if someone asked you what the width was of a wall. 'idk that term is relative' would be your reponse? rofl
Seems this whole arguement boils down to perception and the use of Width vs Depth.
What I perceive is that the rune doubles the width from 3 --- to 6 ---|---
IF it said double the depth then I would imagine a line of 3 --- doubled to 6 ===
However, this is my opinion based upon my interpretation of the words and my perception of how the skill will be cast in relation to the caster.
Perception and the interchangable nature of the English language means this may well be an 'unwinable' arguement
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear.I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain...
the picture i showed you is looking at it from two angles, and still it is the width. again you and the rest of the 8th graders need to learn what width is because it is FAR from relative to a wall. your just recycling the same info that ive already disproved. honestly your arguing just to argue, you dont REALLY believe that do you? if someone asked you what the width was of a wall. 'idk that term is relative' would be your reponse? rofl
I believe that you are the one who is actually acting like an "8th grader". You are the first person to actually resort to insults to prove a point. Your stubbornness to back down from a flawed argument shows everyone in this thread the actual person who is 12 years old (if you are developmentally challenged: usually people in grade 8 are 12-13).
Thank you for your time and have a good day.
i didnt use insults to prove anything, i used logic, common sense, and google. the insults were because people who are retarded and think they are right while arguing with illogical reasoning need to be told they are retarded. if i was 100% polite it wouldnt matter, these couple tards arguing about what "width" is would still not know ass to elbows what it really is. clearly from their responses. i proved my point over and over and they've finally resorted to recycling what they've already said.
the picture i showed you is looking at it from two angles, and still it is the width. again you and the rest of the 8th graders need to learn what width is because it is FAR from relative to a wall. your just recycling the same info that ive already disproved. honestly your arguing just to argue, you dont REALLY believe that do you? if someone asked you what the width was of a wall. 'idk that term is relative' would be your reponse? rofl
http://thinkmath.edc.org/index.php/Length,_width,_height,_depth
You are using obscenely narrow definitions for these words. If you were to refer to the longest side of the wall as the length, then yes, the shorter side would be the width, but if you were to refer to longer side as the width, then the shorter side would be the depth, it is completely relative and you have to understand that. With that in mind, further understanding of zombie wall and it's rune require some speculation AKA 'common sense.' Based on http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sT0YEsj249M, nothing can pass through the wall(unless they can attack and break it) and, as such, increasing the depth of the wall would have very little effect even if they could break through, so I am assuming that the wall will double the length of it's longest side. YUMMY EVIDENCE YOU LOVE EVIDENCE DON'T YOU D3MANIAC!?!?!
Could we please drop the argument about width vs length <_<?
fine. i think its winnable and its not "relative" but they do so whatever.
about your build. i think you need zombie wall (i never said it wasnt good :P) regardless of it being able to be walked through or not. i think its a must have if you have zero pets. good damage and can slow them down with no CD. if your going to be non stop killing you need some sort of non CD based CC type spell. IMO
so sub out confusion, since its CD is sooo long. and rune zombie wall for slow. and then your build MAY be able to stand up in inferno. still need defense gear and shield i think
Could we please drop the argument about width vs length <_<?
I would except it is actually quite important to the discussion because we have to speculate on the utilities of the WD's abilities because understanding the functionality helps us make educated guesses as to how builds will actually play out in-game instead of broadly stating that the only good strategy is using pets because the WD lacks utility.
This is so pointless. Blizzard has stated they want all builds to be viable yes? If indeed WD's MUST use pets for Inferno in the current implementation (which I HIGHLY doubt) -they will change it so that is not the case-.
Besides, all you have is a calculator build. Get to Inferno on your WD and come back with actual proof.
P.S. You didn't include Crimson Soul Harvest which is a ridiculous survival ability for the WD.
Could we please drop the argument about width vs length <_<?
fine. i think its winnable and its not "relative" but they do so whatever.
about your build. i think you need zombie wall (i never said it wasnt good :P) regardless of it being able to be walked through or not. i think its a must have if you have zero pets. good damage and can slow them down with no CD. if your going to be non stop killing you need some sort of non CD based CC type spell. IMO
so sub out confusion, since its CD is sooo long. and rune zombie wall for slow. and then your build MAY be able to stand up in inferno. still need defense gear and shield i think
You have to remember that the runes right now are only lvl4 runes and not lvl7 runes. Mass Confusion with a lvl7 rune (assuming that the cd reduction is the same for each lvl) would reduce the CD to 4sec. Yeah the lvl7 runes only drop in Inferno but you could always buy them from the AH... or just die through Inferno until you find one xD
WD skills for surviving WITHOUT pets, yes these can be runed to make them better or have less of a cool down but not so much better to make them worth not having zombie dogs or gargantuan. not even close. pets are 10x > then these. but pets used in CONJUNCTION with these makes him super awesome.
