Yeah, let's all get super srs bzns about end-game skills because any of us have been able to play end game.
In other news, telling someone he's talking out of his ass, using the word 'retarded', and failing to apparently grasp 3rd-grade grammar = super constructive ways to theorycraft in an intelligent way. Thanks for the contribution of that post. Bud.
If it was x3 the skill would be the best hands down, but they sadly only get two hits off each, so it will be x2. Lets compare to splinters. 180%wpndmg per cast versus 152%wpndmg (4x19x2). It does less damage than splinters, but on top of that it is also less predictable. Need to kill a specific target in a crowd? too bad, the spiders will jump all around. The only advantage is the mana cost.
spiders also act like homing missles jumping at targets from very far away where poison dart is in a direct strait line so if a mob moves slightly your entire skill will miss, where if you miss even by a whopping 25 yards with leapers they will still jump at that target. leapers far > psn dart in every situation unless you have a single target that isnt moving at all
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Darts deals much more damage against single targets.
Spiders take a lifetime to start attacking and the jar takes too much time to hit and release the spiders. Very slow skill.
Spiders damage spread around horribly when there're more then one monster in the vicinity. It's like an single target ability that devide it's damage potential in multiple enemies ¬¬
Using spiders while playing with other classes (or even an non spider WD) is humiliating. In 50% of the cases people kill monsters before the jar lands and in the 50% other cases they kill before the spiders start attacking.
The only compensation is the mana cost, which is meanful when you burn all your mana in the boss. In this case the lower the mana cost of your ability, faster your mana will comeback. I assume when a good mana spender single target ability is available (Spirit Barrage) spiders will find an nich as antiboss singletarget ability. But right now Poison Dart outdo it in every way.
Dunno what you're doing wrong, but I hardly ever miss with my darts. That being a non-issue then, the darts are superior. Your post only defends spiders as being better for bad players.
lulz? im saying mobs CAN move out of the path. obviously spamming them constantly you will hit stuff. and in later difficulties when mobs are much smarter and move much faster it wont be nearly as easy as super-easy mode beta. ive seen you've started to post in the WD forums more and you talk out of your ass a lot and dont really know what your talking about. when i talk about anything with skills im ALWAYS talking about end-game, because arguing about anything before that is pointless and retarded. most of what will work in normal easy mode wont be possible in hell/inferno, obviously. so do some thinking first bud
Let's check the facts. %wpndmg is not going to change from difficulty to difficulty, therefore we can make predictions about raw damage output on all difficulties.Thinking done first, bud.
constantly spamming point: I never said constantly spamming, in fact, what I said was a general point for darts use. Mobs will need to have fetish-like speed and move in a completely orthogonal path from the direction the darts are coming from in order to actually dodge them. As it is right now, splinters WILL hit mobs, and not just a little bit of the time as you make it out to be. Spiders simply do less damage, but also cost less mana. (and can be used by people who can't aim with the darts too).
I have noticed your posts too. You're one of the worst when it comes to unsubstantiated claims presented as matters of fact. You have no idea how to argue anything and yet you criticize nearly every person I see you respond to.
Now let's check your own pointless speculation: mobs will be faster and smarter? source on that. Yes there will be some champion packs likely with extra fast affixes, but you made it as a general point.
So let me leave you with this: If you want to accuse anyone of talking out of their ass, at least present an argument detailing what you think is out of their ass and why it is the case that you think so. If you merely post "you're talking out of your ass", then you have contributed nothing at all. I guess it's easier to spam your way to a high postcount if you never present any arguments though.
Ahh, you've met GladHeHasBeta. I suppose it was inevitable.
On topin: Are there any videos out there of the runed spider skill with the mother spider spawning small spiders? Can't remember the name.
