Can't we just call it off and say that the Witch Doctor is different enough so there's a slim chance for the Necromancer to make an appearance in future expanion packs
Thats what I said.
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There are no stupid questions, just a bunch of inquisitive idiots.
It's okay. The WD replacing the Necromancer, is quite fine for me. It's like falling in love again, but deep inside, your ex will always have a special place in your heart.
The Witch Doctor is not a Necromancer, he's a Witch Doctor: A jungle dweller, who relies on ancient tribal magics and powers that originate from deep in the jungles. The Necromancer is a darker, deathlier character who uses the dead and undead to do his bidding, including fighting and summoning. He's very different, being more towards the macabre. The Witch Doctor is just that: a Witch Doctor. He's like the spooky old man living in the forest, using nature for his poisons and ancient tribal rituals for his spells. Two very different classes, if you ask me. I personally love the fact that all the classes are new in Diablo 3, except the Barbarian. That's a whole different story. The next unheard-of class should be different and new as well. Out with the old, and in in with the new.
As for the Barbarian returning, it makes great sense: It's been many years since the destruction of his homeland, and that battle was the greatest of all battles because of the Worldstone and the power it held inside of it. The Barbarian has returned to avenge his dead comrades and the evil that destroyed his home, so bringing him back into the picture is an excellent move by Blizzard I think.
As for the other classes, I say bring the new ones in! Get some diversity in there, make them cool and exciting, make them different from eachother, and get some cool new spells in there at the same time as well. I can't wait for the last class, I'm hoping it will be something wild and new.
Overall i think that the WD and Necro are different in gameplay aspects and also alike, so that only merits one point that there skills/techniques are unique only to there world and existence
Let me start with the fact that Blizzard has stated that the witch doctor is different enough to where they could still add the necro IF they decide to.
I personally do not want the necro added in addition to the WD
1. Lore
2. Looks
3. Play
Lore -
the necro was already like 100 yrs old in D2. 20 years later, he is like what? 200 now (j.k. I know 100 + 20 = 187). I think decard should be the only really, really, really old fart.
Actually the cult of Rathma is old, the person you playing is in his mid twenties. The only reason he looks as old as Decard Cain is because necromancers study in crypts and such, and barely eat, resulting in a man or woman who looks skeletal and looks really old due to little or no exposure to the outside world.
Looks -
the necro was an old, unmuscular, creepy looking guy. The WD is an old, unmuscular, creepy looking guy. ? Basically the same except the WD Has a tan.
As explained above, he is not old and wasn't entirely muscular. Look at Zayl, he is young, around 27, has some muscle built into him, and moves pretty damn quick for an "old" guy.
Play -
simply put, IMO, they play the same.
Summons=summons (they only possible difference is strength vs. # like the Druid and necro in D2.
Poison=poison
curses vs. Horrify/confuse ( of course they have different effects but the principle is the same. No actual damage but makes killing easier.)
bone vs. Fire (bone was used primarily as ranged attacks. Fire is used for ranged, at least with the flame skull. Bone wall replaced by zombie wall)
I just don't see enough differences between the two. I think these two are even more similar than the sorceress and the wizard. I personally have no problem playing the WD as replacement for the necro.
Your thoughts?
Witch Doctor uses powders and elixirs to affect his enemies, calls upon zombies to aid him (Isn't that kind of a given for witch doctors?), and overall is basically a creepy druid.
Necromancers are important to the story as they protect the Balance. They tread the line between life and death. They rely on spirits for almost all of their skills, with a couple coming from plant species found in their native jungle home. To get a better idea on how Necromancers work in comparison to the Witch Doctor, read up on the lore and you will see that the two are very different.
Necromancers are an ancient order to protect and uphold the balance of Sanctuary. Witch Doctors are from tribes that wage holy wars against each other to obtain sacrifices for their rituals. And to tell you the truth, I think the Witch Doctor was based off the African Jungle Tribes. Just please do some research before you go off like that about two very different classes.
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Just as the Scorpion hunts...
Silently Lurking...
"Nothing is True. Everything is Permitted." ~ Ezio Auditore de Firenze
Clearly that post made you look like at least (1/2) an imbecile.
The OP compared bone wall with wall of zombies. Can you even compare the 2? You expect a wall of zombies to just block your way and not have an offensive quality?
