With there being more than 2 trillion possible combinations of skills (2,285,814,795,264 according to Bas, not factoring in several things) i thought that it might be really useful to get skill tabs.
Much like talent trees, instead a skill tree, where you could set skills and passives and then save the build which could be clicked through somewhere to allow the user to change to an new build in an instance instead of having to click each single skill, which is a lengthy process.
This might cause some problems with PVP, but one could just freeze skills in the arena, so that you couldn't change around.
I think this would really help with the flow of the game, because it seems as if they want us to maybe use completely diffrent builds for each boss we might encounter, since one might be very heavy on minions as AoE would be needed, while another would might be only the boss itself and yet another would need really good defences against.
Since I don't have access to the beta, I can't really argue where you might put the hotlinks to these tabs, but one might have them under the skill-popup-window itself, and then be able to bind them to say, F1-F12
Your thoughts? Would it be cool? Would you hate it? Would it work in practice or should it work in a diffrent way if so what? Let the posts commens!
I think it's a good idea! And skill swapping in the arena shouldn't be an issue thanks to 30s cooldown. Though I also don't have an access to the beta, so maybe there are some problems that I can't see.
This idea works really well with League of Legends because of the champion diversity and different roles. In Diablo 3, I dunno, it's not a terrible idea but choosing skills in beta is relatively painless. We'll have to see how it goes once runes are available and swapping them out.
ya i really want this idea put in, i hate the fact that you have to individually repick each skill and you can't just swap to a build you saved before.
+1
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"once the pretty hardcore gamers we had testing inferno found it fairly difficult, we then we doubled it" -trolololol jay wilson
I think it's a good idea! And skill swapping in the arena shouldn't be an issue thanks to 30s cooldown. Though I also don't have an access to the beta, so maybe there are some problems that I can't see.
True the 30s rule does help towards PvP, but I still think it would be better to freeze skills for PvP seeing how people normally wouldn't have time in a PvP match to swap skills around.
This would be a nice feature for them to add somewhere down the line. It works really well in Global Agenda and the skill trees in that aren't very complex either. But it's a convenience, not a necesity, so I'll be happy if they add it in a patch after release.
There are a lot of skills but not enough to not know most of them, and its not that hard to find the D3 skill calculator. I don't see something like this coming to fruition the runestones make this very superficial to implement. You may or may not have the runestones needed to complete the build you saved. Once you pop in a runestone it can only be used to enhance the skill that took it's rune-virginity. You can't just move a runestone around experimenting what it does on every skill.
Not a whole lot of point in discussing skills when we're close to hearing of a revamp to skills and runes anyway
tweaks to skills and how runes drop isnt changing the entire system. lawl
Well, I hope that they revamp the entire system. As is stands it is very underwhelming.
the rune skill system is my most favorite thing about D3 and i think its amazing. it wont be revamped, they never said anything about completely redoing it or anything, just tweaks and then changing how runes drop and such
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"once the pretty hardcore gamers we had testing inferno found it fairly difficult, we then we doubled it" -trolololol jay wilson
Not a whole lot of point in discussing skills when we're close to hearing of a revamp to skills and runes anyway
tweaks to skills and how runes drop isnt changing the entire system. lawl
Well, I hope that they revamp the entire system. As is stands it is very underwhelming.
the rune skill system is my most favorite thing about D3 and i think its amazing. it wont be revamped, they never said anything about completely redoing it or anything, just tweaks and then changing how runes drop and such
That's too bad. There are so many ways they could actually make the system good, but it needs more than a tweaking to do so.
the rune skill system is my most favorite thing about D3 and i think its amazing. it wont be revamped, they never said anything about completely redoing it or anything, just tweaks and then changing how runes drop and such
That's too bad. There are so many ways they could actually make the system good, but it needs more than a tweaking to do so.
im not saying its as good as it could possibly be, im just saying i love it. what changes would you make specifically to the skill system? and i dont mean skill swapping. withOUT adding skil trees.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"once the pretty hardcore gamers we had testing inferno found it fairly difficult, we then we doubled it" -trolololol jay wilson
the rune skill system is my most favorite thing about D3 and i think its amazing. it wont be revamped, they never said anything about completely redoing it or anything, just tweaks and then changing how runes drop and such
That's too bad. There are so many ways they could actually make the system good, but it needs more than a tweaking to do so.
im not saying its as good as it could possibly be, im just saying i love it. what changes would you make specifically to the skill system? and i dont mean skill swapping. withOUT adding skil trees.
