Does anyone know how many point their are going to be per spell and trait? As far as skills go last i heard it was around 15 or so. But, for traits I'm not so sure. If there are only going to be 20 points to use and their supposed to be so "weighty" then the model on the wiki couldn't be right in my opinion. I was thinking that about 3 points per at max and a decent number of them being one point to get the effect type traits. I'm open to idea and/or solid information.
I'm thinking not all skills will have the same max maybe? Take D2 teleport did anyone ever both with more than like 1 point into that and it worked great.
Well, there are some Traits that are just 1-pointers, some that are 3, and some that are 5. So they will essentially average out at 3. However, this was the system we were presented when we got Trait points every other level rather than every third level, as is apparently the case now.
As for the Skill points, I don't think we've heard anything concrete about it. But, based on 7 skills and 59 points, 15-20 would make sense, as you'd still have to choose which of those skills you'll max and which will get fewer points.
At 20 points per skill, that means you can max out two skills and have 19 points left for the other five. That goes beyond forcing a choice; that's downright unforgiving. At 15 points per skill, you can max three out and have 14 points left for the other 4. That's a little better, but still not great.
I'm thinking that they'll be a bit more lenient in this regard. 10 points per skill means, obviously, you can max out five skills and have nine points left to spend on the remaining two. That means there's some variation in build without being needlessly punishing. Build differences will be based on tons of other factors: selected skill, runes, charms, equipment, artisan specializations, etc. There's no need to artificially force the choices with overly restrictive skill points.
@SleeplessCynic: I was under the impression we'd be getting a Skill point every level and a Trait point every third level. Have they said something different somewhere else?
@Doomscream: I missed that, too. I do remember there being mention of some way to unlock higher levels of skills. Where did they say that we'll need higher ranks for higher-level runes?
Yeah, I don't think it would make sense to give us a Trait point instead of a Skill point, as that would kind of defeat the purpose of separating passives (Traits) and actives (Skills) in the first place.
As far as Skill points/caps go, we'll have at least 59 points (maybe more from quests?), so I agree that spreading those points out over 7 20-point Skills is probably a bit much, but I'd like to see a cap where it's really only possible to max maybe 3 skills. I think if you can max out 5 skills, it makes the decision of where to put the rest of your points far less interesting (only 2 more skills to choose from) than if you have to choose how to distribute them over 4 skills. I guess I like the idea of having a choice between having a few very powerful Skills and a few reasonably strong Skills vs. several very powerful skills and a couple weak ones. Basically, if we're getting 60 Skill points, spreading those out among 70 options (10-point cap) isn't particularly interesting IMO. It'll be higher than 10.
One thing that's interesting to consider that pernunz brought up is different Skills having different caps. If you look at the blue post that Doomscream posted, Bashiok says:
Official Blizzard Quote:
The limitation, currently, is based on level of the skill. Level of the skill is determined by character level to pump points into the skill, but it's also determined by upping that skill to higher caps. As a completely made up example, you may need 6 skill points in a skill before you can socket in a rank 3 rune. But you can't spend more than 5 skill points in that skill until you up the cap! Ha HAH!
Mechanics for increasing a skill's cap are still in design.
The way he phrases the answer kind of makes me think that you might be able to increase an individual Skill's cap independently from other Skills.
The way he phrases the answer kind of makes me think that you might be able to increase an individual Skill's cap independently from other Skills.
Wouldn't this be similiar to D2 with an item giving a bonus to all skills? So if you max out one spell to X and then wear an item that gives one to all skills, than the new max/cap is X +1.
Or are you thinking along the lines of some system, where you can increase the cap, without a blanket plus to all skills item?
I wouldn't imagine increasing a Skill's cap being something that's item based. I think of it more along the lines of something that just happens as you level or as some kind of quest reward. Of course, in either of those situations, it really isn't any more interesting to add a few more points to a Skill's cap versus just putting a point into a Skill whose cap is higher and static. It could be an interesting concept though, I'm just not sure how it would be incorporated in an interesting/challenging fashion.
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Official Blizzard Quote:
Did we not already talk about that? Think we did. Like the cap raises another five every difficulty level? So when you reach hell difficulty the caps would be at 15? No? Did we not say that at the last BlizzCon? Think we did.
And then...
Official Blizzard Quote:
Ignore everything I said about raising skill caps, that was an old, old design for how it could potentially work and I had a lapse of memory.
