And was seriously in shock when reading all the replies and realizing it's at -2. Well, the first post doesn't really fill in everyone one *why* it's so much of a problem... but really? This is so obviously a problem it needs to be addressed. If I was being cynical I could ask if Blizzard wants to make money by people buying loads of D3+RoS copies to run their bots...
Anyways; in post #153 I explained my point of view, but since I don't monitor the official forums and might not even look at the replies there (if they continue to be as ignorant and horrible as they were until now) I wonder what the community here thinks about it. Thoughts?
Edit: Post was in the PTR forums, deleted now - but it basically predicts a rampant botting in 2.3.
To be honest, it doesn't affect me In the slightest.
That said, I detest bots and cheats. But the honest truth is they will always find their way into games. In the end, the only defense against them is diligence.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I see the line in the sand. Time to find out who I am. Looking back to see where I stand. Evolution.
Yes the new cube reroll is a botters dream. But its a nice feature to bring to diablo, and too remove it because a small minority are going to abuse it while they break their terms of service would be unfair to the entire diablo population. Botters are always going to bot. The key area here is addressing botting and banning accounts that do this.
In short, keep the reforge, ban the botters. Even if this means spending some money from blizzards pov.
See, that's exactly what I don't get. This attitude is the same as in D3V - "you don't like the AH? Don't use it". If the cube goes live as is, Blizzard will need to fix it so that high-end players have to do something, because with bot-supported cache supplied they'll be done gearing after a week. And I mean pitch perfect gear with everything 650 main stat ancient rolls and so on. It DOES affect you, because after a while drop rates will be lowered, material cost for re-rolling will be increased, and so on; just like the AH, where drop rates became ridiculously low in the end such that casual players found about one item per week.
This is not the time to look the other way and say "I don't care". There's a harmful thread to the entire community.
theres no fix other than to ban the botters, which blizzard has shown they simply wont do effectively. other than that, you can only shrug and say oh well. anything else, including your ideas, would be negative (however slight) to legit players.
See, that's exactly what I don't get. This attitude is the same as in D3V - "you don't like the AH? Don't use it". If the cube goes live as is, Blizzard will need to fix it so that high-end players have to do something, because with bot-supported cache supplied they'll be done gearing after a week. And I mean pitch perfect gear with everything 650 main stat ancient rolls and so on. It DOES affect you, because after a while drop rates will be lowered, material cost for re-rolling will be increased, and so on; just like the AH, where drop rates became ridiculously low in the end such that casual players found about one item per week.
This is not the time to look the other way and say "I don't care". There's a harmful thread to the entire community.
I understand your point of view and I can see why you view it this way; but what would you do? What alternative do you propose? Either you make the materials unfarmable by bots through placing them in a higher tiered rift unattainable to most people, which effectively makes the cube pointless or you don't implement it. Personally and I know you see things differently than I on this matter, but I do not view D3 as a highly competitive game. I compete to get higher on the grift leaderboards, sure, but those people at the top are much more likely to be under the radar of Blizzard than the majority of the people using the botting programs.
Even in the sense of competition, those at the top have even less of a reason to cheat because they have to know that Blizzard has always operated this way; we saw this in WoW and SC as well. In my perspective, Blizzard would be handling class balance, cheating and a lot of other things drastically differently if they also placed a high amount of importance on the competitive scene of D3 (and I mean no offense by this). It seems more like Blizzard is trying to make it so people can have some form of steady progression outside of hoping for one item drop a day/week, now they can actually use their item drops in some meaningful way. What you're asking Blizzard to do is to sacrifice the enjoyment of the large majority of their player base for the small minority of the competitive players' scene. I don't know, really, it seems unfair.
Don't get me wrong, I do enjoy climbing the ladder, but D3 doesn't feel as community, people-to-people based as it could be. I don't have a sense of attachment to the players playing as I could have, so I find other's actions not all that important to my own progress; but I don't attempt to make a living off of it as some people are doing (and I don't think that's a venture for the long-term anyway).
And was doing MP8-10 effectively and I would find 7-10 legendaries an hour when I was farming. Granted they all sucked because the stat affixes were horrible. But when I did find a gem of an item I would make lots of money on the AH.
I got my Barb geared the hard way, and AH my way to greatness on my Monk. My Monk had the luxury of finding a perfectly rolled Inna's belt that I sold for 2 billion on the AH, I'm still sitting on some of that money I bet (I never dropped below 300 million gold after that sale).
