I mean i personally have 3 friends who have botted since day 3 of season 24/7 unless dc'd randomly overnight or something happened w/e. One got hit on 1 of 4 accounts. Other 2 have all 4 accounts each still running atm.
Too bad no one banned you. Knowing of botters and not reporting... Vnice kid
I mean im not gonna report friends. I could care less if they bot. It doesn't change anything. One doesn't even push leaderboards. He literally bots because its like a phone game just something to do. Other might push hard to say. And obviously the 3rd actually did and got banned.
They just need to ban monthly or at least every season. Its just dumb we haven't had a real ban wave like this since before seasons.
I mean i personally have 3 friends who have botted since day 3 of season 24/7 unless dc'd randomly overnight or something happened w/e. One got hit on 1 of 4 accounts. Other 2 have all 4 accounts each still running atm.
Too bad no one banned you. Knowing of botters and not reporting... Vnice kid
I mean im not gonna report friends. I could care less if they bot. It doesn't change anything. One doesn't even push leaderboards. He literally bots because its like a phone game just something to do. Other might push hard to say. And obviously the 3rd actually did and got banned.
They just need to ban monthly or at least every season. Its just dumb we haven't had a real ban wave like this since before seasons.
It does matter though, maybe not to you, but your view is not a global view, please understand that.
So I'm rank 1 paragon NA now at 3130 by playing 16 hours a day on average. Got Rank #1 4 player and 2 of my team got banned so I guess my 4p clear should be removed? It's not the players job to be the botting police lol. I'm here to play at a high lvl, push leaderboards, and have fun. I hate to speak the truth but you guys think this ban wave fixes the game are wrong. The root problem is the paragon system giving too much bonus damage to anyone who can and is willing to play all day, everyday. If anything botting makes the game better. You should be able to play this game 6-8 hours a day and not feel like you are at a huge handicap because you are doing 70% less damage than the top paragon players. Not only does this make people feel like they can't compete but it also splits the player base where groups of people only play with others around the same paragon lvl for efficiency reasons. Anyways have fun with your little witch hunt and feel free to nerd rage at my post = D
Paragon is absolutely a problem, no doubt. I'm actually pretty happy a constant rank #1 leaderboard player has said so as well, considering all the counter arguments such as 'paragon doesn't give very much power, so it doesn't matter'.
However, to your first point; yes. Your spot should be wiped because you had players in your 4 person that were botting. Simple as that.
Regarding LB removal, I think it depends on the difference in power between the 2 banned players vs that of the remaining players. If the 2 remainders were running zDPS to support those who were banned, then this seems like a no-brainer to me - the LB record should be removed. On the other hand, if all 4 party members were of comparable lvl/gear and if cheats were not used within the GR, it would seem unfair to penalise a legit player for grouping with a cheater.
I think that if GR fishing was less beneficial, records could be wiped without impacting the LB records of legit players, since they could just party with other high LB legit players and make a new record. I also think that having all of the records associated with cheat accounts would remove some of the outliers in LB, which would more accurately reflect what the playerbase has accomplished within a season.
The reality at the moment, is that GRs are too RNG dependant; we need randomness, but only to a certain extent, especially if GR is infinite scaling. Due to this issue, penalising legit players would be unfair, because they are not guaranteed a LB spot which accurately reflects the balance between their toon's power and the 'skill' of the player.
Well, I'll start off by saying that I am a botter. Do I value my account? To some extent, but would it ruin my life if it got terminated? Nah. So a little bit about me and why I choose to bot; I am active duty military serving overseas. I work in a very high tempo environment and my time to play is limited. Some of you feel that this is a valid reason for me to enjoy the game less than you do. I think we can all agree that end game is where the enjoyment comes from. Having the gear and paragons to run GRs with friends and push some higher GRs is what I bot for. I cannot afford to sit in front of my computer for 16 hours a day grinding out materials and levels and gear to ultimately get to the part where I can enjoy the game.
I don't have 1000 keys sitting in my bank or pages full of mats. I am barely over 1000 paragon, but fairly close to 1500. Yes, I do have really good gear. No, I am not even ranked on the leaderboards. I don't play for bragging rights or to flex my epeen at the end of the season. I have botted fairly conservatively. 8 hrs most in one session and most of the time anywhere from 2-5 days a week randomly selected days.
