There's been a lot of talk back and forth about how the drops were lowered for the AH/RMAH (thus making them mandatory, not optional), and about how much better drops were in Diablo 2.
First, Blizzard has stated that drop rates were NOT tuned to the AH (from the reddit amaa):
There seem to be a lot of misunderstandings and conspiracy theories from people who believe drop rates are directly influenced by the AH (if an item is common on the AH its drop rates will be lowered in-game). That doesn't really make any sense, but maybe can you lay this notion to rest?
It IS, however, reasonable that drop rates would be designed with the AH in mind, to avoid flooding the economy with powerful items. How did you approach this as a design challenge during development, especially without a working economy to test on? 3 weeks after launch, are the economy and player's gear roughly where you were expecting?
The auction house has absolutely no effect on drop rates. There are conspiracy theories and misunderstandings but I do want to re-iterate, the is NO interaction whatsoever. Bashiok mentioned earlier that we took the AH into account, so let me expand a little bit on that.
The drop rates were tuned for a player who would never use the Auction House. For the majority of internal development we didn't have an Auction House, we all played using our own drops only. I've personally leveled multiple characters from 1 to 60 internally before the game came out using only drops that I found - we all did.
When we say we "took the AH into account" that means it's one of many factors. ie. some players will choose to play without trading, some players would play in a group of 4 where they share drops among each other, and some (as it turns out, many) players would use the AH.
Aside from that, I believe most people are saying drop rates are worse due to the way human memory works (poorly). However, the only evidence I have of that is due to my own faulty human memory.
So the question is, is it even possible to compare drop rates? With NV, then we can't compare drop count, and I have no idea how to compare quality of an item. Perhaps we could get a number of people to play through Diablo 2 on Normal, count the items (and perhaps item level vs player level) and then do the same on Diablo 3?
Basically, I want to try and find out if people are really just spewing shit like I think they are, or if there was a legitimate change (for the worse) in the game.
Im by no means an expert in the field, but i played D2 for many many years, and have been playing D3 since launch; With that said, i think droprates are getting to a fun level now.
The only thing i've really wanted out of D3's drops was for them to give that feeling in D2. It's hard to describe but it's the feeling that you keep almost getting a really good drop, and you know it's out there, but maybe if one or two rares in your inventory had slightly different mods they'd be really good, that's what i've wanted out of D3.
I think it's pretty close to that now. I'll get weapons with high life on hit, and high dex (im a monk) but low damage; But if that item rolled one of those +500 arcane damage mods, it would be an absolutely awesome item. Drops are exciting for me now. I may not get something super great every night i play, but i get pretty close, and occasionally get something pretty good. So i'm happy. I just like feeling like im right at the precipice of getting something awesome, and IMO (at least from my experience in act 2 inferno) it feels like that right now.
I dont really see a need to measure drops comparing D2 to D3, just get out and play, and in my humble opinion, they're at a pretty good spot right now. Especially compared to how they were at launch.
Im by no means an expert in the field, but i played D2 for many many years, and have been playing D3 since launch; With that said, i think droprates are getting to a fun level now.
The only thing i've really wanted out of D3's drops was for them to give that feeling in D2. It's hard to describe but it's the feeling that you keep almost getting a really good drop, and you know it's out there, but maybe if one or two rares in your inventory had slightly different mods they'd be really good, that's what i've wanted out of D3.
I think it's pretty close to that now. I'll get weapons with high life on hit, and high dex (im a monk) but low damage; But if that item rolled one of those +500 arcane damage mods, it would be an absolutely awesome item. Drops are exciting for me now. I may not get something super great every night i play, but i get pretty close, and occasionally get something pretty good. So i'm happy. I just like feeling like im right at the precipice of getting something awesome, and IMO (at least from my experience in act 2 inferno) it feels like that right now.
I dont really see a need to measure drops comparing D2 to D3, just get out and play, and in my humble opinion, they're at a pretty good spot right now. Especially compared to how they were at launch.
