I'm making this thread in order to show "anti-petitioners" what arguments, they tend to use all lot against the petition, just don't really work.
Number one "Diablo 3 is set 20 years after Diablo 2 and the world has been cleansed up until now, making the world brighter and nicer." this theory doesn't quit work. There are still oviusly plenty of evil in the dungeons, hens the ghouls and all the zombies.
Number two making the ambients, of the world, darker would set Diablo 3 back another two years, no this is not right. Considering Blizzard worked on the engine quit a bit before even starting Diablo 3 I'm assuming they made dev editors so its not raw and since they spent all that time I can't help but think they made light editors in, to help them make the lighting just right. With that being said I can say it should not take every long at all, probably 1-2 days.
Number three "How could you make a strong judgment on the game when only seeing 20min of it" and "Blizzard is still in development, you can't know that is how its going to stay". Blizzard didn't just throw together a random piece of crap and film it to show us, they put everything they wanted to show us, at that time, in to the video, including the Art. You know blizzard doesn't like to show us thing that aren't done to their full potential. Blizzard has said in a few places that, "... now pretty much its just making content for the game ..." ,and Art is usaly not content, showing that they were going to sty with this.
They think because blizzard cares about what their fans say, that they will completely change their art design
Exactly, Blizzard cares about their fans' opinions more than most other large companies in my expirience, but it doesn't mean you should actually expect a complete revamp of the game because you clicked on a button on some website.
If you knew a bit about lore you would know that if the essence of terror, hate and destruction would be around, it wouldn't be quite a quaint place anyway. The evil had been ravaging the land after Diablo passed the acts. You would have read in the lore on Arreat Summit that the quilt rats have transformed after Diablo's passing. That is the sole reason where there are monsters and demons around and stuff like that.
If you read on the Diablo 3 site about the Khezra (the satyr guys, or clans) you would know that they were weak and usually ran away from people until very recently, as well as the lore about those cultists. Everything started happening RECENTLY. The essence of the Three is no more and the Zakarum has been reinstaurated. Everything has been peaceful and nothing could, let's say, "burn the grass". There was NO evil, not as much as when Diablo and his brothers roamed the world.
Not everything is scorched earth in this world, actually, the city of Harrogath was quite clean and nice, albeit cold and snowy, and Cain DOES say that he is at odds with the fact that the place looks so... UNTOUCHED!
There, end of the argument, what will you say?
nothing you have your right to your opinion ... a good one at that
Most of you complaint-whores didn't even download the high res gameplay, it looks fucking awesome, and if you think that was the most of what they have in store, you my friend, are an asshat. Most of you just let a couple of opinionated retards put words in your mouth, without thinking twice. Look at the attention to detail (and dont give me that blown up griffin statue) its fucking EPIC!
I'm making this thread in order to show "anti-petitioners" what arguments, they tend to use all lot against the petition, just don't really work.
You sir clearly didn't even bother to watch any Art or Gameplay panes, did you !!!?
I'll just try give what you are missing, so stay a while and listen :cool:
Number one "Diablo 3 is set 20 years after Diablo 2 and the world has been cleansed up until now, making the world brighter and nicer." this theory doesn't quit work. There are still oviusly plenty of evil in the dungeons, hens the ghouls and all the zombies.
Number one
The world completely FORGOT about all the evil that happened in D2, and that clearly means there are NO SIGNS of it left anymore, and when the game starts that evil is just returning, it didn't have ANYTIME to damage the world that has been CLEAN for 20 years.
So it is 20 YEARS of PEACE VS few days or weeks of EVIL, go figure which one has the upper hand on the games looks.
Number two making the ambients, of the world, darker would set Diablo 3 back another two years, no this is not right. Considering Blizzard worked on the engine quit a bit before even starting Diablo 3 I'm assuming they made dev editors so its not raw and since they spent all that time I can't help but think they made light editors in, to help them make the lighting just right. With that being said I can say it should not take every long at all, probably 1-2 days.