Now for some fun-
The OP compared 1 WHOLE skill (curse) tree of the necro to like...1 skill of the WD.
The barb could summon a sort of totem to scare enemies. HEY HE IS THE SAME AS THE NECRO!!!
BARB= NECRO.
Compared 1 WHOLE skill tree for offensive bone spells to like...1 skill of the WD.
The sorceress could throw firebolts at enemies. HEY SHE IS THE SAME AS THE NECRO!!!
SORC= NECRO
Compared summons.
The druid could summon animals. HEY HE IS THE SAME AS THE NECRO!!!
DRUID=NECRO
Now for some extra fun-
Amazon could summon a warrior. Assassin could do the same.
AMAZON=ASSASSIN.
AMAZING!!! If we follow the OP's logic and yours paroxysm, we are like-
BARB=NECRO=DRUID=SORC=AMAZON=ASSASSIN=ALL CHARS THAT WERE EVER CREATED IN ARPGS.
Edit- Scyber usually puts forward very high quality threads. Pretty unusual he came up with such a garbage far-fetched theory on why he thinks WD is the same as the Necro. Guess all of his threads can't be winners. He simply doesn't want to see any more old chars return, which is fair enough. However he should just have come up with a better story than this rotten one here.
First off, I made this thread almost a year ago. Secondly, I mainly made it for a.) to stir up conversation during a activity lull, b.) as a rebuttal to everyone saying that the Necro has to be in D3 (which I still don't believe nor want).
Anyway...
Looking at the characters from a game developers point-of-view, the characters have more in common then they don't and not just because they are summoning/pet classes.
1. Look wise - regardless of how old the necro actually is, he looks old. From a game designer stand point, an old character is an old character. He is not a young girl, muscular man, average joe, he looks like an old man. The WD is an old man. Blizzard has stated they want each character to look and be unique. One old character is enough.
2. Game mechanics - first the obvious, yes they are both summoners/pet classes. One change has been made, the summons of the WD seem to be more like the summons of the druid rather than the army of the necro. However, both have poison and poison skills. both have summons. the bone wall and zombie wall are very similar from a game designer view. a lot of the WD's fire skills act similar to the necro's bone skills (single target projectile, multiple target projectile).
Again, I have nothing against the Necro, he was my second favorite class after the druid. I just do not want old characters back in the new game. The necro would need some major changes to be different enough to be in the game but at the same time, Blizzard said that they do not want to change him.
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You know what, now that I think about it...there might be something to that 'old' argument.
Oh wait no. It's actually as ridiculous as the other ideas.
Did you ever notice how the Amazon got long hair??? Guess what? The wizard got long hair too..
Oh noes...how in the world are we going to distinguish them now? They should have put only one char with long hair you know, to make them unique.
The necro is a pale white guy. The WD is a black guy. And you get stuck on how they both look old. How tragic.
The game mechanics argument is just as stupid really. Just go to the wiki and compare the skills of two very different archetypes (barb and necro) and you'll find yourself with enough similar skills to get another crazy theory going.
Sorry bud. This is really and easily one of your worst ideas. I am amazed to see you continue defending it. It's about as credible as the conspiracy theories surrounding the spaghetti monster.
The game mechanics argument is just as stupid really. Just go to the wiki and compare the skills of two very different archetypes (barb and necro) and you'll find yourself with enough similar skills to get another crazy theory going.
yeaaaah, I guess bash would be raise skeleton?
war cry would be iron maiden?
Bone teeth would be whirl wind?
il give you the benefit of the doubt on this one, bone armor = iron skin ?
yeah your right, the similarities just start popping out of the wood work, you are right, and we are wrong.
Not very bright are you? Let me help you out because it is pretty obvious you hardly played D2 or maybe you are just dumb for writing such a post.
Now I'll follow the same loose (and ridiculous) 'logic' from the OP and yours paroxysm and I'll show you how the Barb and the Necro are exactly (lol) the same.
Skill-
Barb: Battle cry- lowers defence of enemies
Necro: amplify damage- lowers defence of enemies
Barb: warcry- area of effect skill that damages enemies
Necro: poison nova- area of effect skill that damages enemies
Barb: Battle orders- increase life of party member
Necro- golem and skeleton mastery- increase life of summons
Barb: double throw- ranged attack
Necro: Teeth or any bone spell you want- ranged attack
Obviously since you know(hopefully) the skills in details, it is easy to get nit picky. But this is about as solid as the OP's claims, maybe even much more.