I would like to see a variant of skill trees, where you can pick a skill and then "add" abilities to that skill with gems/points/whatever. It can be as easy as Titan Quest's simply choose a bonus to add to your attack (like say Bleeding) and then you can up the level of bleeding with more points. Or you can add a gem to your skill to add elemental damage or some-such. Or even do both. Have level gain bonuses that can make the skill stronger and have multiple slots to stick various gems in. The Runes are a nice start, but are far too limiting. As well, I want more customization within the skills themselves, so that I can up crit chance, or bleeding, or exploding, or stun effects or just the base power level of the skill.
I would like resources within the classes to be revamped as well, as currently they mean nothing. Allow other classes to take advantage of other various resources and then you can have fun customizing a class to your playstyle. Allow skills to take advantage of those resources within each class.
Here's a post I made on another site about that:
[About Resources]
"I will say that when Blizzard announced this change, I liked the idea. That there are more and different resource systems is not a bad thing. What I find bad is there was no reason for them. The classes don't have to have unique play-styles because of the resources -- they have different playstyles because they are different classes! The skills should determine playstyles, so that if you like close combat beatsticking, every (or most) class(es) should "support" that to some degree, although in varying amounts and ability, and in different ways. If you like ranged control, same thing, or if you like glass cannons, or etc. etc.
Blizzard should use the resources to enhance that idea by supporting various resources with all classes.
This is just hashing something out on paper, so bear with me, as it may be clunky, but it as at least something to think about.
There are 4 Resources: "Health", "Mana", "Fury", and "Stamina"
Health operates as it always does, a measure of how many hits you can take before death. It does not regen normally and is mainly governed by the Vitality stat. Other stats can affect it, for example the opponenet's Strength (monster or player) determines how much of a chunk to remove from this resource and your Defense stat determines how much incoming damage is mitigated, but overall, the Vitality stat is most directly involved with this one by determining how much you have.
Mana operates as it always does, a pool with which to power some special abilities. It regenerates slowly (or fast depending upon the class) over time. It is governed by the Intelligence stat, determining the base pool size.
Fury is another pool to power some special abilities. It generates upon all melee attacks and upon getting hit. It degens without use. It is governed by the Strength stat which would determine how much you gain per hit and the speed of it's degen.
Stamina is a pool that governs how quickly or often you can attack as well as sprinting. It regens over time. It is governed by the Dexterity stat and that determines how quickly it regens. Everybody can sprint, but at the cost of Stamina (and make it more like a while you hold the button you are sprinting, and it is draining stamina, defaulting to "off").
With 4 stats, I have a variety of different pools with which to work with now. You can make a Melee class, (we'll use the Barbarian as an example) that uses these pools with which to determine his various skills.
Maybe some skills are Shouts, that use mana. The Barb would have a low mana resource (due to lower intelligence and having no bonuses to the speed of it regen), so his shouts wouldn't really be spammable, unless he focuses his stat alteration on making it spammable (gaining int to make the pool larger, or improved regen rate to increase that, etc.) You control the shouts by making them higher costing in mana. Maybe some cost Stamina as well, thus making him think of two resources. Maybe some cost Fury or even Health.
You give him some AoE skills, as single target killing was the boring part of a Barbarian. So a Cleave skill or the Leap Attack skill fit with that perfectly, and you have them cost some amount of Fury to do, or Mana to do, or both to do.
You give him some ranged abilities, like Magic Axe tossing or something that require more mana than normal and stamina, but give him a ranged option. Or a net that he can toss out to slow enemies or what have you.
