Are there going to be armor types such as barbs would be able (should be ) using plate armor.
and wizards be using cloth, or a light leather? because if everyone has the same type of armor it doesnt make sense.
why would a wizard carry around heavy armor? and of course barbs would have the heaviest most protective armor.
just wanted to know.
I moved your thread to the D3 section. Site suggestions and questions forum is for suggestions and questions about the site.
As for your question, armor will not be regarded as "Heavy", "cloth", or other descriptive words like this. Instead they will be things like gothic, tribal, ....
Every class can wear any armor. Each class will have their own unique look with the same armor equipped meaning a barb will never look like a WD even though they are wearing the same armor.
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The differences based on the character (ie Barbs having higher armor) will come more from your build (mainly traits for things like survivability) than from the piece of armor you are wearing. As in a Barb thats going a tank build will get health and armor traits. And each piece of armor will look different based on what class is wearing it. If you watch the Crafting Sanctuary panel from Blizzcon 2010 they show you how that works. Also, in a related matter, armors and weapons will be unlocked based on level, not stats.
I agree, the armor value being the same for all classes is a bit weird. However, as Jack pointed out, traits and mods on the items will make the difference. A trait that will give +%150 to armor is a huge increase. With that, caster will be looking for gear with plus spell dmg (or whatever it changed to) rather than any armor boost mod.
But yes, I don't like that the base armor value is going to be roughly the same for each class.
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As long as there are enough pieces, I think the base stats of the gear being the same across classes is fine. It's a illusion really, it's to make it feel like there is more gear than there is, also obviously to suit the class. As long as there is at very least as many separate pieces for each armor as there was in D2, than there shouldn't be any problem, the different looks as I said is just an illusion of choices.
@imbset, here watch 4:40 - 5:30 in this video to hear if from the D3 team themselves on this topic.
“We act as though comfort and luxury were the chief requirements of life, when all that we need to make us happy is something to be enthusiastic about.” - Albert Einstein
But the same piece of armour will still give the same 'defence' (for lack of a better word) to all chars, right? so all classes get the same benefits out of the same armour, even though in the barb it has metal, and in the WD it has cloth/wood? a bit silly.
Well the thing is they won't really. For example the Wiz and WD get extra bonuses from Willpower, and a piece of armor with more Willpower probably won't have as much defence, and traits will really play into how much armor someone gets. If you make a tank, you will get much more armor from the same piece as someone else, and classes like the barb will (probably) have more traits for armor than others. Thats not even taking into account the fact that stats will be distributed differently for each class. So if the Barb gets more Defense per level, they will have more damage reduction, and stuff like that.
And judging by our expiriences in D2, the amount of damage reduction a piece of armor gives is much less important than the other stats on the armor. So even though it might be a bit weird to have the WD's cloth-looking chestpiece give the same armor as the Barb's plate metal, that won't be nearly as important as the other stats the piece of armor gives, and each class/build will be looking for different amounts of different stats.
But the same piece of armour will still give the same 'defence' (for lack of a better word) to all chars, right? so all classes get the same benefits out of the same armour, even though in the barb it has metal, and in the WD it has cloth/wood? a bit silly.
Well the thing is they won't really. For example the Wiz and WD get extra bonuses from Willpower, and a piece of armor with more Willpower probably won't have as much defence, and traits will really play into how much armor someone gets. If you make a tank, you will get much more armor from the same piece as someone else, and classes like the barb will (probably) have more traits for armor than others. Thats not even taking into account the fact that stats will be distributed differently for each class. So if the Barb gets more Defense per level, they will have more damage reduction, and stuff like that. And judging by our expiriences in D2, the amount of damage reduction a piece of armor gives is much less important than the other stats on the armor. So even though it might be a bit weird to have the WD's cloth-looking chestpiece give the same armor as the Barb's plate metal, that won't be nearly as important as the other stats the piece of armor gives, and each class/build will be looking for different amounts of different stats.
Good point, even though the armors will have the same stats, the stats themselves work differently for each class.. The amount of balancing in this game is ridiculous, ten fold the work it looks like at a quick glance.
So now with that fact in mind that willpower only effects one class, mana another, and so on. Armor has a lot more possibilities as to what class it'll benefit most. This is pretty exciting.