Now let's cut the crap and get down to business here-
*The Scyber claimed that the two have the same feel. A guy popped up earlier in the thread and said someone who actually played the WD at blizzcon found they were not similar at all.
*Scyber just embarassed himself by comparing their lores which had nothing common at all. Hell he could have said all the chars in D2 had exactly the same background story because they are all based in sanctuary.
*He went on to say they looked both old, compromising their uniqueness. This is as unbelievably stupid as saying, these 2 chars are EXACTLY the same BECAUSE they have 2 arms, 2 legs and a pair of balls.
*He claimed their skills looked similar which as STUPID as saying the barb and necro are exactly the same and which I showed you earlier on in the post. He was basically comparing 2 skills because they both had the name 'wall' in them. Couldn't see the difference between a mongrel and a skeleton. Couldn't see the difference between something like bonespear and fireblast(or was it firebomb) and just reduced them to the concept of projectile, ranged attacks.
The final proof that you and Scyber are unnecessarily ridiculing yourselves is that Blizz themselves said the 2 chars were not alike. Imagine that- the developers themselves are saying that. Of course they could be wrong, but the way you people are going about it makes this whole thread a joke at best.
In case you think I am getting annoyed for nothing let me give a sweet little recap of this thread.
Let us just move aside the fact Scyber was casually poking fun at my favorite D2 char(comparing him to an old fart and what not). I mean if I like the Necro, people definitely got the right to dislike/hate him. I can live through that. That nice story of necro being his second favorite char sounds like bullshit to me. Why? He seriously and completely lacked all sense objectivity in working out his link between the Necro and WD.
Then he goes to invent reasons why there is now no longer any place for the necro in d3. Yep the actual word here is 'invent'. Now anybody is allowed to speculate. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. And so, people come in the thread and post structured and detailed arguments of why the OP is too vague and inaccurate. People actually having played gave feedback on how the class differed.
What does Scyber do? Well he just ignores them- jumps from his opinion of how he sees the 2 would feel the same in gameplay when he has actually never played the WD to facts on how blizz said they did not have a strong desire to bring any old chars back.
Seriously, what was his point at this point? Is there no place because the 2 are similar or is it because necro is a char from D2 or is it just because he doesn't want to see the char again? He blatantly ignored the fact that blizz said these 2 were not alike and that they would consider bringing in the necro.
He was just going all over the place to try to rationalize his fantasy(that is all it is really). His latest post told of a game developer's point of view. The fact that he was getting desperate...is the 'old' argument which is just hilariously stupid.
Then you my good sir, just jump in the thread and announce that everybody disagreeing with the OP are fools.
Skills - yes, a lot of characters have skills that act similar but...
Let's start with the big ones. First is the undead concept. Any specific skills aside, both characters have skills dealing with the raising of the undead. One has skeletons while the other has zombies. Yes, those are different but they are both undead creatures. Name any other diablo character who deals in the resurrection of the undead. Second is poison. Again, any specific skills aside, both classes deal with poison. Blizzard has said they want each character to be very unique on skill sets. Two classes with poison does not agree with this. No other class has overlapping damage types (other than the wizard's 1-2 fire skills).
Now on with the specifics
Necro - bonewall
WD - Wall of zombies
The wall of zombies is simply an upgrade to bonewall with the addition of damage. No other class has this type of ability.
Necro - Summon skeleton
WD - summon zombie dog.
Both raise the undead to fight along with you.
Necro - skeleton mastery
WD - Ferocity
Both increase the life/dmg of your zombies/skeletons
Necro - Poison explosion
WD - Spider corpse
Both release a poisonous attack form a dead corpse
Necro - terror
WD - horrify
Both cause your enemy to flee
Necro - life tap
WD - Soul harvest
Bot hsteal life from attacked enemies, the only difference is that soul harvest is an active damaging skill with the life tap
Necro - amplify dmg
WD - Spirit sense
Both are skills to increase damage inflicted upon monsters
Necro - Confuse
WD - Mass confusion
Both cause the enemy to attack themselves
Necro - Bone spirit
WD - Haunt
Both send out a projectile that finds its target. no need to aim.
