Others have said it - I by no means take credit for thinking this up - Blue's have even commented on this idea and gave an opinion.
Why not remove the loss of NV when you switch skills?
Some of the root complaints that ranged and melee characters have are the affixes on packs and they inability to cope with the problem. We find ways around issues like Reflect Damage with items that have LoH. You can deal with the nice increased range of Mortar or the dead zone with loads of All Resists.
But each class has a skill or two that also would help with this. Most popular builds may not account for this ability, because its need in all things you encounter is not as great as other skills - like abilities that increase your damage rather than help you get away from stupid affixes.
We don't use the abilities then, because we lose so much MF by losing our NV. A lot of farmers apparently rely on the NV and have no static MF on their gear to begin with - because that precious property is allocated to things like defense and offense.
Still have the cooldown on ablities if you switch in the field. However, if you face plant to a ridiculous roll of afixes or can't kill a pack before they enrage you port back to town - switch up the combo of spells you have at your disposal and go back to try and find a constructive way to beat the pack.
Blue's said that they put the penalty of NV loss on ability switch because we asked for it. To put it simply - we asked for it during the Beta. We wanted to feel like we had a "solid build we use all the time." Well Dear Blizzard - that was during the BETA when we had no idea the mess we would encounter in the real game.
When they do this - they don't have to worry about changing affixes, recategorizing their "we want you to play this way, so we are going to nerf until you do." They don't have to have a hefty patch that causes unrelated items like the AH to crash, yet again. Easy fix.
It won't hurt game play but it won't fix anything either, me switching from bears to... anything else will = an expensive repair build.
Is it really that much of an issue for people when they start a new act run to change a skill or two at the beginning for something different? Until skills get balanced and buffed I think a NV change of free swapping is useless.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Playing Diablo since 97. I know nothing and having nothing good to say, I be a troll.
I think they have the difficulty where they want it, for now. I don't think they want to create situations where you have to change your skills out jsut to get through fights. It's an action rpg. Stopping between fights to re-assign skills is not action. When you are playing for progress, you can stop and respecc anytime. When you are farming for gear you have to perfect your build and make it versatile enough to handle a wide variety of situations to keep NV. If you have a versatile build that works well, and you still can't get past a fight, it is because that fight is intended to be a gear check. If istuations like that come up often, it is probably best to go back an act and farm more.
Character build diversity does not exist if there is no advantage to choosing and keeping a build. In that situation, all the characters of a given class are essentually identical-with the ability to perform any skill suited to the situation with no penalty beyond a waiting period. NV encourages you to find the skills you like, get used to using them and stick with it.
So, to encourage fast paced play, maintain the challenge level, and solidify the idea of character builds, the current NV setup needs to stay intact.
i do somewhat agree that loss on skill switch is lame even though i never have an issue with it. most issues come from just being under geared and not from having me to change skills. they could change it to lose 1 stack on death or every 2-3 deaths or something weird like that leaving the ability to free up skill slot play but im sure a lot of people would cry even more about that. i dont die often so it wouldnt bother me. their should be a way to lose the NV buff other than a 30 min timer or whatever it may be and this to me seems most reasonable.
They wanted character builds to be diverse. They didn't want any single skill to outshine the others. And then players complained that they have no build identity, so the implemented NV as it currently stands. So what did we end up with? A skill system that touts diversity that you can't actually use because you are, for all practical intents and purposes, locked into a single build while you are farming.
Personally I am not a fan of that change suggestion, but, seeing as it would not really effect me in any meaningful way, I cannot really be against it.
They wanted character builds to be diverse. They didn't want any single skill to outshine the others. And then players complained that they have no build identity, so the implemented NV as it currently stands. So what did we end up with? A skill system that touts diversity that you can't actually use because you are, for all practical intents and purposes, locked into a single build while you are farming.
They are touting build diversity, not you can swap out your build for every encounter.
And yes, they need to buff the lesser used skills for Inferno viability, I know.
