@Romique:
No as the skills are set up right now it won't, because it does takes several seconds to switch around, but if there was a tab as I would like there to be, you could battle an barb with your skills, kill him, switch focus to the caster and realize you need other skills, then in a instance (i.e. less than a second) swap to an entire new set of skills to continue battling.
It might be an balance issue, or it might not matter at all, but imo, tabs should be frozen for PvP, so you can skill swap skills, just not quick-swap an entire build.
The tabs in my opinion is useful in PvE to reduce the downtime one might face when having to swap around all the time. Right you people say that it isn't a problem, but I bet that half a year in, when people have been swapping a million times, using maybe 30 sec each time, they would like to have had a quick-swap tab to switch over to another build.
@Romique:
No as the skills are set up right now it won't, because it does takes several seconds to switch around, but if there was a tab as I would like there to be, you could battle an barb with your skills, kill him, switch focus to the caster and realize you need other skills, then in a instance (i.e. less than a second) swap to an entire new set of skills to continue battling.
It might be an balance issue, or it might not matter at all, but imo, tabs should be frozen for PvP, so you can skill swap skills, just not quick-swap an entire build.
The tabs in my opinion is useful in PvE to reduce the downtime one might face when having to swap around all the time. Right you people say that it isn't a problem, but I bet that half a year in, when people have been swapping a million times, using maybe 30 sec each time, they would like to have had a quick-swap tab to switch over to another build.
Well, I assumed swapping the entire build will make all the skills unusable for 30 seconds, so I'd rather not use it in pvp even if I had a choice Maybe a single spell once in a while. But that doesn't really matter in the end, because I get it so that your idea was to make pve more convinient and I think it pretty much does. Not a necessity, but a nice future patch feature, as some already said in this thread. Though if blizz ever considers it, the priority would be quite low I suppose. As it is difficult to implement and doesn't really change gaming experience that much. At least now I think so, my opinion could easily change once I actually see the game myself.
I totally agree that is convinient and not a necessity in any way and for all I care they could wait some patches (after release) until everything is in working order before adding such a feature.
The 30 sec rule though: It seems we understand it diffrently. I understand it so that when you swap out a skill, you can use it instantly, but can't swap that skill out again for another 30 sec, not that, that skill will become unusable for 30 sec. If that was the case, it would kinda defeat the whole purpose of being able to swap an entire build in an instance (although it still helps a little I guese)
the rune skill system is my most favorite thing about D3 and i think its amazing. it wont be revamped, they never said anything about completely redoing it or anything, just tweaks and then changing how runes drop and such
That's too bad. There are so many ways they could actually make the system good, but it needs more than a tweaking to do so.
im not saying its as good as it could possibly be, im just saying i love it. what changes would you make specifically to the skill system? and i dont mean skill swapping. withOUT adding skil trees.
I would like to see a variant of skill trees, where you can pick a skill and then "add" abilities to that skill with gems/points/whatever. It can be as easy as Titan Quest's simply choose a bonus to add to your attack (like say Bleeding) and then you can up the level of bleeding with more points. Or you can add a gem to your skill to add elemental damage or some-such. Or even do both. Have level gain bonuses that can make the skill stronger and have multiple slots to stick various gems in. The Runes are a nice start, but are far too limiting. As well, I want more customization within the skills themselves, so that I can up crit chance, or bleeding, or exploding, or stun effects or just the base power level of the skill.
I would like resources within the classes to be revamped as well, as currently they mean nothing. Allow other classes to take advantage of other various resources and then you can have fun customizing a class to your playstyle. Allow skills to take advantage of those resources within each class.
Here's a post I made on another site about that:
[About Resources]
"I will say that when Blizzard announced this change, I liked the idea. That there are more and different resource systems is not a bad thing. What I find bad is there was no reason for them. The classes don't have to have unique play-styles because of the resources -- they have different playstyles because they are different classes! The skills should determine playstyles, so that if you like close combat beatsticking, every (or most) class(es) should "support" that to some degree, although in varying amounts and ability, and in different ways. If you like ranged control, same thing, or if you like glass cannons, or etc. etc.
Blizzard should use the resources to enhance that idea by supporting various resources with all classes.
This is just hashing something out on paper, so bear with me, as it may be clunky, but it as at least something to think about.
