So people are STILL bitching about the removal of attribute points? Blizzard made it clear why they removed them. No matter if you were a hammerdin or bowazon you still dumped all your attribute points the same. Think of it like this.
McDonalds sells burgers that you can make your own builds:
People are constantly coming in and ordering the same thing over and over again, a double patty burger with 3 buns, lettuce and McSecret Sauce. Or they order a single/double patty burger with cheese. They completely remodel the stores way of working, now they have the BigMac, single and double cheese burger. So would you come in and bitch about how they removed customization by making the burger the way you were going to order it anyways?
So people are STILL bitching about the removal of attribute points? Blizzard made it clear why they removed them. No matter if you were a hammerdin or bowazon you still dumped all your attribute points the same. Think of it like this.
McDonalds sells burgers that you can make your own builds:
People are constantly coming in and ordering the same thing over and over again, a double patty burger with 3 buns, lettuce and McSecret Sauce. Or they order a single/double patty burger with cheese. They completely remodel the stores way of working, now they have the BigMac, single and double cheese burger. So would you come in and bitch about how they removed customization by making the burger the way you were going to order it anyways?
Its not the attribute points that people are complaining about... its the bullshit skill swapping.
It's actually just a select few people complaining now (usually the same people over the last few months). This has been talked to death, there have been great analogies and opinions stated, but it comes down to one thing. The people hating do not get what you’re talking about or just hate the fact it changed and nothing you say or do will change the fact. There has been no convincing argument for why D2 was better for build (although I do commend you bidmal for trying). Don't swap skills, i.e. don't let the system control how you play and in 95% of most cases people are going to swap builds just cause, they will stick with what they like. Move on.
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Playing Diablo since 97. I know nothing and having nothing good to say, I be a troll.
It's actually just a select few people complaining now (usually the same people over the last few months). This has been talked to death, there have been great analogies and opinions stated, but it comes down to one thing. The people hating do not get what you’re talking about or just hate the fact it changed and nothing you say or do will change the fact. There has been no convincing argument for why D2 was better for build (although I do commend you bidmal for trying). Don't swap skills, i.e. don't let the system control how you play and in 95% of most cases people are going to swap builds just cause, they will stick with what they like. Move on.
Its more than just not skillswapping FFS... its about no punishment for skillswapping and the ability for people to do it everywhere.
It should be... it needs to be IN TOWN ONLY and for an increasing gold cost.
Its more than just not skillswapping FFS... its about no punishment for skillswapping and the ability for people to do it everywhere.
It should be... it needs to be IN TOWN ONLY and for an increasing gold cost.
Why? Just because "it should be" doesn't explain anything. I suppose I have been using the same logic but I'll state a similar case using this logic. I won't swap skills just because since I will have a preference of what I like using because it should be. I'm fine with a gold cost and or only in town. I haven't played Beta but I'm under the impression Blizzard was putting in a casting delay or only in town at some point so I don't see what the big deal is.
Why should there be punishment for swapping? I remember in D2 I accidently put two points in a fill in one point skill... ops now I need to remake a character, how does that improve game play or experience? They want people to experiment with skills so would you suggest no punishment for normal than nightmare on you have to be punished for making a poor choice or accident? Actually I got it, let’s put more punishment in the game, remove softcore mode just because we need punishment.
You are stating your point of views with no barring to how it would improve game play or player experience.
EDIT: I saw your second post so I ingore my first paragraph. I still think people won't swap just cause, in general human behavior just doesn't flow that way i.e. "Wow fire hydra is awesome lets swap something else that I don't like or is shitty just cause". "Damn this guy is kicking my ass maybe I need a strategic ability, oh gotta teleport to town spend 50,000 gold, use a wp to get back and then beat him, then repeat this all over again for 75,000 gold."
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Playing Diablo since 97. I know nothing and having nothing good to say, I be a troll.