Necro - corpse explosion
WD - Sacrifice
Both cause a target to explode causing addition damage. The difference is corpse or own pets but no other class has a skill to select a target to explode for additional damage.
Necro - bone prison
WD - Grasp of the dead
Both hold an enemy in place
Ok, that is 11 direct skills above the fact that the two classes share two similar core mechanics. Not to mention other similarities like poison nova to acid cloud (both poison AoE) or golems to gargantuan (both tank type summons) and the necro's curses to the WD' hexes. While other classes may have single target projectiles, AoE, summons, or debuuf/buff skills, The similarities are obvious. They have over a third of the same skills as well as two of the same core mechanics. Blizzard said they want each character to be unique, how is a third of their skills the same with two core mechanics different enough to make them unique. I am not saying they won't play differently but they are very similar.
Also, please stop referring to my first post, it was made almost a year ago and I have admitted to the changes. If you would like to read some posts on better ideas please feel free to read the rest of this thread.
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Dang....wow. I just showed you the core mechanics shared by the barb and necro, 2 completely different archetypes. I would probably find so many more similarities between the necro and another char. I seriously could, but why the fuck would I bother when you are not even reading the posts? You have kept the same shitty attitude throughout the whole thread(yes i did read the whole thread), constantly ignoring everyone's posts that showed you how wrong and weak your arguments were.
And just lol at your new poison garbage argument. Poison is just a freaking element in D3. Just like fire and you saved yourself from complete embarrassment by actually remembering 2 people could already use fire in the game.
Oh also monk can explode enemies. Oh noes, the WD can explode stuff too. That's finished. D3 chars are no longer unique. PANIC!!!!!
Seriously dude, stop embarrassing yourself. Pointless to show you reason since you've just completely closed your mind to any.
If ever you feel like posting again, listen you Samuel Jackson's advice for maybe a new take on the matter. Otherwise just drop it really.
Edit- Also forgot to tell you- you are laboring under the delusion that should the Necro come back, he'll be exactly the same as in D2. Big mistake. So all of your silly comparisons could actually be even more pointless.
I am not saying that there are not similarities between the Necro and other characters. Yes both the necro and the barb have buff/debuff skills. However, you only mentioned 4 skills of that skill type and the one about ranged attacks. I compared 11 skills all that are the same going beyond one skill type and taking some form all three trees of both classes.
As for the poison comment, Blizzard has said that they plan on having each element only covered by one character. The fire damage of the Wizard in two skills is the only exception to this. As far as exploding palm, the actual damage in not fire, it is holy/magic.
As far as being closed minded, I have changed my thought on a lot of subjects which is why I said not to refer to the OP because my thoughts have changed so much. Most of your reasonings to disagree with me are ideas form the OP and not any post that I have made recently. Your main rebuttal to a recent post was my archetype skills debate in which you proved me wrong. In which case, I noted 11 specific skills that are the same. People disagreed with me about teh old look of both characters and so I have dropped this reasoning. I am open to any thoughts and discussion but I have been able to prove counterpoints to any argument so far. Most people have said there are similarities between all classes but few have tried to show the distinction between the Necro and the WD which is my concern. I admit there are similarities between all of the classes but the Necro and WD just share so much more.
As for the many different reasons why they should not add the necro, that just strengthens my own opinion I why they should not and not a fault in my reasoning. Having multiple reasoning for the same idea strengthens that fact not weakens it. Many different ideas are also used for the equaling amount of ideas to say otherwise.
Lastly, Blizzard said that the main reason why they chose not to add the Necro initially is that they only wanted to add old characters if they could change it enough to be new like the Barb. They said that the necro was practically perfect and they would not want to change him, if/when they do add him.
If you can disprove the similarities between the necro and the WD, I ask you to show me. However, saying the necro is the same as other attributes of other classes does not disprove the WD-necro connection. I have given ample proof with 11/30 skills being the same and two core mechanics (not just summon and buff/debuff generics) on how they are the same. Blizzard has stated the element uniqueness per character. Blizzard has stated they would not change him if added.
If you can explain how a third of their skills being the same and two of their mechanics being the same (excluding the poison elemental damage) being the same is different enough to include him then please do so. Just do not defend the fact by showing even more commonalities of the necro class with others further discouraging reason to have him.