As Chainer said, in the current system, even at my current paragon level, most people do not want to group because my PL is considered low. So my ability to play outside of a small group of friends is limited. This essentially bottlenecks the community into different tiers that are not even based on skill, but on time put into the game. The community gets smaller by the day and different aspects drive different people away, but I can assure you that the botters, even the 24/7 ones helped sustain the community. Many of you condemn botters, but at the same time you have benefitted from botters. You do not suffer the consequences of account closure but in some way, running in that group with a botter you benefitted. Should all accounts be wiped then? Ignorance is one thing, but a lot of you are being very hypocritical. You celebrate the bans when you benefitted in the end. Botting is not the problem here. Bots provide a means to and end. Most bots cannot run past GR80 roughly, so these people you feel threatened by on the leaderboards did not have the bot get them their rank. Like I said, the bot provided a means to afford that opportunity for them to rank but it did not get it for them. So this brings me back to my original statement. I don't have the means to put in the same amount of time as a streamer. You want a competition based on skill, but currently skill is not the determining factor, its time. But I should be at a disadvantage because I cannot afford to use donations or my mom and dad's savings account to support me? I'm not knocking people's lifestyles but right now Blizzard has dictated that these are the factors that will divide the playerbase.
Well, I'll start off by saying that I am a botter. Do I value my account? To some extent, but would it ruin my life if it got terminated? Nah. So a little bit about me and why I choose to bot; I am active duty military serving overseas. I work in a very high tempo environment and my time to play is limited. Some of you feel that this is a valid reason for me to enjoy the game less than you do. I think we can all agree that end game is where the enjoyment comes from. Having the gear and paragons to run GRs with friends and push some higher GRs is what I bot for. I cannot afford to sit in front of my computer for 16 hours a day grinding out materials and levels and gear to ultimately get to the part where I can enjoy the game.
I don't have 1000 keys sitting in my bank or pages full of mats. I am barely over 1000 paragon, but fairly close to 1500. Yes, I do have really good gear. No, I am not even ranked on the leaderboards. I don't play for bragging rights or to flex my epeen at the end of the season. I have botted fairly conservatively. 8 hrs most in one session and most of the time anywhere from 2-5 days a week randomly selected days.
As Chainer said, in the current system, even at my current paragon level, most people do not want to group because my PL is considered low. So my ability to play outside of a small group of friends is limited. This essentially bottlenecks the community into different tiers that are not even based on skill, but on time put into the game. The community gets smaller by the day and different aspects drive different people away, but I can assure you that the botters, even the 24/7 ones helped sustain the community. Many of you condemn botters, but at the same time you have benefitted from botters. You do not suffer the consequences of account closure but in some way, running in that group with a botter you benefitted. Should all accounts be wiped then? Ignorance is one thing, but a lot of you are being very hypocritical. You celebrate the bans when you benefitted in the end. Botting is not the problem here. Bots provide a means to and end. Most bots cannot run past GR80 roughly, so these people you feel threatened by on the leaderboards did not have the bot get them their rank. Like I said, the bot provided a means to afford that opportunity for them to rank but it did not get it for them. So this brings me back to my original statement. I don't have the means to put in the same amount of time as a streamer. You want a competition based on skill, but currently skill is not the determining factor, its time. But I should be at a disadvantage because I cannot afford to use donations or my mom and dad's savings account to support me? I'm not knocking people's lifestyles but right now Blizzard has dictated that these are the factors that will divide the playerbase.
TLDR: I'm a botter, ban me idc.
Tldr, I blame the system because I am selfish. I think this game should be made and tailored for me. I abuse the system because I don't have time nor the energy to play legitimately. Fixed that for you.
[snip]
An honest, thoughtful and considered post. It's interesting to hear from different people and get an idea of what the player base is thinking. It's clear that there's a large difference between this type of bot use and, for example, someone who makes money from streaming/being at the top of the game. I think if you are amongst the elite and vying for top of the leader boards, part of that achievement has to be dedication and sacrifice - like a pro sportsman has to make - so using a bot to cut out the less desirable parts and still expect the credit and all the upside is inherently wrong.
