Still waiting for the lightning themed set. Preferably one that does not include and orb/helm in the set itself... allowing mass electrocute (Camarel+Myken's) and some other spell to be used. Personally, I love my current setup then main thing it lacks is the survivability and single target damage of fire. However, in clearing/controlling packs mass electrocute+pain enhancer, poison, and conduit gems is hard to top. (keep in mind electrocute gets double the benefit from pain enhancer's AS bonus)
Heck, I'd just be happy for an item that gives some defensive worth to storm armor.
But more in line with the topic... has anyone seen what kind of damage the 4pc does? Does it default to arcane, or is it another damage type that matches your highest +elemental damage?
Still waiting for the lightning themed set. Preferably one that does not include and orb/helm in the set itself... allowing mass electrocute (Camarel+Myken's) and some other spell to be used. Personally, I love my current setup then main thing it lacks is the survivability and single target damage of fire. However, in clearing/controlling packs mass electrocute+pain enhancer, poison, and conduit gems is hard to top. (keep in mind electrocute gets double the benefit from pain enhancer's AS bonus)
Heck, I'd just be happy for an item that gives some defensive worth to storm armor.
But more in line with the topic... has anyone seen what kind of damage the 4pc does? Does it default to arcane, or is it another damage type that matches your highest +elemental damage?
Well, since it's damage from the Slow Time, I'm assuming Arcane, since all Slow Time are Arcane, unless they change that on 2.2
And in the future, in general you should really not include buffs/debuffs in your calculations of wpn% dmg dealt other than straight unique multipliers specific to the example you're talking about. In this case that would mean ignoring any and all buffs other than the set bonus itself.
And in the future, in general you should really not include buffs/debuffs in your calculations of wpn% dmg dealt other than straight unique multipliers specific to the example you're talking about. In this case that would mean ignoring any and all buffs other than the set bonus itself.
I have to laugh at your less than specific calculations. Also, this is a discussion of potential build, not raw power.
In my case I didn't even consider Simplicity's Strength in my calculation for Mirror Ball + Magic Missile, that would ramp up even more the damage. Plus, mine isn't just about MMMM build, but also Arcane Orb, that will most likely receive an item that will ramp it up followed by this blue answer "@Jonnzz methods to support various arcane orb builds would be awesome. Half cost would be on way to do it but there are many others."
Mine does a bit of roundabout, but gives you the basis of calculation, not only of Pure Weapon Damage gain, but also with basic buffs on it. I won't waste time going in depth since more than likely the set will change when 2.2 comes out.
BDF2000 the sentence 'The toxin debuff is additive with simplicity's strength, along with force weapon, strongarm bracers, sparkflint, glass cannon and all of those type of buffs.' is not true. Skills that improve your damage(glass cannon) are additive with each other, skills that increase damage taken by enemies (toxin gem) are not counted with them. The pure dmg that you will do with conflagrate magic missiles and 2 APS to a target inside slow time bubble is 6*(230*3*2+130)+1250 = 10310, exactly the number you gave. After adding skill bonuses, ele bonuses and all the other ones, it looks like my ancient mirrorball will be quite useful ^^ It may (MAY, not sure about that) even outperform arcane orb spamming if no orb-improving item comes to existence.
BDF2000 the sentence 'The toxin debuff is additive with simplicity's strength, along with force weapon, strongarm bracers, sparkflint, glass cannon and all of those type of buffs.' is not true. Skills that improve your damage(glass cannon) are additive with each other, skills that increase damage taken by enemies (toxin gem) are not counted with them. The pure dmg that you will do with conflagrate magic missiles and 2 APS to a target inside slow time bubble is 6*(230*3*2+130)+1250 = 10310, exactly the number you gave. After adding skill bonuses, ele bonuses and all the other ones, it looks like my ancient mirrorball will be quite useful ^^ It may (MAY, not sure about that) even outperform arcane orb spamming if no orb-improving item comes to existence.
Yep, especially if you add the 50% of Simplicity's Strength. If we ignore the (potential) Arcane Damage from Bubble and go with the best MM, Conflag, then it will, just with the Gem, do 345% on Hit + 195% over 3 seconds, meaning that even if only 2 balls hit, it still does more damage than an Obliterate. On the other hand, a Furnaced Obliterate will allow us to see an ungodly huge damage XD
In the above video my set-up had initially zero buffs/debuffs, 2966 Intel, 344 min damage, and 344 max damage (min=max can be achieved with legacy gear that has +min damage on it). I used magic missile which lands for 230% weapon damage so the equation is:
2.30 * (1 + 2966/100) * (344) = 24,258
I then added a 10% buff from unruned magic weapon:
The fact that each subsequent bonus adds to previous ones within the same set of parenthesis is what I mean when I say a buff is addtive, as opposed to a strictly multiplicative bonus like Bane of the Trapped or Audacity that always increases your actual damage dealt by the exact % listed on their tooltips. And group-wide debuffs on mobs that cause them to take more damage, such as the ones I listed in my other post are definitely additive in the same group as the above tested buffs using the sense of the word I just described.