Now that's a base. On top of that, some items can net more of a resource than others or alter the resources actions. 2-Handed axes use more Stamina, but they do more damage. Wands use less Mana than normal for attacks, or generate Fury with their magical shot. Maybe magical Staffs use twice the mana for attacks but cause extra damage or effects for spells. Maybe Gauntlets or "fist weapons" generate more fury per attack and use less stamina. Maybe bows can "charge up attacks" to be more powerful, at the cost of using more stamina. Maybe shields can block attacks, but use up stamina to do so. This way you don't have to create "class-specific" items, but you do create items that work "better" with certain classes and builds, and you enable builds that would not maybe be "optimal", but could be fun! (Maybe a dual wand-wielding barbarian could be interesting to play depending on the skills you gave him... ) Right now, every class seems "pigeon-holed" into a playstyle, and that makes the game poorer for it.
You can give wizards melee magical attacks as well that use fury. Maybe a "flaming sword", or a Nova spell. You can give Demon Hunter's the ability to trade their Health for damage or abilities. You can give the Witch Doctor abilities that require Fury as well.
Maybe give Skills "Passive" abilities that you can apply to them individually to "customize them", like an unlock that you can apply to Zombie Dogs that make them earn Fury on their melee attacks. Or Cleave can cause Bleeding damage at the cost of more stamina per attack.
The closest example to this is the Demon Hunter with their dual-resource system. It is just applied poorly in the Demon Hunter's case.
The point is, but making all resources available to all classes and supported through weapons and skills, you can tailor make your play experience for each class, and you create a deeper system. By tying each resource to each class, you are doing nothing but giving them 1 resource with which to work with, Mana, and saying that it operates a different way for each one and then calling it something different "just because". This is my problem with it. It is an arbitrary "change for change's sake" that does nothing to enhance gameplay by itself. Every resource as it stands right now could be called "Mana" and it would not change how the characters would play. The only thing that changes is how each class uses it.
I am not afraid of change for the game. I am completely open to change for D3. I just want to see change that makes sense and has a purpose, within the established Diablo universe!"
I want to see the stat system come back, but I want each stat to mean something for every class. Having only 1 stat that is "important" above all others to such a degree is asinine. Change it so every stat is equally as important and you get rid of the "dump stat" mentality, as well as allow people to enhance their style of play.
Change items to have less class specific ones. This opens up fun ideas. like dual wielding wands for barbarians or some such silly thing. Allow fun things to be viable.
I don't want to see free respecs, I would rather see a respec with a cost, maybe a quest that can unlock you a respec or something.
There are lots of changes that can be made to make for a more fun and open system, that doesn't hand-hold you through all decision-making processes. I mean, the game is "supposed" to be aimed at adults; stop treating us like we're idiots!
the rune skill system is my most favorite thing about D3 and i think its amazing. it wont be revamped, they never said anything about completely redoing it or anything, just tweaks and then changing how runes drop and such
That's too bad. There are so many ways they could actually make the system good, but it needs more than a tweaking to do so.
im not saying its as good as it could possibly be, im just saying i love it. what changes would you make specifically to the skill system? and i dont mean skill swapping. withOUT adding skil trees.
I would like to see a variant of skill trees, where you can pick a skill and then "add" abilities to that skill with gems/points/whatever. It can be as easy as Titan Quest's simply choose a bonus to add to your attack (like say Bleeding) and then you can up the level of bleeding with more points. Or you can add a gem to your skill to add elemental damage or some-such. Or even do both. Have level gain bonuses that can make the skill stronger and have multiple slots to stick various gems in. The Runes are a nice start, but are far too limiting. As well, I want more customization within the skills themselves, so that I can up crit chance, or bleeding, or exploding, or stun effects or just the base power level of the skill.
I would like resources within the classes to be revamped as well, as currently they mean nothing. Allow other classes to take advantage of other various resources and then you can have fun customizing a class to your playstyle. Allow skills to take advantage of those resources within each class.
Here's a post I made on another site about that:
[About Resources]
"I will say that when Blizzard announced this change, I liked the idea. That there are more and different resource systems is not a bad thing. What I find bad is there was no reason for them. The classes don't have to have unique play-styles because of the resources -- they have different playstyles because they are different classes! The skills should determine playstyles, so that if you like close combat beatsticking, every (or most) class(es) should "support" that to some degree, although in varying amounts and ability, and in different ways. If you like ranged control, same thing, or if you like glass cannons, or etc. etc.