It doesn't matter. Logically, it doesn't make any sense that you have to invest in traits to get more protection out of the same piece of armour. A breastplate is a breastplate is a breastplate, regardless of who wears it. Or at least that's how it should be. And in D2 armour didn't give you damage reduction, it gave you damage avoidance, which is something quite different.The way I think it should work: you unlock 'tiers' (for lack of better word) of armour that your char is able to wear. different classes start with different unlocked 'tiers' (ex: barb starts with 'Chain' unlocked, wiz only starts with 'Cloth' unlocked). you use trait points to unlock armour 'tiers'. This way, a barb has a natural advantage over other classes regarding what armour he can wear, but you can reach the best armour with all classes, as long as you're willing to invest several trait points.
I don't agree in how you think it should work. This in essence in the same as a strength, or dexterity requirements, just with a different look. In D2 the barb started with more Str, not much but that wasn't the point, the point was to hint at what kind of traits represent that class. Each class had to meet a trait (stat) requirement to use certain armor. This forced the player to use stat points on stats that might not have any other real use than to where a piece of gear. Your system essentially would do the same thing, time, and points spent just focussed on gear that you'll eventually replace, and those points might have been more useful somewhere else.
I think the system they have now, where lvl is the main requirement opens the door to a lot mroe opportunities for point distribution to benefit your character much more than just meeting a requiorment for a piece of temporary armor.
“We act as though comfort and luxury were the chief requirements of life, when all that we need to make us happy is something to be enthusiastic about.” - Albert Einstein
Blizzard's policy has always been gameplay first, and therefore any arguments about what is logical is pretty much invalid. And even if you want to argue about logic, I would say it makes complete sense that a Barb would know how to get more protection out of his armor than a Wiz, as the Barb must take damage to deal damage (both through the Fury system and because he's a melee character) and it makes perfect sense that his Traits allow him to do that more effectively than other classes. Blizzard feels as though a level based armor system is the way to go (and I would agree). The only way to go about that is by making it so that everyone can wear all armors when they reach the necessary level, or to basically rip off the system from WoW (granted it is in other games too) and make an armor tier system like you suggested.
Even though each class can wear every piece of armor, items with Willpower will favor the WD and Wiz, items with higher defense and health will favor tank builds, and items with higher attack will favor DPS builds. Thats not even mentioning builds that need more Precision, or a mix of Precision and Attack, or any other combination of skills. The armor value of a piece of gear will be one of the least important stats on it, and even so it will be able to be heavily modified by Traits to make it so that the Barb still will have an advantage over other classes in survivability when it comes to pure armor value. Blizzard's solution to this problem pretty much seems to be that even though each class can wear every piece of armor, not only will certain classes not be interested in certain armors, but the look and stat/armor values change completely based on Traits. Even though it is technically the same piece of armor, it will function completely differently on each class.
The way I think it should work: you unlock 'tiers' (for lack of better word) of armour that your char is able to wear. different classes start with different unlocked 'tiers' (ex: barb starts with 'Chain' unlocked, wiz only starts with 'Cloth' unlocked). you use trait points to unlock armour 'tiers'. This way, a barb has a natural advantage over other classes regarding what armour he can wear, but you can reach the best armour with all classes, as long as you're willing to invest several trait points.
I agree with this. It sounds pretty vanilla to me that armor doesn't have any particularly "armorly" qualities to it at all. Basically, armor essentially becomes a "character/trait amplifier," and that can lead to REALLY boring gameplay. So this is what I'm getting out of what we're saying here:
1. Armor falls off dead monster
2. While falling, armor catches the eyes of its new owner and says "Oh sweet hero, what qualities would you ask of me? Nay, don't tell me, I already know you in my heart.. You look frail and magicky, so I'll cast off these huge plates of steel and warp into something you'll find a bit more comfortable. Thirsty? Here have some mana from the same attribute pool that would give a barbarian damage mitigation."
3. Armor falls to ground and is inspected by player.
4. Player sees he can equip the armor, and OH how those tailored attributes feel nice! Gee, he says as he washes down his vanilla wafer with vanilla coke, EVERYTHING is GOING so WELL!
5. Player and chameleonic armor dance merry through the orchid fields.
Fine, fallacy of emotive language, whatever the point still stands. I want tons and tons of gear to drop, and I want most of it to be utterly useless. That's called replayability friends.
