Yeah, I see a lot of people putting Haunt on their skill calculators for their build, and my question is why?
Sure, the "500% damage" looks good, but it's OVER the time period, not every second. So early level, sure, it does the most damage per cast (220%?) but it does that over 4 seconds, and doesn't stack.
In that four seconds, I could have spammed fire bomb, or thrown a number spider corpse's, or any other possibilities. Sure, it max's out at 500% weapon damage, but that's over an outlandish 15 seconds. I mean, WHAT?
Even with the runes it doesn't look all that good. I've seen the crimson runestone a lot, because it returns 21% damage as health (I can only assume at max level). That seems great and all, but 21% of 500% is 100%. 100% of weapon damage seems like it COULD be a lot (at the end of the beta, it's only 20-30, I think, so maybe not that great), but again, it's OVER THE TIME! So even if end game weapons do the 500+ damage, that's 500+ hp over 15 seconds. I don't know what kind of hp the WD will have at that point (I think I have close to 200 at lvl 11, so probably a lot more than 500).
And if we look at it at max level in the beta, it's even worse. My weapon damage is only like 16. Let's say you can double that in the beta, so 30. if we use 21% of the ~200% or so damage it does at my level, that's 40% of 30, or a whopping 12 hp. Over the course of 4 seconds. YAY! That might have been so so in D2, but with all the HG's dropped, it's completely stupid, especially with all the cc the WD has at his disposal.
tl,dr - why do people like haunt so much? (Yes, I know it could change in the release, but people seem to like it NOW) When you compare the damage per second, almost every other spell the WD has WAY outpaces it.
I personally think its a horrible spell, I would rather get firebats, spiders, gargantuan, even hex over haunt. It's a waste of a spell slot imho. But, this is beta, what do i know, right? It could be the most amazing spell endgame after launch. Plus, each is his own. Some people like it, let them get it.. Diablo is a game about fun afterall.
I'd use it with the rune that adds a slow effect, for PVP, but beyond that, I completely agree with the original post. The animation is awesome though.
its a fire and forgot, low cost hi range skill which you can use for resources management or crowd control.
Also with an Alabaster rune the damage is not so bad, either.
And sinergies with passives could help setting up nice builds.
It's cheap and it can recast itself which makes it even cheaper. Mana costs aren't really an issue in beta but they will be later on.
It can recast itself? I thought the spirit was around for a set time, and if they guy died in that time, it moved on to another mob?
haunt does NOT recast itself (ive personally tested this). IF it kills the unit BEFORE the duration is up it will jump and finish its duration but it does not reset the duration. so at low lvl is sucks because it doesnt have time to jump really because its like 3-4 seconds long.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"once the pretty hardcore gamers we had testing inferno found it fairly difficult, we then we doubled it" -trolololol jay wilson
"Free damage" at the cost of another spell thats better isn't really free considering you still need to cast it, and it's not guaranteed to kill a monster, the only use i can see this spell for is on a boss fight.
You can cast it three times and then switch over to other spells for damage and let it wither through the mobs your fighting, I think for the fast pace of Diablo 3 you want a faster killing spell but just put an alabaster rune in it (for mobs) put crimson, gold, or obsidian for elite mobs or bosses for the simple fact that you want the 15s DoT so you can spam more spell than just Haunt.
I like haunt and I will most likely use it unlit my brain figures out a better way to kill things but its only my opinion.
Resentful Spirit is damage oriented, in the example raise damage to 103% per second. Not so bad.
Consuming Spirit allow us to recover healt while dealing damage, should work well with multiple targets.
Draining Spirit allow us to recover mana while dealing damage, should work well with multiple targets.
Lingering Spirit may be useful as a mana saving tactical skill, if a monster dies and the spirit linger we can lure a new enemy close to the lingering spirit and save a cast (or cast something else)
Grasping Spirit is a good tactical choice if you need CC, it slows down monsters while dealing damage.
Also having Rush of Essence as a passive could help us managing mana.
its a fire and forgot, low cost hi range skill which you can use for resources management or crowd control.
Also with an Alabaster rune the damage is not so bad, either.
And sinergies with passives could help setting up nice builds.
Consuming Spirit allow us to recover healt while dealing damage, should work well with multiple targets.
Yes, but 16% of 500% is ~75% of weapon damage. Over 15 seconds. that's 6% a second. I suppose it could end up being if you really spam it, but it's not like the WD should be on the front lines and taking lots of damage, so it seems odd.