Number two
I don't agree that it will set the game back for years, it wil delay the production cycle indeed but not for years, maybe few days or weeks, more importantly is that they won't change that anyway, want to know why ? on to point 3 :cool:
Numberthree
Number three "How could you make a strong judgment on the game when only seeing 20min of it" and "Blizzard is still in development, you can't know that is how its going to stay". Blizzard didn't just throw together a random piece of crap and film it to show us, they put everything they wanted to show us, at that time, in to the video, including the Art. You know blizzard doesn't like to show us thing that aren't done to their full potential. Blizzard has said in a few places that, "... now pretty much its just making content for the game ..." ,and Art is usaly not content, showing that they were going to sty with this.
Let's take this one step by step
-Yes, they didn't make a random movie, and the game has progressed a lot, that's true
-They have been working on the game for 4 years
-They tried two or three visual style including D2 visual style, and it DIDN'T work
-They found while trying D2 visual style that Black/very dark ambient ruins the game
-The textures and lighting are still being tweaked
-------------------------------------------------
Hope that answers your
And note that everything i said is taken from the interviews with the Devs and the Art panels, which you should really watch if you care the slightest bit about D3
got to agree with murderface. you guys are gonna pick out a select few things from a 20 minute video that may or may not be changed in the coming months and piss and moan about them? grow up and get off this gay band wagon of a petition. stop following everyone else, blizzard is not gonna change the art style for the simple fact that it looks awesome. d2 could only dream of the graphics that d3 is bringing to the table
I'm making this thread in order to show "anti-petitioners" what arguments, they tend to use all lot against the petition, just don't really work.
Number one "Diablo 3 is set 20 years after Diablo 2 and the world has been cleansed up until now, making the world brighter and nicer." this theory doesn't quit work. There are still oviusly plenty of evil in the dungeons, hens the ghouls and all the zombies.
Number two making the ambients, of the world, darker would set Diablo 3 back another two years, no this is not right. Considering Blizzard worked on the engine quit a bit before even starting Diablo 3 I'm assuming they made dev editors so its not raw and since they spent all that time I can't help but think they made light editors in, to help them make the lighting just right. With that being said I can say it should not take every long at all, probably 1-2 days.
Number three "How could you make a strong judgment on the game when only seeing 20min of it" and "Blizzard is still in development, you can't know that is how its going to stay". Blizzard didn't just throw together a random piece of crap and film it to show us, they put everything they wanted to show us, at that time, in to the video, including the Art. You know blizzard doesn't like to show us thing that aren't done to their full potential. Blizzard has said in a few places that, "... now pretty much its just making content for the game ..." ,and Art is usaly not content, showing that they were going to sty with this.
Yes! Just what we needed! Another post on this. WOOT! ^.^
Also dude I agree with you but cereal-dont make new topics about it.
I've never seen these arguments before. Thank you for confirming info and letting us know whats right or wrong about the game. Can I have your copy of d3 plzzzzz
the fact that there are 30k signatures of people dont like the graphics is an interesting one. most people i pressume watched the trailer and thought oh shit! D3 thats awesome! so they went out to find some forum to jump on to share their feelings and found, hmmm theres a petition whats this about. they read it and looked at the pictures people made and thought well maybe it could be a little darker. it was not their original idea, i would venture to say 90% of the people would have been perfectly happy with how it is but the fact that the only thing they need to do to voice "their opinion" is press a button it makes it just that easy to get 30k votes. not to mention im sure there are more than one vote for some people, im not saying everyone, but im sure some have voted several times.
in comparison, i believe... and i do stress believe here because im not positive on this one im just going off memory, that diablo 2 in its prime had close to a million or more players.... even say im way off and they only had 100k (which i highly doubt considering it was a top seller for several years)... the 30k signatures still does not represent a majority of the players. which i know there were well over 100k but just for comparison, if there really is going to be a change i would venture to say that it should at least be by majority vote.