I play Monk and not being able to switch skills without losing NV has definitely caused me to waste some time trying to progress through new content. Disclaimer: I'm not saying attempt content I'm not geared for. I'm saying those few packs that are just the "yin" to my current build's "yang". Ex: Currently using a FoT / Cyclone build for A2 Inf, which works 90% of the time, but whenever I hit a Fast + Jailer + Molten/Desecrator/Plague pack I haven't found a way to survive using this build. That situation has basically motivated me to go back and steamroll-farm A1 rather than sacrifice NV stacks in A2 when I hit a difficult affix combo pack and build them back up after swapping builds. If I were able to switch to a Deadly Reach build for those packs without losing NV I would stick to farming A2.
It's not something that's going to cause me to stop playing the game, but it's annoying to have to skip packs or make a new game not because you aren't geared enough to kill a champ/elite, but because it's the perfect storm against your current build and you don't want to lose NV. The random affixes champs/elites have require a diverse play style to kill different combos, and Blizzard has set the game up so building NV stacks and running basically a whole act is how they want us to play, so it makes sense to me players shouldn't penalized for utilizing all of the skills they've got at their disposal to overcome whatever challenging pack is thrown at them.
Why even have builds in that case? Why not just let you use whatever ability you want? I would not be a fan of that change and I love the fact that you're stuck with the build that you choose.
With the current system, you're forced to think about how you would deal with different packs and this forces you to create a well balanced build. It's great.
im going to say no, its there for a reason so you dont go skill swapping so you in essence still have a ''build'' and dont just swap skills in willy nilly.
not to mention think of the skill nerfing they might have to do then, if you essentially have any skill you could stack all defenses, etc etc.
but maybe you can vouch for maybe 1 more active skill? that wouldnt bother me that much. im just trying to find a middle ground here.
I'm down with it. You should be able to swap skills whenever you want, it doesn't effect others. So what if I want to switch up a skill for some crazy affix combo? I'm in my own private game.
I've used several builds to farm Inferno/II (different at the skill level, not just runes), so I don't think options are as narrow as people make out (although given the hyperbole around here, that's not hard). On top of that, Blizzard has said that they want more (for certain values of more) builds to be viable in Inferno.
I understand what they're trying to do, and I actually like it. There have been several times when I've come across a pack with affixes that just trumped my build, but I made the build work because I didn't want to lose my stacks, and it felt good... which is exactly what Blizzard was aiming for.
Nope, I'm happy with having some limitations that force me to stick with my build throughout a run.
And no, I wouldn't "force myself" to keep my skillset ("you're free to play however you want, don't force us to do it" = bs) if there was no penalty to swapping (and let others do whatever they want) because as a somewhat dedicated gamer I do choose the path of least resistance (which would be swapping skills for specific boss and champ pack fights to make those fights much easier).
It's funny, I see lots of people complaining about build diversity. Now that we've seen some nerfs to Inferno's numbers, I'm seeing a ton of different skills out there. I saw a tanky/disabler Wizard yesterday on public games with a shitload of defensive and crowd control spells (Frost Nova, Mirror Image with stun, Diamond Skin, Slow Time, lower cooldowns + critical mass/crits), and it was amazing, she could tank and permadisable everything from Act 2 and was still dishing out around 15k dps. She probably has a hard time on her own, but in coop she was amazing.
its also a lame way to play swapping skills in and out, again it goes against having a build at all, if it concerns you that much as i said before make a suggestion to increase how many active skills you can have.
I understand the desire to keep your build and feel that you are stuck using it in all situations.
However I can't agree with that. No flaming meant.
Because being "stuck" with a build is a nicer way of saying you are "restricted" to a build in all situations (assuming that you want the NV stacks). I think its very realistic to say that most players will find a build that works for them. And by works for them, I mean a build they like to play. So if you had the freedom to switch abilities - its not very likely you are going to swap out a skill, every - single - time - you - fight. You are going to use the build you enjoy. And on those rare occasions that you face-plant to an affix roll, you have the freedom to port back to town - swap out an ability - go back to the fray.