[snip]
An honest, thoughtful and considered post. It's interesting to hear from different people and get an idea of what the player base is thinking. It's clear that there's a large difference between this type of bot use and, for example, someone who makes money from streaming/being at the top of the game. I think if you are amongst the elite and vying for top of the leader boards, part of that achievement has to be dedication and sacrifice - like a pro sportsman has to make - so using a bot to cut out the less desirable parts and still expect the credit and all the upside is inherently wrong.
It's not original. It's not considerate posting. It isn't interesting. It's run of the mill, woe is me, type of post. With a do something about it at the end. He has to throw in that he is a service member, as some kind of stop gap for his behavior. He is trying to excuse the behavior to cope with making a decision. He might not care, but if he didn't care, he wouldn't bot. You can't have it both ways.
He is not tryint to make up excuses, he simply explains his point of veiw and why he have chosen what he did.
At least it's better than you people who cannot even have a fruitable discussion about the matter.
If this game had been anything like a competative game, or massive online game I would get it - it would affected you if people cheated. But Diablo 3 is game with some very, VERY simple multiplayer elements. Basically it is a singleplayer game with a simple leaderboard. Still you people who has not experienced real world problems like work, family, responsibilities and who take the game way too serious than what it's meant to, come here and spew hatefull messages to and about people who ultimately does not affect you. If anything it tells more about you than these botters who bot for the fun of it / to enjoy the game for their own means.
D3 community, or rather Diablofans is one of the worst communities I have ever withnessed. There is so much hate, envy, arrogance and betterknowing here. Seldom is there a good discussions where points of veiws from different camps are enlightened. Usually it is the "moral keepers" who sits on their high horse and pass judgement upon the "filth" of the community for destroying their sacred multi...singleplayer experience.
I wish leaderboards where never introduced, then the community - specially this one might had been a nicer place where we could have nice discussions.
Do you want nobody to play diablo 3 anymore then? Thud is an overlay and nothing more. Its everybody blizzard should do but doesnt because we do have THUD, blizzard employees use it as well.
If you think BOTTING is less cheating then THUD your clueless then. THUD isnt a bot program, you still are at your keyboard playing. Botters can play 24/7 without being at your computer.
I mean i personally have 3 friends who have botted since day 3 of season 24/7 unless dc'd randomly overnight or something happened w/e. One got hit on 1 of 4 accounts. Other 2 have all 4 accounts each still running atm.
Too bad no one banned you. Knowing of botters and not reporting... Vnice kid
I mean im not gonna report friends. I could care less if they bot. It doesn't change anything. One doesn't even push leaderboards. He literally bots because its like a phone game just something to do. Other might push hard to say. And obviously the 3rd actually did and got banned.
They just need to ban monthly or at least every season. Its just dumb we haven't had a real ban wave like this since before seasons.
It does matter though, maybe not to you, but your view is not a global view, please understand that.
In order for him to understand, he needs to have a brain, which he is clearly lacking with.
[snip]
An honest, thoughtful and considered post. It's interesting to hear from different people and get an idea of what the player base is thinking. It's clear that there's a large difference between this type of bot use and, for example, someone who makes money from streaming/being at the top of the game. I think if you are amongst the elite and vying for top of the leader boards, part of that achievement has to be dedication and sacrifice - like a pro sportsman has to make - so using a bot to cut out the less desirable parts and still expect the credit and all the upside is inherently wrong.
It's not original. It's not considerate posting. It isn't interesting. It's run of the mill, woe is me, type of post. With a do something about it at the end. He has to throw in that he is a service member, as some kind of stop gap for his behavior. He is trying to excuse the behavior to cope with making a decision. He might not care, but if he didn't care, he wouldn't bot. You can't have it both ways.
