Think about it. Dungeon crawlers always have one of the most simplest enemy AI of all game types out there. Diablo is no exception with practically every enemy in the game simply walking up to you in a straight line and beating ass until they die. Sure, some enemies use a magical move or two (ressurection, fireballs, etc.), and some others do the typical throw projectile and retreat strategy. But are these things really "smart" enemy AI?
Don't you think that in this day and age it's finally time for Diablo to get its biggest innovation of all -> highly intelligent enemies?
When I say this, I at least mean the brutes in Halo 3. Why is it that I still see zombies and ghouls simply walking up to me and beating my ass with no regard for self preservation? Why is it that skeleton archers aren't dodging my ass the same way pro Starcraft players can micro their marines? Why is it that absolutely no one is trying to incorporate better AI into a generally stale game type where enemy AI is at its worst?
If good enemy AI would make the game too hard, then why not just incorporate it on higher difficulties only? Blizzard says they don't want to make the game harder by simply spiking the enemy toughness and difficulty in general, so why not spike the AI instead?
(On another note, why not have enemies that have overpowered moves that the players must physically dodge to add a skill element and combine this with great AI? The possibilities are endless.)
EDIT: Note that shield bearers and berserkers protecting skeleton archers/cultists are NOT an example of good AI. Remember that the entire level you saw in the demo was completely pre-placed and static. The only reason these monsters appeared to be helping eachother was simply because they were PLACED in strategic positions beforehand. The berserkers still mindlessly tried to hit the barbarian and only looked like he was protecting cultists because he was already in front of them (the same going for the shieldbearers). Also, it's completely obvious that the Goatman Shaman leading his goatmen around was blatantly scripted. This and the other things I mentioned have nothing to do with advanced AI whatsoever.
I actually think this might be a good idea to be implanted BUT there's a few minor issues
Programming: We all know that Console games can achieve it, but Diablo is a game of one man versus hordes of demons HORDES, smart AI with every demon in that HORDE of HORDES is goign to be tough
Difficulty: Stated above, its going to be tough with each demon in that HORDE of HORDES going all strategic on you
I like the Idea of a better AI for monsters at higher difficulties in the game.
I don't think its that hard to achieve. They don't need to give each monster in a horde his own Uber AI, they could simply have horde AI. what I mean by that is, they could have each horde act more like a pack and work better together. They could do this by giving them different formations and tactics depending on the situation.
I mean, it sure would be nice to see the fallen actually work together to protect their shaman, instead of just having them run in separate directions each time one of them dies.
Umm, aren't they already doing this. I mean watch the gameplay video. The skeleton archers and the shield skeletons, the berserkers and those demon summoners. They are all working together. And don't forget the goatman leading the Barb and WD to an ambush.
I agree with Archie about that dicksmackl explain your self a bit better i'm confused bud lol. I do like the idea that later difficulties get better AI. that sounds alsum. so that its not just tough and powerful but is smart as well.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I Do not Consider myself to do Justice, But I Do not conside myself to do Evil Either."
www.myspace.com/mpotatoes for all your Trans Siberian Orchestra listening pleasure
If you want to arrange it
This world you can change it
If we could somehow make this
Christmas thing last
By helping a neighbor
Or even a stranger
And to know who needs help
You need only just ask
lol guys, difficulty is not a problem. if monster get really smart, meaning more effective attacks and defense systems, blizz could balance it by giving them less damage and life, simple as that
Yeah, I would love to have Hell difficulty be even more like Hell, due to monsters simply outsmarting the player.
For instance:
As a Barbarian, it's your first time into Hell difficulty. You run up onto a small grouping of devilkin in a dungeon. Simple enough, you start hacking and slashing away, and as you kill the first, as usual, the others scatter a little bit. So now you are taking them out one by one. You finally kill the second to last bastard, and the last one just keeps running, never coming to a stop. Barb chases after him, and runs into room with 10 berserkers, 10 cultists, and 3 unique monsters. You turn to run away, expecting the door to magically close, but it doesn't. Whew, close call. But take just one step outside of the door you just came, and you get swarmed by 10 shield skellies, 5 grotesques, supported by 10 archer skellies, and 2 unique monsters. You are completely and utterly screwed!!!
AI is not a problem at all. Monsters attack, you kill them. The only complaint I could really have is when you trap Mephisto and he can't just go around.
When I say this, I at least mean the brutes in Halo 3. Why is it that I still see zombies and ghouls simply walking up to me and beating my ass with no regard for self preservation? Why is it that skeleton archers aren't dodging my ass the same way pro Starcraft players can micro their marines? Why is it that absolutely no one is trying to incorporate better AI into a generally stale game type where enemy AI is at its worst?