Really - those of you who commented that you like the restriction and the idea that you want "builds" to be sacred, ask yourself; do you really think you will change any skill from your favorite build?
I'm down with it. You should be able to swap skills whenever you want, it doesn't effect others. So what if I want to switch up a skill for some crazy affix combo? I'm in my own private game.
Because it becomes one of those situations where you feel forced to do it in order to be efficient...just like switching to MF gear mid-combat. Considering that they removed MF affecting chests I'd say they want to move away from constant combat breaking to game certain mechanics. I like the idea that certain builds have trouble with certain affixes. Makes it more interesting.
That's the whole point of NV to not let you have that easymode that is changing skills depending on encounters, to reward you for doing things not so easy. No point to remove it and I hope and honestly believe they won't do this anytime soon.
Besides, a well-rounded build for any class can handle all the affixes minus the ones that EVERYONE knows are BS like invuln minions (and how the main mob likes to purposely hide behind the invuln ones) and shielding (which goes completely against you gearing up which is what Diablo is supposed to be about). Fast is also just OP.
Besides, a well-rounded build for any class can handle all the affixes minus the ones that EVERYONE knows are BS like invuln minions (and how the main mob likes to purposely hide behind the invuln ones) and shielding (which goes completely against you gearing up which is what Diablo is supposed to be about). Fast is also just OP.
I agree - cetain affixes are OP and I seem to have the all-you-can-eat members club for those combos. I would LOVE to be able to throw in a defensive spell or two - especially with Fast on a monster that is already fast as a normal mob.
NV buffs, imo - are rewards for killing elites, plain and simple. They want you to roam around looking for these packs for hours, rather than an effecient (albeit some what boring) 20 minute grind of 5 stack/boss.
Allowing NV if you switch spells would help accomplish this. And the only thing I see being lost is comfort of those who know they are "stuck" with their build, because they choose to be.
Why not remove the loss of NV when you switch skills?
Some of the root complaints that ranged and melee characters have are the affixes on packs and they inability to cope with the problem. We find ways around issues like Reflect Damage with items that have LoH. You can deal with the nice increased range of Mortar or the dead zone with loads of All Resists.
But each class has a skill or two that also would help with this. Most popular builds may not account for this ability, because its need in all things you encounter is not as great as other skills - like abilities that increase your damage rather than help you get away from stupid affixes.
We don't use the abilities then, because we lose so much MF by losing our NV. A lot of farmers apparently rely on the NV and have no static MF on their gear to begin with - because that precious property is allocated to things like defense and offense.
Still have the cooldown on ablities if you switch in the field. However, if you face plant to a ridiculous roll of afixes or can't kill a pack before they enrage you port back to town - switch up the combo of spells you have at your disposal and go back to try and find a constructive way to beat the pack.
Blue's said that they put the penalty of NV loss on ability switch because we asked for it. To put it simply - we asked for it during the Beta. We wanted to feel like we had a "solid build we use all the time." Well Dear Blizzard - that was during the BETA when we had no idea the mess we would encounter in the real game.
When they do this - they don't have to worry about changing affixes, recategorizing their "we want you to play this way, so we are going to nerf until you do." They don't have to have a hefty patch that causes unrelated items like the AH to crash, yet again. Easy fix.
Thoughts?
Monkalicious: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/OptimusPrime-12194/hero/79139477
Is it really that much of an issue for people when they start a new act run to change a skill or two at the beginning for something different? Until skills get balanced and buffed I think a NV change of free swapping is useless.
Character build diversity does not exist if there is no advantage to choosing and keeping a build. In that situation, all the characters of a given class are essentually identical-with the ability to perform any skill suited to the situation with no penalty beyond a waiting period. NV encourages you to find the skills you like, get used to using them and stick with it.
So, to encourage fast paced play, maintain the challenge level, and solidify the idea of character builds, the current NV setup needs to stay intact.