I understand that you are extremely bent over the fact that I am admitting to botting; however, I don't think that you fully understand the sacrifices I've made as a service member. Does that excuse me from botting? No, it doesn't. It is cheating, I never said it wasn't. I work in healthcare in a forward deployed command. I know that you might not grasp that concept, but it is nothing like sitting in my parents' basement playing a game for hours a day without any responsibilities. People's lives depend on me and after a day of work sometimes I want to enjoy a game. Why would I want to take care of people all day or do physical training routines all day and come back to grind out materials only to never have the opportunity to even enjoy the end game? There are solutions to this problem and frankly, bots aren't the problem. There are much larger issues here. Games are meant for enjoyment and competition, but so far Blizzard has missed the mark on both for D3. Bots aside, the people with nothing but time to grind away at this game will always have the upper hand. I saw skill mentioned in this thread, but currently, time investment > skill in D3.
Do you want nobody to play diablo 3 anymore then? Thud is an overlay and nothing more. Its everybody blizzard should do but doesnt because we do have THUD, blizzard employees use it as well.
If you think BOTTING is less cheating then THUD your clueless then. THUD isnt a bot program, you still are at your keyboard playing. Botters can play 24/7 without being at your computer.
I understand what botting is!
Explain to me how an overlay that gives users additional map access, pointers to avoid ground effects, signposts to elite packs, shows exits, shows affixes etc etc is perfectly fine vs. a legit player with none of these huge advantages? It's against the ToS and is to Diablo what performance enhancing drugs are to athletics.
If someone uses a bot to generate a stack of rift keys, for me (and it's only my opinion), that is far preferable to someone using 'easy mode' via a third party program and claiming the credit vs. players that play the game, sitting at their keyboard, the way that Blizzard designed it to be played.
You obviously use THUD, which is your prerogative, and you like it - so feel free to discuss rather than calling me 'clueless'
As to Blizzard employees using THUD - great, as I said, if they like it or elements from it, code it into the game.
Do you want nobody to play diablo 3 anymore then? Thud is an overlay and nothing more. Its everybody blizzard should do but doesnt because we do have THUD, blizzard employees use it as well.
If you think BOTTING is less cheating then THUD your clueless then. THUD isnt a bot program, you still are at your keyboard playing. Botters can play 24/7 without being at your computer.
I understand what botting is!
Explain to me how an overlay that gives users additional map access, pointers to avoid ground effects, signposts to elite packs, shows exits, shows affixes etc etc is perfectly fine vs. a legit player with none of these huge advantages? It's against the ToS and is to Diablo what performance enhancing drugs are to athletics.
If someone uses a bot to generate a stack of rift keys, for me (and it's only my opinion), that is far preferable to someone using 'easy mode' via a third party program and claiming the credit vs. players that play the game, sitting at their keyboard, the way that Blizzard designed it to be played.
You obviously use THUD, which is your prerogative, and you like it - so feel free to discuss rather than calling me 'clueless'
As to Blizzard employees using THUD - great, as I said, if they like it or elements from it, code it into the game.
Why do you even bother mate? He's clearly clueless.
It's always fun to read people excuses for botting. "I work in military", "I work in health care". "I don't live with mom".
We get it guys, but this ain't an excuse for botting and cheating.
I am also a p1000 scrub with girlfriend, full time job and no mom's basement. But i don't bot, and i perfectly understand i won't catch up with mom's dwellers that can simply play for 16 hours straight, like Chainer for example. I am not even trying. I know i can't do it because "NO TIME", i am just enjoying the game as it is.
He is not tryint to make up excuses, he simply explains his point of veiw and why he have chosen what he did.
At least it's better than you people who cannot even have a fruitable discussion about the matter.
If this game had been anything like a competative game, or massive online game I would get it - it would affected you if people cheated. But Diablo 3 is game with some very, VERY simple multiplayer elements. Basically it is a singleplayer game with a simple leaderboard. Still you people who has not experienced real world problems like work, family, responsibilities and who take the game way too serious than what it's meant to, come here and spew hatefull messages to and about people who ultimately does not affect you. If anything it tells more about you than these botters who bot for the fun of it / to enjoy the game for their own means.
D3 community, or rather Diablofans is one of the worst communities I have ever withnessed. There is so much hate, envy, arrogance and betterknowing here. Seldom is there a good discussions where points of veiws from different camps are enlightened. Usually it is the "moral keepers" who sits on their high horse and pass judgement upon the "filth" of the community for destroying their sacred multi...singleplayer experience.