Proper massive feedback works 90% of the time. It worked for starcrafters, they complained and in result Blizzard made SC2 better by fixing shitty graphics style.
the fact that there are 30k signatures of people dont like the graphics is an interesting one. most people i pressume watched the trailer and thought oh shit! D3 thats awesome! so they went out to find some forum to jump on to share their feelings and found, hmmm theres a petition whats this about. they read it and looked at the pictures people made and thought well maybe it could be a little darker. it was not their original idea, i would venture to say 90% of the people would have been perfectly happy with how it is but the fact that the only thing they need to do to voice "their opinion" is press a button it makes it just that easy to get 30k votes. not to mention im sure there are more than one vote for some people, im not saying everyone, but im sure some have voted several times.
in comparison, i believe... and i do stress believe here because im not positive on this one im just going off memory, that diablo 2 in its prime had close to a million or more players.... even say im way off and they only had 100k (which i highly doubt considering it was a top seller for several years)... the 30k signatures still does not represent a majority of the players. which i know there were well over 100k but just for comparison, if there really is going to be a change i would venture to say that it should at least be by majority vote.
Go take some statistics class you fool. You can't expect million people to vote, surveys are normally randomly based. Take a look at the survey on this board and look how many are in favor vs against new art direction of D3.
Just as a quick point. What about performance? Anti-art people are asking to increase the detail on the models. How do you propose they do this while still catering to a larger range of computers? Think about the amount of enemies that are on screen during D2. You would have to sacrifice gameplay in order to acheive higher detail on all of those monsters, not to mention the environment, and then it wouldn't feel like Diablo. Blizzard wants to cater to as many players as possible, which would need lower requirements. Thus, you have the level of detail so many complain about.
Also you can't trust the numbers you get from that petition. When it was around 5k and Ultramegazord released the comments to try and quell outcry about the petitions validity; there were many blank spaces, Â's, and duplicates. I know blank spaces don't necessarily mean someone was abusing the system, but it makes the vote dubious without proof. Obviously some were already abusing the system, and with increased publicity it could be assumed that a few more may have picked up the trend. The amount of signatures could be greatly skewed by now.
I'm not saying that there aren't valid signatures on there because there were, but you need to realize that it's simple to manipulate a site like that. The simple manipulation of that site, combined with summer, makes it more likely that people do waste their time stuffing the petition. Just look how many people participate in these forums.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Understanding is a three-edged sword: your side, their side, and the truth."
"Never argue with idiots, they will bring you down to their level and beat you with experience."
"A person is smart, people are idiots."
Those are good points. I doubt that Blizzard, if they are even going to consider that petition, will care about the raw numbers on it. If I were them, I'd just divide everything by at least 4 and consider that the amount of people who actually "care" enough. Of course, the proportion of those who are really affected would have to be calculated out of the number of Diablo fans reading forums like this. It certainly seems more than 10-20% form what I've seen.
Look, if Blizzard absolutely has to lower the polygon count for the sake of gameplay, that's fine - I would just like to know the specific numbers behind it. Is it that currently only 20% of 5 year-or-better computers would be able to play the game? Or, is it more about the fact that they want to market to Asia with their computer performance that is way behind North America?
I wouldn't mind so much if they really thought to cater to the original fanbase, they had to skimp on the graphical style, but if they were trying to destroy the core feeling of the game so that a few thousand more Chinese WoW gold-farmers would buy copies, I would be pretty disappointed. I think it would clear alot of things up if they released the specifics behind these technical issues. They also mentioned that they went through at least 3 visual redesigns - why? Can the community look at them and judge for themselves?
Just as a quick point. What about performance? Anti-art people are asking to increase the detail on the models. How do you propose they do this while still catering to a larger range of computers? Think about the amount of enemies that are on screen during D2. You would have to sacrifice gameplay in order to acheive higher detail on all of those monsters, not to mention the environment, and then it wouldn't feel like Diablo. Blizzard wants to cater to as many players as possible, which would need lower requirements. Thus, you have the level of detail so many complain about.
Also you can't trust the numbers you get from that petition. When it was around 5k and Ultramegazord released the comments to try and quell outcry about the petitions validity; there were many blank spaces, Â's, and duplicates. I know blank spaces don't necessarily mean someone was abusing the system, but it makes the vote dubious without proof. Obviously some were already abusing the system, and with increased publicity it could be assumed that a few more may have picked up the trend. The amount of signatures could be greatly skewed by now.
I'm not saying that there aren't valid signatures on there because there were, but you need to realize that it's simple to manipulate a site like that. The simple manipulation of that site, combined with summer, makes it more likely that people do waste their time stuffing the petition. Just look how many people participate in these forums.
