I was at work yesterday and this popped into my head:
(To my knowledge) there is no %chance to hit calculated in the game (the way Attack Rating worked in D2). Someone did post on these forums that all characters have a 5% chance to miss always (whether or not this is true is unknown to me) -- this would mean that a level 1 character could hit a level 61 monster almost all of the time.
From my experience with games in general, and games like this one, this just doesn't seem right.
Anyone think anything else is missing as far as game mechanics?
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Playing a Wizard. Looking for Demon Hunters to play with.
I was at work yesterday and this popped into my head:
(To my knowledge) there is no %chance to hit calculated in the game (the way Attack Rating worked in D2). Someone did post on these forums that all characters have a 5% chance to miss always (whether or not this is true is unknown to me) -- this would mean that a level 1 character could hit a level 61 monster almost all of the time.
From my experience with games in general, and games like this one, this just doesn't seem right.
Anyone think anything else is missing as far as game mechanics?
And that level 61 will one hit you =D You also won't be able to hit them, since you won't be in the same difficulty unless you get rushed through, which you still will level off of the quests =D
I'm glad there's no chance to hit / miss besides the static 5%
1. AR was the worst thing to happen to Diablo II. There were very few ways to deal with it, and none of them good. Entire builds were/are completely broken because of AR. It blows. Things like Blessed Aim can help, but a solo Barb, Assasin, etc. are pretty much screwed in hell solely because of AR.
2. The 5% miss chance aka 95% hit chance is designed to alleviate this problem, and does so just fine. I wouldn't mind a 100% hit chance, but either way it's fine. It's not like any chance to miss being completely unacceptable like WoW. That's a different circumstance because in WoW missing the wrong global can totally fck you over.
3. There's pretty much no such thing as power levelling any more, so I can't think of a situation in which a level 1 would even be able to encounter a level 61, or even a level 10+. That being said, the game is designed to pretty much only pit you against monsters that are around your level. Anything over a few levels above you will destroy you with an overwhelming advantage of health, damage, etc. so any "unfair advantage" you might have had from a set 95% hit rate is completely worthless.
hmm from what i remember (i can be wrong) there is 100% hit chance in diablo 3. but players and monsters have dodge chance.
Unless they've changed it recently, it has been explicitly stated many times that melee has an (supposedly immovable) 95% hit chance, and spells have 100%.
%chance to miss didn't add anything to D2, and would often slow the game down, while also hurting build diversity. I'm glad it's gone in D3.
Tell that to WoW raiders that have been raiding for the past... 7 years? Sure, people will tell you that hit is gay or lame, but it adds another hurdle to increase a game's difficulty.
And how would not needing any dex HURT build diversity? You're saying that dumping into one primary stat HELPS achieving build diversity?
I felt like on some D2 characters, occasionally putting points into dex was a nice balancing act. It was a lot more interesting then dumping into one stat.
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Some people tell me I'm going to hell. I just let them know that I've already packed my bags!
%chance to miss didn't add anything to D2, and would often slow the game down, while also hurting build diversity. I'm glad it's gone in D3.
Tell that to WoW raiders that have been raiding for the past... 7 years? Sure, people will tell you that hit is gay or lame, but it adds another hurdle to increase a game's difficulty.
And how would not needing any dex HURT build diversity? You're saying that dumping into one primary stat HELPS achieving build diversity?
I felt like on some D2 characters, occasionally putting points into dex was a nice balancing act. It was a lot more interesting then dumping into one stat.
1. Hit does not add a "hurdle to a game's" difficulty. In any given WoW expac, patch, w/e you can achieve the hit cap with any class with blues. Hit is not really an option, it's a necessity for any DPS class, a great aid for any tank class, and a non-issue with healers. That has absolutely nothing to do with difficulty. It's pretty much "if you're smart you stack it until you reach the cap and if you're not you probably don't know the difference anyway". Hit is a necessity because it ensures important globals in a rotation don't miss and fuck up your dps, period. Hit in WoW and hit in Diablo II are so different it's hardly even worth striking up a conversation about it. The base hit for any class at level cap in WoW would have been a golden wet dream for any Diablo II melee character in Nightmare difficulty or above.