I wish leaderboards where never introduced, then the community - specially this one might had been a nicer place where we could have nice discussions.
you are just another cheater, aren't you?
real life problems, you've said, lol I know a lot of people with their own families and hard work, that can afford them to play 4-5 hours in the end of the day, and thats all. It's fair, that if you have a lot of real life, you can't beat some nerds that play 8+ hours a day. And it's unfair when stupid botter can overpass the fair player just because he can afford not to farm nefalems, bounties, ubers and even 70-80 caldessans are done by script. I'm the part of fair community, and hate such duplicities hypocrites like you
He is not tryint to make up excuses, he simply explains his point of veiw and why he have chosen what he did.
At least it's better than you people who cannot even have a fruitable discussion about the matter.
If this game had been anything like a competative game, or massive online game I would get it - it would affected you if people cheated. But Diablo 3 is game with some very, VERY simple multiplayer elements. Basically it is a singleplayer game with a simple leaderboard. Still you people who has not experienced real world problems like work, family, responsibilities and who take the game way too serious than what it's meant to, come here and spew hatefull messages to and about people who ultimately does not affect you. If anything it tells more about you than these botters who bot for the fun of it / to enjoy the game for their own means.
D3 community, or rather Diablofans is one of the worst communities I have ever withnessed. There is so much hate, envy, arrogance and betterknowing here. Seldom is there a good discussions where points of veiws from different camps are enlightened. Usually it is the "moral keepers" who sits on their high horse and pass judgement upon the "filth" of the community for destroying their sacred multi...singleplayer experience.
I wish leaderboards where never introduced, then the community - specially this one might had been a nicer place where we could have nice discussions.
you are just another cheater, aren't you?
real life problems, you've said, lol I know a lot of people with their own families and hard work, that can afford them to play 4-5 hours in the end of the day, and thats all. It's fair, that if you have a lot of real life, you can't beat some nerds that play 8+ hours a day. And it's unfair when stupid botter can overpass the fair player just because he can afford not to farm nefalems, bounties, ubers and even 70-80 caldessans are done by script. I'm the part of fair community, and hate such duplicities hypocrites like you
Oh here we go again, let's find the pinjatha and beat 'em cheaters shall we? If your friends have time to play 4-5 hours each day, they clearly are not the usergroup I meant. I meant those that at best can affort maybe 2-3 hours (at most) the whole week. And again, why care what other does? There is no competition in this game, it's just an illusion. Leaderboards are an illusion of competition. Stop worrying so much about that and focus on having fun in the game.
As for me, yes I am a cheater. I used D3Helper to keep the Taeguk stacks up for my WD (basically spamming Firebats ever 2850 MS). If that gets me banned - then fine. I enjoyed the game, alltho I dislikes that need to push a button to keep up a certain buff.
I am not defending cheaters, as I'm clearly - one myself, I am just explaining why I can understand people using Bots and other utilities to ease their gameplay. I do not care for leaderboards even tho I have no troubles clearing 80+ with and without the help of D3Helper.
For the love of god - stop caring so much about your own ego and leaderboards, try to enjoy the game you are playing. If not - find something else to play, like a massive online game or other competative game since that seems to be in your alley.
As for me, yes I am a cheater. I used D3Helper to keep the Taeguk stacks up for my WD (basically spamming Firebats ever 2850 MS). If that gets me banned - then fine. I enjoyed the game, alltho I dislikes that need to push a button to keep up a certain buff.
You'll be happy to know Taeguk has been completely redone for next patch. Having to continually spam skills for stacks was bad design - which has happily been indentified & rectified. Had the same issue with my HotA barb to the point I changed spec to avoid it!
Thud is an overlay and nothing more. Its everybody blizzard should do but doesnt because we do have THUD, blizzard employees use it as well.
Please post your source/evidence of blizzard employee's using/advocating use of THUD. I have looked into some of the features, and while some are definitely beneficial to gameplay, I would not want THUD in its current state to be completely integrated into D3. I do encourage the use of THUD for competitive play, as it helps to reduce some of the non-essential/counter-intuitive RNG elements present within GRs (which become significantly more prominent at higher GRs). THUD can help competitive players create a more level ground upon which to compete, and they do so by analysing data in real time; the decision to go left/right is not made by a computer/program, but the program does aid the human player to make the decision.
