This is going to be a long post but I wanted to go into a bit of detail on a way of playing with Vision Quest that doesn’t feel clunky. TLDR: Dire Bats/Vision Quest Build with 5 cooldown spells, crit is good, weapon dmg is much more important than attack speed/dps. Stop reading now if you don’t care about the details. You’ve been warned!
I rolled with the dart build. It served me very well and got me through Act II. But Act III was a chore—hordes upon hordes of enemies, but my main source of dmg hits one mob at a time! Worse, certain affixes were a nightmare: illusionist (shudder), invulnerable minions, and worst of all, plagued…and all I ever seemed to be getting was plagued.
I’d had enough. Then Blizzard mentioned they may be nerfing attack speed, so instead of diving full force into an attack speed build, I decided to go another route. While I believe my build is by no means novel, I think I may have some explanations behind the flavor of this build to explain why it can (and does) work well.
Vision Quest seemed like really clunky design to me when I used it during Hell. I loved the ability to spam bats, but I just kept using abilities solely to trigger the 300% mana regen, which I knew would be a huge problem in inferno (which it was). Here’s the “secret”: Vision Quest is meant to be used with FIVE cooldown spells, not four. This way, you can always have Spirit Walk in case of emergency (or whichever spell you’re saving if the situation isn’t dangerous, i.e., Fetishes) or when you run out of mana (with rune Spirit Walk restores 30% of mana). Basically here’s how it works: Cast Fetishes, then Grasp of the Dead just in front of the mobs (or on them if they have very little hp). Spirit Walk, run in and get stacks with Soul Harvest, then run back out and spam bats.
With elites you can do this: wait until the elite is just to the edge of your grasp about to get free, then run through them with Spirit Walk, Soul Harvest on them, and keep going. Now those elites have to go all the way through the grasp of the dead zone again. (Special Note: With Fast affix mobs, you usually just need to keep running in one direction so you will not always have the benefit of Soul Harvest—having at least 12% movement speed is crucial in late inferno anyway.)
Important stats:
Main points:
1) Yes. You can have vision quest and PtV in the same build. This requires 2 pieces of mana regen gear to work well (10 or more mana per second per piece), and three is almost overkill but very very nice (though I find ceremonial daggers do not have the base dmg I need for this build, even the ones selling for 20 million—so my weapon is a 1H mace.) Calling PtV a “dps loss” is reductive and does not take into account builds like this where I can spam bats without stopping all the way until Spirit Walk is off CD which gives back 30% mana.
2) When using bats, ATTACK SPEED IS NOT THAT IMPORTANT. The most important number for a bats build is how much your bats hit for, and the way you can figure that out is the following: Take your DPS number from your character sheet and divide it by your ATTACK SPEED. This gives your “damage”—and dire bats do 220% weapon dmg to everything in a line for 40 yards. So take that “damage” number and multiply it by 2.2 to figure out the average hit of a bat.
3) There is a Voodoo Mask affix which reduces the base mana cost of Dire Bats by 5-11 mana. This is amazing, but if your helm has both mana regen AND +mana, it might be better than one that only reduces the cost of Dire Bats. Edit: The best combination is +mana regen and reduce cost of dire bats.
4) Wallers and mortar enemies are much easier with this build, especially in Act III, as you don’t need line of site to hit with bats. Use stairwells creatively and you can shoot bats at angles where the enemies cannot hit you with their projectiles. Elite Soul Lashers are still not possible with this build--can anyone kill them? Jesus. Edit: Soul Lashers are now just like any other mob and easily killable with this build.
5) I HATE needing to have Sprit Vessel, but it’s great for more than just the free death—it reduces the CD on Spirit Walk, which increases your mana efficiency. I eventually want to spec into Blood Ritual instead of Spirit Vessel, once the mobs hit less hard. This will make bats spammable for 16 full seconds with my current stats (I can spam them for 12 seconds now after casting everything else, and by then Spirit Walk is off CD anyway—it would just make bosses faster).
6) “Mana bleed” should be something all Witch Doctors think about. I made a spread sheet to help me figure out how much mana I lose per second spamming my main dmg spell while considering my passive and active regen, and I’d be willing to share it if people actually want to use it lol.
7) This build has one very significant weakness: Reflects dmg elites in Act III+ (including Whimseyshire). Just ONE bat going through 4 elites with this build hits me for more than 4k dmg. This is why I have the healing rune on Hex (I would LOVE to use Jinx—it’s much much better for all other encounters) and why I have the Siphon rune on Soul Harvest. Edit: I now use Jinx on Hex 100% of the time, but this is probably gear-dependent. Start with Hedge if they give you trouble.
