In the previous Diablo game, summons were more of a "what the hell, why not?" to non-summoner based builds. Elemental druids would cast ravens and wolves because other than the negligible mana toll, there wasn't any true payment needed. Personally, I've always loved summons and thought they were cool to have as helpers even if my character wasn't build to support them. However, skill slots are highly valuable in D3 and I'm trying to decide whether it seems viable to occupy one with the Zombie Dogs spell if my Witch Doctor build uses DPS in a non-summon oriented way.
If you're wondering, my other active skills in the beta are Fire Bomb (main attack), Grasp of the Dead (as an AoE DoT/impeder), and Zombie Bats (burn enemy health as an AoE when mobs are close.) I just keep Zombie Dogs up at the moment because I don't really have any other skill that I'd use, but when I observe their damage output, it is extremely low compared to other attacks.
In case you guys don't have the Beta or just aren't up to date with the current stats, Zombie Dogs do 15% weapon damage each and three are summoned at a time. While a total of 45% weapon damage seems fairly weak compared to most other attacks (which are usually above 100%), try to keep in mind that the dogs are constantly active until they die and it isn't needed to constantly cast them like one would need to do for other attacks.
So, what I'm debating is... is it worth a skill slot to have as a constant background attack? What do you guys think?
PS: All my experience is based off the beta, but you're all free to debate whether you think the skill is worth it in beta or in the actual game; both are cool to hear.
I'm going to vote yes, not just because they are nice to have as a constant background attack, but they also act as a distraction to monsters and will allow you to attack them while they are busy going after the dogs.
I voted yes, but that doesn't necessarily mean I will use them in later difficulties. Right now I'm looking at builds with no permanent minions for hell / inferno, but that may very well change before release.
Blizz already said those builds would be viable, but not optimal in later difficulties. Warning: The bar on the word viable is set pretty damn low.
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One is never hurt by being given additional choices, only by taking them away. A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
Yes, it is worth the active skill slot for the added effect that you can have on the dogs due to the rune that you socket the skill with.
No, if you do not really care about the rune effects but more so want them as a 'why-the-hell-not' aspect. Your better off getting them from another skill through the use of summoning them when you kill something that is effected by that spell like Mass Confusion or Circle of Life.
Note: This is assuming that these effects work even without having the zombie dog skill itself active.
I think they are, but we haven't seen half of what they can do with skills and runes that are not present in the beta.
Also I would love to see how they scale in the harder difficulties.
Depending on build, of course, they seem completely worth the skill slot, simply given the fact that the witch doctor is designed to be away from the enemy. While the little bit of damage the doggies do doesn't seem particularly great, they will serve as an added layer of ablative defense against enemies as you adventure.
That said, if we get to Inferno difficulty and they are being one-shot by basic monsters, I can see them disappearing from people's builds.
It definitely feels like these are going to be a wait and see sort of thing... While they are obviously very practical on normal difficulty in act 1 of the beta, the question is what their survivability will be like at higher levels. If all three of your puppies get wiped out in less than a minute, and you're constantly sitting there with the skill on cool down waiting to suppon them again, then I think they won't be viable. But if they are able to survive in higher difficulties, then they will be useful to draw attention away from the WD so he can go to town on badies before they get into range.
zombie dogs as an isolated skill maybe isn't so great. but there are other skill/rune combinations that buff and are buffed by zombie dogs. plus you can blow them up and get more. I would say they are definitely worth it, if your other skills and runes are set to match.
I think they will be. I base this on the rune affects though, without the runes i wouldnt use the skill but since there are such great benefits i think its totally worth it.
Life Link and Leeching Beasts are a must have for any of my witch doctor builds so ill probably go with the little druggies every time.
Blizzard designed the WD to be viable without the zombie dogs. That being said, the zombie dogs are effectively meat shields. Their damage really isn't that great 15% per bite, per dog. If each dog is biting then it's 45% or 60% with the passive per bite in total. For an active skill slot the damage isn't that great. With the correct passives and runes, they act as health shields and batteries. With the correct passives you can have them negate close to half of the damage they take prior to any armor and resistances are applied that they will inherit from your stats, and then you can pick up a rune that will let them heal you 25% of the damage they do, OR a chance to leave behind a health globe when they die.