I thought you are only half-right, and it was I who was wrong, which bothers me a lot, because I checked lots of different sites etc for the dmg formula a and used 'dmg taken by enemies' as a different multiplicator in all (many) of my calculations. And I shouldn't because it actually is added to all the skill increase % bonuses.
In the above video my set-up had initially zero buffs/debuffs, 2966 Intel, 344 min damage, and 344 max damage (min=max can be achieved with legacy gear that has +min damage on it). I used magic missile which lands for 230% weapon damage so the equation is:
2.30 * (1 + 2966/100) * (344) = 24,258
I then added a 10% buff from unruned magic weapon:
The fact that each subsequent bonus adds to previous ones within the same set of parenthesis is what I mean when I say a buff is addtive, as opposed to a strictly multiplicative bonus like Bane of the Trapped or Audacity that always increases your actual damage dealt by the exact % listed on their tooltips. And group-wide debuffs on mobs that cause them to take more damage, such as the ones I listed in my other post are definitely additive in the same group as the above tested buffs using the sense of the word I just described.
Wow, talk about counter intuitive... Holy crap -.-
And it is because of that, that I don't like including buffs like that when talking about what wpn dmg% skills/abilities will deal...
A dude using no buffs or debuffs might be able to treat the 4-set as if it is dealing 1375% damage, but the same can't be said for the dude using Glass cannon, force weapon, and Elemental Exposure.
I thought you are only half-right, and it was I who was wrong, which bothers me a lot, because I checked lots of different sites etc for the dmg formula a and used 'dmg taken by enemies' as a different multiplicator in all (many) of my calculations. And I shouldn't because it actually is added to all the skill increase % bonuses.
A resource for the different buff groups can be found here:
Still waiting for the lightning themed set. Preferably one that does not include and orb/helm in the set itself... allowing mass electrocute (Camarel+Myken's) and some other spell to be used. Personally, I love my current setup then main thing it lacks is the survivability and single target damage of fire. However, in clearing/controlling packs mass electrocute+pain enhancer, poison, and conduit gems is hard to top. (keep in mind electrocute gets double the benefit from pain enhancer's AS bonus)
Heck, I'd just be happy for an item that gives some defensive worth to storm armor.
But more in line with the topic... has anyone seen what kind of damage the 4pc does? Does it default to arcane, or is it another damage type that matches your highest +elemental damage?
Well, since it's damage from the Slow Time, I'm assuming Arcane, since all Slow Time are Arcane, unless they change that on 2.2
matches your highest +elemental damage most likely
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Those Who Do Not Know True Pain Cannot Possibly Understand True Peace...
Mammoth hydra deals ~3300% dmg/sec per hydra at the 3.06 pet aps breakpoint (4400%/sec at the next one).
Two hydras together deal 6600%dmg/sec with sparker
With mirrorball you deal 4140% per attack with the 6-set, if you're at attack speeds to unlock those hydra breakpoints, that's over 2 APS, so ~8000% wpn dmg/sec
So you have three major sources of damage:
~6600% wpn dmg/sec as Fire from Mammoth
~8000%/sec from magic missile of an as of yet chosen element
~1250%/sec of a fixed element, lets say arcane or just anything but fire.
Are you really gonna let such a small fraction of your damage determine the effect of the rune you choose on your main damage dealer? No you're not. You're gonna choose the least sucky rune and the element that has the best legendary item support. Which is by far Fire with magic missile mirrorball.
Now maybe if you pick any of the other shitty spells listed on the 6-set they'll be dealing damage so low that you need to lean on the 4-set for your damage, but not true with MM-Conflag.
Or hell, just take ANY skill listed on the set, look at its tooltip damage, multiply it by 6, and see how much larger it is than 1250%. Whether or not a skill is AoE, whether an element has better supporting legendary gear, is worlds more important than extra (1250% * 0.6) = 750% wpndmg/sec
Mammoth hydra deals ~3300% dmg/sec per hydra at the 3.06 pet aps breakpoint (4400%/sec at the next one).