EDIT: im going to change my skills 50000 times during my journey from norm to inferno. and wither it costs gold or can only do it in town changes NOTHING, i will still change it exactly the same amount of times. it will just force me to have to cast TP for 3 seconds and waste some extra gold.
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"once the pretty hardcore gamers we had testing inferno found it fairly difficult, we then we doubled it" -trolololol jay wilson
It's actually just a select few people complaining now (usually the same people over the last few months). This has been talked to death, there have been great analogies and opinions stated, but it comes down to one thing. The people hating do not get what you’re talking about or just hate the fact it changed and nothing you say or do will change the fact. There has been no convincing argument for why D2 was better for build (although I do commend you bidmal for trying). Don't swap skills, i.e. don't let the system control how you play and in 95% of most cases people are going to swap builds just cause, they will stick with what they like. Move on.
Its more than just not skillswapping FFS... its about no punishment for skillswapping and the ability for people to do it everywhere. It should be... it needs to be IN TOWN ONLY and for an increasing gold cost.
Why does there need to be a punishment, though? Why does build experimentation and enjoyment of a video game need to come with some sort of caveat? What depth does that add?
What you're asking for is an arbitrary barrier to a game's dynamics, just because "that's the way it should be." I agree that there needs to be limitations, otherwise it defeats the purpose of building a set skills, but looking to punishplayers for doing anything is a horrible way to design something that's supposed to be fun.
The current cooldown system feels appropriate; The flow of the game is broken up enough where it's tedious to switch out skills on the fly without necessity, but it's not long enough to make it entirely irrelevant.
Besides, and let's be perfectly honest here, it'd take you the exact same 30 seconds to port back to town, switch out, and return. The only thing that changes is where you're doing it.
Imagine back to D2 era. A new player created himself an exclusively fire-built sorceress. Tons of points energy, points in strength/dexterity because he wanted to wear heavier gear. Minimal points in vitality.
That player will inevitably hit a point where his character is absolutely broken. He's forced to either grind out the same monsters for hours on end, or abandon this character and start over. The former option, especially with our knowledge now, will catch up with him in the end, where no amount of grinding can fix him.
Ultimately, for the majority of gamers, neither of those is a fun option.
At the end of the day, it's just a video game. Masochistic designs aren't fun for most of us anymore, especially now that there are more viable ways to extend the life of a game.
It's actually just a select few people complaining now (usually the same people over the last few months). This has been talked to death, there have been great analogies and opinions stated, but it comes down to one thing. The people hating do not get what you’re talking about or just hate the fact it changed and nothing you say or do will change the fact. There has been no convincing argument for why D2 was better for build (although I do commend you bidmal for trying). Don't swap skills, i.e. don't let the system control how you play and in 95% of most cases people are going to swap builds just cause, they will stick with what they like. Move on.
Its more than just not skillswapping FFS... its about no punishment for skillswapping and the ability for people to do it everywhere. It should be... it needs to be IN TOWN ONLY and for an increasing gold cost.
Why does there need to be a punishment, though? Why does build experimentation and enjoyment of a video game need to come with some sort of caveat? What depth does that add?
What you're asking for is an arbitrary barrier to a game's dynamics, just because "that's the way it should be." I agree that there needs to be limitations, otherwise it defeats the purpose of building a set skills, but looking to punishplayers for doing anything is a horrible way to design something that's supposed to be fun.
The current cooldown system feels appropriate; The flow of the game is broken up enough where it's tedious to switch out skills on the fly without necessity, but it's not long enough to make it entirely irrelevant.
Besides, and let's be perfectly honest here, it'd take you the exact same 30 seconds to port back to town, switch out, and return. The only thing that changes is where you're doing it.
Lets stop drinking the loop aid for a second. Experimentation and free skill swapping are not the same thing. Experiments are meant to be tests... NOT game flow. Blizzard could just as easily institute a training dummy or even mode, which while in the room you can freely skill swap in (until you leave and it reverts to your locked build).
Free skill swapping is no different than a shooter that only allows you to carry 2 guns at a time (except in D3 its 6 guns).