8) Speaking of Soul Harvest, I see it as optional. I really need it for the heal on Reflects Dmg elites and the extra dmg is just awesome, but if you have enough hp regen per second you may find another spell (with a CD of course!) may serve you better.
9) Hex is just OP. Incredible spell. It will save you even more than spirit walk, and it works on many bosses. Mandatory IMO.
10) When you cast them, you aren’t “wasting” fetishes—you’ll always have them up for an elite fight, just wait and see. And you can use BBV instead, but I find that in solo play BBV is frustrating because it remains in one place. In Act IV I often swap in Zombie Wall, which is great. Fetish Ambush is also a great thing to use in earlier acts because it will one-shot many elites if it crits.
11) This build works for five stack Siegebreaker runs including the boss, all the way through Azmodan, and Whimseyshire. Act I and II are completely faceroll—I can clear the cemetery to get five stacks then do Whimseyshire and loot the whole thing (after changing into MF gear) in under 30 minutes. Act II feels like Act I used to feel (not completely faceroll, but not hard). Siegebreaker 5 stack runs can take anywhere from 20 minutes to 40 minutes, depending on whether or not I get a Herald of Pestilence elite pack or a reflects dmg elite—they require more time for me. Usually from Bridge of Korsik to the end of the act takes 1 hour- 1 hour and 20 minutes (3 bosses, at least 12 elite packs).
Gearing
1) You want intellect, +chance to crit, +crit dmg, then whatever survival stats you prefer (vit, all resist, armor, life on hit, life per sec, etc.). Shoot for an attack speed of 1.5-1.6 TOTAL (so you can use a 1.3 weapon with a 15% attack speed piece). That will work for 2 mana regen pieces—you’ll need 3 mana regen pieces if you’re going into the realm of 1.7+ which probably means nerfing your “damage” by getting a lower base dmg ceremonial knife. You’ll want at least 30k hp to take a spear or two in Act III.
2) You can get +crit chance over 50% with the proper gear and using the Scoundrel follower (+3% crit chance). You can get crit dmg up over 380%, which requires getting a weapon with lots of crit already plus a socket for a 100% crit dmg gem, which you’ll have one day in the future. At this writing my +crit chance is up to 25% and crit dmg is 190%--my bats hit for 66k average, with 175k crits. I only have +crit chance on my off-hand (8%), my bracers (3%), and my gloves (6%). Now I want a helm (6% crit max), two rings (4.5 crit max each), and a good amulet with crit (8.5% max), but these are going to be quite expensive as I also want +crit dmg on them too! Edit: Got 'em! ;-) The most expensive by far was the amulet--30 million, but it has lots of intellect, 60% crit dmg, 7.5% crit chance, 111 vitality, and a huge amount of life on kill.
3) Searching for a one-hander is less depressing than when looking for a darts build because they are often cheaper. Look for a high minimum damage (over 400 is good, over 500 is better) and a high maximum damage (over 900 is good, over 1000 is better) with an attack speed of around 1.2.-1.4 (you can go lower if you have an attack speed piece—remember you can safely go up to 1.6 attack speed with this kind of build, assuming you have two mana regen pieces—and plus mana is also great!).
4) For offhand, you want 100-400 (prob more like 90-340, ones closer to 100-400 are too expensive but you can find one in the 90-340 range for very low prices you just have to look through ALL of them) and make sure it has mana regen. Plus mana is also great. And don’t forget the offhand can have 8.5% crit!
Hope this gives you some ideas. I know it’s nothing new, but I hadn’t read the “whys” behind some of these decisions, and I thought it might help some people out.
This build works great been using it for farming Siegebreaker for a few weeks. Really the only thing the build requires (IMO) is a decent one handed weapon. Even then you can totally get by with a slow two hander, but once you hit Act 3 range mobs start becoming a large headache.
If possible I recommend people moving into A2-A3 inferno with this build have at least a 850 DPS 1 hander with as much BASE (not with a tacked on IAS modifier) speed as possible. A one-handed sword, dagger or ceremonial dagger with a socket for a big emerald (if possible) paired with a snake offhand with as high damage as you can find. The highest damage offhands I have found have been the snakes with ~100 min dmg and ~375-390 max damage. The offhands are really cheap and VERY good. You can find really good blue offhands with 100-385dmg with 8% crit or INT for less then 100K easily.