I'm a casual player, and I never noticed in D3V that drop rates sucked.
HOWEVER... T6 Rifts don't seem to drop legendaries at all... I could do 2 or 3 and not see a single legendary.
I do a level 1 Grift and see 2, do an 11, see 2, do a 21, see 2-3, do a 31 see 0... It seems to be completely random.
I feel like an entire 2 hours of Rifting nets me nothing some weeks, so we've decided to just GRIFT.
Overall though, I don't think Botters affect me because I don't care about leaderboards. I do however think Blizzard should be more vigilant in banning botters and taking peoples reports of botters seriously. I once was banned from WoW for botting and I haven't ever botted again after that, wasn't worth the risk to me. Today, people don't feel there is any risk to botting so it is rampant.
I want the reforge option to be there. And i do not want it to be ruined by botters. Skyrocketting the price to use it so far up that non botters simply can't use it.
The only solution would be banning botters. And how hard can it be ? If you see the top player on the leader board averaging 18 hours played a day. He is botting. Simple as that.
I want the reforge option to be there. And i do not want it to be ruined by botters. Skyrocketting the price to use it so far up that non botters simply can't use it.
The only solution would be banning botters. And how hard can it be ? If you see the top player on the leader board averaging 18 hours played a day. He is botting. Simple as that.
I read the first two pages, that is where I stop because seeing the same comment coming back over and over was tiresome, than I jump to your comment.
I get the point. Being myself as a "casual" D3 gamer. By that I mean playing 2h a day not every day for a month and then stop a month and comeback again. I'm not a competitive player either. But when I play any open game I almost saw 1 or 2 botter in every round. (Like dropping a leg in act 2 town at the end of the road and seeing a guy coming instantly all the way to me and trying to pick up the leg i just dropped.) Maybe it's a bad example but that was there to say that I know bots are a real problem in the game. But the topic title is not making any sens. Getting rid of an entire game mechanics just because of the botters is not a solution and banning all the bots, well I don't think it's possible either.
I don't know if I've got all your idea correctly but I think that if you don't reward the player if he or it (the botter) didn't participate in the whole process of getting that reward is a great idea. That would eliminate a great deal of players fishing for reward. (that's the programmer in me that is talking lol)
If you're "AFK" for more that 51% of the act bounties then you don't get the cache.
If you came in at the last minute or after that 51% of the act bounties has been done then you don't get the cache.
If you came in a game that 51% of the rift is done then you can't enter the rift.
Something along those line... (the 51% is just a guide line to say that if you don't get to do at least half of the work you don't get paid, as an example.)
I don't think that could resolve all the problem and I don't think my solution is the best one or if I did get all of what Bagstone was trying to say but I do think that some people at Blizzard should really watch that problem.
p.s. : I didn't see the "-2" or where is it that you can see if a thread had more importance than another. I don't go that often on the official forum I prefer diablofans.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The season is underway. Don't know if I'll make it through.
Except for the guys who make their living Live Streaming on Twitch ALL DAY LONG... then going to bed, waking up, and live streaming again the next day.
botters dont effect leaderboards in any way. every good player in the leaderboard is like 10 times more efficient than a bot can ever be.
botters dont take away anything away from u as u only grinding for ur own sake. and no, i dont bot at all.
What if said 10 times more efficient guy play himself. Then at night when he goes to bed. Turns on the bot. See the issue here. He is gaining an hell of an advantage over a equal player not using a bot.
I personally would like to see the re roll feature taken out. With the cube we can target legendaries even more than just gambling, and that should be enough.
Do botters get some sort of advantage? Ya...But should they remove the cube or other game changing things in the future patch. no.
Find a simple solution to detect a bot player and give them a 3 strike policy. One week, One month, Perm IP address ban. (but I guess there might be vpn ways around it....not sure) Overall do I get annoyed when I see a bot stand in one spot for a minute when his bot locks up or w/e is happening, does it really make a HUGE difference in the game/leaderboards....not really.
I hope things like this come up on tavern talk, and the answer is not..."were looking into it" which seems to be typical answers from the devs.
Blizzard have a long history of keeping an eye on the top players in their games, such as GM's being invisibly present at several world first kills in wow through the years. If the top dogs in D3 has 20+ hours played a day, i'm sure they will be subject to Blizzards close watch aswell.
As for all the rest that uses bots.. Do we realy care about them? I certainly don't - Although i don't realy care at all, since i'm entirely casual, just like the other 99% of the playerbase - i guess..