Also, that video of the crafting sanc panel didn't hint at all about how gear attributes and stats would change respective to owner, they were purely talking about looks. I hope that's not your source.
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"Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions."
-Thomas Jefferson
@Jackzor to add to that, I know this is a thread about armor, but I see it as a thread about gear in general. So keeping that in mind, on top of how each armor will greatly benefit one or 2 classes better than the rest, (which is pretty much the simple point) weapons will be the main class distinguishing characteristic.
Example, while this breast plate might be equally as good on the monk as on the barb, the weapons the are using will very likely be different, which hopefully will aid their skills.
that video of the crafting sanc panel didn't hint at all about how gear attributes and stats would change respective to owner, they were purely talking about looks. I hope that's not your source.
I want tons and tons of gear to drop, and I want most of it to be utterly useless. That's called replayability friends.
If you had watched all of the 8 video panels of blizzcon you'd know that Jay stated that there would be tons, and tons of "useless" items that will drop, which in turn makes decent items feel decent, rare items feel rare in comparison and so on up the tiers. He also touched on that you will get items which have traits for other classes. The stats do not change on the item from mana, to willpower or any other pool just because you dropped, or traded with or from a different class. If this was the case Jay would not have said that some items will have bonuses that will be useless to you.
“We act as though comfort and luxury were the chief requirements of life, when all that we need to make us happy is something to be enthusiastic about.” - Albert Einstein
And even if you want to argue about logic, I would say it makes complete sense that a Barb would know how to get more protection out of his armor than a Wiz, as the Barb must take damage to deal damage (both through the Fury system and because he's a melee character) and it makes perfect sense that his Traits allow him to do that more effectively than other classes.
That, friend, is complete bullshit.
First, you don't treat the simple fact that physical strength limits what armor you can wear and still be effective.
Second you (try to) refute the idea that characteristics are imbued into gear, which is precisely what makes them unique, which is precisely what makes them very very exciting to find.
Thirdly, unless you're talking about a Barb blacksmithing drops on the fly, which of course you're not, a Barb knowing how to fight has absolutely NOTHING to do with the physical characteristics of a piece of armor. The fact that Blizzard seems to think that this philosophy is acceptable is stupid. I would go further to say it will detract from the fun of looting. Here's why:
If they make less gear drop (per monster killed), because a larger percentage of it will be readily equipped as an upgrade - since it's pre-tailored to meet the target character's needs - That means longer "dry spells," with little/no drops, which isn't fun.
If they keep a very high, Diablo 2 esque gear drop rate, that means we'll be so inundated with viable upgrades, that we'll lose the fun of the chase, which is rooted in rarity. That isn't fun either.
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"Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions."
-Thomas Jefferson
@Dolaiim, if you read my post you recall, "the different looks as I said is just an illusion of choices." "looks" being the keyword. I never said anything about stats referring to that video. You should watch them.
Well then you should rethink how you contextualize your references. You wrote one entire paragraph talking about stats AND looks, then you reference the video. How's that my bad I didn't know you were only using the video to reference the fact that there are different colors. The OP wasn't just talking about the looks, why were you?
You also hit on the exact reason I'm griping here: Blizzard is giving us an ILLUSION of choices. Hardcore gamers like us aren't fooled for long by illusions of choice in gameplay. I'm not gonna grind a new DYE for my vanilla armor. I'm leaving it WHITE. Or, off-white. Or, black if it's in extract form. Nope, I'm gonna grind for unique gear.
EDIT: Also, I did watch them. Many times. Your assumption that I didn't would be profoundly insulting if I had a non-negligible amount of respect for you.
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"Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions."
-Thomas Jefferson
First, you don't treat the simple fact that physical strength limits what armor you can wear and still be effective.
Right, which is why the armor looks completely different on each class, so its not like the weak WD is weighed down by plate armor. He wears light tribal clothing. The Wizard wears a combination of cloth and plate, and sometimes only cloth, and only the Barbarian wears the full plate that would weigh down most classes.
Second you (try to) refute the idea that characteristics are imbued into gear, which is precisely what makes them unique, which is precisely what makes them very very exciting to find.