There are 4 Resources: "Health", "Mana", "Fury", and "Stamina"
Health operates as it always does, a measure of how many hits you can take before death. It does not regen normally and is mainly governed by the Vitality stat. Other stats can affect it, for example the opponenet's Strength (monster or player) determines how much of a chunk to remove from this resource and your Defense stat determines how much incoming damage is mitigated, but overall, the Vitality stat is most directly involved with this one by determining how much you have.
Mana operates as it always does, a pool with which to power some special abilities. It regenerates slowly (or fast depending upon the class) over time. It is governed by the Intelligence stat, determining the base pool size.
Fury is another pool to power some special abilities. It generates upon all melee attacks and upon getting hit. It degens without use. It is governed by the Strength stat which would determine how much you gain per hit and the speed of it's degen.
Stamina is a pool that governs how quickly or often you can attack as well as sprinting. It regens over time. It is governed by the Dexterity stat and that determines how quickly it regens. Everybody can sprint, but at the cost of Stamina (and make it more like a while you hold the button you are sprinting, and it is draining stamina, defaulting to "off").
With 4 stats, I have a variety of different pools with which to work with now. You can make a Melee class, (we'll use the Barbarian as an example) that uses these pools with which to determine his various skills.
Maybe some skills are Shouts, that use mana. The Barb would have a low mana resource (due to lower intelligence and having no bonuses to the speed of it regen), so his shouts wouldn't really be spammable, unless he focuses his stat alteration on making it spammable (gaining int to make the pool larger, or improved regen rate to increase that, etc.) You control the shouts by making them higher costing in mana. Maybe some cost Stamina as well, thus making him think of two resources. Maybe some cost Fury or even Health.
You give him some AoE skills, as single target killing was the boring part of a Barbarian. So a Cleave skill or the Leap Attack skill fit with that perfectly, and you have them cost some amount of Fury to do, or Mana to do, or both to do.
You give him some ranged abilities, like Magic Axe tossing or something that require more mana than normal and stamina, but give him a ranged option. Or a net that he can toss out to slow enemies or what have you.
Now that's a base. On top of that, some items can net more of a resource than others or alter the resources actions. 2-Handed axes use more Stamina, but they do more damage. Wands use less Mana than normal for attacks, or generate Fury with their magical shot. Maybe magical Staffs use twice the mana for attacks but cause extra damage or effects for spells. Maybe Gauntlets or "fist weapons" generate more fury per attack and use less stamina. Maybe bows can "charge up attacks" to be more powerful, at the cost of using more stamina. Maybe shields can block attacks, but use up stamina to do so. This way you don't have to create "class-specific" items, but you do create items that work "better" with certain classes and builds, and you enable builds that would not maybe be "optimal", but could be fun! (Maybe a dual wand-wielding barbarian could be interesting to play depending on the skills you gave him... ) Right now, every class seems "pigeon-holed" into a playstyle, and that makes the game poorer for it.
You can give wizards melee magical attacks as well that use fury. Maybe a "flaming sword", or a Nova spell. You can give Demon Hunter's the ability to trade their Health for damage or abilities. You can give the Witch Doctor abilities that require Fury as well.
Maybe give Skills "Passive" abilities that you can apply to them individually to "customize them", like an unlock that you can apply to Zombie Dogs that make them earn Fury on their melee attacks. Or Cleave can cause Bleeding damage at the cost of more stamina per attack.
The closest example to this is the Demon Hunter with their dual-resource system. It is just applied poorly in the Demon Hunter's case.
The point is, but making all resources available to all classes and supported through weapons and skills, you can tailor make your play experience for each class, and you create a deeper system. By tying each resource to each class, you are doing nothing but giving them 1 resource with which to work with, Mana, and saying that it operates a different way for each one and then calling it something different "just because". This is my problem with it. It is an arbitrary "change for change's sake" that does nothing to enhance gameplay by itself. Every resource as it stands right now could be called "Mana" and it would not change how the characters would play. The only thing that changes is how each class uses it.
I am not afraid of change for the game. I am completely open to change for D3. I just want to see change that makes sense and has a purpose, within the established Diablo universe!"
I want to see the stat system come back, but I want each stat to mean something for every class. Having only 1 stat that is "important" above all others to such a degree is asinine. Change it so every stat is equally as important and you get rid of the "dump stat" mentality, as well as allow people to enhance their style of play.