I disagree here. You seem to completely ignore runing some of these CC skills. If you rune Mass Confusion with a lvl 7 Gold rune then the CD is reduced to 4 seconds! If we assume (BIG assumption I know) that it works, or even if it's effect is reduced by up to 50%, then it would last 4 secs with a 4 sec CD.
Equally, Horrify can have it's time of effect more than doubled with runing, Spirit Walk's duration can be more than trebled etc etc
Also, the effectiveness of minions is heavily dependent on our own stats and, therefore, gear. As such, how are we to know the effectiveness of our minions when we are fresh into Inferno? If, as you state, we as player characters can be 'one shotted' then what makes you think a fresh Inferno character's minions would last much longer? Perhaps we will NEED to find effective alternatives to the use of minions until our gear is of a suitable level that they synergise and become viable.
All supposition, but so is all talk of viability in Inferno
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear.I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain...
Basically they want all types of builds to be viable, not just WoW cookie-cutter builds.
Some examples:
-Melee Wizard
-Melee DH
-Petless WD
Those are just a few obvious ones that come to mind. But yah they want people to make a build that is fun for them, so you won't need pets to be successful in Inferno.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
One is never hurt by being given additional choices, only by taking them away. A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
If you were to refer to the longest side of the wall as the length, then yes, the shorter side would be the width, but if you were to refer to longer side as the width, then the shorter side would be the depth.
/arguement
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear.I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain...
This is so pointless. Blizzard has stated they want all builds to be viable yes? If indeed WD's MUST use pets for Inferno in the current implementation (which I HIGHLY doubt) -they will change it so that is not the case-.
Besides, all you have is a calculator build. Get to Inferno on your WD and come back with actual proof.
P.S. You didn't include Crimson Soul Harvest which is a ridiculous survival ability for the WD.
I made all three of those points back on the first page. Unfortunately for us, they aren't arguments in our dear, omnipotent OP's eyes.
the insults were because people who are retarded and think they are right while arguing with illogical reasoning need to be told they are retarded.
OMG...the irony...it's so delicious! Om nom nom. Thinking before you type (which clearly isn't your strong suit based on the 3 pages that have popped up in this thread since I was last on) might be something for you to consider you know...at some point.
If you look at the video which is posted earlier in the thread.
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sT0YEsj249M)
One of the very last gets through it before he gets his head crushed. It doesn't block him from getting through.
I'm quite sure I'll be playing a non-pet build for inferno. My barbarian will make it through hardcore with its reckless type of build and so will a damn non-pet Witch Doctor.
I feel a bit sad reading D3Manic2012 posts. The insults. There is no reason for this type of behavior while just discussing builds. Cheer up and enjoy the discussion.
if someone asked you what the width was of a wall. 'idk that term is relative' would be your reponse? rofl
Seems this whole arguement boils down to perception and the use of Width vs Depth.
What I perceive is that the rune doubles the width from 3 --- to 6 ---|---
IF it said double the depth then I would imagine a line of 3 --- doubled to 6 ===
However, this is my opinion based upon my interpretation of the words and my perception of how the skill will be cast in relation to the caster.
Perception and the interchangable nature of the English language means this may well be an 'unwinable' arguement
That is the logical way to look at it, at least from my opinion. However, I am not going to discount either, as they are both possible.
On the other hand, D3maniac's opinion is extremely biased, and thus he claims it HAS to be "===".
He is making a baseless assumption, and then claiming it as evidence to support his views.
All of which is actually completely irrelevant, as Wall of Zombies + Slow is still a great defensive ability.
However, to consider things like that would be counter productive to his argument, so he ignores it.
If you look at the video which is posted earlier in the thread.
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sT0YEsj249M)
One of the very last gets through it before he gets his head crushed. It doesn't block him from getting through.
I'm quite sure I'll be playing a non-pet build for inferno. My barbarian will make it through hardcore with its reckless type of build and so will a damn non-pet Witch Doctor.
I feel a bit sad reading D3Manic2012 posts. The insults. There is no reason for this type of behavior while just discussing builds. Cheer up and enjoy the discussion.
The video is pretty poor, but it does look like one guy makes it through. Though, it could be some of the ragdoll physics kicking in.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
One is never hurt by being given additional choices, only by taking them away. A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
One of the very last gets through it before he gets his head crushed. It doesn't block him from getting through.
That is kinda different tho because it gets through a gap in the wall rather than just bypassing it completely. Something the size of an unburied *speculation alert* probably couldnt get through. I'd imagine the slow is emitted so that things get through the gaps slower and are more likely to cause a blockage. As for a spammable blockade being op...we are supposed to be op.
If you look at the video which is posted earlier in the thread.
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sT0YEsj249M)
One of the very last gets through it before he gets his head crushed. It doesn't block him from getting through.