2. Yes AR hurt build diversity, because it was broken. All melee classes couldn't get anywhere close to a reasonable amoune of hit % for hell and still have enough A) Strength to wear their good gear B.)health to survive. Dex gave pitiful % returns. Pumping 5 points per level basically keep you from losing % after levelling. The only class that didn't have much issue with this was the dexazon which, by their very name, only needed dex. Except they were paper cannons that did fantastic damage (pre-LoD anyway) and went down in one, maybe two hits in hell. Why do you think the good builds don't revolve around AR? Hammerdins don't rely on it. Casters obviously don't rely on it. Frenzy barbs got a decent AR boost and swung so fast it didn't matter all that much while Berserers got a huge AR boost. But WW is completely useless and pointless now (not just because of AR, but that plays a large role). Zealadins can't hit shit now. etc.
3. More interesting than dumping into one stat? How can you compare this to WoW and then say you want to have to dump points into more than one stat to make it interesting? Every single class and build in WoW revovles around one core stat. One. Secondary stats diversify them, but every single one has one and only one stat they build towards.
4. Even the Blizzard developers saw AR in Diablo II for exactly what it is/was: broken. I am quite frankly appalled by anyone saying that they miss AR. It was AWFUL. It basically broke half or more of the Diablo II builds in one fell swoop. Conversely, making all melee attacks a 95% chance to hit in Diablo III is one of the best ideas they've come up with. When someone says "No AR was a good thing" or "I wish it was in Diablo III" I'm about 99.9999999% sure that that person never took a melee class to hell in Diablo II, because if they had, I would have a serious degree of trouble believing that they would still be saying either of those things.
I can't lie, I hate AR in Diablo 2 as well. However, this isn't the only way to create chance to miss your target. I always thought D2 chance to miss was a bit extreme.
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Playing a Wizard. Looking for Demon Hunters to play with.
In any given WoW expac, patch, w/e you can achieve the hit cap with any class with blues.
Wrong. Enhancement shamans in Cataclysm is actually very comparable to the bad AR system in D2. At least when Cataclysm released, not sure if they patched it. You had to sacrifice everything in order to get hit and expertise capped even with epic gear. That really ruined WoW for me, since enhancement was my favorite spec.
My most used builds in D2 was Lightning sorc, Smiter and Hammerdin, because they didn't need AR.
I won't miss AR in D3.
No, not wrong. Sorry bud, I have 10 level 85's, I know what I'm talking about. Unless you're talking about White hit cap (which is pointless because no one refers to white hit cap as desirable on any spec), pretty much every class without fail can achieve hit cap with "pre-raid" blues. They were designed that way, period. But yes, no one builds anything in Diablo II nowadays that relies on AR because it doesn't work.
As others have already said, the biggest problem with % to hit in Diablo 1 and 2 (and armor rating in Diablo 1, which if you were a warrior could make or break you) was the difficulty of staying ahead of or even keeping up with the curve as player and monster levels increased. The % to hit curve became too steep too fast, especially if you were playing solo. At times, it made for a game that was more frustrating than fun, especially if you were a barbarian playing with a sorceress who was just destroying everything with no worries of AR.
A long, long time ago I remember either Bashiok or Jay Wilson say there would be a flat 5% miss rate, but I don't think that is true any more. I never miss in-game, so I'm pretty certain the whole mechanic is gone.
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(To my knowledge) there is no %chance to hit calculated in the game (the way Attack Rating worked in D2). Someone did post on these forums that all characters have a 5% chance to miss always (whether or not this is true is unknown to me) -- this would mean that a level 1 character could hit a level 61 monster almost all of the time.
From my experience with games in general, and games like this one, this just doesn't seem right.
Anyone think anything else is missing as far as game mechanics?
And that level 61 will one hit you =D You also won't be able to hit them, since you won't be in the same difficulty unless you get rushed through, which you still will level off of the quests =D
I'm glad there's no chance to hit / miss besides the static 5%
Just figured I would share my thoughts to see if anyone else was thinking similar things.
