I think it's incredibly difficult to do "math" here. If you close rifts immediately you can probably do 20 rifts per hour, if you clear them probably rather 5-8 (numbers might be off but let's assume you clear 3-4x more rifts when closing than when clearing). In the end you get roughly 1200-1500 more blood shards from the RG, but you'll also have 6-7 minutes more "idle time" (the 30 seconds wait after the RG is dead). Getting more goblins if you full clear is just a myth/anecdotal evidence, so let's forget about this, so you'll almost certain that you get more blood shards when closing. But is it really worth it?
Closing vs. clearing should not be a question of blood shards in the first place, but rather:
1) Do I want trial keys or not?
2) Do I have excess of rift key fragments or am I always running short?
3) Last but not least, a matter of preference.
For me it's rather strange: I have the feeling that clearing nets me more legendaries - however, I just don't want to clear. I always need trial keys; I have hundreds of rift key fragments (one hour of normal split bounties with 4 Danetta DHs will grant you 100-150 rift key fragments); and most importantly, I have this feeling of "closure" when the RG is dead, just want to leave the rift. We sometimes clear the map if it's an open space (Dahlgur, Desolate, Cemetery, Blood Marsh), but otherwise I prefer to close.
The "math" on gambling is relatively simple. If you clear a rift in 4.5 minutes and therefore do 12 rifts an hour with "clearing" legend rate of 12 legends an hour @T6 assuming every gambling event is worth .133 legendaries (10% chance on 1.5 items per event) then each 30 second interval you spend at Kadala is worth an effective 16 legends/hour. You cleared for 54 minutes (~10.8 legends) and gambled for 6 minutes (~1.6 legends) netting you an extra .4 legends. The faster you clear the rift (assuming legend rate per clear is constant) the more "bonus" legends you net on average.
GRs are way betetr overall for legends of course. And a select few maps have particularly high goblin density (Dahlgur, Fields) and are worth the time investiture to finish. Overall though the faster you are at clearing the worse a full clear is worth assuming the monsters/guardian ratio is on average constant.
Fully clearing rifts is only for conserving keystones.
Fully clearing rifts is only for conserving keystones.
wow i cant believe people are still discussing this. this is all there really is to say about this topic. there is simply no benefit to full clearing a rift UNLESS you are short on keystones. even still, a well geared group can do a t6 bounty run in a few minutes, so keystones shouldnt be an issue.
any bs about more legs or more goblins after rg is flawed. pretty much as flawed as loot tables and loot servers. stop with this nonsense.
also, i ALWAYS close after rg for pub. the lone exception is big, open map with high density. in that case, ill clear the one map only and then close. sorry, its a pub. im there for me. i dont care about pubs feelings and tin foil conspiracies about full clears. ill always go with the majority in a private party, but pubs are pubs.
It honestly doesn't make a difference and is just down to preference.
Personally i absolutely hate doing bounties and once i get what i need form caches i never wanna do them again. So i always run T6 full clears.
Not that believe ill get more or better loot by doing it (Even though I've found an ancient Torch and Calamity clearing after RG kills) it's just that i'd rather go back to town with 7-8 legys in my bag compared to 1-2 that you get from "shard runs". There's also the fact that it breaks the immersion and just becomes tedious returning to town every few minutes to restart and go at it again. I have enough of that stop-start farm doing GR35s.
I've lost count of the number of times I've cleared after RG kills and got that huge jail map where you run into more than 1 gob pack and Christmas comes early.
Of course i only run T6 with friends or join advertised full clear groups as I don't wanna force people into staying for the full clear or kick us out while they leave.
So yea whether you wanna full clear or speed farm, both methods are fine. Just chose the one you like and make sure the 3 other people in the group are on the same page.
ok, when you say there is no higher chance of gobs etc. after the RG you're absolutely right.
But, clearing till RG will most likely always happen in the first level of the rift, (in an average say 3 level rift)
So then I'm saying the 2 levels you're not clearing are more likely to contain a gobpack then if you'd only have cleared the first till RG
just my thoughts, I do both full clears as till RG depends on what I feel like at that moment.
