I do see where your going in a way, but I am under the assumption that if Blizzard does bring Necro back, they will do it right. It could only be assumed since they have already mentioned it as if it might even be part of their grand scheme, or at least a vague idea in place toward that grand scheme.
Blizzard has very rarely let me down, WoW was about to the only case, and I can't blame it on that really. They made a really good MMO (imho), I just personally hate how most MMOs play anyhow. Bummed me that we won't be seeing WC4 any time soon too. Otherwise, I am very happy with Blizzard. Have been since the first Diablo. The only games of theirs I have yet to play is Warcraft 1&2 and their original arcade games. I really like what they have done with Diablo 3 so far, and I think once we see that grand scheme, it will all make perfect since.
But I will say this as well, if they do bring the Necro back (which I personally predict will be the case unless they come up with something way better), it will be more than just for the fans. Necro was a fun character, and they would try to recapture that in a new way to make it something for new players (to the Diablo series) as well. On top of that, the whole Sin War Trilogy really made the Necromancer class (in general, as opposed to the particular hero of D2) an icon in the world of Sanctuary through lore. At this point, I have no doubt in my mind that we will at least see some Necro NPCs, and may actually get a chance to wield their mighty powers once more.
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There are no stupid questions, just a bunch of inquisitive idiots.
There was an interview with jay wilson where he had said they brought back the barb because they were able to improve him. He had also said that the necro was practically perfect and there is no real reason to bring him back if they can't change/improve him.
If you would like I can take the time to find the vid and get a direct quote but this is what was basically said. This interview was done after the initially release where he had said they left room IF they decided to bring him back and IMO he might have just said they are able to just to not upset any fans right off the bat.
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The magic/debuff/summon analysis are too vague. I don't agree the WD have debuffs. Crowd Controls are not debuff gameplay wise. Debuffs are skills that decrease stats (and buff are skills that increase stats). Crowd Control are skills used to disable your oponents. As Debuff are used to increase the overall party eficience just lke a Buff do, the CC is used as a strategical tool to deal with masses of enemies (it's like reduces enemies numbers for a while).
Also the WD's cc's belongs to 2 different skill trees. Also his attack skills are all spread among all his 3 skill trees. So his not magic/debuff/summon like the necro. He is magic and cc/summon and cc/magic.
But do they belong to the same archetype? Yes. But thats not what is writen in your OP..
You said they were too similar in lore, looks and gameplay and they aren't. You also said the similarities between the WD-Necro were greater then Wiz-Sorc and thats not true.
Just because two classes belongs to the same archtype doesn't mnea they are similar at all. For exemple the barbarian belongs to the same archetype of D1's warrior but one must be crazy and stupid to say they are similar in looks, lore or gameplay.
Well, I am speaking vaguely. In looking at what they could add and what would be necessary it is important to think of the characters vaguely. magic/melee/defense/summon/shape shifting/agile/ranged not to mention anything I can't think of. that is 343 combinations not including buffs since every class now has them mixed in and not including any other options of archetypes. If they add more classes i do not want them similar by any means.
But thats not what is writen in your OP..
You said they were too similar in lore, looks and gameplay and they aren't.
I never said lore wise they were the same. I had said lore wise the D2 necro would be too old. I did like Bartrex idea of it being a different necro.
I still say looks they are similar, old, too weak physically to fight themselves and both are "darker" characters. Yes the necro deals with bones/black/has hair/and pale while the WD is feather/colorful/bald/"tan" but look at them compared to the other classes. not a huge overbearing barb. not a small tiny girl.
I have mentioned many times the similarity in game play and wont rehash my thoughts. there are differences when looking at detail but not as an overall archetype.
You also said the similarities between the WD-Necro were greater then Wiz-Sorc and thats not true.