2. The 5% miss chance aka 95% hit chance is designed to alleviate this problem, and does so just fine. I wouldn't mind a 100% hit chance, but either way it's fine. It's not like any chance to miss being completely unacceptable like WoW. That's a different circumstance because in WoW missing the wrong global can totally fck you over.
3. There's pretty much no such thing as power levelling any more, so I can't think of a situation in which a level 1 would even be able to encounter a level 61, or even a level 10+. That being said, the game is designed to pretty much only pit you against monsters that are around your level. Anything over a few levels above you will destroy you with an overwhelming advantage of health, damage, etc. so any "unfair advantage" you might have had from a set 95% hit rate is completely worthless.
Unless they've changed it recently, it has been explicitly stated many times that melee has an (supposedly immovable) 95% hit chance, and spells have 100%.
Tell that to WoW raiders that have been raiding for the past... 7 years? Sure, people will tell you that hit is gay or lame, but it adds another hurdle to increase a game's difficulty.
And how would not needing any dex HURT build diversity? You're saying that dumping into one primary stat HELPS achieving build diversity?
I felt like on some D2 characters, occasionally putting points into dex was a nice balancing act. It was a lot more interesting then dumping into one stat.
1. Hit does not add a "hurdle to a game's" difficulty. In any given WoW expac, patch, w/e you can achieve the hit cap with any class with blues. Hit is not really an option, it's a necessity for any DPS class, a great aid for any tank class, and a non-issue with healers. That has absolutely nothing to do with difficulty. It's pretty much "if you're smart you stack it until you reach the cap and if you're not you probably don't know the difference anyway". Hit is a necessity because it ensures important globals in a rotation don't miss and fuck up your dps, period. Hit in WoW and hit in Diablo II are so different it's hardly even worth striking up a conversation about it. The base hit for any class at level cap in WoW would have been a golden wet dream for any Diablo II melee character in Nightmare difficulty or above.
2. Yes AR hurt build diversity, because it was broken. All melee classes couldn't get anywhere close to a reasonable amoune of hit % for hell and still have enough A) Strength to wear their good gear B.)health to survive. Dex gave pitiful % returns. Pumping 5 points per level basically keep you from losing % after levelling. The only class that didn't have much issue with this was the dexazon which, by their very name, only needed dex. Except they were paper cannons that did fantastic damage (pre-LoD anyway) and went down in one, maybe two hits in hell. Why do you think the good builds don't revolve around AR? Hammerdins don't rely on it. Casters obviously don't rely on it. Frenzy barbs got a decent AR boost and swung so fast it didn't matter all that much while Berserers got a huge AR boost. But WW is completely useless and pointless now (not just because of AR, but that plays a large role). Zealadins can't hit shit now. etc.
3. More interesting than dumping into one stat? How can you compare this to WoW and then say you want to have to dump points into more than one stat to make it interesting? Every single class and build in WoW revovles around one core stat. One. Secondary stats diversify them, but every single one has one and only one stat they build towards.
4. Even the Blizzard developers saw AR in Diablo II for exactly what it is/was: broken. I am quite frankly appalled by anyone saying that they miss AR. It was AWFUL. It basically broke half or more of the Diablo II builds in one fell swoop. Conversely, making all melee attacks a 95% chance to hit in Diablo III is one of the best ideas they've come up with. When someone says "No AR was a good thing" or "I wish it was in Diablo III" I'm about 99.9999999% sure that that person never took a melee class to hell in Diablo II, because if they had, I would have a serious degree of trouble believing that they would still be saying either of those things.
No need to miss attacks.
No, not wrong. Sorry bud, I have 10 level 85's, I know what I'm talking about. Unless you're talking about White hit cap (which is pointless because no one refers to white hit cap as desirable on any spec), pretty much every class without fail can achieve hit cap with "pre-raid" blues. They were designed that way, period. But yes, no one builds anything in Diablo II nowadays that relies on AR because it doesn't work.