Let's check the facts. %wpndmg is not going to change from difficulty to difficulty, therefore we can make predictions about raw damage output on all difficulties.Thinking done first, bud.
constantly spamming point: I never said constantly spamming, in fact, what I said was a general point for darts use. Mobs will need to have fetish-like speed and move in a completely orthogonal path from the direction the darts are coming from in order to actually dodge them. As it is right now, splinters WILL hit mobs, and not just a little bit of the time as you make it out to be. Spiders simply do less damage, but also cost less mana. (and can be used by people who can't aim with the darts too).
your just like the other tards theorycrafting, you ONLY think about raw dmg output and dont think about how mobs will react, how they move, the area you are in or ANYTHING at all. its quite sad when your desperately trying to act smart and you dont even know what the hell your talking about in the slightest and THAT is why i criticize most people i talk to because they do exactly what your doing now.
your argument: "if i cast this dart directly at a mob and hope it either doesnt move or moves exactly in its path then i winz, just look at normal" -do you honestly think thats even a remotely good argument? to me it just sounds like narrow minded child speak. but sure man its cool ill let you think what you do and lulz when your wondering why your having so much trouble beating nightmare let alone getting close to the end-game.
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"once the pretty hardcore gamers we had testing inferno found it fairly difficult, we then we doubled it" -trolololol jay wilson
So let me leave you with this: If you want to accuse anyone of talking out of their ass, at least present an argument detailing what you think is out of their ass and why it is the case that you think so. If you merely post "you're talking out of your ass", then you have contributed nothing at all. I guess it's easier to spam your way to a high postcount if you never present any arguments though.
^ This a million times over.
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"...We few, we happy few, we band of brothers; for he to-day that sheds his blood with me
shall be my brother..."
Man you must be playing with 500 ping or something. Because hitting poison darts are pretty easy, i don't know what you're talking about. Unless Inferno monsters actually attempt to EVADE your abilities like a player would normally do, your arguments holds no merit. Anyone easilly have 99% accuracy with poison darts.
And being "semi-homing" doesn't remotely compensates the fact that spiders have lower damage, have an delay before the damage fully triggers and the damage spread when theres multiple targets available, which is absolutly fucking horrible. The only situation were spiders are good is against bosses and against bosses Spliters Poison Darts are better in all possible ways.
Maybe for PVP leaping spiders will be good for ticking out HP with high accuracy skill. But in PvE damage and other properties counts more then hittability.
but sure man its cool ill let you think what you do and lulz when your wondering why your having so much trouble beating nightmare let alone getting close to the end-game.
Funny how you assume another player can't beat the game.
Man you must be playing with 500 ping or something. Because hitting poison darts are pretty easy, i don't know what you're talking about. Unless Inferno monsters actually attempt to EVADE your abilities like a player would normally do, your arguments holds no merit. Anyone easilly have 99% accuracy with poison darts.
again. your basing your argument off of NORMAL MODE just like him. your argument has zero merit because like i said what works in normal has nothing to do with what will work in inferno.
Funny how you assume another player can't beat the game.
when they are obviously lacking strategic analysis. yes, i highly doubt he will get anywhere close with his way of thinking and inferno will be a nice wake up call for both of you apparently.
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"once the pretty hardcore gamers we had testing inferno found it fairly difficult, we then we doubled it" -trolololol jay wilson
Tbh you don't pick your primary skill based on its damage, you pick it based on the role it fills for you. If you would like a little more AoE, take frogs or if you wanted to be able to slow mobs from afar (my personal choice) take spiders with medusa.
The lag time on the spiders kills the skill for me. It takes about a second before they do any damage at all. I don't enjoy those types of skills.
Dart does more damage than spiders, does it quicker and it's targeted damage (I can choose who I want to attack, which is huge in this game). I can't see me ever using spiders really...
Of course, everything could change after we play the later difficulties/acts. It's possible that the homing aspect of spiders will make them more viable. To claim that is the case without any knowledge though is just stupid.
herpderp sythrasz. how about a little wager? may 15th we both roll WD's first and ill use leapers the whole game as my main attack and you use poison dart. we will see who completes inferno the fastest and who dies the most. whoever has the best ratio wins the other persons gear? i mean if your so confident in your darts you wont mind it at all because you'll obvsly win bro
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"once the pretty hardcore gamers we had testing inferno found it fairly difficult, we then we doubled it" -trolololol jay wilson
Dunno what you're doing wrong, but I hardly ever miss with my darts. That being a non-issue then, the darts are superior. Your post only defends spiders as being better for bad players.