I think it is imperative that Blizzard take a stand on the matter of THUD use, as it is clearly a topic which splits the community. I don't think that THUD users should be punished as harshly as botters straight off the bat, because they are vastly different advantages. One allows farming while the player is AFK (sleeping/work/etc.) and is often used for lengthy durations; the other provides more detailed information on the player's surroundings, allowing them to use their time more efficiently while actively playing.
To be clear, I am for features/extensions which provide the player with more decision-making power, and against any element which makes that decision for the player.
THUD features I openly support (I do not use THUD, but do familiarise myself with the features of the program):
- Skill calculation details (it's basically a read-out similar to that provided on D3Planner)
- Arcs and circles (displays radius marks which the player can use to set up their positioning for buffs like zei's)
- Orbs on minimap (displays orbs on the minimap, so you don't run past them and miss out on your rift progress)
There is a feature which can provide significant advantage, and thus is unfair in a competition of non-THUD vs THUD user:
Monster dots on minimap show how many monsters are within the detection radius. Additional features work off of this to mark those dots by classification. This allows a THUD user to analyse the on-screen elements much sooner than a regular player would be capable of. My main issue however is the detection radius itself. Based upon the image I am viewing, the detection radius would have an effective range which exceeds the player's FOV; If this range were matched to ~85% of FOV, I would not have an issue with it.
Those features I have not mentioned would only really cause clutter for me. Also note, I am not using THUD, and the feature list I have looked through may be somewhat outdated, and thus my own list could be outdated/missing competition-breaking features.
In the interest of referencing my own source, a link to an imgur page detailing THUD features is provided.
I realise that by posting specific details of THUD's features, it may draw more attention to the program than what may be warranted. With this said, I believe it is necessary for the community to more accurately understand exactly what they are fighting for or against, with regard to 3rd party programs. I don't think it is enough to say that EULA/ToS prohibits use of these tools and be done with it; instead I think more can be learned by discussing precisely which elements of these tools are causing problems for players, and which features the playerbase may actually want to see implemented.
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I mean im not gonna report friends. I could care less if they bot. It doesn't change anything. One doesn't even push leaderboards. He literally bots because its like a phone game just something to do. Other might push hard to say. And obviously the 3rd actually did and got banned.
They just need to ban monthly or at least every season. Its just dumb we haven't had a real ban wave like this since before seasons.
I think that if GR fishing was less beneficial, records could be wiped without impacting the LB records of legit players, since they could just party with other high LB legit players and make a new record. I also think that having all of the records associated with cheat accounts would remove some of the outliers in LB, which would more accurately reflect what the playerbase has accomplished within a season.
The reality at the moment, is that GRs are too RNG dependant; we need randomness, but only to a certain extent, especially if GR is infinite scaling. Due to this issue, penalising legit players would be unfair, because they are not guaranteed a LB spot which accurately reflects the balance between their toon's power and the 'skill' of the player.
Well, I'll start off by saying that I am a botter. Do I value my account? To some extent, but would it ruin my life if it got terminated? Nah. So a little bit about me and why I choose to bot; I am active duty military serving overseas. I work in a very high tempo environment and my time to play is limited. Some of you feel that this is a valid reason for me to enjoy the game less than you do. I think we can all agree that end game is where the enjoyment comes from. Having the gear and paragons to run GRs with friends and push some higher GRs is what I bot for. I cannot afford to sit in front of my computer for 16 hours a day grinding out materials and levels and gear to ultimately get to the part where I can enjoy the game.
I don't have 1000 keys sitting in my bank or pages full of mats. I am barely over 1000 paragon, but fairly close to 1500. Yes, I do have really good gear. No, I am not even ranked on the leaderboards. I don't play for bragging rights or to flex my epeen at the end of the season. I have botted fairly conservatively. 8 hrs most in one session and most of the time anywhere from 2-5 days a week randomly selected days.