EDIT:
Regarding reflect damage bosses they can be easily countered by kiting to a Health Fountain. Between kiting, pots, hex heal and a heal fountain they are fairly simple to take down. You just have to take them slower then normal. Act 3 Always seems to have at least 2 fountains. One to the top and one to the bottom of the map.
If possible I recommend people moving into A2-A3 inferno with this build have at least a 850 DPS 1 hander with as much BASE (not with a tacked on IAS modifier) speed as possible.
A one-handed sword, dagger or ceremonial dagger with a socket for a big emerald (if possible) paired with a snake offhand with as high damage as you can find. The highest damage offhands I have found have been the snakes with ~100 min dmg and ~375-390 max damage. The offhands are really cheap and VERY good. You can find really good blue offhands with 100-385dmg with 8% crit or INT for less then 100K easily.
EDIT:
Regarding reflect damage bosses they can be easily countered by kiting to a Health Fountain. Between kiting, pots, hex heal and a heal fountain they are fairly simple to take down. You just have to take them slower then normal. Act 3 Always seems to have at least 2 fountains. One to the top and one to the bottom of the map.
Ha true about a health fountain...but there are none in Whimseyshire! I did figure out some new kiting techniques there that made it so I can safely pick up the muffins they drop as you dmg them.
In my original post I did say the things you recommend about weapons--almost to the letter! That's good info about the mojos--I'd recommend mana regen before int for this build, but the importance of a good high dmg one hander cannot be overstated! Cheers!
Gonna try this tonight, although probably switching Grasp for a longer cooldown like BBV or confuse.
I just don't understand the love for Grasp of the Dead. Sure it trivializes white melee mobs, but they're not that much of a problem to begin with. The times I've used it elite / champion packs just blitz through the area, maybe buying me 1 second at most, where Horrify can send a mob back to the edge of the screen. Did I just use it on fast mobs and give up on it too easily?
What's your gamer tag? (If you don't mind sharing) I'd like to chat a bit with you more on this build and a few of the things you're doing with your Witch Doctor?
Gonna try this tonight, although probably switching Grasp for a longer cooldown like BBV or confuse.
I just don't understand the love for Grasp of the Dead. Sure it trivializes white melee mobs, but they're not that much of a problem to begin with. The times I've used it elite / champion packs just blitz through the area, maybe buying me 1 second at most, where Horrify can send a mob back to the edge of the screen. Did I just use it on fast mobs and give up on it too easily?
This is somewhat true when used in isolation--until you realize how powerful it is in conjunction with Hex. ALWAYS place the whole region of Grasp completely in front of the elite pack so they have to go through the whole thing. One mob will prob get to you, especially if it has a fast affix, but it will be immediately hexed. Also, with a 5 stack, never underestimate how much dmg it does! Grasp is what makes Whimseyshire do-able.
What's your gamer tag? (If you don't mind sharing) I'd like to chat a bit with you more on this build and a few of the things you're doing with your Witch Doctor?
Yo I'm a bit cagey about sharing my tag in a forum--put yours up and I'll add you tonight and send you a msg.
switched over to a ceremonial knife / mojo with 10 regen a piece and this build took me places.
I had never put much thought into vision quest regen being % based, I always just kind of thought, "if VQ is active I get full mana," but it wasn't really true. Regen is at 120 now with VQ up and it's finally clicking - no need for a primary. With a 5 stack of SH my bats were critting for over 200K, and this is with a 750 1H / 200 some max offhand.
The rest of my crit gear is quite good however. It's funny with all the people migrating away from IAS and trying new builds, the crit necklace I picked up weeks ago for about 700K is selling around 20 mil.
I cant agree with this build. After reading your post and watching the video i most say that i think a Splinter build is stronger.
My WD is on HC and currently in act3, to compare with your hero mine got alot more ehp and less dmg. The reason why I dont like this build is that it requires u to get mana reg items and need to have 4 spells on cd for the build to work correctly.
If u instead stick with crit-hit and dmg while using splinters the dmg is still pretty sick. I can get like 50k-60k crits with each hit and u fire away 3 of those every attack. The way I fixed the problem with horde/inv mobs is geting the rune fetisch ambush (250 wepdmg for each fetish u spawn). If u are lucky that nasty thing can almost 1-shot an elite pack in act1 (having ca 35k dps on my wd).
Cant rly dig deeper and explain my thoughts more atm cause im at work but this is just short why i think the splinter build is superior.
Let me know how Act III works all the way through. I"ll post a video of my build in Act III and see how you think it compares to yours. The drawback of my build compared to a darts build is that darts are superior for boss kills--but for me, dire bats make everything else go so fast that it's worth slower kills on bosses to use it for elites/champions/white mobs.