lulz? im saying mobs CAN move out of the path. obviously spamming them constantly you will hit stuff. and in later difficulties when mobs are much smarter and move much faster it wont be nearly as easy as super-easy mode beta. ive seen you've started to post in the WD forums more and you talk out of your ass a lot and dont really know what your talking about. when i talk about anything with skills im ALWAYS talking about end-game, because arguing about anything before that is pointless and retarded. most of what will work in normal easy mode wont be possible in hell/inferno, obviously. so do some thinking first bud
Man you must be playing with 500 ping or something. Because hitting poison darts are pretty easy, i don't know what you're talking about. Unless Inferno monsters actually attempt to EVADE your abilities like a player would normally do, your arguments holds no merit. Anyone easilly have 99% accuracy with poison darts.
again. your basing your argument off of NORMAL MODE just like him. your argument has zero merit because like i said what works in normal has nothing to do with what will work in inferno.
I'm basing my arguments on theorycrafting + normal mode experience + information available about higher difficulties including inferno. You were saying spiders beat darts because of it's better hit likelyhood but theres no reason to believe hit likelyhood will change between difficulties.
Unless you prove somehow monsters in inferno will evade your attacks like a player would normaly do, i don't think your arguments hold any truth.
when they are obviously lacking strategic analysis. yes, i highly doubt he will get anywhere close with his way of thinking and inferno will be a nice wake up call for both of you apparently.
You're the one lacking strategic analysis once you're the one not taking damage per second and spiders horrible behavior against multiple enemies in consideration while overvaluing the accuracy discrepance of two skills while one have 100% and the other have 95% or higher.
Apparently you have secret analysis methods you refuse to share and submite to judgment by the community.
herpderp sythrasz. how about a little wager? may 15th we both roll WD's first and ill use leapers the whole game as my main attack and you use poison dart. we will see who completes inferno the fastest and who dies the most. whoever has the best ratio wins the other persons gear? i mean if your so confident in your darts you wont mind it at all because you'll obvsly win bro
Owned.
LOL. thanks for proving my point kid.
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"once the pretty hardcore gamers we had testing inferno found it fairly difficult, we then we doubled it" -trolololol jay wilson
I think we're all wasting a lot of finger-energy not heeding the advice found in Maka's signature.
Indeed let's stop responding to the hypocrite in general. Nothing good can come of it.
We're talking about the guy who is mad because he can't aim simple little darts, right? I find it completely funny that he believes there is more evidence showing that Corpse Spiders would be better for end-game than Poison Darts. Considering that he is a complete hypocrite and doesn't impose the same set of rules upon himself as he does us - it's really no wonder. I find it horribly disgusting and appalling that he continues to argue with the mindset that he's automatically right without any evidence.
Point: The argument is asinine because neither side has evidence nor any validations to prove whether one is better than the other. It is all baseless ASSumptions. If he wants to argue that a terrible skill will be better - then by all means, let him. I'll personally never waste a skill-slot on a skill that is such tripe, though.
My $0.02: Beta is raging because he feels his opinion is the God almighty truth and factual science when it comes to Diablo III.
herpderp sythrasz. how about a little wager? may 15th we both roll WD's first and ill use leapers the whole game as my main attack and you use poison dart. we will see who completes inferno the fastest and who dies the most. whoever has the best ratio wins the other persons gear? i mean if your so confident in your darts you wont mind it at all because you'll obvsly win bro
I can't place enough emphasis on how stupid this argument is. Considering you have SIX skills - yes, SIX, and not one - this argument is completely flawed in every way and utterly retarded. How about, if this is a pissing contest and you want to impose such idiotic rules, we go even further and this is your only rule: You can only use Corpse Spiders and no other skills.
That's how stupid your argument is. It's not ONE skill that makes or breaks our arsenal - it's the fluidity between the skills we choose.
In other news, telling someone he's talking out of his ass, using the word 'retarded', and failing to apparently grasp 3rd-grade grammar = super constructive ways to theorycraft in an intelligent way. Thanks for the contribution of that post. Bud.
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Darts deals much more damage against single targets.
Spiders take a lifetime to start attacking and the jar takes too much time to hit and release the spiders. Very slow skill.
Spiders damage spread around horribly when there're more then one monster in the vicinity. It's like an single target ability that devide it's damage potential in multiple enemies ¬¬
Using spiders while playing with other classes (or even an non spider WD) is humiliating. In 50% of the cases people kill monsters before the jar lands and in the 50% other cases they kill before the spiders start attacking.