How? The only way I got close to that was by saying that Traits enhance those characteristics based on your build. Its the same as the Barbarian having things like Iron Skin in D2.
Thirdly, unless you're talking about a Barb blacksmithing drops on the fly, which of course you're not, a Barb knowing how to fight has absolutely NOTHING to do with the physical characteristics of a piece of armor.
Yes, but a Barb knowing how to adjust and wear his armor, not to mention that he'd probably be very comfortable in full plate, at least compared to most people, does. Once again, its pretty much the same as passive armor skills in D2, or any game for that matter.
If they make less gear drop (per monster killed), because a larger percentage of it will be readily equipped as an upgrade - since it's pre-tailored to meet the target character's needs - That means longer "dry spells," with little/no drops, which isn't fun.
If they keep a very high, Diablo 2 esque gear drop rate, that means we'll be so inundated with viable upgrades, that we'll lose the fun of the chase, which is rooted in rarity. That isn't fun either.
Dry spells are part of a random loot system. Their current system in no way makes it so, or even implies that, less gear will drop per monster kill. They've made it clear that you'll still get large amounts of loot, some useful, some not, just like in the previous games. There will still be common stuff mixed in with rare items. The current stat/Trait system just makes it so that more classes can use any given piece of gear. That doesn't mean that you wont get useless drops combined with useful ones. It just means that its less likely that something drops that no one in your group can use (barring class-specific items).
Okay, first of all, I'm getting a bit tired of the argument of "oh, blizzard wants this and blizzard wants that". You know they CAN be wrong, right? If we're not gonna challenge what they do, what's the point of opening these threads?
They can also be right. And I think they are in this situation. Therefore, I'm defending and trying to explain their choice through their stated policies.
You're confusing defence skill with pure damage mitigation through armour. I agree that the barb has more skill in defending himself, but that could be accomplished through traits that don't give you +% defence, but give you a flat bonus. if blizz makes this bonus scalable, you don't risk it becoming obsolete.
How would flat bonuses make it so that you don't become obsolete? Adding a percentage of your current defense scales much better than a flat number, which is what I think you're saying.
So, it's in other games, but you still felt the need to call it "ripping off WoW's system". nice. and i only used 'tier' to give the impression of better armour class. call it 'light', 'medium' and 'heavy', if you want, or whatever else you feel like.
Which is why I pointed out that its in other games, but my main point was that if the D3 team were to do something like that, chances are it would be similar to WoW's system. Either way, I still like the current system more than a generic cloth/plate or light/heavy system.
That's terrible! How is that a good thing at all???
How is that terrible? Saying its the least important doesn't mean that its not important. But obviously you can't get around the fact that no one but tanks will really care about their armor value, unless everyone's always taking damage, which means tanks are useless, so thats a completely different story.
If all mods can spawn equally in all armour 'types', then the underlined part is simply not true. ALL classes will be interested in the heaviest armour, as long as it has good mods...and that's just up to luck.
Every mod can spawn on every armor, but that doesn't mean that every class will be interested in the heaviest armor. If it spawns as "of the Boar" which gives Attack and a higher armor value, then a melee class would probably want it. If its "of the Cat" which gives Attack and Precision, then some DPS would want it. Every class may be interested in every prefix, such as Breastplate or Raiment, but if not every class will be interested in every mod. And mods can effect every value on a piece of armor, so its not like everyone will have 100 armor on their chestpiece with different stats on it.
First, you don't treat the simple fact that physical strength limits what armor you can wear and still be effective.
Right, which is why the armor looks completely different on each class, so its not like the weak WD is weighed down by plate armor. He wears light tribal clothing. The Wizard wears a combination of cloth and plate, and sometimes only cloth, and only the Barbarian wears the full plate that would weigh down most classes.
My point: One piece of armor cannot be cloth-friendly or plate-friendly based on who it's falling for. A piece of plate armor is plate. If a WD needs cloth, TOUGH COOKIES PAL, keep looking. The fact that armor can intelligently adapt to the needs of the acquirer is to me a recipe for lowered funfactor.
To be more verbose: What I'm talking about is a piece of armor dropping off a monster. That armor, in a non-vanilla world, will have specific characteristics (such as type, quantity and quality of material used, magical attributes, etc) which will govern weight, how much physical damage it mitigates, and bonus to character attributes. This leads to character stat requirements (str, dex, etc). It's the idea that Blizzard is doing away with item characteristics, and instead just making them "trait/build" amplifiers, seems very negative to me.