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I said it- your similarities are weak. Yep they are. The only comparable one I see is mass confusion. Horrify is different from Necro's terrify. Go watch the gameplay if you are unsure. And also your similarities are extremely broad. If I begin to break them down one by one, I can predict with 100% certainty that you would have said I am being nit picky about the details. Seriously- zombie wall is the same as bone wall but with damage.
How about shit like- bash is the same as firebomb except you need to be close.
I told you- you are embarrassing yourself.
You would have had better luck with the druid really.
The reason why I was comparing the necro with others is to show you how easy it was to make those 'supposed' links that you worked hard to imagine. But of course you failed to see the point.
Now tell me, which part of blizz's ranting on how they were working on the WD and still leaving place for the Nekro, did not get into your head?
And which part where they said that the 2 classes were not alike didn't you understand?
Like I said if Necro returns he won't be exactly like in D2. And 'almost perfect' doesn't mean he cannot be modified. Just cannot be improved significantly. But who cares if thousands are able to have fun playing with him?
A third of the skills? Lol. Ill just assume you got all of them nailed down just for the sake of showing you something.
If you are having trouble with the maths, I'll do this complex bit of calculation for you- that leaves 2/3 of skills for WD... Imagine that...?
Supposing they are feeling damn lazy with the necro and supposing they'll be bringing him back, they could actually leave 2/3 of him INTACT!!! But then again that's blizz we are talking about, they'll revamp the char, I am pretty sure of it and with your level of imagination Scyber I am sure you can see a dozen variations and possibilities for each of the Necro's skill.
Too complex to understand maybe?
Your feeble comparisons are a complete fail. Neither me nor blizz sees the point that you are desperately trying to make because you do not want to see the necro in D3.
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Thats what I said.
IN DIABLO 3.
D3 =/= D3 expansion. And they can change their minds as they did many times in many ocasions.
As for the Barbarian returning, it makes great sense: It's been many years since the destruction of his homeland, and that battle was the greatest of all battles because of the Worldstone and the power it held inside of it. The Barbarian has returned to avenge his dead comrades and the evil that destroyed his home, so bringing him back into the picture is an excellent move by Blizzard I think.
As for the other classes, I say bring the new ones in! Get some diversity in there, make them cool and exciting, make them different from eachother, and get some cool new spells in there at the same time as well. I can't wait for the last class, I'm hoping it will be something wild and new.
Actually the cult of Rathma is old, the person you playing is in his mid twenties. The only reason he looks as old as Decard Cain is because necromancers study in crypts and such, and barely eat, resulting in a man or woman who looks skeletal and looks really old due to little or no exposure to the outside world.
As explained above, he is not old and wasn't entirely muscular. Look at Zayl, he is young, around 27, has some muscle built into him, and moves pretty damn quick for an "old" guy.
Witch Doctor uses powders and elixirs to affect his enemies, calls upon zombies to aid him (Isn't that kind of a given for witch doctors?), and overall is basically a creepy druid.
Necromancers are important to the story as they protect the Balance. They tread the line between life and death. They rely on spirits for almost all of their skills, with a couple coming from plant species found in their native jungle home. To get a better idea on how Necromancers work in comparison to the Witch Doctor, read up on the lore and you will see that the two are very different.
Necromancers are an ancient order to protect and uphold the balance of Sanctuary. Witch Doctors are from tribes that wage holy wars against each other to obtain sacrifices for their rituals. And to tell you the truth, I think the Witch Doctor was based off the African Jungle Tribes. Just please do some research before you go off like that about two very different classes.
and he had bash, whirl wind, leap attack, and war cries, some fools would think war lord does not equal barbarian, so what can you do?
Wd clearly atleast 1/2 = necro
The OP compared bone wall with wall of zombies. Can you even compare the 2? You expect a wall of zombies to just block your way and not have an offensive quality?
Now for some fun-
The OP compared 1 WHOLE skill (curse) tree of the necro to like...1 skill of the WD.
The barb could summon a sort of totem to scare enemies. HEY HE IS THE SAME AS THE NECRO!!!
BARB= NECRO.
Compared 1 WHOLE skill tree for offensive bone spells to like...1 skill of the WD.
The sorceress could throw firebolts at enemies. HEY SHE IS THE SAME AS THE NECRO!!!