Blizzard should use the resources to enhance that idea by supporting various resources with all classes.
This is just hashing something out on paper, so bear with me, as it may be clunky, but it as at least something to think about.
There are 4 Resources: "Health", "Mana", "Fury", and "Stamina"
Health operates as it always does, a measure of how many hits you can take before death. It does not regen normally and is mainly governed by the Vitality stat. Other stats can affect it, for example the opponenet's Strength (monster or player) determines how much of a chunk to remove from this resource and your Defense stat determines how much incoming damage is mitigated, but overall, the Vitality stat is most directly involved with this one by determining how much you have.
Mana operates as it always does, a pool with which to power some special abilities. It regenerates slowly (or fast depending upon the class) over time. It is governed by the Intelligence stat, determining the base pool size.
Fury is another pool to power some special abilities. It generates upon all melee attacks and upon getting hit. It degens without use. It is governed by the Strength stat which would determine how much you gain per hit and the speed of it's degen.
Stamina is a pool that governs how quickly or often you can attack as well as sprinting. It regens over time. It is governed by the Dexterity stat and that determines how quickly it regens. Everybody can sprint, but at the cost of Stamina (and make it more like a while you hold the button you are sprinting, and it is draining stamina, defaulting to "off").
With 4 stats, I have a variety of different pools with which to work with now. You can make a Melee class, (we'll use the Barbarian as an example) that uses these pools with which to determine his various skills.
Maybe some skills are Shouts, that use mana. The Barb would have a low mana resource (due to lower intelligence and having no bonuses to the speed of it regen), so his shouts wouldn't really be spammable, unless he focuses his stat alteration on making it spammable (gaining int to make the pool larger, or improved regen rate to increase that, etc.) You control the shouts by making them higher costing in mana. Maybe some cost Stamina as well, thus making him think of two resources. Maybe some cost Fury or even Health.
You give him some AoE skills, as single target killing was the boring part of a Barbarian. So a Cleave skill or the Leap Attack skill fit with that perfectly, and you have them cost some amount of Fury to do, or Mana to do, or both to do.
You give him some ranged abilities, like Magic Axe tossing or something that require more mana than normal and stamina, but give him a ranged option. Or a net that he can toss out to slow enemies or what have you.
Now that's a base. On top of that, some items can net more of a resource than others or alter the resources actions. 2-Handed axes use more Stamina, but they do more damage. Wands use less Mana than normal for attacks, or generate Fury with their magical shot. Maybe magical Staffs use twice the mana for attacks but cause extra damage or effects for spells. Maybe Gauntlets or "fist weapons" generate more fury per attack and use less stamina. Maybe bows can "charge up attacks" to be more powerful, at the cost of using more stamina. Maybe shields can block attacks, but use up stamina to do so. This way you don't have to create "class-specific" items, but you do create items that work "better" with certain classes and builds, and you enable builds that would not maybe be "optimal", but could be fun! (Maybe a dual wand-wielding barbarian could be interesting to play depending on the skills you gave him... ) Right now, every class seems "pigeon-holed" into a playstyle, and that makes the game poorer for it.
You can give wizards melee magical attacks as well that use fury. Maybe a "flaming sword", or a Nova spell. You can give Demon Hunter's the ability to trade their Health for damage or abilities. You can give the Witch Doctor abilities that require Fury as well.
Maybe give Skills "Passive" abilities that you can apply to them individually to "customize them", like an unlock that you can apply to Zombie Dogs that make them earn Fury on their melee attacks. Or Cleave can cause Bleeding damage at the cost of more stamina per attack.
The closest example to this is the Demon Hunter with their dual-resource system. It is just applied poorly in the Demon Hunter's case.
The point is, but making all resources available to all classes and supported through weapons and skills, you can tailor make your play experience for each class, and you create a deeper system. By tying each resource to each class, you are doing nothing but giving them 1 resource with which to work with, Mana, and saying that it operates a different way for each one and then calling it something different "just because". This is my problem with it. It is an arbitrary "change for change's sake" that does nothing to enhance gameplay by itself. Every resource as it stands right now could be called "Mana" and it would not change how the characters would play. The only thing that changes is how each class uses it.