Second you (try to) refute the idea that characteristics are imbued into gear, which is precisely what makes them unique, which is precisely what makes them very very exciting to find.
How? The only way I got close to that was by saying that Traits enhance those characteristics based on your build. Its the same as the Barbarian having things like Iron Skin in D2.
Iron skin is a passive skill. Are you saying that physical pieces of armor are equivalent to passive skills?
I'll end my rebuttals there. Look, you're probably saying "Hey, chill dude, Bliz knows what they're doing, it'll be fine, and fun, so calm the fack down." And you're probably right.
But to answer a different thread, I've been able to follow the game this long without losing interest by arguing hypothetical minutiae.
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"Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions."
-Thomas Jefferson
My point: One piece of armor cannot be cloth-friendly or plate-friendly based on who it's falling for. A piece of plate armor is plate. If a WD needs cloth, TOUGH COOKIES PAL, keep looking. The fact that armor can intelligently adapt to the needs of the acquirer is to me a recipe for lowered funfactor.
To be more verbose: What I'm talking about is a piece of armor dropping off a monster. That armor, in a non-vanilla world, will have specific characteristics (such as type, quantity and quality of material used, magical attributes, etc) which will govern weight, how much physical damage it mitigates, and bonus to character attributes. This leads to character stat requirements (str, dex, etc). It's the idea that Blizzard is doing away with item characteristics, and instead just making them "trait/build" amplifiers, seems very negative to me.
Well then I guess it really just comes down to opinion. The completely unique looks for each class, even when they're wearing the same armor, is one of the best things about this game imo. And also, nothing will be declared as "Plate Armor." Pieces of gear will have more ambiguous names than that to account for the fact that they aren't cloth/plate/chain on every class
And to be clear, item characteristics will still play a huge role. The Traits that modify these characteristics (to the best of my understanding) will be less important than the gear itself.
Iron skin is a passive skill. Are you saying that physical pieces of armor are equivalent to passive skills?
No, but it still has the same end result of increasing survivability through a passive bonus.
I'll end my rebuttals there. Look, you're probably saying "Hey, chill dude, Bliz knows what they're doing, it'll be fine, and fun, so calm the fack down." And you're probably right.
Haha no way, I definitely enjoy these kinds of conversations. But I am probably right
But to answer a different thread, I've been able to follow the game this long without losing interest by arguing hypothetical minutiae.
Oh yea. I'd be long gone and just waiting for the actual release if it weren't for people on these forums dwelling on every detail.
What I was saying was: give the barbarian some traits that increase his survivability, but that don't mess with the armour rating of the armour pieces.
Well he has other survivability Traits, and also has Traits that increase his armor rating. Though they did say they wanted to cut down on the amount of Traits so that kind of overlap could definitely get eliminated.
Blizz themselves have said that they don't want classes to have roles (tank, healer, DPS, etc), everyone will be DPS. Also, the game has to be soloable. SOOO....no tanks. Everyone will be taking damage. Period.
Yes, but unless they have some new, revolutionary boss fights, there will be one person that takes more damage than the rest, or at least one person who has the boss' attention. Unless every boss has only AoE attacks. And maybe tank is a bad word. I'm more talking about someone who invests in survivability than a straight tank, as you are right about the roles.
You're not following. Given the same mods, everyone wants the armour with the highest armour rating. If all mods spawn equally on all armour types, everyone wants the heaviest armour, as long as they have good mods, which is up to luck. So, what you said, "some classes won't want some armour types" is just not true.
Yea, everyone will want the highest level armor. What I was more talking about was that not everyone will want every mod, so there will still be stuff thats class or build specific.
I'd be lying if I said I feel like debating opinion and views anymore.. We're talking about armor across classes. The class specific traits, prerequisites, and looks. There are worries about re-playability, balance across classes, and opinions on what requirements should be met. No matter how hard you try this is one of those threads which could go on forever because it's so convoluted. WE haven't seen the system in action, we're missing fact about how stats work across classes, and how or if the pool traits are class specific on the armor. Speculation is great, but debating it is a wild goose chase. Let's stick with the facts we know.
