What I'm implying is the imbalances between Barb/Monk on (Fury/Spirit Generation)
Barbarian has 9 Fury Generation skills while the Monk has only 4.
The monk only generates 6 spirit per hit while that Barbarian can gain 3-15 fury, and up to 30 fury for war cry.
I understand that Barbarian should be stronger in terms of damage/tankability/etc but to what extend? Earthquake (2k dmg) Vs. Wave of Light (420 Dmg?)
The Stunt on the Barbarian; E.G. Leap and Stomp. Seems pretty OP to me. 7 secs total and only 3 secs in between before cooldown. (while both are fury generators)
I do love both classes but should the monk be a real melee or just a supporter class? Supporting class should be the role of mages IMO.
If they made them the same as generators go, then it would be the same exact mechanic minus the degrade on the barb (without the passive)
The barb has more generators because his fury attacks are meant to be used more often, while the Monks' spirit attacks are meant to be used less often and in more specific instances. They aren't necessarily more powerful, but more useful at certain times.
If you want a Barb play one, but they both have different play styles, right down to how they generate their resource and how they spend it. It would be boring if they were the same.
You're not taking into account the Monk's attack speed. He attacks really fast, the difference for me when playing the beta was huge. Monk with Fists of Thunder felt faster than a Barb on 6 stacks of Frenzy, and it's permanent, i.e. you don't lose stacks and then slow down. That's what I liked most about the Monk in the beta, really fast attacks and high mobility.
Edit: forgot to talk about your other point, as in Barb being able to stun for ever.
Don't forgot that Monk can get a high dodge chance, which is one of his tanking mechanisms. He also has a variety of things like damage reduction on enemies, heals, Inner Sanctuary, Serenity, mantras, etc etc. You can also rune Lashing Tail Kick to have a 50% chance to stun rather than knockback, and that skill can be spammed, so you could end up perma stunning enemies around you for 7 seconds if you do it right, as far as I can tell.
Regarding your Earthquake / Wave of Light comparison, Earthquake is on a 2 minute cooldown, whereas Wave of Light has 0 cooldown. It's spammable as long as you have enough Spirit (and yes, you can build towards Spirit regen). In 2 minutes, you can use Seven-Sided Strike 4 times, which adds up to be 3108% weapon damage without runes.
I think if you look through Monk's skills carefully, you will see that he can definitely compete with Barb in all respects. Some of his skills are weird and take some thinking to realise that they are actually awesome, so you might need to wait and try him to really understand how he works.
If they made them the same as generators go, then it would be the same exact mechanic minus the degrade on the barb (without the passive)
The barb has more generators because his fury attacks are meant to be used more often, while the Monks' spirit attacks are meant to be used less often and in more specific instances. They aren't necessarily more powerful, but more useful at certain times.
If you want a Barb play one, but they both have different play styles, right down to how they generate their resource and how they spend it. It would be boring if they were the same.
But that means the spenders should be better, and I don't really see that.
They just seem more expensive...
You're not taking into account the Monk's attack speed. He attacks really fast, the difference for me when playing the beta was huge. Monk with Fists of Thunder felt faster than a Barb on 6 stacks of Frenzy, and it's permanent, i.e. you don't lose stacks and then slow down. That's what I liked most about the Monk in the beta, really fast attacks and high mobility.
Everyone says the monk attacks faster...
How is the monk faster though? Does he have a hidden attack speed buff somewhere?
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One is never hurt by being given additional choices, only by taking them away. A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
If they made them the same as generators go, then it would be the same exact mechanic minus the degrade on the barb (without the passive)
The barb has more generators because his fury attacks are meant to be used more often, while the Monks' spirit attacks are meant to be used less often and in more specific instances. They aren't necessarily more powerful, but more useful at certain times.
If you want a Barb play one, but they both have different play styles, right down to how they generate their resource and how they spend it. It would be boring if they were the same.
But that means the spenders should be better, and I don't really see that.
They just seem more expensive...
You're not taking into account the Monk's attack speed. He attacks really fast, the difference for me when playing the beta was huge. Monk with Fists of Thunder felt faster than a Barb on 6 stacks of Frenzy, and it's permanent, i.e. you don't lose stacks and then slow down. That's what I liked most about the Monk in the beta, really fast attacks and high mobility.
Everyone says the monk attacks faster...