I am not afraid of change for the game. I am completely open to change for D3. I just want to see change that makes sense and has a purpose, within the established Diablo universe!"
I want to see the stat system come back, but I want each stat to mean something for every class. Having only 1 stat that is "important" above all others to such a degree is asinine. Change it so every stat is equally as important and you get rid of the "dump stat" mentality, as well as allow people to enhance their style of play.
Change items to have less class specific ones. This opens up fun ideas. like dual wielding wands for barbarians or some such silly thing. Allow fun things to be viable.
I don't want to see free respecs, I would rather see a respec with a cost, maybe a quest that can unlock you a respec or something.
There are lots of changes that can be made to make for a more fun and open system, that doesn't hand-hold you through all decision-making processes. I mean, the game is "supposed" to be aimed at adults; stop treating us like we're idiots!
Without flaming, it sounds, to a degree, that you want to play D2. The systems implemented imho are completely fine, in fact besides loot the skill system in general is what's got me the most excited about D3.
They took away allocating stats per level, and instead implemented choosing stats based on gear. They're not gone, they are just in a different, and imo, better place. This is because builds are going to rely on stats, and while sure you could just respec and put in your stats differently, it's a lot more fun, at least to me, to try to find gear that fits your style. Since Diablo revolves around gear.
I see what you mean about variants of skill trees, and popping in gems and such to change your skills. Buuuut, I really don't think that's the way to go with Diablo. There's already over 120 skills per class (counting runestones), where you can only pick 6. Customization after that comes from affixes on items, such as plus elemental damage, or changes to resources ect. Adding stuff like stuns and bleeds to your skills, while it can be done, will require a lot of balancing issues. It's a nice thought, but I think they are better left to the games that already have them, such as PoE and such. To be perfectly honest, my gut reaction after hearing PoE's skill system was bad. Sure adding up to what, 4 gems per skill to change the skill and then having to level that gem by constantly using that skill sounds cool on paper, but I really don't think I'd like a system like that. Just my opinion.
Now as far as you saying the current resources mean nothing, confuses me. They mean everything to the class, they ARE the playstyle. For instance the monk's spirit is akin to combination points; You build up combo points (spirit) and then spend them on what you want. The wizards AP means using any skill is easy, but it limits spamming, which gets rid of the need to nerf the spells because you won't be able to constantly cast. I can go on with the rest of the resources but hopefully you get my point; Every resource has effectively helped balance the classes while making them fun. Saying they mean nothing is far from the truth.
There's already fun, strange ideas as far as weapons and builds go, such as a melee wizard, or a spear / shield DH. Making it so a barb can not only dual wield wands, but making it viable is slightly ridiculous imo. Also, talking about class specific items, I think it creates more diversity. There will already be thousands of items that anyone can use, adding *some* that are class specific helps change that up.
Now on the whole argument of free respeccing or adding a cost; It won't matter. If I want to respec, I'm going to do it whether there's a cost or not. There NOT being a cost actually helps a lot of players, as it encourages experimentation without the fear of ruining a build or a character. I can tell you right now there's MANY skills I've never tried in my years of playing D2 just because I didn't want to ruin my toon because I was unsure if I really wanted that skill. I can also tell you that almost every player, after experimenting, will pick and stick with a build. This fear of people constantly changing is unmerited as there's no proof, we need to wait until release.
As far as your closing statements go, I really don't think they are treating anyone anywhere close to idiots. They are making the game accessible to casuals, which face it without the 90% of casuals to buy the game, there wouldn't BE a game, just not enough money in it. They've done a very good job of making D3 casual friendly, in normal mode. The latter difficulties (which as cited a million times before, 90% of players in D2 didn't reach past nightmare) is aimed at the HC minority of the fanbase. THAT'S where we, the HC fans who troll this website =P will be, and that's where the challenge is.
TLDR; It's going to be an awesome game, and while some concerns are legitimate, I believe we need to wait until release before a final verdict is thrown out.
+1 to what Snaks said, though I'd like to see the game myself to be confident it feels as they say it should (build diversity, flexible skills, a variety of usable prefixes and affixes, awesome gearhunt and so on). If it doesn't, then it was shameless advertisement all along (read "treating us like idiots"). But I tend to believe the game is going to be as awesome as they say.