Lingering Spirit may be useful as a mana saving tactical skill, if a monster dies and the spirit linger we can lure a new enemy close to the lingering spirit and save a cast (or cast something else)
But it's not like it recasts the spell, all it seems to do is increase the chances you'll get through the entire 15 seconds. I think this is perhaps the worst rune option for this skill (granted, better then no rune, but still not so good).
Also having Rush of Essence as a passive could help us managing mana.
With rush of essence, this could be a decent skill, because it essentially becomes a mana generator. However, if you aren't using a lot of the other spirit skills, it seems like you're wasting a limited passive skill slot to improve one skill to an okay skill.
Perhaps, and if you like it, fine. I just think it is way under powered, and I was wondering why a lot of people use it on their builds, frequently without RoE.
Do you have evidence it does not stack? My beta experience says it does (i.e. repeated casting on SK shows a lot more ticks each second).
No, I seem not to. I thought it's tooltip said "does not stack," but I can't seem to find that in either the Dfans skill calc, or the battle.net one. But even if it does stack, it becomes a very slow, if somewhat more powerful, spell. About the only time it seems worthwhile is the occasional boss/elite monster, because they are the only ones that last long enough for the time to make a difference.
Just with my personal experiences with it, I never used it as my main damage spell. If I ever picked it up, I used it in conjunction with GotD and then something like spiders or fire bomb. Such as cast from long range, 2-3 times, GotD when they start to walk towards me, then fire bomb. It's a good spell, but it's more of a DoT.
I personally think its a horrible spell, I would rather get firebats, spiders, gargantuan, even hex over haunt. It's a waste of a spell slot imho. But, this is beta, what do i know, right? It could be the most amazing spell endgame after launch. Plus, each is his own. Some people like it, let them get it.. Diablo is a game about fun afterall.
Resentful Spirit is damage oriented, in the example raise damage to 103% per second. Not so bad.
Eh, 103% damage per second? When you can usually cast 120%+ skills per second? I guess it's okay.
You're missing the point...what's better? Casting that one 120% skill 3 times (360%) or casting Haunt once and then that 120% twice (309% + 240% = 549% over the same duration). The choice is clear, especilly considering the fact that Haunt, in all likelihood, costs less mana than that 120% skill.
Resentful Spirit is damage oriented, in the example raise damage to 103% per second. Not so bad.
Eh, 103% damage per second? When you can usually cast 120%+ skills per second? I guess it's okay.
You're missing the point...what's better? Casting that one 120% skill 3 times (360%) or casting Haunt once and then that 120% twice (309% + 240% = 549% over the same duration). The choice is clear, especilly considering the fact that Haunt, in all likelihood, costs less mana than that 120% skill.
haunt is by far the WD's cheapest skill to cast by a large margin. so yes
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"once the pretty hardcore gamers we had testing inferno found it fairly difficult, we then we doubled it" -trolololol jay wilson
I think it's a skill that doesn't suit your style, not a bad skill itself.
About damage I think Kickin_It explained it better than I can, about mana and healt regen we don't know how it will work end game so we can just use our immagination.
Also you say a WD shouldn't be upfront...why?
I'm going to play mostly single player so I'll be up front and if I do a build with no pets or a pet exploding build that would be even more true.
About CC, Grasp of the death is AoE with CD with a duration of 8 sec, Haunt is single target with no CD lasting 15sec.
Grasp of the death is good against mobs, Haunt allows you to select which target you want slowed and which not, a good thing if you want to isolate and attack a single target.
I cannot appreciate fully Lingering spirit usage either, maybe it's the worst in the game or maybe we'll be pleasantly surprised. Honestly dunno.
Rush of Essence seems a good passive for builds mostly based on Spirit Realm skills and maybe it would be a waste for just one single skill.
We also have to consider:
- what gear we will find: if I need a lot of mana regen and I'm uber lucky and got a Tribal Mask of Infinite mana which replenish 100% max mana each sec I will not need any mana regen skill/rune or passive; while if I got a Stone Knife of Sudden Death which deals 10000000000000 damage to Everything in Sight, I don't need a boost to damage or a powerful skill but a spammable one which allows me a good mana regen ratio.
- Gamestyle: are you a brawler? mid range? long range? with pets?
But, this is beta, what do i know, right? It could be the most amazing spell endgame after launch. Plus, each is his own. Some people like it, let them get it.. Diablo is a game about fun afterall.
I think it's a skill that doesn't suit your style, not a bad skill itself.