Two hydras together deal 6600%dmg/sec with sparker
With mirrorball you deal 4140% per attack with the 6-set, if you're at attack speeds to unlock those hydra breakpoints, that's over 2 APS, so ~8000% wpn dmg/sec
So you have three major sources of damage:
~6600% wpn dmg/sec as Fire from Mammoth
~8000%/sec from magic missile of an as of yet chosen element
~1250%/sec of a fixed element, lets say arcane or just anything but fire.
Are you really gonna let such a small fraction of your damage determine the effect of the rune you choose on your main damage dealer? No you're not. You're gonna choose the least sucky rune and the element that has the best legendary item support. Which is by far Fire with magic missile mirrorball.
Now maybe if you pick any of the other shitty spells listed on the 6-set they'll be dealing damage so low that you need to lean on the 4-set for your damage, but not true with MM-Conflag.
You wouldn't use Hydra in the first place, Arcane Orb would out power Hydra, since you wouldn't opt for Tasker. The Average Wizard has usually only 1.5 AS, but lots of damage. Having a lot of Attack Speed for a MM Build is pointless also, since higher GR you can't stand still to use all that AS.
You wouldn't use Hydra in the first place, Arcane Orb would out power Hydra, since you wouldn't opt for Tasker. The Average Wizard has usually only 1.5 AS, but lots of damage. Having a lot of Attack Speed for a MM Build is pointless also, since higher GR you can't stand still to use all that AS.
Unless fear docs have been removed from the game, you can most certainly stand still.
And please tell me why being able to attack faster when you do have a chance to attack is any worse than hitting harder and more slowly when your attacks cost no resource.
Still waiting for the lightning themed set. Preferably one that does not include and orb/helm in the set itself... allowing mass electrocute (Camarel+Myken's) and some other spell to be used. Personally, I love my current setup then main thing it lacks is the survivability and single target damage of fire. However, in clearing/controlling packs mass electrocute+pain enhancer, poison, and conduit gems is hard to top. (keep in mind electrocute gets double the benefit from pain enhancer's AS bonus)
Heck, I'd just be happy for an item that gives some defensive worth to storm armor.
But more in line with the topic... has anyone seen what kind of damage the 4pc does? Does it default to arcane, or is it another damage type that matches your highest +elemental damage?
Well, since it's damage from the Slow Time, I'm assuming Arcane, since all Slow Time are Arcane, unless they change that on 2.2
Good question, but I doubt it will be that bad. The same can be said about most ranged attacks tbh.
That butchery of numbers on the first page in this thread made me feel hollow inside.
If anyone is curious I did some napkin math over in this thread at the kind of numbers you can expect to see with the set bonus:
http://www.diablofans.com/forums/diablo-iii-class-forums/wizard-the-ancient-repositories/105605-delseres-magnum-opus-multiple-slow-time-bubbles?page=2#c25
And in the future, in general you should really not include buffs/debuffs in your calculations of wpn% dmg dealt other than straight unique multipliers specific to the example you're talking about. In this case that would mean ignoring any and all buffs other than the set bonus itself.
I have to laugh at your less than specific calculations. Also, this is a discussion of potential build, not raw power.
In my case I didn't even consider Simplicity's Strength in my calculation for Mirror Ball + Magic Missile, that would ramp up even more the damage. Plus, mine isn't just about MMMM build, but also Arcane Orb, that will most likely receive an item that will ramp it up followed by this blue answer "@Jonnzz methods to support various arcane orb builds would be awesome. Half cost would be on way to do it but there are many others."
Mine does a bit of roundabout, but gives you the basis of calculation, not only of Pure Weapon Damage gain, but also with basic buffs on it. I won't waste time going in depth since more than likely the set will change when 2.2 comes out.
BDF2000 the sentence 'The toxin debuff is additive with simplicity's strength, along with force weapon, strongarm bracers, sparkflint, glass cannon and all of those type of buffs.' is not true. Skills that improve your damage(glass cannon) are additive with each other, skills that increase damage taken by enemies (toxin gem) are not counted with them. The pure dmg that you will do with conflagrate magic missiles and 2 APS to a target inside slow time bubble is 6*(230*3*2+130)+1250 = 10310, exactly the number you gave. After adding skill bonuses, ele bonuses and all the other ones, it looks like my ancient mirrorball will be quite useful ^^ It may (MAY, not sure about that) even outperform arcane orb spamming if no orb-improving item comes to existence.