I think it's a good idea! And skill swapping in the arena shouldn't be an issue thanks to 30s cooldown. Though I also don't have an access to the beta, so maybe there are some problems that I can't see.
True the 30s rule does help towards PvP, but I still think it would be better to freeze skills for PvP seeing how people normally wouldn't have time in a PvP match to swap skills around.
I see the point, but I don't see any harm in allowing skill swapping with 30s cd, especially in a 15min deathmatch. PVP is about countering, players could find skill swapping useful, but with 30s cd they will be forced to choose wisely. I can't see it ruining balance or something.
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Much like talent trees, instead a skill tree, where you could set skills and passives and then save the build which could be clicked through somewhere to allow the user to change to an new build in an instance instead of having to click each single skill, which is a lengthy process.
This might cause some problems with PVP, but one could just freeze skills in the arena, so that you couldn't change around.
I think this would really help with the flow of the game, because it seems as if they want us to maybe use completely diffrent builds for each boss we might encounter, since one might be very heavy on minions as AoE would be needed, while another would might be only the boss itself and yet another would need really good defences against.
Since I don't have access to the beta, I can't really argue where you might put the hotlinks to these tabs, but one might have them under the skill-popup-window itself, and then be able to bind them to say, F1-F12
Your thoughts? Would it be cool? Would you hate it? Would it work in practice or should it work in a diffrent way if so what? Let the posts commens!
Battle.net Profile / Diablo Progress Profile
+1
tweaks to skills and how runes drop isnt changing the entire system. lawl
Well, I hope that they revamp the entire system. As is stands it is very underwhelming.
http://www.diablofans.com/topic/34229-diablo-iii-beta-impressions/page__view__findpost__p__743763
the rune skill system is my most favorite thing about D3 and i think its amazing. it wont be revamped, they never said anything about completely redoing it or anything, just tweaks and then changing how runes drop and such
That's too bad. There are so many ways they could actually make the system good, but it needs more than a tweaking to do so.
http://www.diablofans.com/topic/34229-diablo-iii-beta-impressions/page__view__findpost__p__743763
im not saying its as good as it could possibly be, im just saying i love it. what changes would you make specifically to the skill system? and i dont mean skill swapping. withOUT adding skil trees.
I would like to see a variant of skill trees, where you can pick a skill and then "add" abilities to that skill with gems/points/whatever. It can be as easy as Titan Quest's simply choose a bonus to add to your attack (like say Bleeding) and then you can up the level of bleeding with more points. Or you can add a gem to your skill to add elemental damage or some-such. Or even do both. Have level gain bonuses that can make the skill stronger and have multiple slots to stick various gems in. The Runes are a nice start, but are far too limiting. As well, I want more customization within the skills themselves, so that I can up crit chance, or bleeding, or exploding, or stun effects or just the base power level of the skill.
I would like resources within the classes to be revamped as well, as currently they mean nothing. Allow other classes to take advantage of other various resources and then you can have fun customizing a class to your playstyle. Allow skills to take advantage of those resources within each class.
Here's a post I made on another site about that:
[About Resources]
"I will say that when Blizzard announced this change, I liked the idea. That there are more and different resource systems is not a bad thing. What I find bad is there was no reason for them. The classes don't have to have unique play-styles because of the resources -- they have different playstyles because they are different classes! The skills should determine playstyles, so that if you like close combat beatsticking, every (or most) class(es) should "support" that to some degree, although in varying amounts and ability, and in different ways. If you like ranged control, same thing, or if you like glass cannons, or etc. etc.
Blizzard should use the resources to enhance that idea by supporting various resources with all classes.
This is just hashing something out on paper, so bear with me, as it may be clunky, but it as at least something to think about.
There are 4 Resources: "Health", "Mana", "Fury", and "Stamina"
Health operates as it always does, a measure of how many hits you can take before death. It does not regen normally and is mainly governed by the Vitality stat. Other stats can affect it, for example the opponenet's Strength (monster or player) determines how much of a chunk to remove from this resource and your Defense stat determines how much incoming damage is mitigated, but overall, the Vitality stat is most directly involved with this one by determining how much you have.