Change items to have less class specific ones. This opens up fun ideas. like dual wielding wands for barbarians or some such silly thing. Allow fun things to be viable.
I don't want to see free respecs, I would rather see a respec with a cost, maybe a quest that can unlock you a respec or something.
There are lots of changes that can be made to make for a more fun and open system, that doesn't hand-hold you through all decision-making processes. I mean, the game is "supposed" to be aimed at adults; stop treating us like we're idiots!
Without flaming, it sounds, to a degree, that you want to play D2. The systems implemented imho are completely fine, in fact besides loot the skill system in general is what's got me the most excited about D3.
No, I want to play Diablo 3. This means I want to play sequel. As I said in my writeup, you can change things to be "more like" an iteration on D2 and D1 (ie. taking what was done before and making it better) while still having a game that is unique and not "Diablo 2.5" Right now, what Blizzard is doing is what Wizards of the Coast did with D&D.
They took away allocating stats per level, and instead implemented choosing stats based on gear. They're not gone, they are just in a different, and imo, better place. This is because builds are going to rely on stats, and while sure you could just respec and put in your stats differently, it's a lot more fun, at least to me, to try to find gear that fits your style. Since Diablo revolves around gear.
It was already implemented via gear in the previous 2 games. The gear was there to be a layer on top of what you were already doing with building your character. It was another layer of customization so you could support a play-style. They removed it completely rather than improving upon it, by say, making all of the stats equally important in some way to every character. This would eliminate "default" dump stats and instead make the "dump stats" be whatever the player chooses.
I see what you mean about variants of skill trees, and popping in gems and such to change your skills. Buuuut, I really don't think that's the way to go with Diablo. There's already over 120 skills per class (counting runestones), where you can only pick 6. Customization after that comes from affixes on items, such as plus elemental damage, or changes to resources ect. Adding stuff like stuns and bleeds to your skills, while it can be done, will require a lot of balancing issues. It's a nice thought, but I think they are better left to the games that already have them, such as PoE and such. To be perfectly honest, my gut reaction after hearing PoE's skill system was bad. Sure adding up to what, 4 gems per skill to change the skill and then having to level that gem by constantly using that skill sounds cool on paper, but I really don't think I'd like a system like that. Just my opinion.
And I think steering that direction is the perfect way to take Diablo. You've already established that with the previous game. Just take it further! Balancing is a non-issue. There will always be an overpowered character, in both pve and pvp, no matter what you do. So you simply make all characters equally fun to play with variety in each of their playstyles along with input from the player to control those playstyles (via skill customizing, stat customizing, gear choices, etc.). There are not enough skills to allow for that kind of thing. The game needs to have a skill system that is more like Guild Wars if you want to have the "skill swapping" system to be effective.
I understand that people think that the runes are customization, and that Diablo III has "some". It just doesn't have enough, nor does it have the "attachment" you can get with a character in growing a build. Guild Wars' mentality works well for Guild Wars (the skills swapping). It was not a Diablo thing, nor should be. You need to add some sort of permanency and customization to it, something that rewards levelling and player choices, not dependant upon item drops.
Playing PoE for a grand total of around 8 hours (almost as long as the Diablo III beta), I find PoE to have far more depth. And it even feels more like Diablo than Diablo III does! That's not to say that it does everything right. There are many things that it needs to polish, just like D3, and I will be posting a nice big long writeup on their forums on what I think needs to be improved, within the realm of that game. And their skill system was very neat to play with.
Now as far as you saying the current resources mean nothing, confuses me. They mean everything to the class, they ARE the playstyle. For instance the monk's spirit is akin to combination points; You build up combo points (spirit) and then spend them on what you want. The wizards AP means using any skill is easy, but it limits spamming, which gets rid of the need to nerf the spells because you won't be able to constantly cast. I can go on with the rest of the resources but hopefully you get my point; Every resource has effectively helped balance the classes while making them fun. Saying they mean nothing is far from the truth.
You still didn't answer the question though:
What is the difference between the Barbarian having mana that degenerates regaining it after hitting things and having a Barbarian with Fury?
What is the difference between the Wizard's Arcane Power, and simply having Mana regen at a faster rate?
Why not instead have a resource "Fury" that every character can use with physical attacks and is supported with some skills in their repertoire? Why not have Mana for every class, they just use it differently?