I did say this and still maintain my opinion on it. but more importantly it was brought up becasue generally diablo fans say it ok to say wizard=sorceress but the notion that wd=necro is considered blasphemy. IMO the only reason for this is die hard necro fans who fear change and want the ten yr old char brought back becasue they loved him so much the first time. I feel people who hold this opinion are focusing more on the necro and the new WD instead of a new Diablo game. People need to llok at the grand scheme of the game and not focus on such small details.
barb=barb
wizard=sorceress
WD=necro
new ranged melee=amazon
? who knows what the fifth class is but many can assume it will be similar to a D2 class.
these archetypes are classic and persists through the games. just new takes on them.
If there was a character you hated in D2 and the brought them back with slight variances would you feel the same? or were you mad that none of the first chars from D1 didnt make it into D2 (the original D1 chars at least).
New game should = new char
I still say I dont even want the barb back, I would rather have some other take on a massive melee char.
Don't get me wrong, I love the WD just I loved the Necro, IMO i am ok playing the WD as his replacement. A new take on a similar archetype. I love pet classes and the WD will be the first class I play. I just want NEW and VARIETY.
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Alright dude, this has gone one too long. I know exactly what Jay Wilson said, I have watched the vids over and over and over, and I have ready many of the interviews.
Read this entire page, it speaks for itself what I have been trying to tell you for the last 2 days. MTV may specifically phrase it as "WD replaces Necro", but Jay Wilson seems to debunk that theory. At this point its only replacing the Necro in the initial game, they are definitely making room for a Necro come-back if they choose to do so. If anyone can pull it off the way it should be done, Blizzard will be the ones to do it. There has been much controversy about the class choices, even within the Blizzard team itself. I am going to have to say that much of the team would probably like to see him return in the future.
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There are no stupid questions, just a bunch of inquisitive idiots.
I know that they may still put the necro into D3 with an expansion. And that they said he WAS DIFFERENT enough from the WD to play differently.I am not arguing that he wont be in it, I am not saying "The Necro will never be in D3". I had stated that same quote in my OP.I am just wondering why when you could be given soooo many new types of characters to play you want a 10yr old character that has similarities to another class.
If Jay had said that the WD was nothing like the necro, I wouldn't have a problem with it but he said"We are TRYING to design [the Witch Doctor] class so that IF we did bring back the Necromancer, there's room for him." That just doesn't justify it for me to include him and get rid of someone who could be potentially different and amazing.
As far as the necro being in an expansion Jay wilson has said "Our approach for classes in 'Diablo III' is that we don't have a strong desire to bring back classes from the previous game," . "The goal is to try and give people new gameplay and not just re-hash old gameplay. We're not just making a 'Diablo II' with updated 3D graphics." and "The problem was, we looked at the class and didn't think that we could really make him a lot better," he explained. "We could add some new stuff to him but for the most part -- curses, corpse explosion, skeleton pets -- done. That's the class. We wanted to create new gameplay, so we chose to do the Witch Doctor as a different kind of class."
of course he also siad "We're looking out ahead of time at what our expansions are going to be, so we've got to keep room open for some of those other classes down the road." but this could also mean the druid, assassin, amazon, pally.
Read this entire page, it speaks for itself what I have been trying to tell you for the last 2 days...
It dose speak for itself but it mentions more negative reasons than positive in your stance. Did YOU read the entire page? This is what I mean by the people who want necro can only focus on that instead of looking at D3 and the fact that it is a new game.
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Though the Witch Doctor will have similar abilities to the Necromancer, Wilson didn't want to "have to live by any Necromancer rules." One of the big differences between the two classes is how damage is actually dealt.
"If [the Necromancer] dealt damage, it was through corpses laying around or through his pets," he said. "The Witch Doctor, his pets are a little more transient. If you watch the gameplay video, you really notice his pets come and go like crazy. There's a wall of zombies that go away fairly quickly or pets that just kind of blow up willy-nilly. That was intentional -- to try and make him different than the Necromancer."
He says here that they have been taking steps to keep room for the Necro already. If the Devs are mad about the class decisions and they decided to build the WD to leave room for the Necro, wouldn't that kinda register to you that they might just happen to want to bring back the Necro, along with some of the other classes? There really is no limit to how many characters they can bring back if they choose, but honestly onlly the Druid, Assassin, Pally, and Necro would make sense at this point.
