I really like toad of Hugeness but I cant for the life of me think of a way to work it into a build over Hex; ie: it would actually be the optimal choice over Hex. Toad of Hugeness is essentially a weaker version of Hex Painful Transformation for a few reasons.
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Toad of Hugeness -
1) only CCs for 5 seconds
2) only does a total of 100% weapon damage during that duration.
3) only can only cast 1 at a time.
4) The damage is physical - there are no synergies with passives or other spells
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Hex w/Painful Transformation
1) CCs for 5 seconds (but stays active more than twice as long as Toad).
2) Painful Transformation does damage at 12% weapon damage per tick for 12 seonds = 144% total weapon damage over its duration. (44% more damage than Toad)
3) a single Shaman can cast hex on numerous targets locking down more of the mobs; toad can only lock down 1 target at a time. This is way better than the shorter CD that Toad brings because its less micro management required and that means more time DPSing AND its more control on the screen too. (Note: Hedge Magic doesnt cast Hex as often because it throws in heals sometimes instead. However if you use Painful Transformation/Unstable Form, Hex is cast numerous times)
4) Other Rune Effects are even Nastier and have GREAT synergies with other abilities - My personal favorite is Hex w/Unstable Form seems to blow Toad of Hugeness out of the water with its 135% AOE poison damage which lends itself to nice synergies with PtV and Bad Medicine. This gets especially nasty when a few enemies are hexed.
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Im probably not understanding something here... but can someone please explain to me why Toad of Hugeness would ever be chosen over Hex (painful transformation and Unstable Form especially)?
It's a weak skill. I'm hoping that you can target the CC which would be a game changer. The problem with Hex (and why I think it's mostly crappy) is that you have no control over what it hexes. Heck... in the beta it would often hex the same monster over and over so I'd only have 1 monster CCed.
If you can't control it, it's a useless skill that will only be used because of it's looks (it does look awesome) or if you have a weird CC build where you have both Hex and Toad.
Hex Advantages:
* You can't damage enemies CCed by the toad but you can damage hexed enemies.
* Hex buffs damage done to enemies.
Toad Advantages:
* You don't know how He works execly. It summons a fetish that will hex enemies. 12 second is the duration of the fetish, not the hexes. When Hex was on the beta i was under the impression it lasted way lower then 6 seconds (it's cooldown)... In 6 seconds the fetish transformed 1 or 2 monsters into chicked but they never lasted that long.
* Toads causes much more damage. It deals 20% damage per second while Hex deals 12%. The damage per cast is irrelevant, or you argue with DPS or DPM. And the toad wins in both criterias.
* I'm under the impression if enemies die inside the toad's belly he will grab another enemy (since the tool tip says "enemies"). So the Toad can potentially crowd control more enemies then the hex if enemies are low on HP.
Overall i think both skills are quite weak. I used hex for quite an while and it was plain much useless. Completletly broken skill.
not enough is known about hedge magic to know if it'll be useful
* Is the value listed on the site the lvl 60 version? (1861 life at lvl 60 is pathetic)
* How much HP do pets have?
* Is it a single target heal or does it heal everyone?
* Is it a HoT or instant heal?
* How often does he cast the heal?
It's pretty hard to tell how useful that rune will be but the heal is only 1861 @ lvl 60 it's far too low to be useful for the healing.
If you can't control it, it's a useless skill that will only be used because of it's looks (it does look awesome) or if you have a weird CC build where you have both Hex and Toad.
The great thing about Unstable Form rune is that you still get a huge benefit no matter what target gets hexed.
Also i believe that people use Hex incorrectly. Hex is a defensive skill not an offensive one. If you cast Hex right next to your character as enemies walk towards you they walk into the Hex radius and they get hexed. When used in this way it becomes an aura (kinda) that hexes mobs that get close to you. This is also how you get hex to hex multiple targets.
I dont like Hedge Magic for pve because it lowers the amount of targets that get hexed because half the time its healing instead of casting hex. The heals are not that powerful. In pvp however (if hex works) then hedge magic is a great option because there arent that many enemy mobs that need hexing.
I use hex as a "guardian angel" literally watching over my shoulder (cheesey i know just making a point)... defensively stopping mobs from getting close to me.
Multiple enemies can be hexed at the same time? Really? I've only ever seen the shaman Hex another target after the duration of the previous one timed out. >_>
As for the Toad of Hugeness vs Hex comparison....it's really hard for me to say. On paper, Hex DOES sound better, but I'm sure that there's some good reasons to use Toad of Hugeness in certain circumstances. Well, besides as part of a themed build :P.
If the only viable choice for toad of hugeness was to already have hex, then I would certainly take neither. Those two abilities combined seem like the start of a terrible build, so why can't we just declare this skill to be bad?
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"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"
The game is not even out so I won't declare anything, since I don't know how it actually works..
Yep... it looks bad but maybe there could be something not known that ends up making it good. If it's targetable I'll definitely think about trying it out in a build. Nothing like eating a summoner in the back or even better yet a champion (if it works).
But maybe you are right, maybe the toad can launch fireballs with his eyes, and shoot lightning bolts out his ass.
If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, feels like a duck, and smells like a duck, then its probably a duck. Killing it and cooking it for 100% confirmation seems kind of silly. Its pretty safe to assume its a duck, and not a dragon in disguise.
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"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"
Both of the skills are kinda meh. There are primary's i like much better, and there are other, more dependable skills than hex that I would prefer to use.
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I want to travel to exotic places, meet interesting people. And then throw spider-filled jars of pottery at them.
The main use of toad of hugeness and hex is to cc more powerful mobs like champions and rares. I believe I heard someone say that rares could be hexed, and this may work with ToH as well. So in that case the two abilities will be very effective in inferno because they will be able to neutralize some of the most powerful enemies in the game possibly for the entire fight.