Lets stop drinking the loop aid for a second. Experimentation and free skill swapping are not the same thing. Experiments are meant to be tests... NOT game flow. Blizzard could just as easily institute a training dummy or even mode, which while in the room you can freely skill swap in (until you leave and it reverts to your locked build).
Free skill swapping is no different than a shooter that only allows you to carry 2 guns at a time (except in D3 its 6 guns).
experimentation while playing the game is a lot more fun then a fukin training dummy room. terrible idea
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"once the pretty hardcore gamers we had testing inferno found it fairly difficult, we then we doubled it" -trolololol jay wilson
Lets stop drinking the loop aid for a second. Experimentation and free skill swapping are not the same thing. Experiments are meant to be tests... NOT game flow. Blizzard could just as easily institute a training dummy or even mode, which while in the room you can freely skill swap in (until you leave and it reverts to your locked build).
Free skill swapping is no different than a shooter that only allows you to carry 2 guns at a time (except in D3 its 6 guns).
experimentation while playing the game is a lot more fun then a fukin training dummy room. terrible idea
skill swapping without penalty isn't fun... making builds that matter is alot better. skill swapping is a terrible idea.
See what i did there. I made a reply without any facts... dynamics or anything... just opinion. Like 95% of your replies.
Lets stop drinking the loop aid for a second. Experimentation and free skill swapping are not the same thing. Experiments are meant to be tests... NOT game flow. Blizzard could just as easily institute a training dummy or even mode, which while in the room you can freely skill swap in (until you leave and it reverts to your locked build).
Free skill swapping is no different than a shooter that only allows you to carry 2 guns at a time (except in D3 its 6 guns).
experimentation while playing the game is a lot more fun then a fukin training dummy room. terrible idea
skill swapping without penalty isn't fun... making builds that matter is alot better. skill swapping is a terrible idea.
Builds don't matter, though. They really don't. At the end of it all, you have your six abilities, and three passives, that you feel most comfortable playing with, and get the most enjoyment out of. If you find that your current build is inviable for a particular encounter, why should you be punished to correct that?
Why should someone be punished for being forced to switch out to abilities that they don't enjoy, just to complete an encounter they're struggling on, so that they can go be punished again in order to get back to the way they enjoy playing?
Why should someone be punished for experimenting with a newly acquired ability, or for having an idea for a different strategy, only to discover that it doesn't play as well they thought. Now they're punished again to go back to what they were trying before.
Worse, back to scenario 1. Say you really do like to experiment, so you spend a lot of money on changing out your abilities. So much so, that you're really low on gold, and nowhere near the respec cost. You inevitably hit a brick wall with an encounter. You're running a barbarian that doesn't have any ranged abilities, and it'd really make this encounter much easier. That player's now farming gold to change his build, only to be stuck with it until he can change it back.
I really don't see the value in having a town-located, gold costing respec. What tangible benefit does it provide? Our former alternative was accepting the fact that we broke our character. I certainly like this a lot better.
One thing I wouldn't like is for blizzard to let people see other people builds. It's not good for PvP. Force them to slowly discover your build while being PKed for a while
One thing I wouldn't like is for blizzard to let people see other people builds. It's not good for PvP. Force them to slowly discover your build while being PKed for a while
right now you can see peoples builds. but not in PVP
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"once the pretty hardcore gamers we had testing inferno found it fairly difficult, we then we doubled it" -trolololol jay wilson
Lets stop drinking the loop aid for a second. Experimentation and free skill swapping are not the same thing. Experiments are meant to be tests... NOT game flow. Blizzard could just as easily institute a training dummy or even mode, which while in the room you can freely skill swap in (until you leave and it reverts to your locked build).
Free skill swapping is no different than a shooter that only allows you to carry 2 guns at a time (except in D3 its 6 guns).
experimentation while playing the game is a lot more fun then a fukin training dummy room. terrible idea
skill swapping without penalty isn't fun... making builds that matter is alot better. skill swapping is a terrible idea.
