I think arcane buils just went bye bye, one of the perks of having a arcane build was the super strong archon, now that fire can get it there is no much use for arcane builds
Mirrorball 2x MM + fire gear + CDR + fire archon its a no brainer
I have to disagree with you. Arcane is stll viable and you can play it without touching archon. You can easly build just around desintegrate with talrasha set and it keeps working great.
Be easy on the quotes, guys ;-) Try to keep it readable for everyone.
On topic: I personally dislike the change with all my heart. Not so much the cold/lightning change - just out of "tradition" I was of the belief that Archon was and should always be a purely arcane skill. Yeah, that change is nice for people who don't like arcane as element and still want to run Archon and/or use the Vyr's set. But then, why not change Disintegrate and Arcane Torrent runes as well? Two similar spells, both fully arcane. But what I really don't get is why they make Archon fire. In fact, many classes got more fire spells (WD, for example). I thought the game was quite nicely balanced, with just slightly being in favor of the fire element, but after 2.0.5 I believe that fire will become the main spec for many many people/classes. (Note: one of the core issues is the OPness of Cindercoat and Magefist, but making more spells fire makes it even worse.)
Its not a nerf per say, it just makes Mirrorball/fire builds even more powerfull and I suspect they will then trump over arcane builds
Yeah, definitely. I'm using MM/Black Hole as active skills, toyed with both fire Meteors and both fire Hydras, but all of them felt lackluster, so I went back to Familiar. Now I can replace that with fire Archon and never look back
But then, why not change Disintegrate and Arcane Torrent runes as well? Two similar spells, both fully arcane.
Their design philosophy seems to be that element-typed runes are only possible when the base skill doesn't include an element description.
Obviously, "Arcane" Torrent remains Arcane, and just as obviously, they've themed Blizzard as a frost spell. For the Crusader, Heaven's Fury is described as a holy spell, and all runes remain holy.
Following that idea, though, Disintegrate should be able to get different elements from runes, but I guess it's too much a staple of arcane builds.
But then, why not change Disintegrate and Arcane Torrent runes as well? Two similar spells, both fully arcane.
Their design philosophy seems to be that element-typed runes are only possible when the base skill doesn't include an element description.
Obviously, "Arcane" Torrent remains Arcane, and just as obviously, they've themed Blizzard as a frost spell. For the Crusader, Heaven's Fury is described as a holy spell, and all runes remain holy.
And yet "Arcane Orb" can be Arcane, Lightning, Fire and Cold.
If they can do that, they can make Disintegrate and Arcane Torrent have a couple of different elements.
And yet "Arcane Orb" can be Arcane, Lightning, Fire and Cold.
If they can do that, they can make Disintegrate and Arcane Torrent have a couple of different elements.
Good point. It feels like they've changed their design recently to open new skills/elements combinations, but didn't want to touch the old ones that were already varied.
Be easy on the quotes, guys ;-) Try to keep it readable for everyone.
On topic: I personally dislike the change with all my heart. Not so much the cold/lightning change - just out of "tradition" I was of the belief that Archon was and should always be a purely arcane skill. Yeah, that change is nice for people who don't like arcane as element and still want to run Archon and/or use the Vyr's set. But then, why not change Disintegrate and Arcane Torrent runes as well? Two similar spells, both fully arcane. But what I really don't get is why they make Archon fire. In fact, many classes got more fire spells (WD, for example). I thought the game was quite nicely balanced, with just slightly being in favor of the fire element, but after 2.0.5 I believe that fire will become the main spec for many many people/classes. (Note: one of the core issues is the OPness of Cindercoat and Magefist, but making more spells fire makes it even worse.)
Completely and wholeheartedly agree that Archon should remain a purely arcane spell despite the grief I may get about this. However, I run a very unorthodox arcane build that is more multi-elemental so that I can incorporate Tal Rasha and Shard of Hate.
It farms T5 efficiently (average 11-12 min runs; fastest being 4 min in highly dense rifts), I just need better rolls to up my damage more for T6 (and double unity; group play I am fine though). Believe it or not, it works very well as I am able to stand in melee and blackhole/frost nova (also procing my sword and my moonlight also procing) so often that I am hardly ever hit (with Archon going off cd pretty much every elite pack). I also make it a point to collect as many trash mobs with me as I possibly can before I face an elite pack so that my Archon can benefit more. Punch > beam is better in almost all situations.
I must say, this change has disappointed me and had me thinking about going fire. I have been in search of a WoW, but I highly doubt I will ever see one (over 20k bloodshards into it now, I know that is like nothing, as I have heard of people needing to spend 380k shards; although I have no idea how you can farm that much even using 'Rift it Foward' - on that note I have NEVER even seen a Thunderfury either).
