The thing is I don?t get why you are jumping to the African Witch Doctor. As you said they really are just medicine men? which you will see throughout history druids were much the same thing. As for the Witch Doctor I see them as a ?Voodoo Witch Doctor? more than anything from core Africa. African medicine men were not known for being occult and using Zombies?(Although were believed to use devils to help cure disease) Unlike the Voodoo Witch Doctors of old. Truthfully, I think you are looking for thoughtful discussion about a subject that has no bearing. Nothing in the Witch doctor in spells or they way they talk (Game wise) give any hint to being African Medicine men to me. I would suggest picking your own brain on why you jumped to the African Medicine men ?Sangomas? so quickly. Truthfully they consider being called witch doctor an insult as they also view witch doctor to be linked to the Hatian Voodoo which is as much Roman Christianity as it is Western African beliefs. The actual term of Witch Doctor is ?a person in some societies who attempts to cure sickness and to exorcise evil spirits by the use of magic.? So looking at it that way. Witch Doctor fits the game perfectly with no insult into any particuliar sect.
Im a christian, i know what goes on in africa i have heard about it many times, the truth is that witch doctors are a very small problem in africa, people deal with having there loved ones slaughtered and stolen by guerillas that witch doctors dont realy get a say in what happens.
I got bored at reading what people were saying but i have this to ask of you Tavan, do you know of any witch doctors that live on this earth that can cast level 5 zombie wall???
Let me answer that for you..... NO!
So therefore i conclude that the witch doctor from diablo is purely fictional and, apart from the name, represents no connection to the witch doctors of today.
Wait....This is where you draw the line? All the gore, mutilation of the human body, torture and the millions of other things you could name about this game were fine for you? But the witch doctor broke the camel's back ahy?
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"I want to say something but I'll keep it to myself I guess and leave this useless post behind to make you aware that there WAS something... "
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
Now, I wonder how the discussions about Nazi and Wolfenstein-like games went. It must have been pretty ugly.
Its a game. There have been game where you act as a terrorist - its never so specific and this game is not as specific either.
This is reacting on things that are not worth reacting for. Be it religious or whatever, god damnit these discussions are stupid, and I have seen them all over. And yes, its stupid. Get over it, asking for change is even sadder. It just proves, to me, that you do not seriously take this "issue" at heart and all you want is to remove something you do not like from the game, by using some big ass excuses.
If you are not happy about their decisions to such a level, then don't support the game, and don't buy it.
In all honesty, if people can't see the difference between a fictional character in a game that summons zombies and spews swarms of flies all over the place, and a real-world witch doctor, then we've got far greater problems than nominal ones. What's sad is, the only reason your concern could be a valid one is due to the profound amounts of ignorance that have plagued the human population and will allow a class name in a game to shape their view on what that is in real life. That's a statement, and not a good one, for the state of education today. However, there's no reason to make something as silly as a word completely taboo just because of unfortunate events that have taken place in the past, or the present. It's not disrespect, it's just a word. At least, it is to me. On the subject of words: People do the craziest thing to words and language. They will shun certain words and make them bad to say just because of unfortunate events in the past. The concept of profanity makes me laugh, too. To me, people saying f*ck is just as "bad" (in the uptight crazy christian sense) as saying fudge to sound clean. It honestly baffles me, because to me words are all about context. I went a bit into rambling on that one but you know what I mean, I hope.
TL;DR: It's ridiculous to get all wound up over words!
You might want to properly format that wall-of-text before you thrown down the TL;DR gauntlet. Not to mention that your entire response contradicts your final statement.
I understand the argument you're trying to make about it being insensitive based on modern problems but Diablo, much like other works of fiction is not based on modern ideas.
Diablo is based around traditional archetypes, most of which have been consistently depicted in various works of fiction for decades and even centuries. Heck, the voodoo/witchdoctor stuff has even been featured on prime time tv shows like Bones and major Hollywood Movies like Live And Let Die(one of the James Bond films).