They wanted character builds to be diverse. They didn't want any single skill to outshine the others. And then players complained that they have no build identity, so the implemented NV as it currently stands. So what did we end up with? A skill system that touts diversity that you can't actually use because you are, for all practical intents and purposes, locked into a single build while you are farming.
They are touting build diversity, not you can swap out your build for every encounter.
And yes, they need to buff the lesser used skills for Inferno viability, I know.
It's not something that's going to cause me to stop playing the game, but it's annoying to have to skip packs or make a new game not because you aren't geared enough to kill a champ/elite, but because it's the perfect storm against your current build and you don't want to lose NV. The random affixes champs/elites have require a diverse play style to kill different combos, and Blizzard has set the game up so building NV stacks and running basically a whole act is how they want us to play, so it makes sense to me players shouldn't penalized for utilizing all of the skills they've got at their disposal to overcome whatever challenging pack is thrown at them.
With the current system, you're forced to think about how you would deal with different packs and this forces you to create a well balanced build. It's great.
not to mention think of the skill nerfing they might have to do then, if you essentially have any skill you could stack all defenses, etc etc.
but maybe you can vouch for maybe 1 more active skill? that wouldnt bother me that much. im just trying to find a middle ground here.
I understand what they're trying to do, and I actually like it. There have been several times when I've come across a pack with affixes that just trumped my build, but I made the build work because I didn't want to lose my stacks, and it felt good... which is exactly what Blizzard was aiming for.
And no, I wouldn't "force myself" to keep my skillset ("you're free to play however you want, don't force us to do it" = bs) if there was no penalty to swapping (and let others do whatever they want) because as a somewhat dedicated gamer I do choose the path of least resistance (which would be swapping skills for specific boss and champ pack fights to make those fights much easier).
It's funny, I see lots of people complaining about build diversity. Now that we've seen some nerfs to Inferno's numbers, I'm seeing a ton of different skills out there. I saw a tanky/disabler Wizard yesterday on public games with a shitload of defensive and crowd control spells (Frost Nova, Mirror Image with stun, Diamond Skin, Slow Time, lower cooldowns + critical mass/crits), and it was amazing, she could tank and permadisable everything from Act 2 and was still dishing out around 15k dps. She probably has a hard time on her own, but in coop she was amazing.
However I can't agree with that. No flaming meant.
Because being "stuck" with a build is a nicer way of saying you are "restricted" to a build in all situations (assuming that you want the NV stacks). I think its very realistic to say that most players will find a build that works for them. And by works for them, I mean a build they like to play. So if you had the freedom to switch abilities - its not very likely you are going to swap out a skill, every - single - time - you - fight. You are going to use the build you enjoy. And on those rare occasions that you face-plant to an affix roll, you have the freedom to port back to town - swap out an ability - go back to the fray.
Really - those of you who commented that you like the restriction and the idea that you want "builds" to be sacred, ask yourself; do you really think you will change any skill from your favorite build?
edit:because my clumsy fingers rule.
Monkalicious: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/OptimusPrime-12194/hero/79139477
Because it becomes one of those situations where you feel forced to do it in order to be efficient...just like switching to MF gear mid-combat. Considering that they removed MF affecting chests I'd say they want to move away from constant combat breaking to game certain mechanics. I like the idea that certain builds have trouble with certain affixes. Makes it more interesting.
I want my build to reflect my preferences and playstyle, not the affixes of the mob I happen to be fighting next.
I agree - cetain affixes are OP and I seem to have the all-you-can-eat members club for those combos. I would LOVE to be able to throw in a defensive spell or two - especially with Fast on a monster that is already fast as a normal mob.
NV buffs, imo - are rewards for killing elites, plain and simple. They want you to roam around looking for these packs for hours, rather than an effecient (albeit some what boring) 20 minute grind of 5 stack/boss.
Allowing NV if you switch spells would help accomplish this. And the only thing I see being lost is comfort of those who know they are "stuck" with their build, because they choose to be.
edit:again with the silly typing fingers...
Monkalicious: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/OptimusPrime-12194/hero/79139477