About damage I think Kickin_It explained it better than I can, about mana and healt regen we don't know how it will work end game so we can just use our immagination.
Also you say a WD shouldn't be upfront...why?
I'm going to play mostly single player so I'll be up front and if I do a build with no pets or a pet exploding build that would be even more true.
About CC, Grasp of the death is AoE with CD with a duration of 8 sec, Haunt is single target with no CD lasting 15sec.
Grasp of the death is good against mobs, Haunt allows you to select which target you want slowed and which not, a good thing if you want to isolate and attack a single target.
I cannot appreciate fully Lingering spirit usage either, maybe it's the worst in the game or maybe we'll be pleasantly surprised. Honestly dunno.
Rush of Essence seems a good passive for builds mostly based on Spirit Realm skills and maybe it would be a waste for just one single skill.
We also have to consider:
- what gear we will find: if I need a lot of mana regen and I'm uber lucky and got a Tribal Mask of Infinite mana which replenish 100% max mana each sec I will not need any mana regen skill/rune or passive; while if I got a Stone Knife of Sudden Death which deals 10000000000000 damage to Everything in Sight, I don't need a boost to damage or a powerful skill but a spammable one which allows me a good mana regen ratio.
- Gamestyle: are you a brawler? mid range? long range? with pets?
But, this is beta, what do i know, right? It could be the most amazing spell endgame after launch. Plus, each is his own. Some people like it, let them get it.. Diablo is a game about fun afterall.
Just to clarify, the newest version has haunt at only 265% dmg at only a 6 sec duration.
Just to clarify, the newest version has haunt at only 265% dmg at only a 6 sec duration.
if you look at haunt at lvl 1 and at lvl 13 it increases in duration and dmg every level. so before lvl 30 it will be at 500% and 15 seconds like on the skill calc
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"once the pretty hardcore gamers we had testing inferno found it fairly difficult, we then we doubled it" -trolololol jay wilson
Just to clarify, the newest version has haunt at only 265% dmg at only a 6 sec duration.
if you look at haunt at lvl 1 and at lvl 13 it increases in duration and dmg every level. so before lvl 30 it will be at 500% and 15 seconds like on the skill calc
Just to clarify, the newest version has haunt at only 265% dmg at only a 6 sec duration.
if you look at haunt at lvl 1 and at lvl 13 it increases in duration and dmg every level. so before lvl 30 it will be at 500% and 15 seconds like on the skill calc
To add to this, The numbers that are green on the text usually mean they change under specific circumstances (Runes, Levels, Items, Etc)
Sure, the "500% damage" looks good, but it's OVER the time period, not every second. So early level, sure, it does the most damage per cast (220%?) but it does that over 4 seconds, and doesn't stack.
In that four seconds, I could have spammed fire bomb, or thrown a number spider corpse's, or any other possibilities. Sure, it max's out at 500% weapon damage, but that's over an outlandish 15 seconds. I mean, WHAT?
Even with the runes it doesn't look all that good. I've seen the crimson runestone a lot, because it returns 21% damage as health (I can only assume at max level). That seems great and all, but 21% of 500% is 100%. 100% of weapon damage seems like it COULD be a lot (at the end of the beta, it's only 20-30, I think, so maybe not that great), but again, it's OVER THE TIME! So even if end game weapons do the 500+ damage, that's 500+ hp over 15 seconds. I don't know what kind of hp the WD will have at that point (I think I have close to 200 at lvl 11, so probably a lot more than 500).
And if we look at it at max level in the beta, it's even worse. My weapon damage is only like 16. Let's say you can double that in the beta, so 30. if we use 21% of the ~200% or so damage it does at my level, that's 40% of 30, or a whopping 12 hp. Over the course of 4 seconds. YAY! That might have been so so in D2, but with all the HG's dropped, it's completely stupid, especially with all the cc the WD has at his disposal.
tl,dr - why do people like haunt so much? (Yes, I know it could change in the release, but people seem to like it NOW) When you compare the damage per second, almost every other spell the WD has WAY outpaces it.
It can recast itself? I thought the spirit was around for a set time, and if they guy died in that time, it moved on to another mob?
Doomwolf (Male Demon Hunter)
Kainé (Female Monk) - Nier Reference
Also with an Alabaster rune the damage is not so bad, either.
And sinergies with passives could help setting up nice builds.
haunt does NOT recast itself (ive personally tested this). IF it kills the unit BEFORE the duration is up it will jump and finish its duration but it does not reset the duration. so at low lvl is sucks because it doesnt have time to jump really because its like 3-4 seconds long.