- Looks change class specific.
- There is only a lvl req.
- There will be some aspect that is class specific as said by Jay at blizzcon, though we're not 100% sure what.
“We act as though comfort and luxury were the chief requirements of life, when all that we need to make us happy is something to be enthusiastic about.” - Albert Einstein
Secondly, nothing says that all classes must get the same amount of damage mitigation per 1 point of armor. This follows logically from the fact that each class has the armors' looks tailored to look good, and as such the armors will appear of different heaviness for each character. I think no str/dex requirements is a good choice.
.. Idky I didn't think of that.. Touche' Don. Though that's still to be proven, it would make perfect sense, and compliment each class'es play style.
“We act as though comfort and luxury were the chief requirements of life, when all that we need to make us happy is something to be enthusiastic about.” - Albert Einstein
It will be interesting if cross class armour wearing benefits certain weird/hybrid builds. But if cross class armour wearing becomes something normal and just happens unintentionally all the time, the class distinct meanings for their own identity will felt violated, like all the wearing can be thrown into the same bash, class capacity can become miscegenated hazardness, hope the wearing translation doesn't imply classes will lose its meaning literally.
Of course I don't think it will go that far, but just to write it down in case someone has a real opinion to confirm such horror. Or is it really that horrifying? Perhaps this possibility can branch out further classes development, a sixth, seventh class between those original five?
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and wizards be using cloth, or a light leather? because if everyone has the same type of armor it doesnt make sense.
why would a wizard carry around heavy armor? and of course barbs would have the heaviest most protective armor.
just wanted to know.
As for your question, armor will not be regarded as "Heavy", "cloth", or other descriptive words like this. Instead they will be things like gothic, tribal, ....
Every class can wear any armor. Each class will have their own unique look with the same armor equipped meaning a barb will never look like a WD even though they are wearing the same armor.
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But yes, I don't like that the base armor value is going to be roughly the same for each class.
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@imbset, here watch 4:40 - 5:30 in this video to hear if from the D3 team themselves on this topic.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiVAQOZgKO0
Well the thing is they won't really. For example the Wiz and WD get extra bonuses from Willpower, and a piece of armor with more Willpower probably won't have as much defence, and traits will really play into how much armor someone gets. If you make a tank, you will get much more armor from the same piece as someone else, and classes like the barb will (probably) have more traits for armor than others. Thats not even taking into account the fact that stats will be distributed differently for each class. So if the Barb gets more Defense per level, they will have more damage reduction, and stuff like that.
And judging by our expiriences in D2, the amount of damage reduction a piece of armor gives is much less important than the other stats on the armor. So even though it might be a bit weird to have the WD's cloth-looking chestpiece give the same armor as the Barb's plate metal, that won't be nearly as important as the other stats the piece of armor gives, and each class/build will be looking for different amounts of different stats.
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Good point, even though the armors will have the same stats, the stats themselves work differently for each class.. The amount of balancing in this game is ridiculous, ten fold the work it looks like at a quick glance.
So now with that fact in mind that willpower only effects one class, mana another, and so on. Armor has a lot more possibilities as to what class it'll benefit most. This is pretty exciting.
I don't agree in how you think it should work. This in essence in the same as a strength, or dexterity requirements, just with a different look. In D2 the barb started with more Str, not much but that wasn't the point, the point was to hint at what kind of traits represent that class. Each class had to meet a trait (stat) requirement to use certain armor. This forced the player to use stat points on stats that might not have any other real use than to where a piece of gear. Your system essentially would do the same thing, time, and points spent just focussed on gear that you'll eventually replace, and those points might have been more useful somewhere else.
I think the system they have now, where lvl is the main requirement opens the door to a lot mroe opportunities for point distribution to benefit your character much more than just meeting a requiorment for a piece of temporary armor.
Even though each class can wear every piece of armor, items with Willpower will favor the WD and Wiz, items with higher defense and health will favor tank builds, and items with higher attack will favor DPS builds. Thats not even mentioning builds that need more Precision, or a mix of Precision and Attack, or any other combination of skills. The armor value of a piece of gear will be one of the least important stats on it, and even so it will be able to be heavily modified by Traits to make it so that the Barb still will have an advantage over other classes in survivability when it comes to pure armor value. Blizzard's solution to this problem pretty much seems to be that even though each class can wear every piece of armor, not only will certain classes not be interested in certain armors, but the look and stat/armor values change completely based on Traits. Even though it is technically the same piece of armor, it will function completely differently on each class.