Builds don't matter, though. They really don't. At the end of it all, you have your six abilities, and three passives, that you feel most comfortable playing with, and get the most enjoyment out of. If you find that your current build is inviable for a particular encounter, why should you be punished to correct that?
Why should someone be punished for being forced to switch out to abilities that they don't enjoy, just to complete an encounter they're struggling on, so that they can go be punished again in order to get back to the way they enjoy playing?
Yes - Yes you should. Like someone said in this thread already ... its like old school RPG elements. If you make a character that is specialized in one aspect you will have to work harder when you encounter a challenge for your specialization. Otherwise you can make a jack of all trades build that will allow you to have less weaknesses but less strengths.
You shouldn't have this easy button skill swapping bullshit. You shouldn't have this - Ah one champion i'll switch to single target nukes ... ah cool now a pack *30 second wait* now i'm switched to AOE. It Shouldn't be that easy...
I've played several ARPGS before where i screwed up my build... guess what i did... I paid a gold cost -respeced and now i'm cool. And you know what ... it still felt like character progression rather than picking up a gun in Halo.
this isnt fashion where its cool to wear 70's clothes again 40 years later. games EVOLVE and change. if everything needs to be old school lets all go play pong bro.
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"once the pretty hardcore gamers we had testing inferno found it fairly difficult, we then we doubled it" -trolololol jay wilson
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But seriously... a barb with all pink gear would look pretty unique I suppose xD
http://huntersc.tv
all gay men playing diablo will want a pink barb............
(i will have a pink barb )
McDonalds sells burgers that you can make your own builds:
People are constantly coming in and ordering the same thing over and over again, a double patty burger with 3 buns, lettuce and McSecret Sauce. Or they order a single/double patty burger with cheese. They completely remodel the stores way of working, now they have the BigMac, single and double cheese burger. So would you come in and bitch about how they removed customization by making the burger the way you were going to order it anyways?
Its not the attribute points that people are complaining about... its the bullshit skill swapping.
Its more than just not skillswapping FFS... its about no punishment for skillswapping and the ability for people to do it everywhere.
It should be... it needs to be IN TOWN ONLY and for an increasing gold cost.
SOOOO funny how you think adding those two things drastically changes anything. illusions are awesome
It changes everything .... I swear dude when you called yourself a Koolaid drinker you didn't lie.
In Town means you cannot switch on the fly.
Increase gold cost means you are going to switch less often.
Why? Just because "it should be" doesn't explain anything. I suppose I have been using the same logic but I'll state a similar case using this logic. I won't swap skills just because since I will have a preference of what I like using because it should be. I'm fine with a gold cost and or only in town. I haven't played Beta but I'm under the impression Blizzard was putting in a casting delay or only in town at some point so I don't see what the big deal is.
Why should there be punishment for swapping? I remember in D2 I accidently put two points in a fill in one point skill... ops now I need to remake a character, how does that improve game play or experience? They want people to experiment with skills so would you suggest no punishment for normal than nightmare on you have to be punished for making a poor choice or accident? Actually I got it, let’s put more punishment in the game, remove softcore mode just because we need punishment.
You are stating your point of views with no barring to how it would improve game play or player experience.
EDIT: I saw your second post so I ingore my first paragraph. I still think people won't swap just cause, in general human behavior just doesn't flow that way i.e. "Wow fire hydra is awesome lets swap something else that I don't like or is shitty just cause". "Damn this guy is kicking my ass maybe I need a strategic ability, oh gotta teleport to town spend 50,000 gold, use a wp to get back and then beat him, then repeat this all over again for 75,000 gold."
EDIT: im going to change my skills 50000 times during my journey from norm to inferno. and wither it costs gold or can only do it in town changes NOTHING, i will still change it exactly the same amount of times. it will just force me to have to cast TP for 3 seconds and waste some extra gold.