I'm quite sure I'll be playing a non-pet build for inferno. My barbarian will make it through hardcore with its reckless type of build and so will a damn non-pet Witch Doctor.
I feel a bit sad reading D3Manic2012 posts. The insults. There is no reason for this type of behavior while just discussing builds. Cheer up and enjoy the discussion.
I noticed that too, but if may also just be an animation issue. Chances are the models do not clip once there are considered dead
What I perceive is that the rune doubles the width from 3 --- to 6 ---|---
IF it said double the depth then I would imagine a line of 3 --- doubled to 6 ===
However, this is my opinion based upon my interpretation of the words and my perception of how the skill will be cast in relation to the caster.
Perception and the interchangable nature of the English language means this may well be an 'unwinable' arguement
i didnt use insults to prove anything, i used logic, common sense, and google. the insults were because people who are retarded and think they are right while arguing with illogical reasoning need to be told they are retarded. if i was 100% polite it wouldnt matter, these couple tards arguing about what "width" is would still not know ass to elbows what it really is. clearly from their responses. i proved my point over and over and they've finally resorted to recycling what they've already said.
You are using obscenely narrow definitions for these words. If you were to refer to the longest side of the wall as the length, then yes, the shorter side would be the width, but if you were to refer to longer side as the width, then the shorter side would be the depth, it is completely relative and you have to understand that. With that in mind, further understanding of zombie wall and it's rune require some speculation AKA 'common sense.' Based on http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sT0YEsj249M, nothing can pass through the wall(unless they can attack and break it) and, as such, increasing the depth of the wall would have very little effect even if they could break through, so I am assuming that the wall will double the length of it's longest side. YUMMY EVIDENCE YOU LOVE EVIDENCE DON'T YOU D3MANIAC!?!?!
fine. i think its winnable and its not "relative" but they do so whatever.
about your build. i think you need zombie wall (i never said it wasnt good :P) regardless of it being able to be walked through or not. i think its a must have if you have zero pets. good damage and can slow them down with no CD. if your going to be non stop killing you need some sort of non CD based CC type spell. IMO
so sub out confusion, since its CD is sooo long. and rune zombie wall for slow. and then your build MAY be able to stand up in inferno. still need defense gear and shield i think
Besides, all you have is a calculator build. Get to Inferno on your WD and come back with actual proof.
P.S. You didn't include Crimson Soul Harvest which is a ridiculous survival ability for the WD.
You have to remember that the runes right now are only lvl4 runes and not lvl7 runes. Mass Confusion with a lvl7 rune (assuming that the cd reduction is the same for each lvl) would reduce the CD to 4sec. Yeah the lvl7 runes only drop in Inferno but you could always buy them from the AH... or just die through Inferno until you find one xD
Equally, Horrify can have it's time of effect more than doubled with runing, Spirit Walk's duration can be more than trebled etc etc
Also, the effectiveness of minions is heavily dependent on our own stats and, therefore, gear. As such, how are we to know the effectiveness of our minions when we are fresh into Inferno? If, as you state, we as player characters can be 'one shotted' then what makes you think a fresh Inferno character's minions would last much longer? Perhaps we will NEED to find effective alternatives to the use of minions until our gear is of a suitable level that they synergise and become viable.
All supposition, but so is all talk of viability in Inferno
Basically they want all types of builds to be viable, not just WoW cookie-cutter builds.
Some examples:
-Melee Wizard
-Melee DH
-Petless WD
Those are just a few obvious ones that come to mind. But yah they want people to make a build that is fun for them, so you won't need pets to be successful in Inferno.
A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
I made all three of those points back on the first page. Unfortunately for us, they aren't arguments in our dear, omnipotent OP's eyes.
Have a +1.
OMG...the irony...it's so delicious! Om nom nom. Thinking before you type (which clearly isn't your strong suit based on the 3 pages that have popped up in this thread since I was last on) might be something for you to consider you know...at some point.
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sT0YEsj249M)
One of the very last gets through it before he gets his head crushed. It doesn't block him from getting through.
I'm quite sure I'll be playing a non-pet build for inferno. My barbarian will make it through hardcore with its reckless type of build and so will a damn non-pet Witch Doctor.
I feel a bit sad reading D3Manic2012 posts. The insults. There is no reason for this type of behavior while just discussing builds. Cheer up and enjoy the discussion.
That is the logical way to look at it, at least from my opinion. However, I am not going to discount either, as they are both possible.
On the other hand, D3maniac's opinion is extremely biased, and thus he claims it HAS to be "===".
He is making a baseless assumption, and then claiming it as evidence to support his views.
All of which is actually completely irrelevant, as Wall of Zombies + Slow is still a great defensive ability.
However, to consider things like that would be counter productive to his argument, so he ignores it.
The video is pretty poor, but it does look like one guy makes it through. Though, it could be some of the ragdoll physics kicking in.
A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!