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I agree with this. It sounds pretty vanilla to me that armor doesn't have any particularly "armorly" qualities to it at all. Basically, armor essentially becomes a "character/trait amplifier," and that can lead to REALLY boring gameplay. So this is what I'm getting out of what we're saying here:
1. Armor falls off dead monster
2. While falling, armor catches the eyes of its new owner and says "Oh sweet hero, what qualities would you ask of me? Nay, don't tell me, I already know you in my heart.. You look frail and magicky, so I'll cast off these huge plates of steel and warp into something you'll find a bit more comfortable. Thirsty? Here have some mana from the same attribute pool that would give a barbarian damage mitigation."
3. Armor falls to ground and is inspected by player.
4. Player sees he can equip the armor, and OH how those tailored attributes feel nice! Gee, he says as he washes down his vanilla wafer with vanilla coke, EVERYTHING is GOING so WELL!
5. Player and chameleonic armor dance merry through the orchid fields.
Fine, fallacy of emotive language, whatever the point still stands. I want tons and tons of gear to drop, and I want most of it to be utterly useless. That's called replayability friends.
Also, that video of the crafting sanc panel didn't hint at all about how gear attributes and stats would change respective to owner, they were purely talking about looks. I hope that's not your source.
-Thomas Jefferson
Example, while this breast plate might be equally as good on the monk as on the barb, the weapons the are using will very likely be different, which hopefully will aid their skills.
@Dolaiim, if you read my post you recall,
I never said anything about stats referring to that video.
If you had watched all of the 8 video panels of blizzcon you'd know that Jay stated that there would be tons, and tons of "useless" items that will drop, which in turn makes decent items feel decent, rare items feel rare in comparison and so on up the tiers. He also touched on that you will get items which have traits for other classes. The stats do not change on the item from mana, to willpower or any other pool just because you dropped, or traded with or from a different class. If this was the case Jay would not have said that some items will have bonuses that will be useless to you.
You should watch them.
That, friend, is complete bullshit.
First, you don't treat the simple fact that physical strength limits what armor you can wear and still be effective.
Second you (try to) refute the idea that characteristics are imbued into gear, which is precisely what makes them unique, which is precisely what makes them very very exciting to find.
Thirdly, unless you're talking about a Barb blacksmithing drops on the fly, which of course you're not, a Barb knowing how to fight has absolutely NOTHING to do with the physical characteristics of a piece of armor. The fact that Blizzard seems to think that this philosophy is acceptable is stupid. I would go further to say it will detract from the fun of looting. Here's why:
If they make less gear drop (per monster killed), because a larger percentage of it will be readily equipped as an upgrade - since it's pre-tailored to meet the target character's needs - That means longer "dry spells," with little/no drops, which isn't fun.
If they keep a very high, Diablo 2 esque gear drop rate, that means we'll be so inundated with viable upgrades, that we'll lose the fun of the chase, which is rooted in rarity. That isn't fun either.
-Thomas Jefferson
Well then you should rethink how you contextualize your references. You wrote one entire paragraph talking about stats AND looks, then you reference the video. How's that my bad I didn't know you were only using the video to reference the fact that there are different colors. The OP wasn't just talking about the looks, why were you?
You also hit on the exact reason I'm griping here: Blizzard is giving us an ILLUSION of choices. Hardcore gamers like us aren't fooled for long by illusions of choice in gameplay. I'm not gonna grind a new DYE for my vanilla armor. I'm leaving it WHITE. Or, off-white. Or, black if it's in extract form. Nope, I'm gonna grind for unique gear.
EDIT: Also, I did watch them. Many times. Your assumption that I didn't would be profoundly insulting if I had a non-negligible amount of respect for you.
-Thomas Jefferson
Right, which is why the armor looks completely different on each class, so its not like the weak WD is weighed down by plate armor. He wears light tribal clothing. The Wizard wears a combination of cloth and plate, and sometimes only cloth, and only the Barbarian wears the full plate that would weigh down most classes.