The problem with getting items to that level is that you'll then get good items and be back where you are. As you get towards the end of the game, it takes better and better combinations to be really good (it needs Elemental damage, plus main stat, plus IAS, plus LoH before it's good, as opposed to earlier in the game when all it needed was main stat and +damage or IAS).
Aside from that, I believe most people are saying drop rates are worse due to the way human memory works (poorly). However, the only evidence I have of that is due to my own faulty human memory.
Yeah I think you are right with that...I did mostly CS and worldstone keep runs (full clear, with diablo and baal as a nice bonus) to not die to boredom doing mephisto or diablo or baal or pindle or eldrich or shenk all over again. And although killing hundreds of monsters in CS and worldstone keep the drops weren't thaaaat good. And by "killing" in Diablo2 terms I mean "lol rushing through it with javelin amazon"...
I think most people (including me) get more frustrated about the fact that you are fighting one group of champions for some minutes, because of bad gear and kiting + frustrating affixes and then get the shittiest items in diablo3 history and dont feel rewarded at all.
I think you just hit the nail on the head there. It's not that the drops are bad, it's that the game is SOOO much harder. In D2, the only challenge you had was immunes, and that people just accepted as impossible and either rolled a new game, or ran around them. People feel the need to kill all packs now, even the impossible ones. And they do, and the impossible ones of course have no difference in drop rates, and so they feel like drops are worse.
i'm not sure how that is fixable without guaranteeing good items.
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First, Blizzard has stated that drop rates were NOT tuned to the AH (from the reddit amaa):
Originally Posted by (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
The drop rates were tuned for a player who would never use the Auction House. For the majority of internal development we didn't have an Auction House, we all played using our own drops only. I've personally leveled multiple characters from 1 to 60 internally before the game came out using only drops that I found - we all did.
When we say we "took the AH into account" that means it's one of many factors. ie. some players will choose to play without trading, some players would play in a group of 4 where they share drops among each other, and some (as it turns out, many) players would use the AH.
Aside from that, I believe most people are saying drop rates are worse due to the way human memory works (poorly). However, the only evidence I have of that is due to my own faulty human memory.
So the question is, is it even possible to compare drop rates? With NV, then we can't compare drop count, and I have no idea how to compare quality of an item. Perhaps we could get a number of people to play through Diablo 2 on Normal, count the items (and perhaps item level vs player level) and then do the same on Diablo 3?
Basically, I want to try and find out if people are really just spewing shit like I think they are, or if there was a legitimate change (for the worse) in the game.
Any thoughts?
The only thing i've really wanted out of D3's drops was for them to give that feeling in D2. It's hard to describe but it's the feeling that you keep almost getting a really good drop, and you know it's out there, but maybe if one or two rares in your inventory had slightly different mods they'd be really good, that's what i've wanted out of D3.
I think it's pretty close to that now. I'll get weapons with high life on hit, and high dex (im a monk) but low damage; But if that item rolled one of those +500 arcane damage mods, it would be an absolutely awesome item. Drops are exciting for me now. I may not get something super great every night i play, but i get pretty close, and occasionally get something pretty good. So i'm happy. I just like feeling like im right at the precipice of getting something awesome, and IMO (at least from my experience in act 2 inferno) it feels like that right now.
I dont really see a need to measure drops comparing D2 to D3, just get out and play, and in my humble opinion, they're at a pretty good spot right now. Especially compared to how they were at launch.
The problem with getting items to that level is that you'll then get good items and be back where you are. As you get towards the end of the game, it takes better and better combinations to be really good (it needs Elemental damage, plus main stat, plus IAS, plus LoH before it's good, as opposed to earlier in the game when all it needed was main stat and +damage or IAS).
I think you just hit the nail on the head there. It's not that the drops are bad, it's that the game is SOOO much harder. In D2, the only challenge you had was immunes, and that people just accepted as impossible and either rolled a new game, or ran around them. People feel the need to kill all packs now, even the impossible ones. And they do, and the impossible ones of course have no difference in drop rates, and so they feel like drops are worse.
i'm not sure how that is fixable without guaranteeing good items.