It is the skills that determine playstyle, not the resource. Right now the resources are arbitrary. They are "change for the sake of change" They add absolutely zero to the game as they are written write now. What they do is limit the choices in playstyle you have with characters and that is supported by the current stat system and skill system. Thus creating more cookie cutter builds.
You need a "unifying system" that works for all characters in order for the game to make sense.
There's already fun, strange ideas as far as weapons and builds go, such as a melee wizard, or a spear / shield DH. Making it so a barb can not only dual wield wands, but making it viable is slightly ridiculous imo. Also, talking about class specific items, I think it creates more diversity. There will already be thousands of items that anyone can use, adding *some* that are class specific helps change that up.
Class specific items will mean that they are better than all other "universal" items for your class. This will limit diversity. Right now they have far too many class-specific items. Items should be useful by my build and playstyle, not the class I am playing. A wand-wielding barb running around in a pointy hat might sound ridiculous to you, but in someone else's mind it sounds fun, and that kind of thing helps keep the longevity of the game alive.
Now on the whole argument of free respeccing or adding a cost; It won't matter. If I want to respec, I'm going to do it whether there's a cost or not. There NOT being a cost actually helps a lot of players, as it encourages experimentation without the fear of ruining a build or a character. I can tell you right now there's MANY skills I've never tried in my years of playing D2 just because I didn't want to ruin my toon because I was unsure if I really wanted that skill. I can also tell you that almost every player, after experimenting, will pick and stick with a build. This fear of people constantly changing is unmerited as there's no proof, we need to wait until release.
Then why not have the build "lock" into place at level 60? Or when you start Inferno? Or at some quest that you do that will give you a bonus for doing so? Why does permanency scare so many people?
As far as no proof? People were running around with their skill window open and swapping as they played! What more proof do you need that it will be abused! People will change a build simply to defeat a heavily scripted boss, thus rendering the challenge of playing pointless. People look for an advantage when they can, and when it is easily supplied to them, they will take advantage of it to the point of abuse.
As far as your closing statements go, I really don't think they are treating anyone anywhere close to idiots. They are making the game accessible to casuals, which face it without the 90% of casuals to buy the game, there wouldn't BE a game, just not enough money in it. They've done a very good job of making D3 casual friendly, in normal mode. The latter difficulties (which as cited a million times before, 90% of players in D2 didn't reach past nightmare) is aimed at the HC minority of the fanbase. THAT'S where we, the HC fans who troll this website =P will be, and that's where the challenge is.
There's a difference between accessible and "idiot-proofing".
This is where they are leaning, and that is wrong.
TLDR; It's going to be an awesome game, and while some concerns are legitimate, I believe we need to wait until release before a final verdict is thrown out.
I agree that the actual release will determine whether the game will be good or not.
/agree no free respecs. although i would like to be able to save builds and pay to switch to a new one you saved
/agree bring stat allocation back ONLY if all equally useful
/disagree with the skill point system, the skill point adding system ive always hated, it makes me feel extremely limited in my builds unless they give you 6 points per level and you can only put 1 point into each skill you want to use id be ok with that.
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"once the pretty hardcore gamers we had testing inferno found it fairly difficult, we then we doubled it" -trolololol jay wilson
/agree no free respecs. although i would like to be able to save builds and pay to switch to a new one you saved
/agree bring stat allocation back ONLY if all equally useful
/disagree with the skill point system, the skill point adding system ive always hated, it makes me feel extremely limited in my builds unless they give you 6 points per level and you can only put 1 point into each skill you want to use id be ok with that.
I would agree not to bring back the skills system as it was in Diablo II. I do agree that every skill needs to be useful, and not a means to an end. I did like the idea of synergies, I just found them poorly implemented in DII. But I find that Diablo III is still lacking in the customization aspect that DII did provide (albeit limited) with their skills. Having "power levels" (via some sort of point system or something) that you have to choose would make it better, and having to choose which would be more powerful would make for a more interesting system. The one thing I disliked about the current system was that all skills end up being their most powerful versions. There was no choice in that.
I would agree not to bring back the skills system as it was in Diablo II. I do agree that every skill needs to be useful, and not a means to an end. I did like the idea of synergies, I just found them poorly implemented in DII. But I find that Diablo III is still lacking in the customization aspect that DII did provide (albeit limited) with their skills. Having "power levels" (via some sort of point system or something) that you have to choose would make it better, and having to choose which would be more powerful would make for a more interesting system. The one thing I disliked about the current system was that all skills end up being their most powerful versions. There was no choice in that.
well thats the point, you have a choice of ~124 different skill effects and 18 passives and you can have 6 at max power and 3 passives. wither you achieved this through skill points or not is irrelevent because the outcome is the same. end game is where change matters IMO, not leveling up. because you will level pretty damn fast from 1-60.