Except that the new area you clear in the new rift is just as likely to have a gob pack as the second area you clear after you've killed the guardian. There's no benefit in gobpacks / levels run to clearing the rift and the 30s "penalty" is always worth more legendaries that finishing the rift unless every time you opt out you're missing a pack. Which obviously isn't true.
You'll encounter essentially the same gobs/time opening new rifts as clearing finished rifts.
You are ALWAYS losing out on legends/time when you choose to finish a rift over opening a new one assuming averages are average (they usually are). You're only gaining a greater payout per resource spent.
Edit: That isn't saying that you HAVE to reset. .4 legends per hour @ 12 rifts per hour obviously isn't a big deal unless you're playing for hours and hours at a time.
ok, when you say there is no higher chance of gobs etc. after the RG you're absolutely right.
But, clearing till RG will most likely always happen in the first level of the rift, (in an average say 3 level rift)
So then I'm saying the 2 levels you're not clearing are more likely to contain a gobpack then if you'd only have cleared the first till RG
just my thoughts, I do both full clears as till RG depends on what I feel like at that moment.
"Except that the new area you clear in the new rift is just as likely to have a gob pack as the second area you clear after you've killed the guardian. There's no benefit in gobpacks / levels run to clearing the rift and the 30s "penalty" is always worth more legendaries that finishing the rift unless every time you opt out you're missing a pack. Which obviously isn't true.
You'll encounter essentially the same gobs/time opening new rifts as clearing finished rifts.
You are ALWAYS losing out on legends/time when you choose to finish a rift over opening a new one assuming averages are average (they usually are). You're only gaining a greater payout per resource spent.
Edit: That isn't saying that you HAVE to reset. .4 legends per hour @ 12 rifts per hour obviously isn't a big deal unless you're playing for hours and hours at a time. "
^ I didn't write any of this, was replying to it. Omg Dfans fix your site ffs >.>
Exactly this. There's no promised gob packs / anything else for the entire rift. So the chances that you'll find it on the next zone you enter are the same whether it's the next zone after a RG kill, or the next zone after you open a new one.
Fully clearing rifts is only for conserving keystones.
wow i cant believe people are still discussing this. this is all there really is to say about this topic. there is simply no benefit to full clearing a rift UNLESS you are short on keystones. even still, a well geared group can do a t6 bounty run in a few minutes, so keystones shouldnt be an issue.
any bs about more legs or more goblins after rg is flawed. pretty much as flawed as loot tables and loot servers. stop with this nonsense.
also, i ALWAYS close after rg for pub. the lone exception is big, open map with high density. in that case, ill clear the one map only and then close. sorry, its a pub. im there for me. i dont care about pubs feelings and tin foil conspiracies about full clears. ill always go with the majority in a private party, but pubs are pubs.
ok, when you say there is no higher chance of gobs etc. after the RG you're absolutely right.
But, clearing till RG will most likely always happen in the first level of the rift, (in an average say 3 level rift)
So then I'm saying the 2 levels you're not clearing are more likely to contain a gobpack then if you'd only have cleared the first till RG
just my thoughts, I do both full clears as till RG depends on what I feel like at that moment.
why are the levels im not clearing more likely to contain a gobpack? if you do a 3 level rift and i do 3 1 level rifts, the chances are the same. the difference is im sacrificing 1minute total of downtime waiting for the rift to close (shorter if i just close and leave the pub and join a new one), but i gain 200 more blood shards. the trade off is downtime for blood shards. everything else is equal. there simply is not arguing that.
also, another comparison would be that blood thiefs drop about 250ish shards, so im basically guaranteeing myself a blood thief (plus the tiny amounts of bonus gold and exp from closing) for that 1 minute downtime
any bs about more legs or more goblins after rg is flawed. pretty much as flawed as loot tables and loot servers. stop with this nonsense.
I snipped everything else because... irrelevant.
But there are loot tables. There's gear available only from caches, from torment difficulties. Different classes have different droprates of various legendaries. Those are definitive examples of loot tables.