However, what I DO hope for in light of this change is that if you have Vyr's set, it incorporates ALL the elements at once so that my Shard of Hate is not completely wasted in Archon form (I use frozen storm armor in lower torments to proc my weapon in Archon form). Also getting a nice damage boost from my Tal Rasha 2 set bonus. I would even be so inclined to swap to my Tal's Ammy and take full advantage of my perfectly rolled Triumvirate if that is the case!
I hate this change really. I always think Archon is the iconic ability of arcane build. Changing this kinda indirectly makes Arcane worse by making fire even stronger. Fire is already very strong. They don't need anymore buff.
My original point is kinda lost in this thread too. My point is with Vyr set you get all effects from all runes right? Every rune gives you non damage skill except Combustion(Arcane Destruction) rune with Arcane build which is now able to take full advantage of the rune fully because it will get boosted by +ele dmg will not be able do that anymore with new change. Fire will be the only spec which unfairly get the best Archon with Vyr set because it will get all runes PLUS combustion rune will be boosted by +ele dmg. No spec get that except fire. Is there any reason to make fire stronger?
This is a NERF to arcane build if what I wrote above is how it works. 1 rune gets weaker for arcane. Honestly, I don't tink other elements need Archon. They just need their skills buffed. Archon should remain iconin arcane skill imo.
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ModeratorOn topic: I personally dislike the change with all my heart. Not so much the cold/lightning change - just out of "tradition" I was of the belief that Archon was and should always be a purely arcane skill. Yeah, that change is nice for people who don't like arcane as element and still want to run Archon and/or use the Vyr's set. But then, why not change Disintegrate and Arcane Torrent runes as well? Two similar spells, both fully arcane. But what I really don't get is why they make Archon fire. In fact, many classes got more fire spells (WD, for example). I thought the game was quite nicely balanced, with just slightly being in favor of the fire element, but after 2.0.5 I believe that fire will become the main spec for many many people/classes. (Note: one of the core issues is the OPness of Cindercoat and Magefist, but making more spells fire makes it even worse.)
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Taliesyn-2517/hero/66020932
Obviously, "Arcane" Torrent remains Arcane, and just as obviously, they've themed Blizzard as a frost spell. For the Crusader, Heaven's Fury is described as a holy spell, and all runes remain holy.
Following that idea, though, Disintegrate should be able to get different elements from runes, but I guess it's too much a staple of arcane builds.
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Taliesyn-2517/hero/66020932
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Curse PremiumIf they can do that, they can make Disintegrate and Arcane Torrent have a couple of different elements.
And may the odds be ever in your favour.
Emmo#2406
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Taliesyn-2517/hero/66020932
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Rika-1494/hero/1568507
It farms T5 efficiently (average 11-12 min runs; fastest being 4 min in highly dense rifts), I just need better rolls to up my damage more for T6 (and double unity; group play I am fine though). Believe it or not, it works very well as I am able to stand in melee and blackhole/frost nova (also procing my sword and my moonlight also procing) so often that I am hardly ever hit (with Archon going off cd pretty much every elite pack). I also make it a point to collect as many trash mobs with me as I possibly can before I face an elite pack so that my Archon can benefit more. Punch > beam is better in almost all situations.
I must say, this change has disappointed me and had me thinking about going fire. I have been in search of a WoW, but I highly doubt I will ever see one (over 20k bloodshards into it now, I know that is like nothing, as I have heard of people needing to spend 380k shards; although I have no idea how you can farm that much even using 'Rift it Foward' - on that note I have NEVER even seen a Thunderfury either).
However, what I DO hope for in light of this change is that if you have Vyr's set, it incorporates ALL the elements at once so that my Shard of Hate is not completely wasted in Archon form (I use frozen storm armor in lower torments to proc my weapon in Archon form). Also getting a nice damage boost from my Tal Rasha 2 set bonus. I would even be so inclined to swap to my Tal's Ammy and take full advantage of my perfectly rolled Triumvirate if that is the case!
Here's hoping for that.
Peace
PS: Running arcane CDR archon and for me it's still good for everyone
My original point is kinda lost in this thread too. My point is with Vyr set you get all effects from all runes right? Every rune gives you non damage skill except Combustion(Arcane Destruction) rune with Arcane build which is now able to take full advantage of the rune fully because it will get boosted by +ele dmg will not be able do that anymore with new change. Fire will be the only spec which unfairly get the best Archon with Vyr set because it will get all runes PLUS combustion rune will be boosted by +ele dmg. No spec get that except fire. Is there any reason to make fire stronger?
This is a NERF to arcane build if what I wrote above is how it works. 1 rune gets weaker for arcane. Honestly, I don't tink other elements need Archon. They just need their skills buffed. Archon should remain iconin arcane skill imo.