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"once the pretty hardcore gamers we had testing inferno found it fairly difficult, we then we doubled it" -trolololol jay wilson
Your denying the whole point of Lord_Jaroh, in D2 you could also be a strong character even if you didnt have the correct items for your build, now your power is exclusive through farm (skills runes and items) that means your choices means shit because it doesnt matter what you choose, your farm do the talking in D3 and btw ITS RELEVANT.
were not talking about gear little buddy *pats on head*
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"once the pretty hardcore gamers we had testing inferno found it fairly difficult, we then we doubled it" -trolololol jay wilson
Your denying the whole point of Lord_Jaroh, in D2 you could also be a strong character even if you didnt have the correct items for your build, now your power is exclusive through farm (skills runes and items) that means your choices means shit because it doesnt matter what you choose, your farm do the talking in D3 and btw ITS RELEVANT.
were not talking about gear little buddy *pats on head*
I`m not gonna argue with a troll
no matter how hard i try. i can never out troll you crysto <3
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"once the pretty hardcore gamers we had testing inferno found it fairly difficult, we then we doubled it" -trolololol jay wilson
I would agree not to bring back the skills system as it was in Diablo II. I do agree that every skill needs to be useful, and not a means to an end. I did like the idea of synergies, I just found them poorly implemented in DII. But I find that Diablo III is still lacking in the customization aspect that DII did provide (albeit limited) with their skills. Having "power levels" (via some sort of point system or something) that you have to choose would make it better, and having to choose which would be more powerful would make for a more interesting system. The one thing I disliked about the current system was that all skills end up being their most powerful versions. There was no choice in that.
well thats the point, you have a choice of ~124 different skill effects and 18 passives and you can have 6 at max power and 3 passives. wither you achieved this through skill points or not is irrelevent because the outcome is the same. end game is where change matters IMO, not leveling up. because you will level pretty damn fast from 1-60.
Your denying the whole point of Lord_Jaroh, in D2 you could also be a strong character even if you didnt have the correct items for your build, now your power is exclusive through farm (skills runes and items) that means your choices means shit because it doesnt matter what you choose, your farm do the talking in D3 and btw ITS RELEVANT.
I could not stop laughing while reading this post.
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No as the skills are set up right now it won't, because it does takes several seconds to switch around, but if there was a tab as I would like there to be, you could battle an barb with your skills, kill him, switch focus to the caster and realize you need other skills, then in a instance (i.e. less than a second) swap to an entire new set of skills to continue battling.
It might be an balance issue, or it might not matter at all, but imo, tabs should be frozen for PvP, so you can skill swap skills, just not quick-swap an entire build.
The tabs in my opinion is useful in PvE to reduce the downtime one might face when having to swap around all the time. Right you people say that it isn't a problem, but I bet that half a year in, when people have been swapping a million times, using maybe 30 sec each time, they would like to have had a quick-swap tab to switch over to another build.
The 30 sec rule though: It seems we understand it diffrently. I understand it so that when you swap out a skill, you can use it instantly, but can't swap that skill out again for another 30 sec, not that, that skill will become unusable for 30 sec. If that was the case, it would kinda defeat the whole purpose of being able to swap an entire build in an instance (although it still helps a little I guese)
No, I want to play Diablo 3. This means I want to play sequel. As I said in my writeup, you can change things to be "more like" an iteration on D2 and D1 (ie. taking what was done before and making it better) while still having a game that is unique and not "Diablo 2.5" Right now, what Blizzard is doing is what Wizards of the Coast did with D&D.
It was already implemented via gear in the previous 2 games. The gear was there to be a layer on top of what you were already doing with building your character. It was another layer of customization so you could support a play-style. They removed it completely rather than improving upon it, by say, making all of the stats equally important in some way to every character. This would eliminate "default" dump stats and instead make the "dump stats" be whatever the player chooses.