Well zombies aren't generally known for their self preservation tactics.
And skeletons aren't known to be extremely agile.
I would like to see some better AI though where it makes sense. The blocking skeletons seemed pretty cool.
Yeah, I would love to have Hell difficulty be even more like Hell, due to monsters simply outsmarting the player.
For instance:
As a Barbarian, it's your first time into Hell difficulty. You run up onto a small grouping of devilkin in a dungeon. Simple enough, you start hacking and slashing away, and as you kill the first, as usual, the others scatter a little bit. So now you are taking them out one by one. You finally kill the second to last bastard, and the last one just keeps running, never coming to a stop. Barb chases after him, and runs into room with 10 berserkers, 10 cultists, and 3 unique monsters. You turn to run away, expecting the door to magically close, but it doesn't. Whew, close call. But take just one step outside of the door you just came, and you get swarmed by 10 shield skellies, 5 grotesques, supported by 10 archer skellies, and 2 unique monsters. You are completely and utterly screwed!!!
YAAAY!!!
I agree with this guy:rolleyes::thumbsup::thumbsup:
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
www.myspace.com/mpotatoes for all your Trans Siberian Orchestra listening pleasure
If you want to arrange it
This world you can change it
If we could somehow make this
Christmas thing last
By helping a neighbor
Or even a stranger
And to know who needs help
You need only just ask
Yeah, I would love to have Hell difficulty be even more like Hell, due to monsters simply outsmarting the player.
For instance:
As a Barbarian, it's your first time into Hell difficulty. You run up onto a small grouping of devilkin in a dungeon. Simple enough, you start hacking and slashing away, and as you kill the first, as usual, the others scatter a little bit. So now you are taking them out one by one. You finally kill the second to last bastard, and the last one just keeps running, never coming to a stop. Barb chases after him, and runs into room with 10 berserkers, 10 cultists, and 3 unique monsters. You turn to run away, expecting the door to magically close, but it doesn't. Whew, close call. But take just one step outside of the door you just came, and you get swarmed by 10 shield skellies, 5 grotesques, supported by 10 archer skellies, and 2 unique monsters. You are completely and utterly screwed!!!
YAAAY!!!
That isn't really a bad idea but to put that kind of AI into Diablo with all the different creatures is truly a lot... a lot... of work.
That isn't really a bad idea but to put that kind of AI into Diablo with all the different creatures is truly a lot... a lot... of work.
It will be worth it in the end :thumbsup:
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
www.myspace.com/mpotatoes for all your Trans Siberian Orchestra listening pleasure
If you want to arrange it
This world you can change it
If we could somehow make this
Christmas thing last
By helping a neighbor
Or even a stranger
And to know who needs help
You need only just ask
Yeah, I would love to have Hell difficulty be even more like Hell, due to monsters simply outsmarting the player.
For instance:
As a Barbarian, it's your first time into Hell difficulty. You run up onto a small grouping of devilkin in a dungeon. Simple enough, you start hacking and slashing away, and as you kill the first, as usual, the others scatter a little bit. So now you are taking them out one by one. You finally kill the second to last bastard, and the last one just keeps running, never coming to a stop. Barb chases after him, and runs into room with 10 berserkers, 10 cultists, and 3 unique monsters. You turn to run away, expecting the door to magically close, but it doesn't. Whew, close call. But take just one step outside of the door you just came, and you get swarmed by 10 shield skellies, 5 grotesques, supported by 10 archer skellies, and 2 unique monsters. You are completely and utterly screwed!!!
YAAAY!!!
That seems pretty unbalanced. What if you're a ranged or magic character and just kill the devilkin? You now just avoided the most annoying death ever just for being a non melee character.
That seems pretty unbalanced. What if you're a ranged or magic character and just kill the devilkin? You now just avoided the most annoying death ever just for being a non melee character.
He can still run back and call for assistance next thing you know its like
WOOT HE RAN AWAY!!! LETS PARTY *Three minits later a horde of axe weilding beasts come spewing out in a non orderly fashion and with your volume up prerty loud you hear a RRROOOOAAARRRRRR* Not only do you piss your pants at such a thing your running for your life.:D:thumbsup:
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
www.myspace.com/mpotatoes for all your Trans Siberian Orchestra listening pleasure
If you want to arrange it
This world you can change it
If we could somehow make this
Christmas thing last
By helping a neighbor
Or even a stranger
And to know who needs help
You need only just ask
Don't you think that in this day and age it's finally time for Diablo to get its biggest innovation of all -> highly intelligent enemies?