Why does there need to be a punishment, though? Why does build experimentation and enjoyment of a video game need to come with some sort of caveat? What depth does that add?
What you're asking for is an arbitrary barrier to a game's dynamics, just because "that's the way it should be." I agree that there needs to be limitations, otherwise it defeats the purpose of building a set skills, but looking to punishplayers for doing anything is a horrible way to design something that's supposed to be fun.
The current cooldown system feels appropriate; The flow of the game is broken up enough where it's tedious to switch out skills on the fly without necessity, but it's not long enough to make it entirely irrelevant.
Besides, and let's be perfectly honest here, it'd take you the exact same 30 seconds to port back to town, switch out, and return. The only thing that changes is where you're doing it.
Imagine back to D2 era. A new player created himself an exclusively fire-built sorceress. Tons of points energy, points in strength/dexterity because he wanted to wear heavier gear. Minimal points in vitality.
That player will inevitably hit a point where his character is absolutely broken. He's forced to either grind out the same monsters for hours on end, or abandon this character and start over. The former option, especially with our knowledge now, will catch up with him in the end, where no amount of grinding can fix him.
Ultimately, for the majority of gamers, neither of those is a fun option.
At the end of the day, it's just a video game. Masochistic designs aren't fun for most of us anymore, especially now that there are more viable ways to extend the life of a game.
Lets stop drinking the loop aid for a second. Experimentation and free skill swapping are not the same thing. Experiments are meant to be tests... NOT game flow. Blizzard could just as easily institute a training dummy or even mode, which while in the room you can freely skill swap in (until you leave and it reverts to your locked build).
Free skill swapping is no different than a shooter that only allows you to carry 2 guns at a time (except in D3 its 6 guns).
experimentation while playing the game is a lot more fun then a fukin training dummy room. terrible idea
skill swapping without penalty isn't fun... making builds that matter is alot better. skill swapping is a terrible idea.
See what i did there. I made a reply without any facts... dynamics or anything... just opinion. Like 95% of your replies.
Builds don't matter, though. They really don't. At the end of it all, you have your six abilities, and three passives, that you feel most comfortable playing with, and get the most enjoyment out of. If you find that your current build is inviable for a particular encounter, why should you be punished to correct that?
Why should someone be punished for being forced to switch out to abilities that they don't enjoy, just to complete an encounter they're struggling on, so that they can go be punished again in order to get back to the way they enjoy playing?
Why should someone be punished for experimenting with a newly acquired ability, or for having an idea for a different strategy, only to discover that it doesn't play as well they thought. Now they're punished again to go back to what they were trying before.
Worse, back to scenario 1. Say you really do like to experiment, so you spend a lot of money on changing out your abilities. So much so, that you're really low on gold, and nowhere near the respec cost. You inevitably hit a brick wall with an encounter. You're running a barbarian that doesn't have any ranged abilities, and it'd really make this encounter much easier. That player's now farming gold to change his build, only to be stuck with it until he can change it back.
I really don't see the value in having a town-located, gold costing respec. What tangible benefit does it provide? Our former alternative was accepting the fact that we broke our character. I certainly like this a lot better.
right now you can see peoples builds. but not in PVP
Yes - Yes you should. Like someone said in this thread already ... its like old school RPG elements. If you make a character that is specialized in one aspect you will have to work harder when you encounter a challenge for your specialization. Otherwise you can make a jack of all trades build that will allow you to have less weaknesses but less strengths.
You shouldn't have this easy button skill swapping bullshit. You shouldn't have this - Ah one champion i'll switch to single target nukes ... ah cool now a pack *30 second wait* now i'm switched to AOE. It Shouldn't be that easy...
I've played several ARPGS before where i screwed up my build... guess what i did... I paid a gold cost -respeced and now i'm cool. And you know what ... it still felt like character progression rather than picking up a gun in Halo.
this isnt fashion where its cool to wear 70's clothes again 40 years later. games EVOLVE and change. if everything needs to be old school lets all go play pong bro.