Fiction often looks towards history and prior works of fiction for inspiration but it doesn't need to scrutinized based on issues related to its intial inspiration. Just my two cents.
Quote from "SFJake" »
Its a game.
I think that pretty much sums it up, I guess I could have just left it there.
Alright Tavan, so I can see your point, but I am going to also repeat the almighty catch phrase: "Diablo is just a game." The witch doctor class is based off of a stereotypical tribal figure. If you ask someone what a Witch Doctor is, many responses would probably include the following words : voodoo, tribe, african, scary.
When someone says "Witch Doctor", I don't think of its real life interpretation, I think about the Hollywood Witch Doctor, often put in fantasy games. Certain Hollywood firgues come to mind, Baron Samedi in particular. Witch Doctors are steriotypically black, wear big masks or scary face paint, use voodoo dolls, and all that jazz. Its not about the literal translation of the term, its about the fiction representation of the Witch Doctor as Hollywood has shown it to us for years. That is where this class comes from, and I am sure Blizzard by no means intend to insult anybody. They just want to introduce to us a new and interesting Diablo class of tribal descent that relies on black magic and summoning to do its biddings. In all honestly, I find that quite awesome, but I am mature enough to differentiate the fantasy world from the real world.
I do see where you are coming from with people taking things out of context though. I have heard terrible stories of kids who have "killed themselves to be with the WoW gods they worship" and asians burning themselves to death pretending to by wizards and stuff. I mean, at least it isn't the people that killed people because they didn't like Twilight, thats one was a little rough XD.
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There are no stupid questions, just a bunch of inquisitive idiots.
witch doctor has been a roller coaster for me, first its something new yayy...then its like the necro....but i read on the main page about summoning a zombie that spits out spiders....my mind has changed YET AGAIN haha
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:cool:i dont know how to make banners an such so ill put quotes
god grant me the serenity,
to accept the things i cannot change, courage to change the things i can and wisdom to know the difference
the witch doctor is definately gonna be the first class i play as.
i too loved the necro and am distraught at his all to sudden disappearence
Fear not, fellow Necromancer friend! All hope is not lost yet!
*ahem* Sorry, I've had this strange urge to go to the King Richard's Faire.
Anyway, from what I hear, the disappearance of the Necromancer as a playable character is related to the storyline, and the possibility of the best necromancer of all time to appear in game: Zayl. Again, it's all speculation, but here's for hoping.
Also, I think the Priests of Rathma might make an appearence too. *shrug*
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------------------------------------------- Those who stand for nothing will fall for anything.
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I feel like I'm on the same page with everyone else when I say that I will be playing the WD first for the gameplay, not for the feel/look. I just feel he will have a more dynamic, finesse-based gameplay, which is what I like.
Looking pretty good, Imo kinda looks like a revamped necro, but then again I absolutely LOVE necromancers. So in the end its could be good or bad. Zombie wall looks too sick, would definately enjoy that over my bonewall.
Am I the only one perplexed by what little info we have on the WD considering he was announced at the same time as D3 itself. We know almost no lore and he has fewer skills than the barb and wiz.
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Am I the only one perplexed by what little info we have on the WD considering he was announced at the same time as D3 itself. We know almost no lore and he has fewer skills than the barb and wiz.
I think Blizzard themselves aren't so sure where to go and what to do with the WD... I wont be surprised if we will see a complete overhaul of the WD before the actual release.
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As for the Witch Doctor I see them as a ?Voodoo Witch Doctor? more than anything from core Africa. African medicine men were not known for being occult and using Zombies?(Although were believed to use devils to help cure disease) Unlike the Voodoo Witch Doctors of old. Truthfully, I think you are looking for thoughtful discussion about a subject that has no bearing. Nothing in the Witch doctor in spells or they way they talk (Game wise) give any hint to being African Medicine men to me. I would suggest picking your own brain on why you jumped to the African Medicine men ?Sangomas? so quickly. Truthfully they consider being called witch doctor an insult as they also view witch doctor to be linked to the Hatian Voodoo which is as much Roman Christianity as it is Western African beliefs. The actual term of Witch Doctor is ?a person in some societies who attempts to cure sickness and to exorcise evil spirits by the use of magic.?