Doomwolf (Male Demon Hunter)
Kainé (Female Monk) - Nier Reference
I like haunt and I will most likely use it unlit my brain figures out a better way to kill things but its only my opinion.
Resentful Spirit is damage oriented, in the example raise damage to 103% per second. Not so bad.
Consuming Spirit allow us to recover healt while dealing damage, should work well with multiple targets.
Draining Spirit allow us to recover mana while dealing damage, should work well with multiple targets.
Lingering Spirit may be useful as a mana saving tactical skill, if a monster dies and the spirit linger we can lure a new enemy close to the lingering spirit and save a cast (or cast something else)
Grasping Spirit is a good tactical choice if you need CC, it slows down monsters while dealing damage.
Also having Rush of Essence as a passive could help us managing mana.
All in all it seems a good skill to me.
My thoughts aswell.
Yes, but 16% of 500% is ~75% of weapon damage. Over 15 seconds. that's 6% a second. I suppose it could end up being if you really spam it, but it's not like the WD should be on the front lines and taking lots of damage, so it seems odd.
21 mana per second, 15 seconds, a total of 315. It costs 175, so you get back 140 mana. Considering how fast he regens mana anyway...
But it's not like it recasts the spell, all it seems to do is increase the chances you'll get through the entire 15 seconds. I think this is perhaps the worst rune option for this skill (granted, better then no rune, but still not so good).
Agreed. However, I feel he has other, better CC spells (Grasp of the dead, his various pets).
With rush of essence, this could be a decent skill, because it essentially becomes a mana generator. However, if you aren't using a lot of the other spirit skills, it seems like you're wasting a limited passive skill slot to improve one skill to an okay skill.
Perhaps, and if you like it, fine. I just think it is way under powered, and I was wondering why a lot of people use it on their builds, frequently without RoE.
No, I seem not to. I thought it's tooltip said "does not stack," but I can't seem to find that in either the Dfans skill calc, or the battle.net one. But even if it does stack, it becomes a very slow, if somewhat more powerful, spell. About the only time it seems worthwhile is the occasional boss/elite monster, because they are the only ones that last long enough for the time to make a difference.
+1 man, good post!
:: Enkeria [Twitter / Twitch / Website / Tattoos]
You're missing the point...what's better? Casting that one 120% skill 3 times (360%) or casting Haunt once and then that 120% twice (309% + 240% = 549% over the same duration). The choice is clear, especilly considering the fact that Haunt, in all likelihood, costs less mana than that 120% skill.
haunt is by far the WD's cheapest skill to cast by a large margin. so yes
I think it's a skill that doesn't suit your style, not a bad skill itself.
About damage I think Kickin_It explained it better than I can, about mana and healt regen we don't know how it will work end game so we can just use our immagination.
Also you say a WD shouldn't be upfront...why?
I'm going to play mostly single player so I'll be up front and if I do a build with no pets or a pet exploding build that would be even more true.
About CC, Grasp of the death is AoE with CD with a duration of 8 sec, Haunt is single target with no CD lasting 15sec.
Grasp of the death is good against mobs, Haunt allows you to select which target you want slowed and which not, a good thing if you want to isolate and attack a single target.
I cannot appreciate fully Lingering spirit usage either, maybe it's the worst in the game or maybe we'll be pleasantly surprised. Honestly dunno.
Rush of Essence seems a good passive for builds mostly based on Spirit Realm skills and maybe it would be a waste for just one single skill.
We also have to consider:
- what gear we will find: if I need a lot of mana regen and I'm uber lucky and got a Tribal Mask of Infinite mana which replenish 100% max mana each sec I will not need any mana regen skill/rune or passive; while if I got a Stone Knife of Sudden Death which deals 10000000000000 damage to Everything in Sight, I don't need a boost to damage or a powerful skill but a spammable one which allows me a good mana regen ratio.
- Gamestyle: are you a brawler? mid range? long range? with pets?
And this:
Just to clarify, the newest version has haunt at only 265% dmg at only a 6 sec duration.
if you look at haunt at lvl 1 and at lvl 13 it increases in duration and dmg every level. so before lvl 30 it will be at 500% and 15 seconds like on the skill calc
orly? I was unaware, nvm =D
To add to this, The numbers that are green on the text usually mean they change under specific circumstances (Runes, Levels, Items, Etc)
Doomwolf (Male Demon Hunter)
Kainé (Female Monk) - Nier Reference