Not really. It just got necro'd so someone could post an opinion which added nothing that hadn't already been said on page one ("you get more loot per rift keystone if you full clear" - no shit, Sherlock)
I've been in Pub Rifts where one person closes at RG... then someone else in the party tries to vote him/her off for "closing too early".... stop the insanity!!!
also, another comparison would be that blood thiefs drop about 250ish shards, so im basically guaranteeing myself a blood thief (plus the tiny amounts of bonus gold and exp from closing) for that 1 minute downtime
This is false, goblin packs have spawn rates, therefore you at least need to clear the current level you are on to ensure you are not missing your spawn. If simply going to a new floor, you are correct, but the proper method is to at least clear the floor you are on as spawns have already been applied, and it would hurt to miss out on your chance.
also, another comparison would be that blood thiefs drop about 250ish shards, so im basically guaranteeing myself a blood thief (plus the tiny amounts of bonus gold and exp from closing) for that 1 minute downtime
This is false, goblin packs have spawn rates, therefore you at least need to clear the current level you are on to ensure you are not missing your spawn. If simply going to a new floor, you are correct, but the proper method is to at least clear the floor you are on as spawns have already been applied, and it would hurt to miss out on your chance.
You have a better chance of getting those two levels (cemetery and the other place with those purple pools of death) which are crazy for XP and packs which equates to more legs. Most of the time they are a good 3 or 4 levels down which is usually well after you have killed the RG.
There really isnt any point doing full clears in any torment under 6. In pub games you just have to go with the flow. If someone closes it early just accept it and start another. No point getting agro over it.
Just my 2 cents worth
yes, the cemetary levels and biggest levels, as well as most goblin packs are always post RG
I always vote kick for those who close rifts while others are still fighting.
I was in a game once, where someone ported to town after the guardian while we kept on going. We ran into a huge goblin pack, and was almost done killing them all when the other guy closed the rift and left the game. Legs were scattered all over the place when it closed... Public games at their finest.
This happened a couple of times. I think it is the least courtesy to ask to close a rift while others are still engaging.
the chance of legendary is the same, in the first case you get more bloodshards but use more keys
- being a half a minute with a chance on legendaries
and + being 30 sec wait or keyfarmtime
its more like this
CLEARING
+++---------- : 90 seconds + 5 minutes
an hour of playing = 13 minutes of waiting/keys / 47 minutes of potentially getting legs / ca 1000 shards
CLOSING
+++-- = 90 + 60
an hour of playing = 36 minutes of waiting/keys / 24 minutes of potentially getting legs / ca 2400 shards
this is assuming you can kill RG in one minute with 100 shards per RG and clearing a rift takes 5 minutes
I'll take from this that the amount of legendaries per hour is probably higher in the first scenario, while the chance of getting a specific legendary is probably higher in the second one. While to me its obvious that the comfort and convenience is far superior in the first scenario
have i committed logical flaws somewhere?
I can get 8-10 leg items for a full clear on the average, and 100 shards aren't worth even 1 leg, let alone the frustration in waiting.
Based on the 500 or so T6 rifts I've done since the meta changed last patch, I can conclusively say that in my personal experience full T6 clears are better in most cases which two notable exceptions:
If you are clearing too slowly as a group and need 25 blood shard cost gear, go ahead and get your ~100 shards and close out, rinse and repeat. Clearly very slowly likely warrants a trip to T4 or T5 until you are ready, but that's another matter.
If you need primarily exp, you should be doing Greater Rifts in a group around LvL35.
Greater Rifts are probably underrated for loot potential too at LvL30+ by most of us.
Do full Rift clears if...
You primarily need weapons, jewelry, consumables, gems, crafting mats, exp, etc... you should be doing full clears efficiently with a well formed group. Especially if you play with sound and know to listen for goblins. TIP: You should always hear a goblin before you see it on the map. I find a blood thief the majority of my T6 clears as a result of this. Last night I had 4 double goblin pack rifts in 2 hours. That's a game-changing series of events for almost any player.
Opportunity Cost for Full Clear has improved considerably (the new meta):
-Most viable (and popular) builds have increased in damage, particularly AOE damage, thus faster clear times are now possible
-Goblin Packs and new Goblin types, particularly Blood Thieves and Malevolent Tormentors, have dramatically improved potential for loot per hour
-Increased legendary drop rates (% chance, amount trash mobs killed and breakables exposed as risen due to increase in AOE build prevalence.