How? The only way I got close to that was by saying that Traits enhance those characteristics based on your build. Its the same as the Barbarian having things like Iron Skin in D2.
Yes, but a Barb knowing how to adjust and wear his armor, not to mention that he'd probably be very comfortable in full plate, at least compared to most people, does. Once again, its pretty much the same as passive armor skills in D2, or any game for that matter.
Dry spells are part of a random loot system. Their current system in no way makes it so, or even implies that, less gear will drop per monster kill. They've made it clear that you'll still get large amounts of loot, some useful, some not, just like in the previous games. There will still be common stuff mixed in with rare items. The current stat/Trait system just makes it so that more classes can use any given piece of gear. That doesn't mean that you wont get useless drops combined with useful ones. It just means that its less likely that something drops that no one in your group can use (barring class-specific items).
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How would flat bonuses make it so that you don't become obsolete? Adding a percentage of your current defense scales much better than a flat number, which is what I think you're saying.
Which is why I pointed out that its in other games, but my main point was that if the D3 team were to do something like that, chances are it would be similar to WoW's system. Either way, I still like the current system more than a generic cloth/plate or light/heavy system.
How is that terrible? Saying its the least important doesn't mean that its not important. But obviously you can't get around the fact that no one but tanks will really care about their armor value, unless everyone's always taking damage, which means tanks are useless, so thats a completely different story.
Every mod can spawn on every armor, but that doesn't mean that every class will be interested in the heaviest armor. If it spawns as "of the Boar" which gives Attack and a higher armor value, then a melee class would probably want it. If its "of the Cat" which gives Attack and Precision, then some DPS would want it. Every class may be interested in every prefix, such as Breastplate or Raiment, but if not every class will be interested in every mod. And mods can effect every value on a piece of armor, so its not like everyone will have 100 armor on their chestpiece with different stats on it.
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My point: One piece of armor cannot be cloth-friendly or plate-friendly based on who it's falling for. A piece of plate armor is plate. If a WD needs cloth, TOUGH COOKIES PAL, keep looking. The fact that armor can intelligently adapt to the needs of the acquirer is to me a recipe for lowered funfactor.
To be more verbose: What I'm talking about is a piece of armor dropping off a monster. That armor, in a non-vanilla world, will have specific characteristics (such as type, quantity and quality of material used, magical attributes, etc) which will govern weight, how much physical damage it mitigates, and bonus to character attributes. This leads to character stat requirements (str, dex, etc). It's the idea that Blizzard is doing away with item characteristics, and instead just making them "trait/build" amplifiers, seems very negative to me.
Iron skin is a passive skill. Are you saying that physical pieces of armor are equivalent to passive skills?
I'll end my rebuttals there. Look, you're probably saying "Hey, chill dude, Bliz knows what they're doing, it'll be fine, and fun, so calm the fack down." And you're probably right.
But to answer a different thread, I've been able to follow the game this long without losing interest by arguing hypothetical minutiae.
-Thomas Jefferson
And to be clear, item characteristics will still play a huge role. The Traits that modify these characteristics (to the best of my understanding) will be less important than the gear itself.
No, but it still has the same end result of increasing survivability through a passive bonus.
Haha no way, I definitely enjoy these kinds of conversations. But I am probably right
Oh yea. I'd be long gone and just waiting for the actual release if it weren't for people on these forums dwelling on every detail.
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Yes, but unless they have some new, revolutionary boss fights, there will be one person that takes more damage than the rest, or at least one person who has the boss' attention. Unless every boss has only AoE attacks. And maybe tank is a bad word. I'm more talking about someone who invests in survivability than a straight tank, as you are right about the roles.
Yea, everyone will want the highest level armor. What I was more talking about was that not everyone will want every mod, so there will still be stuff thats class or build specific.
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- Looks change class specific.
- There is only a lvl req.
- There will be some aspect that is class specific as said by Jay at blizzcon, though we're not 100% sure what.
- I will have the best barb ever.
.. Idky I didn't think of that.. Touche' Don. Though that's still to be proven, it would make perfect sense, and compliment each class'es play style.
Of course I don't think it will go that far, but just to write it down in case someone has a real opinion to confirm such horror. Or is it really that horrifying? Perhaps this possibility can branch out further classes development, a sixth, seventh class between those original five?