So you mean a game must look cartoony and colorful in order to gain performance and have higher player base?
Thx for a civilised post, btw:) Much appreciated:)
you are welcome, i was all fired up earlier.. settled down a bit. well, at least in my defense, i should not have to petition for a game to stay like it is... to my knowledge, petitions are for a change correct? the closest example i could think of this would be say a governor thats abusing his power, you would petition to get him out of office, not for him to stay, hes already there thats obvious. also a second thought, people demanding change in general are more outspoked than people that are happy with something. out of a hundred people lets say, if ten of them are sincerily not happy about something, they will voice their opinion much more than the 90 that are. then you always get the middle ground people, that eventually give into those ten, so the ten becomes twenty lets say, then there are the people that are followers that fall in cause they see other people going in that direction, now you got 30 and so on. its a snowball effect.
would i be upset if they changed the colors to a more gloomy, depressing tone? nah probly not, to be completely honest i probly wouldnt even notice, considering we have only seen two zones of the world of sanctuary. in comparison, in act 1 of D2, Dark Wood is a rather peaceful place, theres plenty of trees, mountains, little farms scattered across the land. its not full of death and despare and completely scorched. while as you progress further into the game and get to say act 4 and step into the burning steps or river of flame it gets much creepier and darker. im just saying, we have no idea what this game holds after seeing so little, whos to say in the later levels of the game its not completely desolate.
Go take some statistics class you fool. You can't expect million people to vote, surveys are normally randomly based. Take a look at the survey on this board and look how many are in favor vs against new art direction of D3.
to be clear i never said once in my post that a million people should vote, i did however say that it should be a majority, as in half plus 1. please read the statement fully before you start bashing. also to be clear, its a petition we are talking about, not a survey, yes surveys are random. petitions are aimed at a specific person voting a specific way.
I don't think they set out to destroy the core feeling of the game. They said that it was one of the things they wished to preserve. What I think has happened is that they attempt to demonstate the feeling less thematically and more viscerally. I think they're trying to set the mood, and then let your own imagination fill in. Unfortunately for Blizzard, many have grown found of Diablo's gothic theme and shy from seeing it presented through different means. I'm not saying it's a bad thing, but with a series that is eight years old, they need to breath life into it. In this case it means colour and art design some are not familiar or comfortable with. They are attempting to relate with a larger audience and, to some loyal Diablo fans, it feels almost alien.
As for the visual redesigns, they said that it just didn't work. What I'm assuming is that using the old system didn't allow for as much flexibility in the storytelling department. Imagine using the D2 set of lighting and colours and trying to portray something moving in the darkness. It would be harder. However, with the current colours and lights you can see the sillouette of the SiegeBreaker in the background. Combine that with a gaurd panicking about something being alive down here, and you have a palpable mood to work with. Darkness and realism don't always help the feel.
I looked up some Titanquest images, and most don't seem to have nearly the number of mobs that Diablo or it's sequal had in them. I also don't think we'll be waiting that long for this game. It has been in development for 4 years and they've said that at least all of Act1 and all of the class are playable.
So you mean a game must look cartoony and colorful in order to gain performance and have higher player base?
In this case, yes. It was what Blizzard chose to do, and they even tried it the normal way.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Understanding is a three-edged sword: your side, their side, and the truth."
"Never argue with idiots, they will bring you down to their level and beat you with experience."
"A person is smart, people are idiots."
I don't think they set out to destroy the core feeling of the game. They said that it was one of the things they wished to preserve. What I think has happened is that they attempt to demonstate the feeling less thematically and more viscerally. I think they're trying to set the mood, and then let your own imagination fill in. Unfortunately for Blizzard, many have grown found of Diablo's gothic theme and shy from seeing it presented through different means. I'm not saying it's a bad thing, but with a series that is eight years old, they need to breath life into it. In this case it means colour and art design some are not familiar or comfortable with. They are attempting to relate with a larger audience and, to some loyal Diablo fans, it feels almost alien.