When I say this, I at least mean the brutes in Halo 3. Why is it that I still see zombies and ghouls simply walking up to me and beating my ass with no regard for self preservation? Why is it that skeleton archers aren't dodging my ass the same way pro Starcraft players can micro their marines? Why is it that absolutely no one is trying to incorporate better AI into a generally stale game type where enemy AI is at its worst?
If good enemy AI would make the game too hard, then why not just incorporate it on higher difficulties only? Blizzard says they don't want to make the game harder by simply spiking the enemy toughness and difficulty in general, so why not spike the AI instead?
(On another note, why not have enemies that have overpowered moves that the players must physically dodge to add a skill element and combine this with great AI? The possibilities are endless.)
EDIT: Note that shield bearers and berserkers protecting skeleton archers/cultists are NOT an example of good AI. Remember that the entire level you saw in the demo was completely pre-placed and static. The only reason these monsters appeared to be helping eachother was simply because they were PLACED in strategic positions beforehand. The berserkers still mindlessly tried to hit the barbarian and only looked like he was protecting cultists because he was already in front of them (the same going for the shieldbearers). Also, it's completely obvious that the Goatman Shaman leading his goatmen around was blatantly scripted. This and the other things I mentioned have nothing to do with advanced AI whatsoever.
Programming: We all know that Console games can achieve it, but Diablo is a game of one man versus hordes of demons HORDES, smart AI with every demon in that HORDE of HORDES is goign to be tough
Difficulty: Stated above, its going to be tough with each demon in that HORDE of HORDES going all strategic on you
I don't think its that hard to achieve. They don't need to give each monster in a horde his own Uber AI, they could simply have horde AI. what I mean by that is, they could have each horde act more like a pack and work better together. They could do this by giving them different formations and tactics depending on the situation.
I mean, it sure would be nice to see the fallen actually work together to protect their shaman, instead of just having them run in separate directions each time one of them dies.
Anyone agree?
Vote:
http://www.diablofans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17929
Making Controversial points one post at a time!
If you want to arrange it
This world you can change it
If we could somehow make this
Christmas thing last
By helping a neighbor
Or even a stranger
And to know who needs help
You need only just ask
For instance:
As a Barbarian, it's your first time into Hell difficulty. You run up onto a small grouping of devilkin in a dungeon. Simple enough, you start hacking and slashing away, and as you kill the first, as usual, the others scatter a little bit. So now you are taking them out one by one. You finally kill the second to last bastard, and the last one just keeps running, never coming to a stop. Barb chases after him, and runs into room with 10 berserkers, 10 cultists, and 3 unique monsters. You turn to run away, expecting the door to magically close, but it doesn't. Whew, close call. But take just one step outside of the door you just came, and you get swarmed by 10 shield skellies, 5 grotesques, supported by 10 archer skellies, and 2 unique monsters. You are completely and utterly screwed!!!
YAAAY!!!
We are accomplices.
Well zombies aren't generally known for their self preservation tactics.
And skeletons aren't known to be extremely agile.
I would like to see some better AI though where it makes sense. The blocking skeletons seemed pretty cool.
That isn't really AI though, it's just their ability.
We are accomplices.
Well yeah I guess but with the combination of the archers behind it makes things a little harder. It's not AI but I like it.
I don't really want to see insane AI in a hacknslash game.
I agree with this guy:rolleyes::thumbsup::thumbsup:
If you want to arrange it
This world you can change it
If we could somehow make this
Christmas thing last
By helping a neighbor
Or even a stranger
And to know who needs help
You need only just ask
That isn't really a bad idea but to put that kind of AI into Diablo with all the different creatures is truly a lot... a lot... of work.
We are accomplices.
It will be worth it in the end :thumbsup:
If you want to arrange it
This world you can change it
If we could somehow make this
Christmas thing last
By helping a neighbor
Or even a stranger
And to know who needs help
You need only just ask
That seems pretty unbalanced. What if you're a ranged or magic character and just kill the devilkin? You now just avoided the most annoying death ever just for being a non melee character.
He can still run back and call for assistance next thing you know its like
WOOT HE RAN AWAY!!! LETS PARTY *Three minits later a horde of axe weilding beasts come spewing out in a non orderly fashion and with your volume up prerty loud you hear a RRROOOOAAARRRRRR* Not only do you piss your pants at such a thing your running for your life.:D:thumbsup:
If you want to arrange it
This world you can change it
If we could somehow make this
Christmas thing last
By helping a neighbor
Or even a stranger
And to know who needs help
You need only just ask