As Chainer said, in the current system, even at my current paragon level, most people do not want to group because my PL is considered low. So my ability to play outside of a small group of friends is limited. This essentially bottlenecks the community into different tiers that are not even based on skill, but on time put into the game. The community gets smaller by the day and different aspects drive different people away, but I can assure you that the botters, even the 24/7 ones helped sustain the community. Many of you condemn botters, but at the same time you have benefitted from botters. You do not suffer the consequences of account closure but in some way, running in that group with a botter you benefitted. Should all accounts be wiped then? Ignorance is one thing, but a lot of you are being very hypocritical. You celebrate the bans when you benefitted in the end. Botting is not the problem here. Bots provide a means to and end. Most bots cannot run past GR80 roughly, so these people you feel threatened by on the leaderboards did not have the bot get them their rank. Like I said, the bot provided a means to afford that opportunity for them to rank but it did not get it for them. So this brings me back to my original statement. I don't have the means to put in the same amount of time as a streamer. You want a competition based on skill, but currently skill is not the determining factor, its time. But I should be at a disadvantage because I cannot afford to use donations or my mom and dad's savings account to support me? I'm not knocking people's lifestyles but right now Blizzard has dictated that these are the factors that will divide the playerbase.
TLDR: I'm a botter, ban me idc.
An honest, thoughtful and considered post. It's interesting to hear from different people and get an idea of what the player base is thinking. It's clear that there's a large difference between this type of bot use and, for example, someone who makes money from streaming/being at the top of the game. I think if you are amongst the elite and vying for top of the leader boards, part of that achievement has to be dedication and sacrifice - like a pro sportsman has to make - so using a bot to cut out the less desirable parts and still expect the credit and all the upside is inherently wrong.
He is not tryint to make up excuses, he simply explains his point of veiw and why he have chosen what he did.
At least it's better than you people who cannot even have a fruitable discussion about the matter.
If this game had been anything like a competative game, or massive online game I would get it - it would affected you if people cheated. But Diablo 3 is game with some very, VERY simple multiplayer elements. Basically it is a singleplayer game with a simple leaderboard. Still you people who has not experienced real world problems like work, family, responsibilities and who take the game way too serious than what it's meant to, come here and spew hatefull messages to and about people who ultimately does not affect you. If anything it tells more about you than these botters who bot for the fun of it / to enjoy the game for their own means.
D3 community, or rather Diablofans is one of the worst communities I have ever withnessed. There is so much hate, envy, arrogance and betterknowing here. Seldom is there a good discussions where points of veiws from different camps are enlightened. Usually it is the "moral keepers" who sits on their high horse and pass judgement upon the "filth" of the community for destroying their sacred multi...singleplayer experience.
I wish leaderboards where never introduced, then the community - specially this one might had been a nicer place where we could have nice discussions.
Do you want nobody to play diablo 3 anymore then? Thud is an overlay and nothing more. Its everybody blizzard should do but doesnt because we do have THUD, blizzard employees use it as well.
If you think BOTTING is less cheating then THUD your clueless then. THUD isnt a bot program, you still are at your keyboard playing. Botters can play 24/7 without being at your computer.
I understand what botting is!
Explain to me how an overlay that gives users additional map access, pointers to avoid ground effects, signposts to elite packs, shows exits, shows affixes etc etc is perfectly fine vs. a legit player with none of these huge advantages? It's against the ToS and is to Diablo what performance enhancing drugs are to athletics.
If someone uses a bot to generate a stack of rift keys, for me (and it's only my opinion), that is far preferable to someone using 'easy mode' via a third party program and claiming the credit vs. players that play the game, sitting at their keyboard, the way that Blizzard designed it to be played.
You obviously use THUD, which is your prerogative, and you like it - so feel free to discuss rather than calling me 'clueless'
As to Blizzard employees using THUD - great, as I said, if they like it or elements from it, code it into the game.
It's always fun to read people excuses for botting. "I work in military", "I work in health care". "I don't live with mom".
We get it guys, but this ain't an excuse for botting and cheating.