What you say about VQ and four CD's is definitely true if you only have four CD spells, but as I explain, when you use FIVE CD spells you never, ever have to worry about that clutch ability being on CD when you need it (aka, Spirit Walk). But it's a bit of a juggle and it definitely takes some getting used to. Once you do, it's a very, very powerful build.
Just some thoughts about the support skills in a bats build...
I think you're better off getting 30 regen from gear once you can afford it and dropping Honored Guest for Jaunt. You need ~50 regen with a 1.5 weapon to use it with PtV I think.
Also, once you feel comfortable it's better to get ZW as your 5th ability I think. Having 5 short cds requires more work definitely, but it's the better build overall compared to getting Big Bad Voodoo or Fetish Army. I do wonder if Ghost Trance would be good vs reflect packs though. But honestly if you can just get a good LoH amulet you don't need to get Hedge Magic or Ghost Trance as much, though Hedge Magic is kind of nice and you don't really need the extra 10% from Jinx. Mass Confusion can also be really good as your 5th ability, possibly better than ZW actually if you don't mind running in to use it.
I still question if SH is really the way to go vs getting Horrify, too. If you don't need the heal as much, is it really worth having to run in every 30 sec to get like 2-3 stacks a lot of the time? Not so sure.
Where you wouldn't have to be close to enemies ever and would use Horrify for Vortex, but still get the run speed when trying to keep VQ up. And then use Hex for Teleporters with both GotD and ZW to slow enemies down and SW for emergencies.
Just some thoughts about the support skills in a bats build...
I think you're better off getting 30 regen from gear once you can afford it and dropping Honored Guest for Jaunt. You need ~50 regen with a 1.5 weapon to use it with PtV I think.
Also, once you feel comfortable it's better to get ZW as your 5th ability I think. Having 5 short cds requires more work definitely, but it's the better build overall compared to getting Big Bad Voodoo or Fetish Army. I do wonder if Ghost Trance would be good vs reflect packs though. But honestly if you can just get a good LoH amulet you don't need to get Hedge Magic or Ghost Trance as much, though Hedge Magic is kind of nice and you don't really need the extra 10% from Jinx. Mass Confusion can also be really good as your 5th ability, possibly better than ZW actually if you don't mind running in to use it.
I still question if SH is really the way to go vs getting Horrify, too. If you don't need the heal as much, is it really worth having to run in every 30 sec to get like 2-3 stacks a lot of the time? Not so sure.
Where you wouldn't have to be close to enemies ever and would use Horrify for Vortex, but still get the run speed when trying to keep VQ up. And then use Hex for Teleporters with both GotD and ZW to slow enemies down and SW for emergencies.
I appreciate your thoughts and some of these things I actually already do! For example, in acts I and II I always run with Zombie Wall - Pile On instead of Fetishes--it can one shot many act I elites and take most Act II elites down to under 10% hp (it does 1 million-1.5 million dmg when it crits). I never claimed this build was viable for PvP and I would definitely use Wall or something else other than Fetishes for PvP.
This is an old post also--if you watch my videos at youtube (user name Yorricman) you'll see that I use Jinx now instead of Hedge Magic on Hex. I like Soul Harvest too much for the heal and for the ABSURD damage boost it gives me--remember, I have prioritized crit and crit dmg even over intellect and I only have like 1300 intellect natively--so the Soul Harvest makes an enormous difference (my dps on the character sheet goes from 50k to over 75k with a 5 stack...)
As for the LoH amulet, I spent 30 million on a 8% crit chance/50% crit dmg/100 intellect/soceted/500 life per kill amulet--I'm not going to be in the market for another one in a while. This makes reflects damage mobs with illusionist VERY easy because so many die over and over that you stay healed up fine. Do I wish it was life on hit? Yes...but then it would have been 100 million gold! ;-)
I do like this build alot, however I think you need wall of zombies to even consider it as a multiplayer build.
I imagine I would make A LOT of changes for a PvP situation--in fact, I doubt even Dire Bats will be viable for that because they move too slowly. But we'll see--if your opponent has poor defenses, you can spirit walk-->spam bats in their face--GG insta death.
The one tough confrontation for this build happens to be barrels.
LOL good one.
Actually, the heads that drop off those zombies in Act I are also very annoying because the bats go right over them--I have to kill them with grasp (or just ignore them lol).