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There are no stupid questions, just a bunch of inquisitive idiots.
If the Devs are mad about the class decisions and they decided to build the WD to leave room for the Necro, wouldn't that kinda register to you that they might just happen to want to bring back the Necro
yea it leaves open the possibility but
"Our approach for classes in 'Diablo III' is that we don't have a strong desire to bring back classes from the previous game," . "The goal is to try and give people new gameplay and not just re-hash old gameplay. We're not just making a 'Diablo II' with updated 3D graphics." and "The problem was, we looked at the class and didn't think that we could really make him a lot better," he explained. "We could add some new stuff to him but for the most part -- curses, corpse explosion, skeleton pets -- done. That's the class. We wanted to create new gameplay, so we chose to do the Witch Doctor as a different kind of class."
speaks louder to me than one sentence saying the other stance. Like I said before IF they add the necro it will be for fan reasons not gameplay, which I believe is not a good reason to do so from a game dev stand point. Does any of this register to yuo or are you blinded by the necro's plae skin.:P
I saw R.I.P. necro. you have earned your rest SO TAKE IT.
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Meh, we will just have to see in the end. If he doesn't come back, personally I won't be offended. I do like the WD a lot, however to see the Necro return in a new and innovative way would probably kick ass considering its coming from Blizzard.
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There are no stupid questions, just a bunch of inquisitive idiots.
I did say this and still maintain my opinion on it. .
Now you're just been picky...
Similarities between the sorc and wizard:
-Teleportation
-Massive Slowing AoE's Spells
-Heavy one target and multitarget nuking
-Field Control spells like Hydra, Meteor and Blizzard.
-Magic Shields to freeze attackers and increase resistance.
-Possibility of melee attacking by enchanting your weapon
Really, the only difference between Sorc and Wiz (so far) are the Slow Time, wich is only one more CC in the long list of sorceress and wizard spells.
The only similarity between WD and Necro have summons (wich is uber vague because 4/7 of characters in D2 have summons). Also the damage over time dps (poison damage) wich is the only decent similarity between those two classes.
And I don't think the necromancer will comeback just because the game can't have more then 2/5 spellcasters of the total classes. If instead of the WD we had a Priest class that was a suportive healer i would still know for sure that the necro will not come back just because this priest would be a spellcaster.
The prove that the differences between necro and wd are much smaller then the diferences between wiz-sorc is that the necro could be possible to be added in a future expansion while the sorc is 100% impossible (most of sorc spells are used by the wiz. Also, theres no reason to a sorc cast a spell and a wiz don't, making the coexistence of those 2 classes in a single game impossible).
And I don't think the necromancer will comeback just because the game can't have more then 2/5 spellcasters of the total classes. If instead of the WD we had a Priest class that was a suportive healer i would still know for sure that the necro will not come back just because this priest would be a spellcaster.
I don't think there is a doubt in any bodies' mind that we will not be seeing the Necro from the start. Expansion, however, is a different story. Lets keep dreaming.
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There are no stupid questions, just a bunch of inquisitive idiots.
Lore - the necro was already like 100 yrs old in D2. 20 years later, he is like what? 200 now (j.k. I know 100 + 20 = 187). I think decard should be the only really, really, really old fart.
The Necromancer wasn't extremely old. He's in his late 20's, early 30's. He only looks like that because of years of study in a dark, dank mausoleum. Basically, he had no desire to sit in the sun and get a tan, and look as young as he is.
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Just as the Scorpion hunts...
Silently Lurking...
"Nothing is True. Everything is Permitted." ~ Ezio Auditore de Firenze
I don't think there is a doubt in any bodies' mind that we will not be seeing the Necro from the start. Expansion, however, is a different story. Lets keep dreaming.