But if i had to try and see it from your point of view.. I can see that it's a issue that's at least a cause for concern. Blizzard has been banned bots left right and center in their games for a long time, but i suppose they could up the effort at detecting them. Although that technical process is beyond me.
I say, why not just restrict D3 to 16 hours a day play time. Get's rid of botters, and does the (Excuse my expression) "no-lifers" a favor if you ask me.
haha anyone who plays 12-16 hours everyday, is likely either A. making a living streaming B a bot C. have no life outside of diablo 3 and should get out more....While I do get why quin and etc play so much, is because they want that TOP SPOT, I dont think it should mean sacrificing your family life, or blowing off weddings, cookouts, or taking a vacation to a new adventure or state etc. A few examples would be...I went to monster jam a few weeks ago with my daughter, had an amazing time and did not miss diablo 3 for one minute. I have vacation from my warehouse job in a few weeks and while yes, some time will be spent on this game I am surely going to enjoy my life..
Anyway...bad spelling and english aside, my points are It's really not very hard to spot a cheat/exploit in this game, yet the devs decide to either ignore it, or dont actually join public games...
While I am very impressed with this new patch, I have always thought blizzard/d3 devs usually take one step forward and two steps back. (ie removal of spirit walk and invul skills, adding items/skills then removing them or putting them back in again, and this future removal of cc (which could possibly cause an immense amount of lag for U.S already fragile servers...., removal or changing of an item mid season(depending)
I for one am hoping this season 4 goes live with zero bugs, but if we learn from every season which has happened its highly doubtful, because the exploiters, genius theory crafting gamers dont report game changing bugs...
No game feature should be changed or not implemented because -bots-
Also, a game where almost everything involves RNG will never, and should never have a respectable competitive scene.
I hate bots and cheaters, but you won't ever stop them.
I say, why not just restrict D3 to 16 hours a day play time. Get's rid of botters, and does the (Excuse my expression) "no-lifers" a favor if you ask me.
The botters will just bot <16 hours a day, like most already do.
Blizzard have a long history of keeping an eye on the top players in their games, such as GM's being invisibly present at several world first kills in wow through the years. If the top dogs in D3 has 20+ hours played a day, i'm sure they will be subject to Blizzards close watch aswell.
As for all the rest that uses bots.. Do we realy care about them? I certainly don't - Although i don't realy care at all, since i'm entirely casual, just like the other 99% of the playerbase - i guess..
But if i had to try and see it from your point of view.. I can see that it's a issue that's at least a cause for concern. Blizzard has been banned bots left right and center in their games for a long time, but i suppose they could up the effort at detecting them. Although that technical process is beyond me.
I say, why not just restrict D3 to 16 hours a day play time. Get's rid of botters, and does the (Excuse my expression) "no-lifers" a favor if you ask me.
i agree with most of what you say. however restricting player to 16 hrs is rediculous. botters dont do a thing to hurt anyone except maybe the leaderboards and i say maybe 2% of players actually care about that. With everything in this game BOA, botters cant make a thing off of it. they certainly dont hurt my gaming experiernece at all.
To everyone that has issues with them standing in town.. stop playing public games. their are many many communitys and groups where you may find other players who are willing to play.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
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I came across this thread on the official forums:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/18300090074
And was seriously in shock when reading all the replies and realizing it's at -2. Well, the first post doesn't really fill in everyone one *why* it's so much of a problem... but really? This is so obviously a problem it needs to be addressed. If I was being cynical I could ask if Blizzard wants to make money by people buying loads of D3+RoS copies to run their bots...
Anyways; in post #153 I explained my point of view, but since I don't monitor the official forums and might not even look at the replies there (if they continue to be as ignorant and horrible as they were until now) I wonder what the community here thinks about it. Thoughts?
Edit: Post was in the PTR forums, deleted now - but it basically predicts a rampant botting in 2.3.
To be honest, it doesn't affect me In the slightest.
That said, I detest bots and cheats. But the honest truth is they will always find their way into games. In the end, the only defense against them is diligence.
I see the line in the sand. Time to find out who I am. Looking back to see where I stand. Evolution.
Member of the Dfans clan.
BNet Tag: Evolution85#1878
Yes the new cube reroll is a botters dream. But its a nice feature to bring to diablo, and too remove it because a small minority are going to abuse it while they break their terms of service would be unfair to the entire diablo population. Botters are always going to bot. The key area here is addressing botting and banning accounts that do this.
In short, keep the reforge, ban the botters. Even if this means spending some money from blizzards pov.