First of all, great guide Yorricman! I've been using VQ/bears and have been cruising through act 1, also act 2 started working for me when getting better gear. I started getting trouble with some elite packs in act 3 though, and decided to try your build out, as it seemed key to get some distance between yourself and certain mobs. Therefor I spent pretty much all my cash on yesterday on items for this build, and am quite pleased with the result.
The elite packs in act 3 felt alot more manageable, and I'm not even close in terms of gear, to what this build can accomplish (currently 25% crit, 150% more crit dmg).
However last night i ran into them big fast mobs in the fortified bunker which basicly 1-2 hits me to death and has like 500% walking speed. I have alot to learn about how to make this build work for me perfectly, but this is step 1 for me. I tried making them stuck in terrain, but often i cant hit them with dire bats from there. How do you handle these mobs? Didn't see them in any of your videos, maybe i missed it.
Help is greatly appreciated
Fast is a problem for sure, and dire bats is certainly weaker in the first part of Act III because of LoS issues. The most effective way to kill fast mobs is to:
(1) 12% movement speed is not good enough in Act III against fast affix--it's worth pushing that up to 18%-19% (this may require buying some pants JUST for fast affix mobs).
(2) Try and split up the group so you're only taking dmg from one elite instead of 3-4....your hex will keep it down most of the time and you can burn it down (this is where jinx shines)
(3) Just get more dps. Act III requires a LOT of dps to "feel right". It takes a long time to get to that threshold--you definitely need 30k+ dps, and much more is desirable so you can get those packs down fast before they get to you.
You're right about keeping certain mobs at a distance. Heralds of Pestalence are prime examples, but those awful birds in Act III and the Fire Mages--keep them at max distance from your bats and just spam until they are dead. Basically anything with its own projectile (spear throwers, fireball throwers). All Resist also makes a HUGE difference in Act III after 1.0.3. I was a glass cannon before 1.0.3 and could only take 1-2 spears before I died or triggered spirit vessel. Now I can take 6-8--this make a huge difference in your ability to kind of face tank some white mobs and kill them before they have a chance to kill you (life leech/life on hit is good for this--even a little bit makes a big difference).
That said, I I won't lie--there are some elites that are just close to impossible not to die on a few times with this build--I assume tanking them is the only way to survive without dying solo. These include:
(1) Phase Beasts with teleport and illusionist (act III)
(2) Corruptors with Fast or Teleport (act IV)
If you can give me the name of the mobs you're having trouble with I will hunt them down and put up a video for you showing my strategy for killing them. Hope it helps.
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EDIT: HERE'S VIDEOS FROM ANOTHER POST: http://www.diablofan...-cds-an-update/
I rolled with the dart build. It served me very well and got me through Act II. But Act III was a chore—hordes upon hordes of enemies, but my main source of dmg hits one mob at a time! Worse, certain affixes were a nightmare: illusionist (shudder), invulnerable minions, and worst of all, plagued…and all I ever seemed to be getting was plagued.
I’d had enough. Then Blizzard mentioned they may be nerfing attack speed, so instead of diving full force into an attack speed build, I decided to go another route. While I believe my build is by no means novel, I think I may have some explanations behind the flavor of this build to explain why it can (and does) work well.
First off, the build:
http://us.battle.net...dURP!UVW!aaZZab
Vision Quest seemed like really clunky design to me when I used it during Hell. I loved the ability to spam bats, but I just kept using abilities solely to trigger the 300% mana regen, which I knew would be a huge problem in inferno (which it was). Here’s the “secret”: Vision Quest is meant to be used with FIVE cooldown spells, not four. This way, you can always have Spirit Walk in case of emergency (or whichever spell you’re saving if the situation isn’t dangerous, i.e., Fetishes) or when you run out of mana (with rune Spirit Walk restores 30% of mana). Basically here’s how it works: Cast Fetishes, then Grasp of the Dead just in front of the mobs (or on them if they have very little hp). Spirit Walk, run in and get stacks with Soul Harvest, then run back out and spam bats.
With elites you can do this: wait until the elite is just to the edge of your grasp about to get free, then run through them with Spirit Walk, Soul Harvest on them, and keep going. Now those elites have to go all the way through the grasp of the dead zone again. (Special Note: With Fast affix mobs, you usually just need to keep running in one direction so you will not always have the benefit of Soul Harvest—having at least 12% movement speed is crucial in late inferno anyway.)
Important stats:
Main points:
1) Yes. You can have vision quest and PtV in the same build. This requires 2 pieces of mana regen gear to work well (10 or more mana per second per piece), and three is almost overkill but very very nice (though I find ceremonial daggers do not have the base dmg I need for this build, even the ones selling for 20 million—so my weapon is a 1H mace.) Calling PtV a “dps loss” is reductive and does not take into account builds like this where I can spam bats without stopping all the way until Spirit Walk is off CD which gives back 30% mana.