So looking at it that way. Witch Doctor fits the game perfectly with no insult into any particuliar sect.
I got bored at reading what people were saying but i have this to ask of you Tavan, do you know of any witch doctors that live on this earth that can cast level 5 zombie wall???
Let me answer that for you..... NO!
So therefore i conclude that the witch doctor from diablo is purely fictional and, apart from the name, represents no connection to the witch doctors of today.
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
Its a game. There have been game where you act as a terrorist - its never so specific and this game is not as specific either.
This is reacting on things that are not worth reacting for. Be it religious or whatever, god damnit these discussions are stupid, and I have seen them all over. And yes, its stupid. Get over it, asking for change is even sadder. It just proves, to me, that you do not seriously take this "issue" at heart and all you want is to remove something you do not like from the game, by using some big ass excuses.
If you are not happy about their decisions to such a level, then don't support the game, and don't buy it.
TL;DR: It's ridiculous to get all wound up over words!
Just sayin'.
Diablo is based around traditional archetypes, most of which have been consistently depicted in various works of fiction for decades and even centuries. Heck, the voodoo/witchdoctor stuff has even been featured on prime time tv shows like Bones and major Hollywood Movies like Live And Let Die(one of the James Bond films).
Fiction often looks towards history and prior works of fiction for inspiration but it doesn't need to scrutinized based on issues related to its intial inspiration. Just my two cents.
I think that pretty much sums it up, I guess I could have just left it there.
Signature and avatar courtesy of Indestructible.
I'm merging this with the Witch Doctor discussion thread that's stickied. Please do not create another duplicate thread.
When someone says "Witch Doctor", I don't think of its real life interpretation, I think about the Hollywood Witch Doctor, often put in fantasy games. Certain Hollywood firgues come to mind, Baron Samedi in particular. Witch Doctors are steriotypically black, wear big masks or scary face paint, use voodoo dolls, and all that jazz. Its not about the literal translation of the term, its about the fiction representation of the Witch Doctor as Hollywood has shown it to us for years. That is where this class comes from, and I am sure Blizzard by no means intend to insult anybody. They just want to introduce to us a new and interesting Diablo class of tribal descent that relies on black magic and summoning to do its biddings. In all honestly, I find that quite awesome, but I am mature enough to differentiate the fantasy world from the real world.
I do see where you are coming from with people taking things out of context though. I have heard terrible stories of kids who have "killed themselves to be with the WoW gods they worship" and asians burning themselves to death pretending to by wizards and stuff. I mean, at least it isn't the people that killed people because they didn't like Twilight, thats one was a little rough XD.
god grant me the serenity,
to accept the things i cannot change, courage to change the things i can and wisdom to know the difference
i too loved the necro and am distraught at his all to sudden disappearence
To Rule The Land, The Kingdom,
And We Shall Take Our Place,
This Time Forever.
--Devastator--
Anyone who says anything is possible
never tried to slam a revolving door :cool:
Fear not, fellow Necromancer friend! All hope is not lost yet!
*ahem* Sorry, I've had this strange urge to go to the King Richard's Faire.
Anyway, from what I hear, the disappearance of the Necromancer as a playable character is related to the storyline, and the possibility of the best necromancer of all time to appear in game: Zayl. Again, it's all speculation, but here's for hoping.
Also, I think the Priests of Rathma might make an appearence too. *shrug*
-------------------------------------------
Those who stand for nothing will fall for anything.
-------------------------------------------
I know the conversation is done. but i just cant let this stand.
Historians are students of History and Anthropology. Historians do NOT believe in Evil. Evil does not exist.
Find any Diablo news? Contact me or anyone else on the News team
I think Blizzard themselves aren't so sure where to go and what to do with the WD... I wont be surprised if we will see a complete overhaul of the WD before the actual release.