Mana operates as it always does, a pool with which to power some special abilities. It regenerates slowly (or fast depending upon the class) over time. It is governed by the Intelligence stat, determining the base pool size.
Fury is another pool to power some special abilities. It generates upon all melee attacks and upon getting hit. It degens without use. It is governed by the Strength stat which would determine how much you gain per hit and the speed of it's degen.
Stamina is a pool that governs how quickly or often you can attack as well as sprinting. It regens over time. It is governed by the Dexterity stat and that determines how quickly it regens. Everybody can sprint, but at the cost of Stamina (and make it more like a while you hold the button you are sprinting, and it is draining stamina, defaulting to "off").
With 4 stats, I have a variety of different pools with which to work with now. You can make a Melee class, (we'll use the Barbarian as an example) that uses these pools with which to determine his various skills.
Maybe some skills are Shouts, that use mana. The Barb would have a low mana resource (due to lower intelligence and having no bonuses to the speed of it regen), so his shouts wouldn't really be spammable, unless he focuses his stat alteration on making it spammable (gaining int to make the pool larger, or improved regen rate to increase that, etc.) You control the shouts by making them higher costing in mana. Maybe some cost Stamina as well, thus making him think of two resources. Maybe some cost Fury or even Health.
You give him some AoE skills, as single target killing was the boring part of a Barbarian. So a Cleave skill or the Leap Attack skill fit with that perfectly, and you have them cost some amount of Fury to do, or Mana to do, or both to do.
You give him some ranged abilities, like Magic Axe tossing or something that require more mana than normal and stamina, but give him a ranged option. Or a net that he can toss out to slow enemies or what have you.
Now that's a base. On top of that, some items can net more of a resource than others or alter the resources actions. 2-Handed axes use more Stamina, but they do more damage. Wands use less Mana than normal for attacks, or generate Fury with their magical shot. Maybe magical Staffs use twice the mana for attacks but cause extra damage or effects for spells. Maybe Gauntlets or "fist weapons" generate more fury per attack and use less stamina. Maybe bows can "charge up attacks" to be more powerful, at the cost of using more stamina. Maybe shields can block attacks, but use up stamina to do so. This way you don't have to create "class-specific" items, but you do create items that work "better" with certain classes and builds, and you enable builds that would not maybe be "optimal", but could be fun! (Maybe a dual wand-wielding barbarian could be interesting to play depending on the skills you gave him... ) Right now, every class seems "pigeon-holed" into a playstyle, and that makes the game poorer for it.
You can give wizards melee magical attacks as well that use fury. Maybe a "flaming sword", or a Nova spell. You can give Demon Hunter's the ability to trade their Health for damage or abilities. You can give the Witch Doctor abilities that require Fury as well.
Maybe give Skills "Passive" abilities that you can apply to them individually to "customize them", like an unlock that you can apply to Zombie Dogs that make them earn Fury on their melee attacks. Or Cleave can cause Bleeding damage at the cost of more stamina per attack.
The closest example to this is the Demon Hunter with their dual-resource system. It is just applied poorly in the Demon Hunter's case.
The point is, but making all resources available to all classes and supported through weapons and skills, you can tailor make your play experience for each class, and you create a deeper system. By tying each resource to each class, you are doing nothing but giving them 1 resource with which to work with, Mana, and saying that it operates a different way for each one and then calling it something different "just because". This is my problem with it. It is an arbitrary "change for change's sake" that does nothing to enhance gameplay by itself. Every resource as it stands right now could be called "Mana" and it would not change how the characters would play. The only thing that changes is how each class uses it.
I am not afraid of change for the game. I am completely open to change for D3. I just want to see change that makes sense and has a purpose, within the established Diablo universe!"
I want to see the stat system come back, but I want each stat to mean something for every class. Having only 1 stat that is "important" above all others to such a degree is asinine. Change it so every stat is equally as important and you get rid of the "dump stat" mentality, as well as allow people to enhance their style of play.
Change items to have less class specific ones. This opens up fun ideas. like dual wielding wands for barbarians or some such silly thing. Allow fun things to be viable.
I don't want to see free respecs, I would rather see a respec with a cost, maybe a quest that can unlock you a respec or something.