Yep, especially if you add the 50% of Simplicity's Strength. If we ignore the (potential) Arcane Damage from Bubble and go with the best MM, Conflag, then it will, just with the Gem, do 345% on Hit + 195% over 3 seconds, meaning that even if only 2 balls hit, it still does more damage than an Obliterate. On the other hand, a Furnaced Obliterate will allow us to see an ungodly huge damage XD
Perhaps we're using the word additive to mean different things, if that is the case then disregard this video, if not see below:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3kd330FGDI
In the above video my set-up had initially zero buffs/debuffs, 2966 Intel, 344 min damage, and 344 max damage (min=max can be achieved with legacy gear that has +min damage on it). I used magic missile which lands for 230% weapon damage so the equation is:
I then added a 10% buff from unruned magic weapon:
I then added 10% magic missile bonus from a craft belt with zero-intel on it.
I then socketed a Simplicity's Strength Gem with 26.5% dmg bonus
I then cast Slow Time: Time Warp for another 10% dmg bonus
The fact that each subsequent bonus adds to previous ones within the same set of parenthesis is what I mean when I say a buff is addtive, as opposed to a strictly multiplicative bonus like Bane of the Trapped or Audacity that always increases your actual damage dealt by the exact % listed on their tooltips. And group-wide debuffs on mobs that cause them to take more damage, such as the ones I listed in my other post are definitely additive in the same group as the above tested buffs using the sense of the word I just described.
I thought you are only half-right, and it was I who was wrong, which bothers me a lot, because I checked lots of different sites etc for the dmg formula a and used 'dmg taken by enemies' as a different multiplicator in all (many) of my calculations. And I shouldn't because it actually is added to all the skill increase % bonuses.
I want that so I can play my Mirrorball!
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/pantherdane-1591/hero/39933784
Wow, talk about counter intuitive... Holy crap -.-
And it is because of that, that I don't like including buffs like that when talking about what wpn dmg% skills/abilities will deal...
A dude using no buffs or debuffs might be able to treat the 4-set as if it is dealing 1375% damage, but the same can't be said for the dude using Glass cannon, force weapon, and Elemental Exposure.
A resource for the different buff groups can be found here:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/14058607023
And an older one can be found here (though it is now wrong about arcane dynamo, that is now its own multiplier):
https://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/8770117237#3
matches your highest +elemental damage most likely
Those Who Do Not Know True Pain Cannot Possibly Understand True Peace...
The 4-set doesn't do enough damage on its own to have any impact on what element we choose.
1250% dmg a sec is nothing to be skipped, especially if you can get about 60% of that element damage, that will in turn make it 2000% a sec.
Mammoth hydra deals ~3300% dmg/sec per hydra at the 3.06 pet aps breakpoint (4400%/sec at the next one).
Two hydras together deal 6600%dmg/sec with sparker
With mirrorball you deal 4140% per attack with the 6-set, if you're at attack speeds to unlock those hydra breakpoints, that's over 2 APS, so ~8000% wpn dmg/sec
So you have three major sources of damage:
~6600% wpn dmg/sec as Fire from Mammoth
~8000%/sec from magic missile of an as of yet chosen element
~1250%/sec of a fixed element, lets say arcane or just anything but fire.
Are you really gonna let such a small fraction of your damage determine the effect of the rune you choose on your main damage dealer? No you're not. You're gonna choose the least sucky rune and the element that has the best legendary item support. Which is by far Fire with magic missile mirrorball.
Now maybe if you pick any of the other shitty spells listed on the 6-set they'll be dealing damage so low that you need to lean on the 4-set for your damage, but not true with MM-Conflag.
Or hell, just take ANY skill listed on the set, look at its tooltip damage, multiply it by 6, and see how much larger it is than 1250%. Whether or not a skill is AoE, whether an element has better supporting legendary gear, is worlds more important than extra (1250% * 0.6) = 750% wpndmg/sec
All skill% buffs are additive in the same group as I showed in m example except for hydra%, which is strictly multiplicative.
You wouldn't use Hydra in the first place, Arcane Orb would out power Hydra, since you wouldn't opt for Tasker. The Average Wizard has usually only 1.5 AS, but lots of damage. Having a lot of Attack Speed for a MM Build is pointless also, since higher GR you can't stand still to use all that AS.
Unless fear docs have been removed from the game, you can most certainly stand still.
And please tell me why being able to attack faster when you do have a chance to attack is any worse than hitting harder and more slowly when your attacks cost no resource.