2) When using bats, ATTACK SPEED IS NOT THAT IMPORTANT. The most important number for a bats build is how much your bats hit for, and the way you can figure that out is the following: Take your DPS number from your character sheet and divide it by your ATTACK SPEED. This gives your “damage”—and dire bats do 220% weapon dmg to everything in a line for 40 yards. So take that “damage” number and multiply it by 2.2 to figure out the average hit of a bat.
3) There is a Voodoo Mask affix which reduces the base mana cost of Dire Bats by 5-11 mana. This is amazing, but if your helm has both mana regen AND +mana, it might be better than one that only reduces the cost of Dire Bats. Edit: The best combination is +mana regen and reduce cost of dire bats.
4) Wallers and mortar enemies are much easier with this build, especially in Act III, as you don’t need line of site to hit with bats. Use stairwells creatively and you can shoot bats at angles where the enemies cannot hit you with their projectiles.
Elite Soul Lashers are still not possible with this build--can anyone kill them? Jesus.Edit: Soul Lashers are now just like any other mob and easily killable with this build.5) I HATE needing to have Sprit Vessel, but it’s great for more than just the free death—it reduces the CD on Spirit Walk, which increases your mana efficiency. I eventually want to spec into Blood Ritual instead of Spirit Vessel, once the mobs hit less hard. This will make bats spammable for 16 full seconds with my current stats (I can spam them for 12 seconds now after casting everything else, and by then Spirit Walk is off CD anyway—it would just make bosses faster).
6) “Mana bleed” should be something all Witch Doctors think about. I made a spread sheet to help me figure out how much mana I lose per second spamming my main dmg spell while considering my passive and active regen, and I’d be willing to share it if people actually want to use it lol.
7) This build has one very significant weakness: Reflects dmg elites in Act III+ (including Whimseyshire). Just ONE bat going through 4 elites with this build hits me for more than 4k dmg. This is why
I have the healing rune on Hex (I would LOVE to use Jinx—it’s much much better for all other encounters) and whyI have the Siphon rune on Soul Harvest. Edit: I now use Jinx on Hex 100% of the time, but this is probably gear-dependent. Start with Hedge if they give you trouble.8) Speaking of Soul Harvest, I see it as optional. I really need it for the heal on Reflects Dmg elites and the extra dmg is just awesome, but if you have enough hp regen per second you may find another spell (with a CD of course!) may serve you better.
9) Hex is just OP. Incredible spell. It will save you even more than spirit walk, and it works on many bosses. Mandatory IMO.
10) When you cast them, you aren’t “wasting” fetishes—you’ll always have them up for an elite fight, just wait and see. And you can use BBV instead, but I find that in solo play BBV is frustrating because it remains in one place. In Act IV I often swap in Zombie Wall, which is great. Fetish Ambush is also a great thing to use in earlier acts because it will one-shot many elites if it crits.
11) This build works for five stack Siegebreaker runs including the boss, all the way through Azmodan, and Whimseyshire. Act I and II are completely faceroll—I can clear the cemetery to get five stacks then do Whimseyshire and loot the whole thing (after changing into MF gear) in under 30 minutes. Act II feels like Act I used to feel (not completely faceroll, but not hard). Siegebreaker 5 stack runs can take anywhere from 20 minutes to 40 minutes, depending on whether or not I get a Herald of Pestilence elite pack or a reflects dmg elite—they require more time for me. Usually from Bridge of Korsik to the end of the act takes 1 hour- 1 hour and 20 minutes (3 bosses, at least 12 elite packs).
Gearing
1) You want intellect, +chance to crit, +crit dmg, then whatever survival stats you prefer (vit, all resist, armor, life on hit, life per sec, etc.). Shoot for an attack speed of 1.5-1.6 TOTAL (so you can use a 1.3 weapon with a 15% attack speed piece). That will work for 2 mana regen pieces—you’ll need 3 mana regen pieces if you’re going into the realm of 1.7+ which probably means nerfing your “damage” by getting a lower base dmg ceremonial knife. You’ll want at least 30k hp to take a spear or two in Act III.
2) You can get +crit chance over 50% with the proper gear and using the Scoundrel follower (+3% crit chance). You can get crit dmg up over 380%, which requires getting a weapon with lots of crit already plus a socket for a 100% crit dmg gem, which you’ll have one day in the future. At this writing my +crit chance is up to 25% and crit dmg is 190%--my bats hit for 66k average, with 175k crits. I only have +crit chance on my off-hand (8%), my bracers (3%), and my gloves (6%).