There are lots of changes that can be made to make for a more fun and open system, that doesn't hand-hold you through all decision-making processes. I mean, the game is "supposed" to be aimed at adults; stop treating us like we're idiots!
http://www.diablofans.com/topic/34229-diablo-iii-beta-impressions/page__view__findpost__p__743763
guys do the math here add up all the numbers
2,15,13,21,12
The announcement is clearly going to be Febuary 15th 1:21 am/pm, 2012
for anyone wondering http://forums.battle...678&sid=3000#27 thats the source in which he speaks, also its al the very bottom.
it was tweeted today https://twitter.com/...756893689454592
How freaky of a coinsidence would that be since that was posted back in August, unless they knew all along.
https://www.deviantart.com/aerisot
I'm holdin you to that =D
Without flaming, it sounds, to a degree, that you want to play D2. The systems implemented imho are completely fine, in fact besides loot the skill system in general is what's got me the most excited about D3.
They took away allocating stats per level, and instead implemented choosing stats based on gear. They're not gone, they are just in a different, and imo, better place. This is because builds are going to rely on stats, and while sure you could just respec and put in your stats differently, it's a lot more fun, at least to me, to try to find gear that fits your style. Since Diablo revolves around gear.
I see what you mean about variants of skill trees, and popping in gems and such to change your skills. Buuuut, I really don't think that's the way to go with Diablo. There's already over 120 skills per class (counting runestones), where you can only pick 6. Customization after that comes from affixes on items, such as plus elemental damage, or changes to resources ect. Adding stuff like stuns and bleeds to your skills, while it can be done, will require a lot of balancing issues. It's a nice thought, but I think they are better left to the games that already have them, such as PoE and such. To be perfectly honest, my gut reaction after hearing PoE's skill system was bad. Sure adding up to what, 4 gems per skill to change the skill and then having to level that gem by constantly using that skill sounds cool on paper, but I really don't think I'd like a system like that. Just my opinion.
Now as far as you saying the current resources mean nothing, confuses me. They mean everything to the class, they ARE the playstyle. For instance the monk's spirit is akin to combination points; You build up combo points (spirit) and then spend them on what you want. The wizards AP means using any skill is easy, but it limits spamming, which gets rid of the need to nerf the spells because you won't be able to constantly cast. I can go on with the rest of the resources but hopefully you get my point; Every resource has effectively helped balance the classes while making them fun. Saying they mean nothing is far from the truth.
There's already fun, strange ideas as far as weapons and builds go, such as a melee wizard, or a spear / shield DH. Making it so a barb can not only dual wield wands, but making it viable is slightly ridiculous imo. Also, talking about class specific items, I think it creates more diversity. There will already be thousands of items that anyone can use, adding *some* that are class specific helps change that up.
Now on the whole argument of free respeccing or adding a cost; It won't matter. If I want to respec, I'm going to do it whether there's a cost or not. There NOT being a cost actually helps a lot of players, as it encourages experimentation without the fear of ruining a build or a character. I can tell you right now there's MANY skills I've never tried in my years of playing D2 just because I didn't want to ruin my toon because I was unsure if I really wanted that skill. I can also tell you that almost every player, after experimenting, will pick and stick with a build. This fear of people constantly changing is unmerited as there's no proof, we need to wait until release.
As far as your closing statements go, I really don't think they are treating anyone anywhere close to idiots. They are making the game accessible to casuals, which face it without the 90% of casuals to buy the game, there wouldn't BE a game, just not enough money in it. They've done a very good job of making D3 casual friendly, in normal mode. The latter difficulties (which as cited a million times before, 90% of players in D2 didn't reach past nightmare) is aimed at the HC minority of the fanbase. THAT'S where we, the HC fans who troll this website =P will be, and that's where the challenge is.
TLDR; It's going to be an awesome game, and while some concerns are legitimate, I believe we need to wait until release before a final verdict is thrown out.
I see the point, but I don't see any harm in allowing skill swapping with 30s cd, especially in a 15min deathmatch. PVP is about countering, players could find skill swapping useful, but with 30s cd they will be forced to choose wisely. I can't see it ruining balance or something.