SORC= NECRO
Compared summons.
The druid could summon animals. HEY HE IS THE SAME AS THE NECRO!!!
DRUID=NECRO
Now for some extra fun-
Amazon could summon a warrior. Assassin could do the same.
AMAZON=ASSASSIN.
AMAZING!!! If we follow the OP's logic and yours paroxysm, we are like-
BARB=NECRO=DRUID=SORC=AMAZON=ASSASSIN=ALL CHARS THAT WERE EVER CREATED IN ARPGS.
Edit- Scyber usually puts forward very high quality threads. Pretty unusual he came up with such a garbage far-fetched theory on why he thinks WD is the same as the Necro. Guess all of his threads can't be winners. He simply doesn't want to see any more old chars return, which is fair enough. However he should just have come up with a better story than this rotten one here.
Anyway...
Looking at the characters from a game developers point-of-view, the characters have more in common then they don't and not just because they are summoning/pet classes.
1. Look wise - regardless of how old the necro actually is, he looks old. From a game designer stand point, an old character is an old character. He is not a young girl, muscular man, average joe, he looks like an old man. The WD is an old man. Blizzard has stated they want each character to look and be unique. One old character is enough.
2. Game mechanics - first the obvious, yes they are both summoners/pet classes. One change has been made, the summons of the WD seem to be more like the summons of the druid rather than the army of the necro. However, both have poison and poison skills. both have summons. the bone wall and zombie wall are very similar from a game designer view. a lot of the WD's fire skills act similar to the necro's bone skills (single target projectile, multiple target projectile).
Again, I have nothing against the Necro, he was my second favorite class after the druid. I just do not want old characters back in the new game. The necro would need some major changes to be different enough to be in the game but at the same time, Blizzard said that they do not want to change him.
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You know what, now that I think about it...there might be something to that 'old' argument.
Oh wait no. It's actually as ridiculous as the other ideas.
Did you ever notice how the Amazon got long hair??? Guess what? The wizard got long hair too..
Oh noes...how in the world are we going to distinguish them now? They should have put only one char with long hair you know, to make them unique.
The necro is a pale white guy. The WD is a black guy. And you get stuck on how they both look old. How tragic.
The game mechanics argument is just as stupid really. Just go to the wiki and compare the skills of two very different archetypes (barb and necro) and you'll find yourself with enough similar skills to get another crazy theory going.
Sorry bud. This is really and easily one of your worst ideas. I am amazed to see you continue defending it. It's about as credible as the conspiracy theories surrounding the spaghetti monster.
yeaaaah, I guess bash would be raise skeleton?
war cry would be iron maiden?
Bone teeth would be whirl wind?
il give you the benefit of the doubt on this one, bone armor = iron skin ?
yeah your right, the similarities just start popping out of the wood work, you are right, and we are wrong.
Now I'll follow the same loose (and ridiculous) 'logic' from the OP and yours paroxysm and I'll show you how the Barb and the Necro are exactly (lol) the same.
Skill-
Barb: Battle cry- lowers defence of enemies
Necro: amplify damage- lowers defence of enemies
Barb:Grim ward- frightens enemies
Necro: Terrify- frightens enemies
Barb: warcry- area of effect skill that damages enemies
Necro: poison nova- area of effect skill that damages enemies
Barb: Battle orders- increase life of party member
Necro- golem and skeleton mastery- increase life of summons
Barb: double throw- ranged attack
Necro: Teeth or any bone spell you want- ranged attack
Obviously since you know(hopefully) the skills in details, it is easy to get nit picky. But this is about as solid as the OP's claims, maybe even much more.
Now let's cut the crap and get down to business here-
*The Scyber claimed that the two have the same feel. A guy popped up earlier in the thread and said someone who actually played the WD at blizzcon found they were not similar at all.
*Scyber just embarassed himself by comparing their lores which had nothing common at all. Hell he could have said all the chars in D2 had exactly the same background story because they are all based in sanctuary.
*He went on to say they looked both old, compromising their uniqueness. This is as unbelievably stupid as saying, these 2 chars are EXACTLY the same BECAUSE they have 2 arms, 2 legs and a pair of balls.