The only compensation is the mana cost, which is meanful when you burn all your mana in the boss. In this case the lower the mana cost of your ability, faster your mana will comeback. I assume when a good mana spender single target ability is available (Spirit Barrage) spiders will find an nich as antiboss singletarget ability. But right now Poison Dart outdo it in every way.
Ahh, you've met GladHeHasBeta. I suppose it was inevitable.
On topin: Are there any videos out there of the runed spider skill with the mother spider spawning small spiders? Can't remember the name.
your just like the other tards theorycrafting, you ONLY think about raw dmg output and dont think about how mobs will react, how they move, the area you are in or ANYTHING at all. its quite sad when your desperately trying to act smart and you dont even know what the hell your talking about in the slightest and THAT is why i criticize most people i talk to because they do exactly what your doing now.
your argument: "if i cast this dart directly at a mob and hope it either doesnt move or moves exactly in its path then i winz, just look at normal" -do you honestly think thats even a remotely good argument? to me it just sounds like narrow minded child speak. but sure man its cool ill let you think what you do and lulz when your wondering why your having so much trouble beating nightmare let alone getting close to the end-game.
^ This a million times over.
for he to-day that sheds his blood with me
shall be my brother..."
And being "semi-homing" doesn't remotely compensates the fact that spiders have lower damage, have an delay before the damage fully triggers and the damage spread when theres multiple targets available, which is absolutly fucking horrible. The only situation were spiders are good is against bosses and against bosses Spliters Poison Darts are better in all possible ways.
Maybe for PVP leaping spiders will be good for ticking out HP with high accuracy skill. But in PvE damage and other properties counts more then hittability.
Funny how you assume another player can't beat the game.
when they are obviously lacking strategic analysis. yes, i highly doubt he will get anywhere close with his way of thinking and inferno will be a nice wake up call for both of you apparently.
Dart does more damage than spiders, does it quicker and it's targeted damage (I can choose who I want to attack, which is huge in this game). I can't see me ever using spiders really...
Of course, everything could change after we play the later difficulties/acts. It's possible that the homing aspect of spiders will make them more viable. To claim that is the case without any knowledge though is just stupid.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7w64fbqYQY
1- This ain't perception, it's a fact.
2- If you had any perceptive skills you'd have understood that what I meant was that its useless to speculate wheter a skill is OP or not.
3- Give me a break
I'm basing my arguments on theorycrafting + normal mode experience + information available about higher difficulties including inferno. You were saying spiders beat darts because of it's better hit likelyhood but theres no reason to believe hit likelyhood will change between difficulties.
Unless you prove somehow monsters in inferno will evade your attacks like a player would normaly do, i don't think your arguments hold any truth.
You're the one lacking strategic analysis once you're the one not taking damage per second and spiders horrible behavior against multiple enemies in consideration while overvaluing the accuracy discrepance of two skills while one have 100% and the other have 95% or higher.
Apparently you have secret analysis methods you refuse to share and submite to judgment by the community.
LOL. thanks for proving my point kid.
We're talking about the guy who is mad because he can't aim simple little darts, right? I find it completely funny that he believes there is more evidence showing that Corpse Spiders would be better for end-game than Poison Darts. Considering that he is a complete hypocrite and doesn't impose the same set of rules upon himself as he does us - it's really no wonder. I find it horribly disgusting and appalling that he continues to argue with the mindset that he's automatically right without any evidence.
Point: The argument is asinine because neither side has evidence nor any validations to prove whether one is better than the other. It is all baseless ASSumptions. If he wants to argue that a terrible skill will be better - then by all means, let him. I'll personally never waste a skill-slot on a skill that is such tripe, though.
My $0.02: Beta is raging because he feels his opinion is the God almighty truth and factual science when it comes to Diablo III.
Secret hint: It's not.
I can't place enough emphasis on how stupid this argument is. Considering you have SIX skills - yes, SIX, and not one - this argument is completely flawed in every way and utterly retarded. How about, if this is a pissing contest and you want to impose such idiotic rules, we go even further and this is your only rule: You can only use Corpse Spiders and no other skills.
That's how stupid your argument is. It's not ONE skill that makes or breaks our arsenal - it's the fluidity between the skills we choose.