And I think steering that direction is the perfect way to take Diablo. You've already established that with the previous game. Just take it further! Balancing is a non-issue. There will always be an overpowered character, in both pve and pvp, no matter what you do. So you simply make all characters equally fun to play with variety in each of their playstyles along with input from the player to control those playstyles (via skill customizing, stat customizing, gear choices, etc.). There are not enough skills to allow for that kind of thing. The game needs to have a skill system that is more like Guild Wars if you want to have the "skill swapping" system to be effective.
I understand that people think that the runes are customization, and that Diablo III has "some". It just doesn't have enough, nor does it have the "attachment" you can get with a character in growing a build. Guild Wars' mentality works well for Guild Wars (the skills swapping). It was not a Diablo thing, nor should be. You need to add some sort of permanency and customization to it, something that rewards levelling and player choices, not dependant upon item drops.
Playing PoE for a grand total of around 8 hours (almost as long as the Diablo III beta), I find PoE to have far more depth. And it even feels more like Diablo than Diablo III does! That's not to say that it does everything right. There are many things that it needs to polish, just like D3, and I will be posting a nice big long writeup on their forums on what I think needs to be improved, within the realm of that game. And their skill system was very neat to play with.
You still didn't answer the question though:
What is the difference between the Barbarian having mana that degenerates regaining it after hitting things and having a Barbarian with Fury?
What is the difference between the Wizard's Arcane Power, and simply having Mana regen at a faster rate?
Why not instead have a resource "Fury" that every character can use with physical attacks and is supported with some skills in their repertoire? Why not have Mana for every class, they just use it differently?
It is the skills that determine playstyle, not the resource. Right now the resources are arbitrary. They are "change for the sake of change" They add absolutely zero to the game as they are written write now. What they do is limit the choices in playstyle you have with characters and that is supported by the current stat system and skill system. Thus creating more cookie cutter builds.
You need a "unifying system" that works for all characters in order for the game to make sense.
Class specific items will mean that they are better than all other "universal" items for your class. This will limit diversity. Right now they have far too many class-specific items. Items should be useful by my build and playstyle, not the class I am playing. A wand-wielding barb running around in a pointy hat might sound ridiculous to you, but in someone else's mind it sounds fun, and that kind of thing helps keep the longevity of the game alive.
Then why not have the build "lock" into place at level 60? Or when you start Inferno? Or at some quest that you do that will give you a bonus for doing so? Why does permanency scare so many people?
As far as no proof? People were running around with their skill window open and swapping as they played! What more proof do you need that it will be abused! People will change a build simply to defeat a heavily scripted boss, thus rendering the challenge of playing pointless. People look for an advantage when they can, and when it is easily supplied to them, they will take advantage of it to the point of abuse.
There's a difference between accessible and "idiot-proofing".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FpigqfcvlM&list=FLh40ZwDHNeRs1-1UxOB2pVQ&feature=mh_lolz
This is where they are leaning, and that is wrong.
I agree that the actual release will determine whether the game will be good or not.
http://www.diablofans.com/topic/34229-diablo-iii-beta-impressions/page__view__findpost__p__743763
/agree with making all items usuable by all
/agree no free respecs. although i would like to be able to save builds and pay to switch to a new one you saved
/agree bring stat allocation back ONLY if all equally useful
/disagree with the skill point system, the skill point adding system ive always hated, it makes me feel extremely limited in my builds unless they give you 6 points per level and you can only put 1 point into each skill you want to use id be ok with that.
I would agree not to bring back the skills system as it was in Diablo II. I do agree that every skill needs to be useful, and not a means to an end. I did like the idea of synergies, I just found them poorly implemented in DII. But I find that Diablo III is still lacking in the customization aspect that DII did provide (albeit limited) with their skills. Having "power levels" (via some sort of point system or something) that you have to choose would make it better, and having to choose which would be more powerful would make for a more interesting system. The one thing I disliked about the current system was that all skills end up being their most powerful versions. There was no choice in that.
http://www.diablofans.com/topic/34229-diablo-iii-beta-impressions/page__view__findpost__p__743763
well thats the point, you have a choice of ~124 different skill effects and 18 passives and you can have 6 at max power and 3 passives. wither you achieved this through skill points or not is irrelevent because the outcome is the same. end game is where change matters IMO, not leveling up. because you will level pretty damn fast from 1-60.
were not talking about gear little buddy *pats on head*
no matter how hard i try. i can never out troll you crysto <3
I could not stop laughing while reading this post.