I am also a p1000 scrub with girlfriend, full time job and no mom's basement. But i don't bot, and i perfectly understand i won't catch up with mom's dwellers that can simply play for 16 hours straight, like Chainer for example. I am not even trying. I know i can't do it because "NO TIME", i am just enjoying the game as it is.
http://www.angryroleplayer.com/
http://www.youtube.com/c/angryroleplayer
https://www.diablofans.com/builds/105329-2-6-7-rend-bleed-whirlwind-gr130
https://www.diablofans.com/builds/105301-2-6-7-fist-of-the-heavens-aegis-of-valor-gr110
real life problems, you've said, lol I know a lot of people with their own families and hard work, that can afford them to play 4-5 hours in the end of the day, and thats all. It's fair, that if you have a lot of real life, you can't beat some nerds that play 8+ hours a day. And it's unfair when stupid botter can overpass the fair player just because he can afford not to farm nefalems, bounties, ubers and even 70-80 caldessans are done by script. I'm the part of fair community, and hate such duplicities hypocrites like you
Oh here we go again, let's find the pinjatha and beat 'em cheaters shall we? If your friends have time to play 4-5 hours each day, they clearly are not the usergroup I meant. I meant those that at best can affort maybe 2-3 hours (at most) the whole week. And again, why care what other does? There is no competition in this game, it's just an illusion. Leaderboards are an illusion of competition. Stop worrying so much about that and focus on having fun in the game.
As for me, yes I am a cheater. I used D3Helper to keep the Taeguk stacks up for my WD (basically spamming Firebats ever 2850 MS). If that gets me banned - then fine. I enjoyed the game, alltho I dislikes that need to push a button to keep up a certain buff.
I am not defending cheaters, as I'm clearly - one myself, I am just explaining why I can understand people using Bots and other utilities to ease their gameplay. I do not care for leaderboards even tho I have no troubles clearing 80+ with and without the help of D3Helper.
For the love of god - stop caring so much about your own ego and leaderboards, try to enjoy the game you are playing. If not - find something else to play, like a massive online game or other competative game since that seems to be in your alley.
"Truth is like a lion. Don't try to defend it. Let it loose. It will defend itself" Augustine of Hippo
You'll be happy to know Taeguk has been completely redone for next patch. Having to continually spam skills for stacks was bad design - which has happily been indentified & rectified. Had the same issue with my HotA barb to the point I changed spec to avoid it!
I don't know why bot users present us their excuses for cheating.
Season 6 barbarian solo sc EU grift 85 12m 23.199s MotE build
I think it is imperative that Blizzard take a stand on the matter of THUD use, as it is clearly a topic which splits the community. I don't think that THUD users should be punished as harshly as botters straight off the bat, because they are vastly different advantages. One allows farming while the player is AFK (sleeping/work/etc.) and is often used for lengthy durations; the other provides more detailed information on the player's surroundings, allowing them to use their time more efficiently while actively playing.
To be clear, I am for features/extensions which provide the player with more decision-making power, and against any element which makes that decision for the player.
THUD features I openly support (I do not use THUD, but do familiarise myself with the features of the program):
- Skill calculation details (it's basically a read-out similar to that provided on D3Planner)
- Arcs and circles (displays radius marks which the player can use to set up their positioning for buffs like zei's)
- Orbs on minimap (displays orbs on the minimap, so you don't run past them and miss out on your rift progress)
There is a feature which can provide significant advantage, and thus is unfair in a competition of non-THUD vs THUD user:
Monster dots on minimap show how many monsters are within the detection radius. Additional features work off of this to mark those dots by classification. This allows a THUD user to analyse the on-screen elements much sooner than a regular player would be capable of. My main issue however is the detection radius itself. Based upon the image I am viewing, the detection radius would have an effective range which exceeds the player's FOV; If this range were matched to ~85% of FOV, I would not have an issue with it.
Those features I have not mentioned would only really cause clutter for me. Also note, I am not using THUD, and the feature list I have looked through may be somewhat outdated, and thus my own list could be outdated/missing competition-breaking features.
In the interest of referencing my own source, a link to an imgur page detailing THUD features is provided.
http://imgur.com/a/SvGuv#0
@ Moderators:
I realise that by posting specific details of THUD's features, it may draw more attention to the program than what may be warranted. With this said, I believe it is necessary for the community to more accurately understand exactly what they are fighting for or against, with regard to 3rd party programs. I don't think it is enough to say that EULA/ToS prohibits use of these tools and be done with it; instead I think more can be learned by discussing precisely which elements of these tools are causing problems for players, and which features the playerbase may actually want to see implemented.