How is the monk faster though? Does he have a hidden attack speed buff somewhere?
Because I'm terrible at editing these things and it's late, this is @ jack's reply;
They don't really have to be better, just different is good enough. Like I said not everything is equal across all classes, including resource management and spending. By just playing the beta I found the Monk's spirit spenders to be more situational, while the Barb is more of a 'spend it while you get it' type. Think of it like this; With the barb it's easy and more his playstyle to alternate back and forth (almost) with spenders and generators, whereas the monk most of your damage will be coming from your generators and you are using your spenders less often.
Now if this problem boils down to you just don't want to play like that, I'm not sure what to say. I'm just citing their 'basic' playstyle.
The skill itself has a hidden modifier. You can see your attacks per second in between each swing increase with fist of thunder.
But so far thats the only one.
Yeah, Fists of Thunder is just faster as a skill. Another point about the class in general is that it looks like Monk will be able to dual-wield as a defensive option due to "The Guardian's Path" passive giving you 15% bonus dodge while dual-wielding. Whereas the Barb will have to equip a shield if he needs extra survivability.
TL;DR:
- Monk can survive while dual-wielding and is therefore faster.
- Barb can hit hard, but might need to use shields more than monks, therefore losing the speed buff.
If you played the beta you would know just how fast the monk builds spirit with the generators. In the time that the barb can do 1 cleave (5 fury) the monk can hit a generator almost 3 times (6+6+6 spirit).
Also you can get about 5 spirit/sec passive regen from just skills/runes/passives.
Crippling Wave actually felt like it was just a slight tick slower than Deadly Reach to me but that might just have been my imagination at the time.
You just can't treat these comparisons in 1:1 format, they're very different in how you play and how you use your abilities.
Honestly all we can do is just wait till the game releases and actually play it in its entirety with access to everything and after some likely post launch tuning. Paper play is so different from the real deal. The theory says that in practice everything should go according to the theory, but in practice it never really does
Regardless I doubt that it's so broken that it'll feel like Barbarian completely out shadows the Monk.
Game has not even started but you already know without testing which class is OP and which not! Oh god, also as some others already said it, why do you want so much balance around here ?! Blizzard clearly stated that there won't be any serious balance and that is why they don't make an eSport out of this.
Go support ur allies with your heals as a monk and do the best u can, I am sure there are alot of useful skills in every class that make life easier in D3! Just choose a class u like and enjoy the game cya!
No one can claim any imbalance between the 2 classes until people have reached lvl 60 and are decked out in the best gear. I suspect when that happens people are gonna be having too much fun kicking butt to even remember any of these asinine suspicions.
Sorry if I've provoked anyone in regards to this topic. It's just merely a discussion/debate, as we know that blizzard will have tons of patches to gain balances due to the reason of the tradition such as PVP.
Monk will be my main character although I will be playing other classes. I just like to know your views on his skills. E.G. his stuns are all % proportional. Maybe he has too many defensive skills and buffs as so a tune down to be OP.
I understood now that the gain of "Spr Vs. Fury" is irrelevant. Although Blizzard announced that balanced will not be prioritized but I believe it will still be a matter.
Sorry if I've provoked anyone in regards to this topic. It's just merely a discussion/debate, as we know that blizzard will have tons of patches to gain balances due to the reason of the tradition such as PVP.
Monk will be my main character although I will be playing other classes. I just like to know your views on his skills. E.G. his stuns are all % proportional. Maybe he has too many defensive skills and buffs as so a tune down to be OP.
I understood now that the gain of "Spr Vs. Fury" is irrelevant. Although Blizzard announced that balanced will not be prioritized but I believe it will still be a matter.
What I'm implying is the imbalances between Barb/Monk on (Fury/Spirit Generation)
Barbarian has 9 Fury Generation skills while the Monk has only 4.
The monk only generates 6 spirit per hit while that Barbarian can gain 3-15 fury, and up to 30 fury for war cry.
I understand that Barbarian should be stronger in terms of damage/tankability/etc but to what extend? Earthquake (2k dmg) Vs. Wave of Light (420 Dmg?)
The Stunt on the Barbarian; E.G. Leap and Stomp. Seems pretty OP to me. 7 secs total and only 3 secs in between before cooldown. (while both are fury generators)
I do love both classes but should the monk be a real melee or just a supporter class? Supporting class should be the role of mages IMO.
