Do you guys think we would see more build diversity if there wasn't such gaping discrepancies on the damage skill runes do and the element of the rune?
I don;t think skill runes should change the damage that a skill does or the element of damage for a couple of reasons.
1) It is boring and not very creative.
2) Forces certain decisions because why would you use the skill that does less damage.
3) Forces combinations of skills because they share the element.
What if the runes only changed the way the skill functioned and you could select whatever element you wanted for the rune?
Eg: I want a Magic Missile that splits into 3 and is Cold.
Blizzard might have to go back and rework or reinvent a few of the runes that "Your attack now does +233% damage instead of 155%".
They'd also maybe have to have 4 color variations (4 elements per class) on each skill rune.
That's the hard part for them to work through.
But it would allow us to be much more creative in our building options I think.
I think we would see much more build diversity if we had a system built on growing the skills we use instead of grinding xp for random stat increases. If they do not remove paragon, I hope they rework it to be more about the skills and gear, not random stats. That would certainly increase build diversity.
Aside from that, I agree to an extent that the element of the skill does greatly impact the build diversity. But to be honest, I think there is a ton of diversity, but the issue is that people look at top tier GR players, and want to emulate that, instead of just rocking the kick butt GR45-55+ builds they thought of.
So it is really a developer and community issue that we ALL need to work with.
I don't think this would open up any new builds, and would only make things worse.
If you look at the builds, they are all around 1 damage skill. All other skills are to survive, boost damage, move faster, worst case generate resources. No build is running 2 skills just for damage.
You points:
1) While it might be boring, it is less boring than turning it into "just a multiplier". It also makes it a bit harder to gear, since your bracers and amulet need (name your damage type) instead of (all damage increased by x%).
2) Decisions are what makes a good build. Again, you build around 1 skill, that's the element you will use. While the fire version of a skill is (often) the highest damage%, other skills or runes can be better. In the end, nobody forces you to do less damage, you just need the gear for it.
3) Again, only 1 skill matters, at least in 99% of the builds. The other skills you pick for their function, not damage. Their damage is also so low (because of set and other buffs to your damage skill) that you can ignore it in your damage calculations, the elements doesn't matter (unless to proc something, but that's how you pick your support skills).
The fixed element on runes also gives the option for scaling. As I said before, fire generally has the highest damage rune. Cold often has the lowest damage%, but it does slow (procing trapped gem), and can do other stuff, like freeze with frostburn and enable cold blooded passive on a wiz. This is a big damage boost overall and crowd control (=survivability) you gain, for giving up a bit of damage. When you can pick any rune and turn it into any element, people just run the highest damage and get the advantage from the element.
More examples? Wizard lightning+paralysis. While not used, it is a theme, and the control effect "costs" some damage. Conflagration and temporal flux, all themed around the element, damage or control. And these are just the wizard passives.
So, letting us pick the element on a skill would not give build diversity. It would only slightly increase the damage, since all support skills will benefit from the elemental bonus. And it would remove some tradeoffs between control and damage, remove the flavor of skills (to stay on magic missile: turning "glacial spike" into a fire skill would be so wrong), and make the gearing a bit easier again.
"This forum has become far too toxic for any meaningful discussion of
the game. I hope they can sort this out and get back to making a game
we can all enjoy without cheaters ruining it for everyone. Best wishes
all."-Hammer's view on diablo 3 forums 2014
Do you guys think we would see more build diversity if there wasn't such gaping discrepancies on the damage skill runes do and the element of the rune?
I don;t think skill runes should change the damage that a skill does or the element of damage for a couple of reasons.
1) It is boring and not very creative.
2) Forces certain decisions because why would you use the skill that does less damage.
3) Forces combinations of skills because they share the element.
What if the runes only changed the way the skill functioned and you could select whatever element you wanted for the rune?
Eg: I want a Magic Missile that splits into 3 and is Cold.
Blizzard might have to go back and rework or reinvent a few of the runes that "Your attack now does +233% damage instead of 155%".
They'd also maybe have to have 4 color variations (4 elements per class) on each skill rune.
That's the hard part for them to work through.
But it would allow us to be much more creative in our building options I think.
Thoughts?
There is plenty of diversity in the game, other builds will always prevail in this kind of game, like they do all games.
Personally I think it's rather bland if runes are so... I don't know, bland, cosmetic, and just don't hold any real significance in the building blocks of a refined build.
Some builds are for pushing (inna gen, inna EP) some are for speed grifts, some are for tx farming/bounties.
If the developers want to make drastic changes they will [A] either come out with another expansion or [B] Diablo 4.
"This forum has become far too toxic for any meaningful discussion of
the game. I hope they can sort this out and get back to making a game
we can all enjoy without cheaters ruining it for everyone. Best wishes
all."-Hammer's view on diablo 3 forums 2014
You can't let elemental type be selectable. Everybody will choose their highest percent increase. If I have 25% increase fire damage, versus a max of 20% for any other element, I will always choose fire. It does more damage.
There is plenty of diversity in the game, other builds will always prevail in this kind of game, like they do all games.
Personally I think it's rather bland if runes are so... I don't know, bland, cosmetic, and just don't hold any real significance in the building blocks of a refined build.
Some builds are for pushing (inna gen, inna EP) some are for speed grifts, some are for tx farming/bounties.