Bottomline: do what is most efficient for you and your group
Etiquette: if you want to close a rift before you reach the end marker, discuss with your group
I close right after rift guardian - then do a bounty while i'm waiting for the 30 second timer, then do another rift. i feel this helps the most for the groups i run (i typicaly run lower levell folks to help them level up. this also increases your blood shard count (more rgs = more shards). i do clear a level if it happens to be one of the more efficient ones for my build (i use a fire monk so wide open areas are best)
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The "math" on gambling is relatively simple. If you clear a rift in 4.5 minutes and therefore do 12 rifts an hour with "clearing" legend rate of 12 legends an hour @T6 assuming every gambling event is worth .133 legendaries (10% chance on 1.5 items per event) then each 30 second interval you spend at Kadala is worth an effective 16 legends/hour. You cleared for 54 minutes (~10.8 legends) and gambled for 6 minutes (~1.6 legends) netting you an extra .4 legends. The faster you clear the rift (assuming legend rate per clear is constant) the more "bonus" legends you net on average.
GRs are way betetr overall for legends of course. And a select few maps have particularly high goblin density (Dahlgur, Fields) and are worth the time investiture to finish. Overall though the faster you are at clearing the worse a full clear is worth assuming the monsters/guardian ratio is on average constant.
Fully clearing rifts is only for conserving keystones.
wow i cant believe people are still discussing this. this is all there really is to say about this topic. there is simply no benefit to full clearing a rift UNLESS you are short on keystones. even still, a well geared group can do a t6 bounty run in a few minutes, so keystones shouldnt be an issue.
any bs about more legs or more goblins after rg is flawed. pretty much as flawed as loot tables and loot servers. stop with this nonsense.
also, i ALWAYS close after rg for pub. the lone exception is big, open map with high density. in that case, ill clear the one map only and then close. sorry, its a pub. im there for me. i dont care about pubs feelings and tin foil conspiracies about full clears. ill always go with the majority in a private party, but pubs are pubs.
It honestly doesn't make a difference and is just down to preference.
Personally i absolutely hate doing bounties and once i get what i need form caches i never wanna do them again. So i always run T6 full clears.
Not that believe ill get more or better loot by doing it (Even though I've found an ancient Torch and Calamity clearing after RG kills) it's just that i'd rather go back to town with 7-8 legys in my bag compared to 1-2 that you get from "shard runs". There's also the fact that it breaks the immersion and just becomes tedious returning to town every few minutes to restart and go at it again. I have enough of that stop-start farm doing GR35s.
I've lost count of the number of times I've cleared after RG kills and got that huge jail map where you run into more than 1 gob pack and Christmas comes early.
Of course i only run T6 with friends or join advertised full clear groups as I don't wanna force people into staying for the full clear or kick us out while they leave.
So yea whether you wanna full clear or speed farm, both methods are fine. Just chose the one you like and make sure the 3 other people in the group are on the same page.
Except that the new area you clear in the new rift is just as likely to have a gob pack as the second area you clear after you've killed the guardian. There's no benefit in gobpacks / levels run to clearing the rift and the 30s "penalty" is always worth more legendaries that finishing the rift unless every time you opt out you're missing a pack. Which obviously isn't true.
You'll encounter essentially the same gobs/time opening new rifts as clearing finished rifts.
You are ALWAYS losing out on legends/time when you choose to finish a rift over opening a new one assuming averages are average (they usually are). You're only gaining a greater payout per resource spent.
Edit: That isn't saying that you HAVE to reset. .4 legends per hour @ 12 rifts per hour obviously isn't a big deal unless you're playing for hours and hours at a time.
"Except that the new area you clear in the new rift is just as likely to have a gob pack as the second area you clear after you've killed the guardian. There's no benefit in gobpacks / levels run to clearing the rift and the 30s "penalty" is always worth more legendaries that finishing the rift unless every time you opt out you're missing a pack. Which obviously isn't true.
You'll encounter essentially the same gobs/time opening new rifts as clearing finished rifts.
You are ALWAYS losing out on legends/time when you choose to finish a rift over opening a new one assuming averages are average (they usually are). You're only gaining a greater payout per resource spent.