See, that's exactly what I don't get. This attitude is the same as in D3V - "you don't like the AH? Don't use it". If the cube goes live as is, Blizzard will need to fix it so that high-end players have to do something, because with bot-supported cache supplied they'll be done gearing after a week. And I mean pitch perfect gear with everything 650 main stat ancient rolls and so on. It DOES affect you, because after a while drop rates will be lowered, material cost for re-rolling will be increased, and so on; just like the AH, where drop rates became ridiculously low in the end such that casual players found about one item per week.
This is not the time to look the other way and say "I don't care". There's a harmful thread to the entire community.
I'm sure there is a GIANT ban wave coming very soon for the opening of Season 4. Too bad they only do it once every 3 months or so.
I didnt say anything along of the lines of it doesnt effect you. I said to not implement features because bots exist is silly.
Nvm talking to different poster. And there doesnt seem to be a delete option on post...win forums.
theres no fix other than to ban the botters, which blizzard has shown they simply wont do effectively. other than that, you can only shrug and say oh well. anything else, including your ideas, would be negative (however slight) to legit players.
I understand your point of view and I can see why you view it this way; but what would you do? What alternative do you propose? Either you make the materials unfarmable by bots through placing them in a higher tiered rift unattainable to most people, which effectively makes the cube pointless or you don't implement it. Personally and I know you see things differently than I on this matter, but I do not view D3 as a highly competitive game. I compete to get higher on the grift leaderboards, sure, but those people at the top are much more likely to be under the radar of Blizzard than the majority of the people using the botting programs.
Even in the sense of competition, those at the top have even less of a reason to cheat because they have to know that Blizzard has always operated this way; we saw this in WoW and SC as well. In my perspective, Blizzard would be handling class balance, cheating and a lot of other things drastically differently if they also placed a high amount of importance on the competitive scene of D3 (and I mean no offense by this). It seems more like Blizzard is trying to make it so people can have some form of steady progression outside of hoping for one item drop a day/week, now they can actually use their item drops in some meaningful way. What you're asking Blizzard to do is to sacrifice the enjoyment of the large majority of their player base for the small minority of the competitive players' scene. I don't know, really, it seems unfair.
Don't get me wrong, I do enjoy climbing the ladder, but D3 doesn't feel as community, people-to-people based as it could be. I don't have a sense of attachment to the players playing as I could have, so I find other's actions not all that important to my own progress; but I don't attempt to make a living off of it as some people are doing (and I don't think that's a venture for the long-term anyway).
I would like to argue Bagstone's point about them lowering the drop rate in D3V.
I've been playing since Beta, I got to even Beta ROS.
I'm a casual player (I play every Monday night for 3-5 hours) and that's almost all I play all week.
Sometimes with time permitting I will be on in the mornings to do a Grift/Rift before work.
When the AH was around, I had no problem gearing up my Barbarian http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/LiquidGold-1720/hero/19791886
And was doing MP8-10 effectively and I would find 7-10 legendaries an hour when I was farming. Granted they all sucked because the stat affixes were horrible. But when I did find a gem of an item I would make lots of money on the AH.
I got my Barb geared the hard way, and AH my way to greatness on my Monk. My Monk had the luxury of finding a perfectly rolled Inna's belt that I sold for 2 billion on the AH, I'm still sitting on some of that money I bet (I never dropped below 300 million gold after that sale).
I'm a casual player, and I never noticed in D3V that drop rates sucked.
HOWEVER... T6 Rifts don't seem to drop legendaries at all... I could do 2 or 3 and not see a single legendary.
I do a level 1 Grift and see 2, do an 11, see 2, do a 21, see 2-3, do a 31 see 0... It seems to be completely random.
I feel like an entire 2 hours of Rifting nets me nothing some weeks, so we've decided to just GRIFT.
Overall though, I don't think Botters affect me because I don't care about leaderboards. I do however think Blizzard should be more vigilant in banning botters and taking peoples reports of botters seriously. I once was banned from WoW for botting and I haven't ever botted again after that, wasn't worth the risk to me. Today, people don't feel there is any risk to botting so it is rampant.
I want the reforge option to be there. And i do not want it to be ruined by botters. Skyrocketting the price to use it so far up that non botters simply can't use it.
The only solution would be banning botters. And how hard can it be ? If you see the top player on the leader board averaging 18 hours played a day. He is botting. Simple as that.
I want the reforge option to be there. And i do not want it to be ruined by botters. Skyrocketting the price to use it so far up that non botters simply can't use it.