As for the visual redesigns, they said that it just didn't work. What I'm assuming is that using the old system didn't allow for as much flexibility in the storytelling department. Imagine using the D2 set of lighting and colours and trying to portray something moving in the darkness. It would be harder. However, with the current colours and lights you can see the sillouette of the SiegeBreaker in the background. Combine that with a gaurd panicking about something being alive down here, and you have a palpable mood to work with. Darkness and realism don't always help the feel.
very well thought out and put in simple terms
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
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Number one "Diablo 3 is set 20 years after Diablo 2 and the world has been cleansed up until now, making the world brighter and nicer." this theory doesn't quit work. There are still oviusly plenty of evil in the dungeons, hens the ghouls and all the zombies.
Number two making the ambients, of the world, darker would set Diablo 3 back another two years, no this is not right. Considering Blizzard worked on the engine quit a bit before even starting Diablo 3 I'm assuming they made dev editors so its not raw and since they spent all that time I can't help but think they made light editors in, to help them make the lighting just right. With that being said I can say it should not take every long at all, probably 1-2 days.
Number three "How could you make a strong judgment on the game when only seeing 20min of it" and "Blizzard is still in development, you can't know that is how its going to stay". Blizzard didn't just throw together a random piece of crap and film it to show us, they put everything they wanted to show us, at that time, in to the video, including the Art. You know blizzard doesn't like to show us thing that aren't done to their full potential. Blizzard has said in a few places that, "... now pretty much its just making content for the game ..." ,and Art is usaly not content, showing that they were going to sty with this.
They think because blizzard cares about what their fans say, that they will completely change their art design
Keep dreaming randoms
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Anywho, Blizz's already explained their reasons for the new direction - contrast. Though, personally, I think the dungeons could use a bit more gloom.
Exactly, Blizzard cares about their fans' opinions more than most other large companies in my expirience, but it doesn't mean you should actually expect a complete revamp of the game because you clicked on a button on some website.
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nothing you have your right to your opinion ... a good one at that
Fuck you, I'm a dragon.
You sir clearly didn't even bother to watch any Art or Gameplay panes, did you !!!?
I'll just try give what you are missing, so stay a while and listen :cool:
Number one
The world completely FORGOT about all the evil that happened in D2, and that clearly means there are NO SIGNS of it left anymore, and when the game starts that evil is just returning, it didn't have ANYTIME to damage the world that has been CLEAN for 20 years.
So it is 20 YEARS of PEACE VS few days or weeks of EVIL, go figure which one has the upper hand on the games looks.
Number two
I don't agree that it will set the game back for years, it wil delay the production cycle indeed but not for years, maybe few days or weeks, more importantly is that they won't change that anyway, want to know why ? on to point 3 :cool:
Numberthree
Let's take this one step by step
-Yes, they didn't make a random movie, and the game has progressed a lot, that's true
-They have been working on the game for 4 years
-They tried two or three visual style including D2 visual style, and it DIDN'T work
-They found while trying D2 visual style that Black/very dark ambient ruins the game
-The textures and lighting are still being tweaked
-------------------------------------------------
Hope that answers your
And note that everything i said is taken from the interviews with the Devs and the Art panels, which you should really watch if you care the slightest bit about D3
http://www.gamespot.com/video/930659/6193145/diablo-iii-gameplay-and-design-spotlight
Await you reply
Said the Barbarian before proceeding to slaughter everyone
http://www.petitiononline.com/d3color/petition.html
Yes! Just what we needed! Another post on this. WOOT! ^.^
Also dude I agree with you but cereal-dont make new topics about it.
I've never seen these arguments before. Thank you for confirming info and letting us know whats right or wrong about the game. Can I have your copy of d3 plzzzzz
in comparison, i believe... and i do stress believe here because im not positive on this one im just going off memory, that diablo 2 in its prime had close to a million or more players.... even say im way off and they only had 100k (which i highly doubt considering it was a top seller for several years)... the 30k signatures still does not represent a majority of the players. which i know there were well over 100k but just for comparison, if there really is going to be a change i would venture to say that it should at least be by majority vote.
Go take some statistics class you fool. You can't expect million people to vote, surveys are normally randomly based. Take a look at the survey on this board and look how many are in favor vs against new art direction of D3.
