act3 mp0 exp/hour. Its faster, more fun and less stressful.
At mp3/4 i only get half the exp/hour I get from mp0, and I dont notice any difference in legendary drops.
200k+ dps unbuffed and you're just half as fast on MP3 as on MP0? What the hell? Sorry, but I seriously doubt that. Furthermore, this is +75% magic find plus a good chance of a bonus item, in the long run there *is* a difference. If you don't notice it, it's because of bad RNG.
MP is mandatory..you shouldn't be vastly rewarded in all aspects for going higher..that defeats the purpose of them implementing MP in the first place..
Some of you need to realize that not everyone is a Monk/Barb where efficiency starts to tank if you one shot mobs.
For Wizards/WDs efficiency starts to tank when you NO LONGER one shot mobs. I think people in this thread (and in general), need to stop thinking like everyone plays their class. MP levels affect each class a bit differently and that's why you'll see varying opinions on the higher MP levels.
MP Scalling for me its ok, the reward is the feeling of "I can do it!", that's it.
My gear sucks, i dont have to much time to play the game right now, to farm too much.
But, saying that MP10 is not efficcient its not ok, that is why MP# is a gear check.
An example is the #3 HeroScore and #1 dps unbuffed in the World
He can do MP10 in a decent speed
You make a good point generally as I absolutely agree there should be progression levels which could also be viewed as breaking points. I guess for me the difference is that before we chose not to do the next level higher difficulty because we were dying / the content was beyond where our gear could reliably take us. So we farmed better gear until we stopped dying so much. Now, we choose lower difficulties not because we are dying or because the higher difficulty is too challenging but because the reward does not scale with the additional time. I guess someone could view that as semantics but for me it doesn't "feel" right.
It also seems to promote playing the game at a level where there is little challenge and you can one-shot most things / kill elite packs in 3-4 seconds (whatever MP level that is for you). If you up the challenge to where you are taking 10 seconds or 20 seconds on an elite pack and may be in some danger, the reward does not scale. I guess you could say the challenge is the reward . . . but usually in games, there are increased in-game incentives (rewards) that align with the increased challenge. It seems the opposite here.
D3Progress: http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/emberos-1608/Emberos/51824579
To be honest, I think we agree on most everything. I don't believe that solo, it will be ever efficient, even with the best gear in the game (let's just say, DiabloProgress #1 HeroScore, for simplicity) to play MP9 or 10.
In groups, it's a little different; you can usually go 1-2 MP higher while still demolishing mobs, because their HP scales only 75%, while group damage scales more than 100%. By the latter, I am referring to stacking buffs -- for example, two monks will get you 8% ASI and 48% damage; WD will get you voodoo; wiz will give you ASI bubble; DH will give you MOD, etc.
Put another way, my buffed damage goes through the roof in a group with great buffs, and our buffs complement each others', thereby allowing us to sneak in an extra MP or so (and offsetting the loss of a follower).
~puts on sunglasses~ Mother of god. ~proceeds to nerd drool~
Can I see your blizzard armory pretty please?
It varies a little depending on the gear configuration I use (for instance, when farming, I might give up as much as 30k dps to get 28 radius), but here you go:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Talys-1767/hero/16576834
http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/talys-1767/Lorelei/16576834
<3's Thank you Talys.
Bluepost about this exact topic.
MP is optional and the scaling is working as intended.
The goal of Monster Power is to give players the ability to scale up how challenging enemies are in each difficulty and, in return, get some pretty cool bonuses to adventure stats as well as the opportunity to earn bonus items . . . I gather from your post that you feel the bonuses given for challenging yourself aren’t really worth the effort, but my question is what would you change about it? (Keeping in mind that we don’t want to force players into the higher MP levels.)
A good portion of that feedback states much the same that has been stated in this thread. Current rewards are not "pretty cool" as intended because they do not correctly scale with difficulty / time invested.
D3Progress: http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/emberos-1608/Emberos/51824579
For some, MP5 might be best. For others, MP1 or MP2 feels right. If you’ve got a lot of supporting gear, maybe MP7 or MP8 is your so-called “sweet spot.”
There's already one person in this thread who's farming MP4 because it's the sweet spot. If I look at your gear, you could probably farm higher MPs and gain more XP/hour if you would reduce MF and pickup (however, I'm in the same boat as you - I love pickup).
Besides, what I "took from those 9 pages" is lots and lots of QQ. I was just looking at the blue post because blue posts give hints on what changes to the game we can expect.
Regarding your reward for higher MPs: the blue post indicates that they might bump up item drop rates a bit. Which I don't like, it will just cause further inflation and widening the gap as explained before, but in this regard there might be something happening, yeah.
200k+ dps unbuffed and you're just half as fast on MP3 as on MP0? What the hell? Sorry, but I seriously doubt that. Furthermore, this is +75% magic find plus a good chance of a bonus item, in the long run there *is* a difference. If you don't notice it, it's because of bad RNG.
@ mp0 --> 60-70mil xp per hour
@ mp1 --> 60-65mil xp per hour
@ mp2 --> 55-60mil xp per hour
And this trend just continue the higher mp level i go. (i have no problems farming @ mp 10)
I agree with OP, we should get more reward in higher mp.
Video showing average mp0 run:
Video showing average mp3 run:
And i a video showing i have no problems @ mp10
I wish blizzard would buff the damage output of the moobs, and nerf the moobs HP. Think that would fix "our problems"
http://eu.battle.net...856/hero/432203
nothing to see here...move along.
For Wizards/WDs efficiency starts to tank when you NO LONGER one shot mobs. I think people in this thread (and in general), need to stop thinking like everyone plays their class. MP levels affect each class a bit differently and that's why you'll see varying opinions on the higher MP levels.
My gear sucks, i dont have to much time to play the game right now, to farm too much.
But, saying that MP10 is not efficcient its not ok, that is why MP# is a gear check.
An example is the #3 HeroScore and #1 dps unbuffed in the World
He can do MP10 in a decent speed
youtube[.]com/watch?v=qH0SNZXSc6A