*He claimed their skills looked similar which as STUPID as saying the barb and necro are exactly the same and which I showed you earlier on in the post. He was basically comparing 2 skills because they both had the name 'wall' in them. Couldn't see the difference between a mongrel and a skeleton. Couldn't see the difference between something like bonespear and fireblast(or was it firebomb) and just reduced them to the concept of projectile, ranged attacks.
The final proof that you and Scyber are unnecessarily ridiculing yourselves is that Blizz themselves said the 2 chars were not alike. Imagine that- the developers themselves are saying that. Of course they could be wrong, but the way you people are going about it makes this whole thread a joke at best.
Cant we just agree that some skills have some resemblance to other skills?
That's all you ever got right in this thread.
In case you think I am getting annoyed for nothing let me give a sweet little recap of this thread.
Let us just move aside the fact Scyber was casually poking fun at my favorite D2 char(comparing him to an old fart and what not). I mean if I like the Necro, people definitely got the right to dislike/hate him. I can live through that. That nice story of necro being his second favorite char sounds like bullshit to me. Why? He seriously and completely lacked all sense objectivity in working out his link between the Necro and WD.
Then he goes to invent reasons why there is now no longer any place for the necro in d3. Yep the actual word here is 'invent'. Now anybody is allowed to speculate. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. And so, people come in the thread and post structured and detailed arguments of why the OP is too vague and inaccurate. People actually having played gave feedback on how the class differed.
What does Scyber do? Well he just ignores them- jumps from his opinion of how he sees the 2 would feel the same in gameplay when he has actually never played the WD to facts on how blizz said they did not have a strong desire to bring any old chars back.
Seriously, what was his point at this point? Is there no place because the 2 are similar or is it because necro is a char from D2 or is it just because he doesn't want to see the char again? He blatantly ignored the fact that blizz said these 2 were not alike and that they would consider bringing in the necro.
He was just going all over the place to try to rationalize his fantasy(that is all it is really). His latest post told of a game developer's point of view. The fact that he was getting desperate...is the 'old' argument which is just hilariously stupid.
Then you my good sir, just jump in the thread and announce that everybody disagreeing with the OP are fools.
You 2 have been trolling all along really.
Skills - yes, a lot of characters have skills that act similar but...
Let's start with the big ones. First is the undead concept. Any specific skills aside, both characters have skills dealing with the raising of the undead. One has skeletons while the other has zombies. Yes, those are different but they are both undead creatures. Name any other diablo character who deals in the resurrection of the undead. Second is poison. Again, any specific skills aside, both classes deal with poison. Blizzard has said they want each character to be very unique on skill sets. Two classes with poison does not agree with this. No other class has overlapping damage types (other than the wizard's 1-2 fire skills).
Now on with the specifics
Necro - bonewall
WD - Wall of zombies
The wall of zombies is simply an upgrade to bonewall with the addition of damage. No other class has this type of ability.
Necro - Summon skeleton
WD - summon zombie dog.
Both raise the undead to fight along with you.
Necro - skeleton mastery
WD - Ferocity
Both increase the life/dmg of your zombies/skeletons
Necro - Poison explosion
WD - Spider corpse
Both release a poisonous attack form a dead corpse
Necro - terror
WD - horrify
Both cause your enemy to flee
Necro - life tap
WD - Soul harvest
Bot hsteal life from attacked enemies, the only difference is that soul harvest is an active damaging skill with the life tap
Necro - amplify dmg
WD - Spirit sense
Both are skills to increase damage inflicted upon monsters
Necro - Confuse
WD - Mass confusion
Both cause the enemy to attack themselves
Necro - Bone spirit
WD - Haunt
Both send out a projectile that finds its target. no need to aim.
Necro - corpse explosion
WD - Sacrifice
Both cause a target to explode causing addition damage. The difference is corpse or own pets but no other class has a skill to select a target to explode for additional damage.
Necro - bone prison
WD - Grasp of the dead
Both hold an enemy in place
Ok, that is 11 direct skills above the fact that the two classes share two similar core mechanics. Not to mention other similarities like poison nova to acid cloud (both poison AoE) or golems to gargantuan (both tank type summons) and the necro's curses to the WD' hexes. While other classes may have single target projectiles, AoE, summons, or debuuf/buff skills, The similarities are obvious. They have over a third of the same skills as well as two of the same core mechanics. Blizzard said they want each character to be unique, how is a third of their skills the same with two core mechanics different enough to make them unique. I am not saying they won't play differently but they are very similar.