So that's definitely not how it's working anymore.
If they decide to let you spend more points into a skill as your character progresses I hope they do it based on your level, not what difficulty your in, wtf is that?
it should be you can put 5 points into a skill, then 10(5 more) once you reach level 30, then 15(5 more) at say level 45.
thats IF they decide to take that route, it looks like skill power will increase with traits.
A skill might max at 5, but don't forget the power of that skill can now go up with -items -character level- and now traits. Which brings a point, yes you might max 7-8 skills, but will you really optimize the power of all 7-8? you might only max 2 or 3 skills optimization through traits/items etc Personally I don't see a problem with 7 maxed skills XD
So there are lots of ways they can balance things, and I have faith they know what they are doing ( if they scrap the whole put more points in once you beat a certain difficulty XD)
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I'm thinking not all skills will have the same max maybe? Take D2 teleport did anyone ever both with more than like 1 point into that and it worked great.
As for the Skill points, I don't think we've heard anything concrete about it. But, based on 7 skills and 59 points, 15-20 would make sense, as you'd still have to choose which of those skills you'll max and which will get fewer points.
I'm thinking that they'll be a bit more lenient in this regard. 10 points per skill means, obviously, you can max out five skills and have nine points left to spend on the remaining two. That means there's some variation in build without being needlessly punishing. Build differences will be based on tons of other factors: selected skill, runes, charms, equipment, artisan specializations, etc. There's no need to artificially force the choices with overly restrictive skill points.
I must have missed this piece of the puzzle - when did this get revealed?
In progress: Barbarian, WD
@Doomscream: I missed that, too. I do remember there being mention of some way to unlock higher levels of skills. Where did they say that we'll need higher ranks for higher-level runes?
As far as Skill points/caps go, we'll have at least 59 points (maybe more from quests?), so I agree that spreading those points out over 7 20-point Skills is probably a bit much, but I'd like to see a cap where it's really only possible to max maybe 3 skills. I think if you can max out 5 skills, it makes the decision of where to put the rest of your points far less interesting (only 2 more skills to choose from) than if you have to choose how to distribute them over 4 skills. I guess I like the idea of having a choice between having a few very powerful Skills and a few reasonably strong Skills vs. several very powerful skills and a couple weak ones. Basically, if we're getting 60 Skill points, spreading those out among 70 options (10-point cap) isn't particularly interesting IMO. It'll be higher than 10.
One thing that's interesting to consider that pernunz brought up is different Skills having different caps. If you look at the blue post that Doomscream posted, Bashiok says:
Official Blizzard Quote:
The limitation, currently, is based on level of the skill. Level of the skill is determined by character level to pump points into the skill, but it's also determined by upping that skill to higher caps. As a completely made up example, you may need 6 skill points in a skill before you can socket in a rank 3 rune. But you can't spend more than 5 skill points in that skill until you up the cap! Ha HAH!
Mechanics for increasing a skill's cap are still in design.
Wouldn't this be similiar to D2 with an item giving a bonus to all skills? So if you max out one spell to X and then wear an item that gives one to all skills, than the new max/cap is X +1.
Or are you thinking along the lines of some system, where you can increase the cap, without a blanket plus to all skills item?
edit: clarification.
Monkalicious: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/OptimusPrime-12194/hero/79139477
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Official Blizzard Quote:
Did we not already talk about that? Think we did. Like the cap raises another five every difficulty level? So when you reach hell difficulty the caps would be at 15? No? Did we not say that at the last BlizzCon? Think we did.
And then...
Official Blizzard Quote:
Ignore everything I said about raising skill caps, that was an old, old design for how it could potentially work and I had a lapse of memory.
So that's definitely not how it's working anymore.
it should be you can put 5 points into a skill, then 10(5 more) once you reach level 30, then 15(5 more) at say level 45.
thats IF they decide to take that route, it looks like skill power will increase with traits.
A skill might max at 5, but don't forget the power of that skill can now go up with -items -character level- and now traits. Which brings a point, yes you might max 7-8 skills, but will you really optimize the power of all 7-8? you might only max 2 or 3 skills optimization through traits/items etc Personally I don't see a problem with 7 maxed skills XD
So there are lots of ways they can balance things, and I have faith they know what they are doing ( if they scrap the whole put more points in once you beat a certain difficulty XD)