The effectiveness of hex and ToH will increase as the number of monsters decreases so they might be effective against small groups of powerful enemies whether or not you can control them.
If not then they would be absolutely useless skills so Blizz would buff them to be of some use when people complain
The main use of toad of hugeness and hex is to cc more powerful mobs like champions and rares. I believe I heard someone say that rares could be hexed, and this may work with ToH as well. So in that case the two abilities will be very effective in inferno because they will be able to neutralize some of the most powerful enemies in the game possibly for the entire fight.
If those skills were targatable i'm sure they would be quite unique and possibly useful. But randomly CC 1~2 targets is bound to not work imho.
There was a blue comment awhile back that CC's work even on bosses to a lesser extent, with the exception of a few.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"
Epicurus
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Toad of Hugeness -
1) only CCs for 5 seconds
2) only does a total of 100% weapon damage during that duration.
3) only can only cast 1 at a time.
4) The damage is physical - there are no synergies with passives or other spells
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hex w/Painful Transformation
1) CCs for 5 seconds (but stays active more than twice as long as Toad).
2) Painful Transformation does damage at 12% weapon damage per tick for 12 seonds = 144% total weapon damage over its duration. (44% more damage than Toad)
3) a single Shaman can cast hex on numerous targets locking down more of the mobs; toad can only lock down 1 target at a time. This is way better than the shorter CD that Toad brings because its less micro management required and that means more time DPSing AND its more control on the screen too. (Note: Hedge Magic doesnt cast Hex as often because it throws in heals sometimes instead. However if you use Painful Transformation/Unstable Form, Hex is cast numerous times)
4) Other Rune Effects are even Nastier and have GREAT synergies with other abilities - My personal favorite is Hex w/Unstable Form seems to blow Toad of Hugeness out of the water with its 135% AOE poison damage which lends itself to nice synergies with PtV and Bad Medicine. This gets especially nasty when a few enemies are hexed.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Im probably not understanding something here... but can someone please explain to me why Toad of Hugeness would ever be chosen over Hex (painful transformation and Unstable Form especially)?
If you can't control it, it's a useless skill that will only be used because of it's looks (it does look awesome) or if you have a weird CC build where you have both Hex and Toad.
Hex Advantages:
* You can't damage enemies CCed by the toad but you can damage hexed enemies.
* Hex buffs damage done to enemies.
Toad Advantages:
* You don't know how He works execly. It summons a fetish that will hex enemies. 12 second is the duration of the fetish, not the hexes. When Hex was on the beta i was under the impression it lasted way lower then 6 seconds (it's cooldown)... In 6 seconds the fetish transformed 1 or 2 monsters into chicked but they never lasted that long.
* Toads causes much more damage. It deals 20% damage per second while Hex deals 12%. The damage per cast is irrelevant, or you argue with DPS or DPM. And the toad wins in both criterias.
* I'm under the impression if enemies die inside the toad's belly he will grab another enemy (since the tool tip says "enemies"). So the Toad can potentially crowd control more enemies then the hex if enemies are low on HP.
Overall i think both skills are quite weak. I used hex for quite an while and it was plain much useless. Completletly broken skill.
* Is the value listed on the site the lvl 60 version? (1861 life at lvl 60 is pathetic)
* How much HP do pets have?
* Is it a single target heal or does it heal everyone?
* Is it a HoT or instant heal?
* How often does he cast the heal?
It's pretty hard to tell how useful that rune will be but the heal is only 1861 @ lvl 60 it's far too low to be useful for the healing.
The great thing about Unstable Form rune is that you still get a huge benefit no matter what target gets hexed.
Also i believe that people use Hex incorrectly. Hex is a defensive skill not an offensive one. If you cast Hex right next to your character as enemies walk towards you they walk into the Hex radius and they get hexed. When used in this way it becomes an aura (kinda) that hexes mobs that get close to you. This is also how you get hex to hex multiple targets.
I dont like Hedge Magic for pve because it lowers the amount of targets that get hexed because half the time its healing instead of casting hex. The heals are not that powerful. In pvp however (if hex works) then hedge magic is a great option because there arent that many enemy mobs that need hexing.
I use hex as a "guardian angel" literally watching over my shoulder (cheesey i know just making a point)... defensively stopping mobs from getting close to me.
Multiple enemies can be hex'd at the same time
fixed... thanks for clarification
As for the Toad of Hugeness vs Hex comparison....it's really hard for me to say. On paper, Hex DOES sound better, but I'm sure that there's some good reasons to use Toad of Hugeness in certain circumstances. Well, besides as part of a themed build :P.
Support build!
I can't think of any other reason to use toad of hugeness. Hex is a lower level, and it's more useful.
I would be more inclined to take neither. I honestly don't know what they were thinking with Toad of Hugeness :x.
Epicurus
Yep... it looks bad but maybe there could be something not known that ends up making it good. If it's targetable I'll definitely think about trying it out in a build. Nothing like eating a summoner in the back or even better yet a champion (if it works).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BE5TdbijIeo
But maybe you are right, maybe the toad can launch fireballs with his eyes, and shoot lightning bolts out his ass.
If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, feels like a duck, and smells like a duck, then its probably a duck. Killing it and cooking it for 100% confirmation seems kind of silly. Its pretty safe to assume its a duck, and not a dragon in disguise.
Epicurus
If not then they would be absolutely useless skills so Blizz would buff them to be of some use when people complain
If those skills were targatable i'm sure they would be quite unique and possibly useful. But randomly CC 1~2 targets is bound to not work imho.
Epicurus