.... shamanism has to do with spirits (most of the time evil)... necromancy has to do with death and spirits. They both share a common link but I'm pretty sure they will play differently We'll just have to see for ourself. Anyway, I already know what name I'm gonna use for my WD ---> DOCTORLOOMPA
Rofl, even if Necro never happens in Diablo 3, the WD ≠ Necro, and it never will. Doesn't mean I won't be playing one though XD. After my ranged guy that is...
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There are no stupid questions, just a bunch of inquisitive idiots.
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Blizzard has very rarely let me down, WoW was about to the only case, and I can't blame it on that really. They made a really good MMO (imho), I just personally hate how most MMOs play anyhow. Bummed me that we won't be seeing WC4 any time soon too. Otherwise, I am very happy with Blizzard. Have been since the first Diablo. The only games of theirs I have yet to play is Warcraft 1&2 and their original arcade games. I really like what they have done with Diablo 3 so far, and I think once we see that grand scheme, it will all make perfect since.
But I will say this as well, if they do bring the Necro back (which I personally predict will be the case unless they come up with something way better), it will be more than just for the fans. Necro was a fun character, and they would try to recapture that in a new way to make it something for new players (to the Diablo series) as well. On top of that, the whole Sin War Trilogy really made the Necromancer class (in general, as opposed to the particular hero of D2) an icon in the world of Sanctuary through lore. At this point, I have no doubt in my mind that we will at least see some Necro NPCs, and may actually get a chance to wield their mighty powers once more.
If you would like I can take the time to find the vid and get a direct quote but this is what was basically said. This interview was done after the initially release where he had said they left room IF they decided to bring him back and IMO he might have just said they are able to just to not upset any fans right off the bat.
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Also the WD's cc's belongs to 2 different skill trees. Also his attack skills are all spread among all his 3 skill trees. So his not magic/debuff/summon like the necro. He is magic and cc/summon and cc/magic.
But do they belong to the same archetype? Yes. But thats not what is writen in your OP..
You said they were too similar in lore, looks and gameplay and they aren't. You also said the similarities between the WD-Necro were greater then Wiz-Sorc and thats not true.
Just because two classes belongs to the same archtype doesn't mnea they are similar at all. For exemple the barbarian belongs to the same archetype of D1's warrior but one must be crazy and stupid to say they are similar in looks, lore or gameplay.
I never said lore wise they were the same. I had said lore wise the D2 necro would be too old. I did like Bartrex idea of it being a different necro.
I still say looks they are similar, old, too weak physically to fight themselves and both are "darker" characters. Yes the necro deals with bones/black/has hair/and pale while the WD is feather/colorful/bald/"tan" but look at them compared to the other classes. not a huge overbearing barb. not a small tiny girl.
I have mentioned many times the similarity in game play and wont rehash my thoughts. there are differences when looking at detail but not as an overall archetype.
I did say this and still maintain my opinion on it. but more importantly it was brought up becasue generally diablo fans say it ok to say wizard=sorceress but the notion that wd=necro is considered blasphemy. IMO the only reason for this is die hard necro fans who fear change and want the ten yr old char brought back becasue they loved him so much the first time. I feel people who hold this opinion are focusing more on the necro and the new WD instead of a new Diablo game. People need to llok at the grand scheme of the game and not focus on such small details.
barb=barb
wizard=sorceress
WD=necro
new ranged melee=amazon
? who knows what the fifth class is but many can assume it will be similar to a D2 class.
these archetypes are classic and persists through the games. just new takes on them.
If there was a character you hated in D2 and the brought them back with slight variances would you feel the same? or were you mad that none of the first chars from D1 didnt make it into D2 (the original D1 chars at least).
New game should = new char
I still say I dont even want the barb back, I would rather have some other take on a massive melee char.
Don't get me wrong, I love the WD just I loved the Necro, IMO i am ok playing the WD as his replacement. A new take on a similar archetype. I love pet classes and the WD will be the first class I play. I just want NEW and VARIETY.