Now I want a helm (6% crit max), two rings (4.5 crit max each), and a good amulet with crit (8.5% max), but these are going to be quite expensive as I also want +crit dmg on them too!Edit: Got 'em! ;-) The most expensive by far was the amulet--30 million, but it has lots of intellect, 60% crit dmg, 7.5% crit chance, 111 vitality, and a huge amount of life on kill.3) Searching for a one-hander is less depressing than when looking for a darts build because they are often cheaper. Look for a high minimum damage (over 400 is good, over 500 is better) and a high maximum damage (over 900 is good, over 1000 is better) with an attack speed of around 1.2.-1.4 (you can go lower if you have an attack speed piece—remember you can safely go up to 1.6 attack speed with this kind of build, assuming you have two mana regen pieces—and plus mana is also great!).
4) For offhand, you want 100-400 (prob more like 90-340, ones closer to 100-400 are too expensive but you can find one in the 90-340 range for very low prices you just have to look through ALL of them) and make sure it has mana regen. Plus mana is also great. And don’t forget the offhand can have 8.5% crit!
Hope this gives you some ideas. I know it’s nothing new, but I hadn’t read the “whys” behind some of these decisions, and I thought it might help some people out.
If possible I recommend people moving into A2-A3 inferno with this build have at least a 850 DPS 1 hander with as much BASE (not with a tacked on IAS modifier) speed as possible. A one-handed sword, dagger or ceremonial dagger with a socket for a big emerald (if possible) paired with a snake offhand with as high damage as you can find. The highest damage offhands I have found have been the snakes with ~100 min dmg and ~375-390 max damage. The offhands are really cheap and VERY good. You can find really good blue offhands with 100-385dmg with 8% crit or INT for less then 100K easily.
EDIT:
Regarding reflect damage bosses they can be easily countered by kiting to a Health Fountain. Between kiting, pots, hex heal and a heal fountain they are fairly simple to take down. You just have to take them slower then normal. Act 3 Always seems to have at least 2 fountains. One to the top and one to the bottom of the map.
Ha true about a health fountain...but there are none in Whimseyshire! I did figure out some new kiting techniques there that made it so I can safely pick up the muffins they drop as you dmg them.
In my original post I did say the things you recommend about weapons--almost to the letter! That's good info about the mojos--I'd recommend mana regen before int for this build, but the importance of a good high dmg one hander cannot be overstated! Cheers!
I just don't understand the love for Grasp of the Dead. Sure it trivializes white melee mobs, but they're not that much of a problem to begin with. The times I've used it elite / champion packs just blitz through the area, maybe buying me 1 second at most, where Horrify can send a mob back to the edge of the screen. Did I just use it on fast mobs and give up on it too easily?
This is somewhat true when used in isolation--until you realize how powerful it is in conjunction with Hex. ALWAYS place the whole region of Grasp completely in front of the elite pack so they have to go through the whole thing. One mob will prob get to you, especially if it has a fast affix, but it will be immediately hexed. Also, with a 5 stack, never underestimate how much dmg it does! Grasp is what makes Whimseyshire do-able.
Yo I'm a bit cagey about sharing my tag in a forum--put yours up and I'll add you tonight and send you a msg.
I had never put much thought into vision quest regen being % based, I always just kind of thought, "if VQ is active I get full mana," but it wasn't really true. Regen is at 120 now with VQ up and it's finally clicking - no need for a primary. With a 5 stack of SH my bats were critting for over 200K, and this is with a 750 1H / 200 some max offhand.
The rest of my crit gear is quite good however. It's funny with all the people migrating away from IAS and trying new builds, the crit necklace I picked up weeks ago for about 700K is selling around 20 mil.
Let me know how Act III works all the way through. I"ll post a video of my build in Act III and see how you think it compares to yours. The drawback of my build compared to a darts build is that darts are superior for boss kills--but for me, dire bats make everything else go so fast that it's worth slower kills on bosses to use it for elites/champions/white mobs.
What you say about VQ and four CD's is definitely true if you only have four CD spells, but as I explain, when you use FIVE CD spells you never, ever have to worry about that clutch ability being on CD when you need it (aka, Spirit Walk). But it's a bit of a juggle and it definitely takes some getting used to. Once you do, it's a very, very powerful build.