Also, please stop referring to my first post, it was made almost a year ago and I have admitted to the changes. If you would like to read some posts on better ideas please feel free to read the rest of this thread.
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And just lol at your new poison garbage argument. Poison is just a freaking element in D3. Just like fire and you saved yourself from complete embarrassment by actually remembering 2 people could already use fire in the game.
Oh also monk can explode enemies. Oh noes, the WD can explode stuff too. That's finished. D3 chars are no longer unique. PANIC!!!!!
Seriously dude, stop embarrassing yourself. Pointless to show you reason since you've just completely closed your mind to any.
If ever you feel like posting again, listen you Samuel Jackson's advice for maybe a new take on the matter. Otherwise just drop it really.
Edit- Also forgot to tell you- you are laboring under the delusion that should the Necro come back, he'll be exactly the same as in D2. Big mistake. So all of your silly comparisons could actually be even more pointless.
As for the poison comment, Blizzard has said that they plan on having each element only covered by one character. The fire damage of the Wizard in two skills is the only exception to this. As far as exploding palm, the actual damage in not fire, it is holy/magic.
As far as being closed minded, I have changed my thought on a lot of subjects which is why I said not to refer to the OP because my thoughts have changed so much. Most of your reasonings to disagree with me are ideas form the OP and not any post that I have made recently. Your main rebuttal to a recent post was my archetype skills debate in which you proved me wrong. In which case, I noted 11 specific skills that are the same. People disagreed with me about teh old look of both characters and so I have dropped this reasoning. I am open to any thoughts and discussion but I have been able to prove counterpoints to any argument so far. Most people have said there are similarities between all classes but few have tried to show the distinction between the Necro and the WD which is my concern. I admit there are similarities between all of the classes but the Necro and WD just share so much more.
As for the many different reasons why they should not add the necro, that just strengthens my own opinion I why they should not and not a fault in my reasoning. Having multiple reasoning for the same idea strengthens that fact not weakens it. Many different ideas are also used for the equaling amount of ideas to say otherwise.
Lastly, Blizzard said that the main reason why they chose not to add the Necro initially is that they only wanted to add old characters if they could change it enough to be new like the Barb. They said that the necro was practically perfect and they would not want to change him, if/when they do add him.
If you can disprove the similarities between the necro and the WD, I ask you to show me. However, saying the necro is the same as other attributes of other classes does not disprove the WD-necro connection. I have given ample proof with 11/30 skills being the same and two core mechanics (not just summon and buff/debuff generics) on how they are the same. Blizzard has stated the element uniqueness per character. Blizzard has stated they would not change him if added.
If you can explain how a third of their skills being the same and two of their mechanics being the same (excluding the poison elemental damage) being the same is different enough to include him then please do so. Just do not defend the fact by showing even more commonalities of the necro class with others further discouraging reason to have him.
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How about shit like- bash is the same as firebomb except you need to be close.
I told you- you are embarrassing yourself.
You would have had better luck with the druid really.
The reason why I was comparing the necro with others is to show you how easy it was to make those 'supposed' links that you worked hard to imagine. But of course you failed to see the point.
Now tell me, which part of blizz's ranting on how they were working on the WD and still leaving place for the Nekro, did not get into your head?
And which part where they said that the 2 classes were not alike didn't you understand?
Like I said if Necro returns he won't be exactly like in D2. And 'almost perfect' doesn't mean he cannot be modified. Just cannot be improved significantly. But who cares if thousands are able to have fun playing with him?
A third of the skills? Lol. Ill just assume you got all of them nailed down just for the sake of showing you something.
If you are having trouble with the maths, I'll do this complex bit of calculation for you- that leaves 2/3 of skills for WD... Imagine that...?
Supposing they are feeling damn lazy with the necro and supposing they'll be bringing him back, they could actually leave 2/3 of him INTACT!!! But then again that's blizz we are talking about, they'll revamp the char, I am pretty sure of it and with your level of imagination Scyber I am sure you can see a dozen variations and possibilities for each of the Necro's skill.
Too complex to understand maybe?
Your feeble comparisons are a complete fail. Neither me nor blizz sees the point that you are desperately trying to make because you do not want to see the necro in D3.