If the developers want to make drastic changes they will [A] either come out with another expansion or Diablo 4.
This is pretty much what OP was asking. Builds defined by their function, not their output. Personally, I love the way D3 is headed with builds and skills and stuff. I just wish updates would come faster.
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"This forum has become far too toxic for any meaningful discussion of
the game. I hope they can sort this out and get back to making a game
we can all enjoy without cheaters ruining it for everyone. Best wishes
all."-Hammer's view on diablo 3 forums 2014
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Do you guys think we would see more build diversity if there wasn't such gaping discrepancies on the damage skill runes do and the element of the rune?
I don;t think skill runes should change the damage that a skill does or the element of damage for a couple of reasons.
1) It is boring and not very creative.
2) Forces certain decisions because why would you use the skill that does less damage.
3) Forces combinations of skills because they share the element.
What if the runes only changed the way the skill functioned and you could select whatever element you wanted for the rune?
Eg: I want a Magic Missile that splits into 3 and is Cold.
Blizzard might have to go back and rework or reinvent a few of the runes that "Your attack now does +233% damage instead of 155%".
They'd also maybe have to have 4 color variations (4 elements per class) on each skill rune.
That's the hard part for them to work through.
But it would allow us to be much more creative in our building options I think.
Thoughts?
I think we would see much more build diversity if we had a system built on growing the skills we use instead of grinding xp for random stat increases. If they do not remove paragon, I hope they rework it to be more about the skills and gear, not random stats. That would certainly increase build diversity.
Aside from that, I agree to an extent that the element of the skill does greatly impact the build diversity. But to be honest, I think there is a ton of diversity, but the issue is that people look at top tier GR players, and want to emulate that, instead of just rocking the kick butt GR45-55+ builds they thought of.
So it is really a developer and community issue that we ALL need to work with.
I don't think this would open up any new builds, and would only make things worse.
If you look at the builds, they are all around 1 damage skill. All other skills are to survive, boost damage, move faster, worst case generate resources. No build is running 2 skills just for damage.
You points:
1) While it might be boring, it is less boring than turning it into "just a multiplier". It also makes it a bit harder to gear, since your bracers and amulet need (name your damage type) instead of (all damage increased by x%).
2) Decisions are what makes a good build. Again, you build around 1 skill, that's the element you will use. While the fire version of a skill is (often) the highest damage%, other skills or runes can be better. In the end, nobody forces you to do less damage, you just need the gear for it.
3) Again, only 1 skill matters, at least in 99% of the builds. The other skills you pick for their function, not damage. Their damage is also so low (because of set and other buffs to your damage skill) that you can ignore it in your damage calculations, the elements doesn't matter (unless to proc something, but that's how you pick your support skills).
The fixed element on runes also gives the option for scaling. As I said before, fire generally has the highest damage rune. Cold often has the lowest damage%, but it does slow (procing trapped gem), and can do other stuff, like freeze with frostburn and enable cold blooded passive on a wiz. This is a big damage boost overall and crowd control (=survivability) you gain, for giving up a bit of damage. When you can pick any rune and turn it into any element, people just run the highest damage and get the advantage from the element.
More examples? Wizard lightning+paralysis. While not used, it is a theme, and the control effect "costs" some damage. Conflagration and temporal flux, all themed around the element, damage or control. And these are just the wizard passives.
So, letting us pick the element on a skill would not give build diversity. It would only slightly increase the damage, since all support skills will benefit from the elemental bonus. And it would remove some tradeoffs between control and damage, remove the flavor of skills (to stay on magic missile: turning "glacial spike" into a fire skill would be so wrong), and make the gearing a bit easier again.
/facepalm
"This forum has become far too toxic for any meaningful discussion of
the game. I hope they can sort this out and get back to making a game
we can all enjoy without cheaters ruining it for everyone. Best wishes
all."-Hammer's view on diablo 3 forums 2014
Personally I think it's rather bland if runes are so... I don't know, bland, cosmetic, and just don't hold any real significance in the building blocks of a refined build.
Some builds are for pushing (inna gen, inna EP) some are for speed grifts, some are for tx farming/bounties.
If the developers want to make drastic changes they will [A] either come out with another expansion or [B] Diablo 4.
If you're interested I made a post about diversity here. http://www.diablofans.com/forums/diablo-iii-general-forums/diablo-iii-general-discussion/161238-illusion-of-diversity
"This forum has become far too toxic for any meaningful discussion of
the game. I hope they can sort this out and get back to making a game
we can all enjoy without cheaters ruining it for everyone. Best wishes
all."-Hammer's view on diablo 3 forums 2014
You can't let elemental type be selectable. Everybody will choose their highest percent increase. If I have 25% increase fire damage, versus a max of 20% for any other element, I will always choose fire. It does more damage.
This is pretty much what OP was asking. Builds defined by their function, not their output. Personally, I love the way D3 is headed with builds and skills and stuff. I just wish updates would come faster.
Congratulations, you're an Internet hero. Thanks for your contribution.
"This forum has become far too toxic for any meaningful discussion of
the game. I hope they can sort this out and get back to making a game
we can all enjoy without cheaters ruining it for everyone. Best wishes
all."-Hammer's view on diablo 3 forums 2014