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Read this entire page, it speaks for itself what I have been trying to tell you for the last 2 days. MTV may specifically phrase it as "WD replaces Necro", but Jay Wilson seems to debunk that theory. At this point its only replacing the Necro in the initial game, they are definitely making room for a Necro come-back if they choose to do so. If anyone can pull it off the way it should be done, Blizzard will be the ones to do it. There has been much controversy about the class choices, even within the Blizzard team itself. I am going to have to say that much of the team would probably like to see him return in the future.
If Jay had said that the WD was nothing like the necro, I wouldn't have a problem with it but he said"We are TRYING to design [the Witch Doctor] class so that IF we did bring back the Necromancer, there's room for him." That just doesn't justify it for me to include him and get rid of someone who could be potentially different and amazing.
As far as the necro being in an expansion Jay wilson has said "Our approach for classes in 'Diablo III' is that we don't have a strong desire to bring back classes from the previous game," . "The goal is to try and give people new gameplay and not just re-hash old gameplay. We're not just making a 'Diablo II' with updated 3D graphics." and "The problem was, we looked at the class and didn't think that we could really make him a lot better," he explained. "We could add some new stuff to him but for the most part -- curses, corpse explosion, skeleton pets -- done. That's the class. We wanted to create new gameplay, so we chose to do the Witch Doctor as a different kind of class."
of course he also siad "We're looking out ahead of time at what our expansions are going to be, so we've got to keep room open for some of those other classes down the road." but this could also mean the druid, assassin, amazon, pally.
It dose speak for itself but it mentions more negative reasons than positive in your stance. Did YOU read the entire page? This is what I mean by the people who want necro can only focus on that instead of looking at D3 and the fact that it is a new game.
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He says here that they have been taking steps to keep room for the Necro already. If the Devs are mad about the class decisions and they decided to build the WD to leave room for the Necro, wouldn't that kinda register to you that they might just happen to want to bring back the Necro, along with some of the other classes? There really is no limit to how many characters they can bring back if they choose, but honestly onlly the Druid, Assassin, Pally, and Necro would make sense at this point.
speaks louder to me than one sentence saying the other stance. Like I said before IF they add the necro it will be for fan reasons not gameplay, which I believe is not a good reason to do so from a game dev stand point. Does any of this register to yuo or are you blinded by the necro's plae skin.:P
I saw R.I.P. necro. you have earned your rest SO TAKE IT.
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Now you're just been picky...
Similarities between the sorc and wizard:
-Teleportation
-Massive Slowing AoE's Spells
-Heavy one target and multitarget nuking
-Field Control spells like Hydra, Meteor and Blizzard.
-Magic Shields to freeze attackers and increase resistance.
-Possibility of melee attacking by enchanting your weapon
Really, the only difference between Sorc and Wiz (so far) are the Slow Time, wich is only one more CC in the long list of sorceress and wizard spells.
The only similarity between WD and Necro have summons (wich is uber vague because 4/7 of characters in D2 have summons). Also the damage over time dps (poison damage) wich is the only decent similarity between those two classes.
And I don't think the necromancer will comeback just because the game can't have more then 2/5 spellcasters of the total classes. If instead of the WD we had a Priest class that was a suportive healer i would still know for sure that the necro will not come back just because this priest would be a spellcaster.
The prove that the differences between necro and wd are much smaller then the diferences between wiz-sorc is that the necro could be possible to be added in a future expansion while the sorc is 100% impossible (most of sorc spells are used by the wiz. Also, theres no reason to a sorc cast a spell and a wiz don't, making the coexistence of those 2 classes in a single game impossible).
I don't think there is a doubt in any bodies' mind that we will not be seeing the Necro from the start. Expansion, however, is a different story. Lets keep dreaming.
The Necromancer wasn't extremely old. He's in his late 20's, early 30's. He only looks like that because of years of study in a dark, dank mausoleum. Basically, he had no desire to sit in the sun and get a tan, and look as young as he is.
Surely in a expansion !
Jay wilson has said "Our approach for classes in 'Diablo III' is that we don't have a strong desire to bring back classes from the previous game," .
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XD, let it go. It either happens or it doesn't. Either way D3 will kill.
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