barb can be replaced with wiz and dh supports, both of which sacrifice a few globes, optional movementspeed buffs, and ignore pain in order to provide nearly equal toughness buffs and much larger damage buffs to group.
zdh also plays the role of tagging monsters very easily without even needing to leave group as the build runs marauders 4set bonus so you can place a sentry and shoot MS windchill offscreen. wiz offers grouping skills too. both can be made quite mobile.
to put it into perspective, at around 1200 paragon in season 11, my friends and I ran gr 111 for #897 4man clear with znec/zdh/2rathma where we barely had a 108 with zbarb instead of zdh. on the other hand, frozen elites gave us more trouble but all was well as we consistently cleared 109s.
for those who play 2man and 3man, zwiz and zdh prime choices for supports there. zdh + RGK necro was a top 2man comp in season 11, and both of these support classes fit into 1 dpser 3man comps quite well.
@yuseixyan as you said, zWiz and zDH have their niche, the zmonk and zbar are the only choices in the 4s pushing meta, which is my complaint because they have been for the past many seasons. I am actually for the nerfing of these zdps and I'm against power creep, as I do not feel it's healthy for the game.
in 4s meta though, the niche isnt as strong now that WD may not be exactly the top choice for 1 of the dps slots (there are some alternatives especially both channel meteor wizards) as not every class gets the same benefit as WD from a few globes. zwiz and zdh are then weighing more damage vs ignore pain and movespeed, essentially.
I tried a zDps Crusader build that caught my eye awhile ago last season and it was totally viable: you're healing via blocking, plus you've got the big regen circles under everyone all the time. Then, if I recall it's Roland based so you're pulling things in with Sweep Attack. Finally, everyone's resistances are pretty high because you're activating long arm of the law frequently.
zsader might be fun and have benefits - but the unfortunate truth is that, it simply will never be as good or better than zmonk or zbar which is what I DON'T like. I encourage players to play what they want to play and what is fun though and not chase after whatever the top clear is doing.
zsader might be fun and have benefits - but the unfortunate truth is that, it simply will never be as good or better than zmonk or zbar which is what I DON'T like.
Well, don't say "never" because we can always hope, right? It would be nice if all classes had a solid support option. Hats off to Blizz for all the 2.6.1 buffs and how these changes will bring more variety in power level. But, support options still need serious attention. 'Saders just naturally have a support feel to them -- you got the big shield, charging into the fray on a steed. It really wouldn't take much effort to make them viable support toons if that healing shield was buffed and those regen circles were buffed too. And probably a buff to a law for flat damage reduction.
I'm actually rather curious whether or not zDH + Condemn Crusader could replace zMonk + Firebats WD. Condemn isn't that far off from Firebats, when I compared them it was something like 14T peak DPS for Firebats and 12T peak DPS for Condemn.
Firebats has the advantage of considerably more Area Damage, but Condemn scales far better with damage increases from zDPS builds (as they're actually at -10% DIBS compared to +88% DIBS), and Condemn is able to create its own density meaning you don't need Cyclone Strike. Condemn is also able to reposition freely without losing DPS, Firebats is basically immobile by comparison with Endless Walk and Taeguk.
Edit: Area Damage is pretty broken though, and AD is really hard to fit into a Condemn build, so none of this may actually mater.
My thoughts on the current meta focusing on zdps: https://youtu.be/WzlbgO6osnM
TL:DR I'm sick of zmonk & zbar
Please check it out and let me know what you think - much love
Bonus: This is my idea of making seasons way better instead of the same formula they have been doing: https://youtu.be/eWCtKIlOhDc
TL:DR shake the meta upside down completely
barb can be replaced with wiz and dh supports, both of which sacrifice a few globes, optional movementspeed buffs, and ignore pain in order to provide nearly equal toughness buffs and much larger damage buffs to group.
zdh also plays the role of tagging monsters very easily without even needing to leave group as the build runs marauders 4set bonus so you can place a sentry and shoot MS windchill offscreen. wiz offers grouping skills too. both can be made quite mobile.
to put it into perspective, at around 1200 paragon in season 11, my friends and I ran gr 111 for #897 4man clear with znec/zdh/2rathma where we barely had a 108 with zbarb instead of zdh. on the other hand, frozen elites gave us more trouble but all was well as we consistently cleared 109s.
for those who play 2man and 3man, zwiz and zdh prime choices for supports there. zdh + RGK necro was a top 2man comp in season 11, and both of these support classes fit into 1 dpser 3man comps quite well.
@yuseixyan as you said, zWiz and zDH have their niche, the zmonk and zbar are the only choices in the 4s pushing meta, which is my complaint because they have been for the past many seasons. I am actually for the nerfing of these zdps and I'm against power creep, as I do not feel it's healthy for the game.
in 4s meta though, the niche isnt as strong now that WD may not be exactly the top choice for 1 of the dps slots (there are some alternatives especially both channel meteor wizards) as not every class gets the same benefit as WD from a few globes. zwiz and zdh are then weighing more damage vs ignore pain and movespeed, essentially.
I tried a zDps Crusader build that caught my eye awhile ago last season and it was totally viable: you're healing via blocking, plus you've got the big regen circles under everyone all the time. Then, if I recall it's Roland based so you're pulling things in with Sweep Attack. Finally, everyone's resistances are pretty high because you're activating long arm of the law frequently.
zsader might be fun and have benefits - but the unfortunate truth is that, it simply will never be as good or better than zmonk or zbar which is what I DON'T like. I encourage players to play what they want to play and what is fun though and not chase after whatever the top clear is doing.
Well, don't say "never" because we can always hope, right? It would be nice if all classes had a solid support option. Hats off to Blizz for all the 2.6.1 buffs and how these changes will bring more variety in power level. But, support options still need serious attention. 'Saders just naturally have a support feel to them -- you got the big shield, charging into the fray on a steed. It really wouldn't take much effort to make them viable support toons if that healing shield was buffed and those regen circles were buffed too. And probably a buff to a law for flat damage reduction.
I'm actually rather curious whether or not zDH + Condemn Crusader could replace zMonk + Firebats WD. Condemn isn't that far off from Firebats, when I compared them it was something like 14T peak DPS for Firebats and 12T peak DPS for Condemn.
Firebats has the advantage of considerably more Area Damage, but Condemn scales far better with damage increases from zDPS builds (as they're actually at -10% DIBS compared to +88% DIBS), and Condemn is able to create its own density meaning you don't need Cyclone Strike. Condemn is also able to reposition freely without losing DPS, Firebats is basically immobile by comparison with Endless Walk and Taeguk.
Edit: Area Damage is pretty broken though, and AD is really hard to fit into a Condemn build, so none of this may actually mater.