You should never really look at the zombie dogs as a source of damage (unless you have sacrifice as well) but as a source of damage mitigation. Damage done to them is damage not done to you, and if you pick up the indigo rune they help absorb even more damage.
You should never really look at the zombie dogs as a source of damage (unless you have sacrifice as well) but as a source of damage mitigation. Damage done to them is damage not done to you, and if you pick up the indigo rune they help absorb even more damage.
I agree with this. WD is very much spell based class, but with my experience doesn't have the damage output that the wizard does. That and the fact that you will run out of Mana here and there, it is important to have space between you and the mobs.
You should never really look at the zombie dogs as a source of damage (unless you have sacrifice as well) but as a source of damage mitigation. Damage done to them is damage not done to you, and if you pick up the indigo rune they help absorb even more damage.
I agree with this. WD is very much spell based class, but with my experience doesn't have the damage output that the wizard does. That and the fact that you will run out of Mana here and there, it is important to have space between you and the mobs.
I wouldn't necessarily say they don't have the damage output of a wizard, so much as the damage WD does do, is not burst like a wizards is. Thus the somewhat necessity of the dogs to buy the player time for the dots to do their damage.
I see zombie dogs as an essential ability for the WD, and i'm in no doubt i will use them. Especially in the higher levels in NM+ i think they will be extremely important with the right build. I would assume that Blizz will make zombie dogs usefull in high level, can't see them get underpowered and get useless, i don't think they want that to happen with any skill really. I think they are going to be awesome and very important, especially when runed.
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If you're wondering, my other active skills in the beta are Fire Bomb (main attack), Grasp of the Dead (as an AoE DoT/impeder), and Zombie Bats (burn enemy health as an AoE when mobs are close.) I just keep Zombie Dogs up at the moment because I don't really have any other skill that I'd use, but when I observe their damage output, it is extremely low compared to other attacks.
In case you guys don't have the Beta or just aren't up to date with the current stats, Zombie Dogs do 15% weapon damage each and three are summoned at a time. While a total of 45% weapon damage seems fairly weak compared to most other attacks (which are usually above 100%), try to keep in mind that the dogs are constantly active until they die and it isn't needed to constantly cast them like one would need to do for other attacks.
So, what I'm debating is... is it worth a skill slot to have as a constant background attack? What do you guys think?
PS: All my experience is based off the beta, but you're all free to debate whether you think the skill is worth it in beta or in the actual game; both are cool to hear.
A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
Blizz already said those builds would be viable, but not optimal in later difficulties. Warning: The bar on the word viable is set pretty damn low.
A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
http://www.diablofan...inferno-videos/
No, if you do not really care about the rune effects but more so want them as a 'why-the-hell-not' aspect. Your better off getting them from another skill through the use of summoning them when you kill something that is effected by that spell like Mass Confusion or Circle of Life.
Note: This is assuming that these effects work even without having the zombie dog skill itself active.
Also I would love to see how they scale in the harder difficulties.
That said, if we get to Inferno difficulty and they are being one-shot by basic monsters, I can see them disappearing from people's builds.
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Life Link and Leeching Beasts are a must have for any of my witch doctor builds so ill probably go with the little druggies every time.
-Badgermilk69
You should never really look at the zombie dogs as a source of damage (unless you have sacrifice as well) but as a source of damage mitigation. Damage done to them is damage not done to you, and if you pick up the indigo rune they help absorb even more damage.
I agree with this. WD is very much spell based class, but with my experience doesn't have the damage output that the wizard does. That and the fact that you will run out of Mana here and there, it is important to have space between you and the mobs.
I wouldn't necessarily say they don't have the damage output of a wizard, so much as the damage WD does do, is not burst like a wizards is. Thus the somewhat necessity of the dogs to buy the player time for the dots to do their damage.