Also you can't trust the numbers you get from that petition. When it was around 5k and Ultramegazord released the comments to try and quell outcry about the petitions validity; there were many blank spaces, Â's, and duplicates. I know blank spaces don't necessarily mean someone was abusing the system, but it makes the vote dubious without proof. Obviously some were already abusing the system, and with increased publicity it could be assumed that a few more may have picked up the trend. The amount of signatures could be greatly skewed by now.
I'm not saying that there aren't valid signatures on there because there were, but you need to realize that it's simple to manipulate a site like that. The simple manipulation of that site, combined with summer, makes it more likely that people do waste their time stuffing the petition. Just look how many people participate in these forums.
"Never argue with idiots, they will bring you down to their level and beat you with experience."
"A person is smart, people are idiots."
Those are good points. I doubt that Blizzard, if they are even going to consider that petition, will care about the raw numbers on it. If I were them, I'd just divide everything by at least 4 and consider that the amount of people who actually "care" enough. Of course, the proportion of those who are really affected would have to be calculated out of the number of Diablo fans reading forums like this. It certainly seems more than 10-20% form what I've seen.
Look, if Blizzard absolutely has to lower the polygon count for the sake of gameplay, that's fine - I would just like to know the specific numbers behind it. Is it that currently only 20% of 5 year-or-better computers would be able to play the game? Or, is it more about the fact that they want to market to Asia with their computer performance that is way behind North America?
I wouldn't mind so much if they really thought to cater to the original fanbase, they had to skimp on the graphical style, but if they were trying to destroy the core feeling of the game so that a few thousand more Chinese WoW gold-farmers would buy copies, I would be pretty disappointed. I think it would clear alot of things up if they released the specifics behind these technical issues. They also mentioned that they went through at least 3 visual redesigns - why? Can the community look at them and judge for themselves?
So you mean a game must look cartoony and colorful in order to gain performance and have higher player base?
you are welcome, i was all fired up earlier.. settled down a bit. well, at least in my defense, i should not have to petition for a game to stay like it is... to my knowledge, petitions are for a change correct? the closest example i could think of this would be say a governor thats abusing his power, you would petition to get him out of office, not for him to stay, hes already there thats obvious. also a second thought, people demanding change in general are more outspoked than people that are happy with something. out of a hundred people lets say, if ten of them are sincerily not happy about something, they will voice their opinion much more than the 90 that are. then you always get the middle ground people, that eventually give into those ten, so the ten becomes twenty lets say, then there are the people that are followers that fall in cause they see other people going in that direction, now you got 30 and so on. its a snowball effect.
would i be upset if they changed the colors to a more gloomy, depressing tone? nah probly not, to be completely honest i probly wouldnt even notice, considering we have only seen two zones of the world of sanctuary. in comparison, in act 1 of D2, Dark Wood is a rather peaceful place, theres plenty of trees, mountains, little farms scattered across the land. its not full of death and despare and completely scorched. while as you progress further into the game and get to say act 4 and step into the burning steps or river of flame it gets much creepier and darker. im just saying, we have no idea what this game holds after seeing so little, whos to say in the later levels of the game its not completely desolate.
to be clear i never said once in my post that a million people should vote, i did however say that it should be a majority, as in half plus 1. please read the statement fully before you start bashing. also to be clear, its a petition we are talking about, not a survey, yes surveys are random. petitions are aimed at a specific person voting a specific way.
As for the visual redesigns, they said that it just didn't work. What I'm assuming is that using the old system didn't allow for as much flexibility in the storytelling department. Imagine using the D2 set of lighting and colours and trying to portray something moving in the darkness. It would be harder. However, with the current colours and lights you can see the sillouette of the SiegeBreaker in the background. Combine that with a gaurd panicking about something being alive down here, and you have a palpable mood to work with. Darkness and realism don't always help the feel.
I looked up some Titanquest images, and most don't seem to have nearly the number of mobs that Diablo or it's sequal had in them. I also don't think we'll be waiting that long for this game. It has been in development for 4 years and they've said that at least all of Act1 and all of the class are playable.
In this case, yes. It was what Blizzard chose to do, and they even tried it the normal way.
"Never argue with idiots, they will bring you down to their level and beat you with experience."
"A person is smart, people are idiots."
very well thought out and put in simple terms