EDIT: Video is up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=zc5jSzNwBxc
I think it's THE key to using Vision Quest in a way that feels good. Glad you're liking it!
I think you're better off getting 30 regen from gear once you can afford it and dropping Honored Guest for Jaunt. You need ~50 regen with a 1.5 weapon to use it with PtV I think.
Also, once you feel comfortable it's better to get ZW as your 5th ability I think. Having 5 short cds requires more work definitely, but it's the better build overall compared to getting Big Bad Voodoo or Fetish Army. I do wonder if Ghost Trance would be good vs reflect packs though. But honestly if you can just get a good LoH amulet you don't need to get Hedge Magic or Ghost Trance as much, though Hedge Magic is kind of nice and you don't really need the extra 10% from Jinx. Mass Confusion can also be really good as your 5th ability, possibly better than ZW actually if you don't mind running in to use it.
I still question if SH is really the way to go vs getting Horrify, too. If you don't need the heal as much, is it really worth having to run in every 30 sec to get like 2-3 stacks a lot of the time? Not so sure.
You could use something like this for example: http://us.battle.net...XURk!UVW!aaZaaZ
Where you wouldn't have to be close to enemies ever and would use Horrify for Vortex, but still get the run speed when trying to keep VQ up. And then use Hex for Teleporters with both GotD and ZW to slow enemies down and SW for emergencies.
I appreciate your thoughts and some of these things I actually already do! For example, in acts I and II I always run with Zombie Wall - Pile On instead of Fetishes--it can one shot many act I elites and take most Act II elites down to under 10% hp (it does 1 million-1.5 million dmg when it crits). I never claimed this build was viable for PvP and I would definitely use Wall or something else other than Fetishes for PvP.
This is an old post also--if you watch my videos at youtube (user name Yorricman) you'll see that I use Jinx now instead of Hedge Magic on Hex. I like Soul Harvest too much for the heal and for the ABSURD damage boost it gives me--remember, I have prioritized crit and crit dmg even over intellect and I only have like 1300 intellect natively--so the Soul Harvest makes an enormous difference (my dps on the character sheet goes from 50k to over 75k with a 5 stack...)
As for the LoH amulet, I spent 30 million on a 8% crit chance/50% crit dmg/100 intellect/soceted/500 life per kill amulet--I'm not going to be in the market for another one in a while. This makes reflects damage mobs with illusionist VERY easy because so many die over and over that you stay healed up fine. Do I wish it was life on hit? Yes...but then it would have been 100 million gold! ;-)
I imagine I would make A LOT of changes for a PvP situation--in fact, I doubt even Dire Bats will be viable for that because they move too slowly. But we'll see--if your opponent has poor defenses, you can spirit walk-->spam bats in their face--GG insta death.
LOL good one.
Actually, the heads that drop off those zombies in Act I are also very annoying because the bats go right over them--I have to kill them with grasp (or just ignore them lol).
Umad?
I'm burning mad! I'm STEAMING MAD!
Fast is a problem for sure, and dire bats is certainly weaker in the first part of Act III because of LoS issues. The most effective way to kill fast mobs is to:
(1) 12% movement speed is not good enough in Act III against fast affix--it's worth pushing that up to 18%-19% (this may require buying some pants JUST for fast affix mobs).
(2) Try and split up the group so you're only taking dmg from one elite instead of 3-4....your hex will keep it down most of the time and you can burn it down (this is where jinx shines)
(3) Just get more dps. Act III requires a LOT of dps to "feel right". It takes a long time to get to that threshold--you definitely need 30k+ dps, and much more is desirable so you can get those packs down fast before they get to you.
You're right about keeping certain mobs at a distance. Heralds of Pestalence are prime examples, but those awful birds in Act III and the Fire Mages--keep them at max distance from your bats and just spam until they are dead. Basically anything with its own projectile (spear throwers, fireball throwers). All Resist also makes a HUGE difference in Act III after 1.0.3. I was a glass cannon before 1.0.3 and could only take 1-2 spears before I died or triggered spirit vessel. Now I can take 6-8--this make a huge difference in your ability to kind of face tank some white mobs and kill them before they have a chance to kill you (life leech/life on hit is good for this--even a little bit makes a big difference).
That said, I I won't lie--there are some elites that are just close to impossible not to die on a few times with this build--I assume tanking them is the only way to survive without dying solo. These include:
(1) Phase Beasts with teleport and illusionist (act III)
(2) Corruptors with Fast or Teleport (act IV)
If you can give me the name of the mobs you're having trouble with I will hunt them down and put up a video for you showing my strategy for killing them. Hope it helps.