Edit: That isn't saying that you HAVE to reset. .4 legends per hour @ 12 rifts per hour obviously isn't a big deal unless you're playing for hours and hours at a time. "
^ I didn't write any of this, was replying to it. Omg Dfans fix your site ffs >.>
Exactly this. There's no promised gob packs / anything else for the entire rift. So the chances that you'll find it on the next zone you enter are the same whether it's the next zone after a RG kill, or the next zone after you open a new one.
why are the levels im not clearing more likely to contain a gobpack? if you do a 3 level rift and i do 3 1 level rifts, the chances are the same. the difference is im sacrificing 1minute total of downtime waiting for the rift to close (shorter if i just close and leave the pub and join a new one), but i gain 200 more blood shards. the trade off is downtime for blood shards. everything else is equal. there simply is not arguing that.
also, another comparison would be that blood thiefs drop about 250ish shards, so im basically guaranteeing myself a blood thief (plus the tiny amounts of bonus gold and exp from closing) for that 1 minute downtime
I snipped everything else because... irrelevant.
But there are loot tables. There's gear available only from caches, from torment difficulties. Different classes have different droprates of various legendaries. Those are definitive examples of loot tables.
Not really. It just got necro'd so someone could post an opinion which added nothing that hadn't already been said on page one ("you get more loot per rift keystone if you full clear" - no shit, Sherlock)
legacy puzzlering + nemesis bracers = solo clearing
theres WAY many more gob packs after RG, everyone knows that
I've been in Pub Rifts where one person closes at RG... then someone else in the party tries to vote him/her off for "closing too early".... stop the insanity!!!
I always vote kick for those who close rifts while others are still fighting.
This is false, goblin packs have spawn rates, therefore you at least need to clear the current level you are on to ensure you are not missing your spawn. If simply going to a new floor, you are correct, but the proper method is to at least clear the floor you are on as spawns have already been applied, and it would hurt to miss out on your chance.
LOL
yes, the cemetary levels and biggest levels, as well as most goblin packs are always post RG
This happened a couple of times. I think it is the least courtesy to ask to close a rift while others are still engaging.
I can get 8-10 leg items for a full clear on the average, and 100 shards aren't worth even 1 leg, let alone the frustration in waiting.
Based on the 500 or so T6 rifts I've done since the meta changed last patch, I can conclusively say that in my personal experience full T6 clears are better in most cases which two notable exceptions:
If you are clearing too slowly as a group and need 25 blood shard cost gear, go ahead and get your ~100 shards and close out, rinse and repeat. Clearly very slowly likely warrants a trip to T4 or T5 until you are ready, but that's another matter.
If you need primarily exp, you should be doing Greater Rifts in a group around LvL35.
Greater Rifts are probably underrated for loot potential too at LvL30+ by most of us.
Do full Rift clears if...
You primarily need weapons, jewelry, consumables, gems, crafting mats, exp, etc... you should be doing full clears efficiently with a well formed group. Especially if you play with sound and know to listen for goblins. TIP: You should always hear a goblin before you see it on the map. I find a blood thief the majority of my T6 clears as a result of this. Last night I had 4 double goblin pack rifts in 2 hours. That's a game-changing series of events for almost any player.
Opportunity Cost for Full Clear has improved considerably (the new meta):
-Most viable (and popular) builds have increased in damage, particularly AOE damage, thus faster clear times are now possible
-Goblin Packs and new Goblin types, particularly Blood Thieves and Malevolent Tormentors, have dramatically improved potential for loot per hour
-Increased legendary drop rates (% chance, amount trash mobs killed and breakables exposed as risen due to increase in AOE build prevalence.
Bottomline: do what is most efficient for you and your group
Etiquette: if you want to close a rift before you reach the end marker, discuss with your group
I close right after rift guardian - then do a bounty while i'm waiting for the 30 second timer, then do another rift. i feel this helps the most for the groups i run (i typicaly run lower levell folks to help them level up. this also increases your blood shard count (more rgs = more shards). i do clear a level if it happens to be one of the more efficient ones for my build (i use a fire monk so wide open areas are best)