The only solution would be banning botters. And how hard can it be ? If you see the top player on the leader board averaging 18 hours played a day. He is botting. Simple as that.
I read the first two pages, that is where I stop because seeing the same comment coming back over and over was tiresome, than I jump to your comment.
I get the point. Being myself as a "casual" D3 gamer. By that I mean playing 2h a day not every day for a month and then stop a month and comeback again. I'm not a competitive player either. But when I play any open game I almost saw 1 or 2 botter in every round. (Like dropping a leg in act 2 town at the end of the road and seeing a guy coming instantly all the way to me and trying to pick up the leg i just dropped.) Maybe it's a bad example but that was there to say that I know bots are a real problem in the game. But the topic title is not making any sens. Getting rid of an entire game mechanics just because of the botters is not a solution and banning all the bots, well I don't think it's possible either.
I don't know if I've got all your idea correctly but I think that if you don't reward the player if he or it (the botter) didn't participate in the whole process of getting that reward is a great idea. That would eliminate a great deal of players fishing for reward. (that's the programmer in me that is talking lol)
Something along those line... (the 51% is just a guide line to say that if you don't get to do at least half of the work you don't get paid, as an example.)
I don't think that could resolve all the problem and I don't think my solution is the best one or if I did get all of what Bagstone was trying to say but I do think that some people at Blizzard should really watch that problem.
p.s. : I didn't see the "-2" or where is it that you can see if a thread had more importance than another. I don't go that often on the official forum I prefer diablofans.
The season is underway. Don't know if I'll make it through.
Akarat save me !
Except for the guys who make their living Live Streaming on Twitch ALL DAY LONG... then going to bed, waking up, and live streaming again the next day.
What if said 10 times more efficient guy play himself. Then at night when he goes to bed. Turns on the bot. See the issue here. He is gaining an hell of an advantage over a equal player not using a bot.
I personally would like to see the re roll feature taken out. With the cube we can target legendaries even more than just gambling, and that should be enough.
Bots were soloing g54's two months ago. Not sure about ten times
Do botters get some sort of advantage? Ya...But should they remove the cube or other game changing things in the future patch. no.
Find a simple solution to detect a bot player and give them a 3 strike policy. One week, One month, Perm IP address ban. (but I guess there might be vpn ways around it....not sure) Overall do I get annoyed when I see a bot stand in one spot for a minute when his bot locks up or w/e is happening, does it really make a HUGE difference in the game/leaderboards....not really.
I hope things like this come up on tavern talk, and the answer is not..."were looking into it" which seems to be typical answers from the devs.
haha anyone who plays 12-16 hours everyday, is likely either A. making a living streaming B a bot C. have no life outside of diablo 3 and should get out more....While I do get why quin and etc play so much, is because they want that TOP SPOT, I dont think it should mean sacrificing your family life, or blowing off weddings, cookouts, or taking a vacation to a new adventure or state etc. A few examples would be...I went to monster jam a few weeks ago with my daughter, had an amazing time and did not miss diablo 3 for one minute. I have vacation from my warehouse job in a few weeks and while yes, some time will be spent on this game I am surely going to enjoy my life..
Anyway...bad spelling and english aside, my points are It's really not very hard to spot a cheat/exploit in this game, yet the devs decide to either ignore it, or dont actually join public games...
While I am very impressed with this new patch, I have always thought blizzard/d3 devs usually take one step forward and two steps back. (ie removal of spirit walk and invul skills, adding items/skills then removing them or putting them back in again, and this future removal of cc (which could possibly cause an immense amount of lag for U.S already fragile servers...., removal or changing of an item mid season(depending)
I for one am hoping this season 4 goes live with zero bugs, but if we learn from every season which has happened its highly doubtful, because the exploiters, genius theory crafting gamers dont report game changing bugs...
No game feature should be changed or not implemented because -bots-
Also, a game where almost everything involves RNG will never, and should never have a respectable competitive scene.
I hate bots and cheaters, but you won't ever stop them.
The botters will just bot <16 hours a day, like most already do.
i agree with most of what you say. however restricting player to 16 hrs is rediculous. botters dont do a thing to hurt anyone except maybe the leaderboards and i say maybe 2% of players actually care about that. With everything in this game BOA, botters cant make a thing off of it. they certainly dont hurt my gaming experiernece at all.
To everyone that has issues with them standing in town.. stop playing public games. their are many many communitys and groups where you may find other players who are willing to play.