Please give your opinion towards my view. Thanks.
Cheers!
A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
The barb has more generators because his fury attacks are meant to be used more often, while the Monks' spirit attacks are meant to be used less often and in more specific instances. They aren't necessarily more powerful, but more useful at certain times.
If you want a Barb play one, but they both have different play styles, right down to how they generate their resource and how they spend it. It would be boring if they were the same.
Edit: forgot to talk about your other point, as in Barb being able to stun for ever.
Don't forgot that Monk can get a high dodge chance, which is one of his tanking mechanisms. He also has a variety of things like damage reduction on enemies, heals, Inner Sanctuary, Serenity, mantras, etc etc. You can also rune Lashing Tail Kick to have a 50% chance to stun rather than knockback, and that skill can be spammed, so you could end up perma stunning enemies around you for 7 seconds if you do it right, as far as I can tell.
Regarding your Earthquake / Wave of Light comparison, Earthquake is on a 2 minute cooldown, whereas Wave of Light has 0 cooldown. It's spammable as long as you have enough Spirit (and yes, you can build towards Spirit regen). In 2 minutes, you can use Seven-Sided Strike 4 times, which adds up to be 3108% weapon damage without runes.
I think if you look through Monk's skills carefully, you will see that he can definitely compete with Barb in all respects. Some of his skills are weird and take some thinking to realise that they are actually awesome, so you might need to wait and try him to really understand how he works.
But that means the spenders should be better, and I don't really see that.
They just seem more expensive...
Everyone says the monk attacks faster...
How is the monk faster though? Does he have a hidden attack speed buff somewhere?
A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
But so far thats the only one.
Because I'm terrible at editing these things and it's late, this is @ jack's reply;
They don't really have to be better, just different is good enough. Like I said not everything is equal across all classes, including resource management and spending. By just playing the beta I found the Monk's spirit spenders to be more situational, while the Barb is more of a 'spend it while you get it' type. Think of it like this; With the barb it's easy and more his playstyle to alternate back and forth (almost) with spenders and generators, whereas the monk most of your damage will be coming from your generators and you are using your spenders less often.
Now if this problem boils down to you just don't want to play like that, I'm not sure what to say. I'm just citing their 'basic' playstyle.
Yeah, Fists of Thunder is just faster as a skill. Another point about the class in general is that it looks like Monk will be able to dual-wield as a defensive option due to "The Guardian's Path" passive giving you 15% bonus dodge while dual-wielding. Whereas the Barb will have to equip a shield if he needs extra survivability.
TL;DR:
- Monk can survive while dual-wielding and is therefore faster.
- Barb can hit hard, but might need to use shields more than monks, therefore losing the speed buff.
Also you can get about 5 spirit/sec passive regen from just skills/runes/passives.
You just can't treat these comparisons in 1:1 format, they're very different in how you play and how you use your abilities.
Honestly all we can do is just wait till the game releases and actually play it in its entirety with access to everything and after some likely post launch tuning. Paper play is so different from the real deal. The theory says that in practice everything should go according to the theory, but in practice it never really does
Regardless I doubt that it's so broken that it'll feel like Barbarian completely out shadows the Monk.
Go support ur allies with your heals as a monk and do the best u can, I am sure there are alot of useful skills in every class that make life easier in D3! Just choose a class u like and enjoy the game cya!
My Female Witch Doctor entry in the Portrait of a Champion Fanart Contest.
Illustration Website: www.Truepinkas.com
Sorry if I've provoked anyone in regards to this topic. It's just merely a discussion/debate, as we know that blizzard will have tons of patches to gain balances due to the reason of the tradition such as PVP.
Monk will be my main character although I will be playing other classes. I just like to know your views on his skills. E.G. his stuns are all % proportional. Maybe he has too many defensive skills and buffs as so a tune down to be OP.
I understood now that the gain of "Spr Vs. Fury" is irrelevant. Although Blizzard announced that balanced will not be prioritized but I believe it will still be a matter.
Here's a video posted by Kirisu via Youtube, the almost fastest speed you'll get in beta from a Monk.
http://www.diablofans.com/topic/39104-294-attacks-per-second-youtube/
Cheers.
Hahah, thank you for showing me the most epic music for playing the monk !!!!
Not to mention attack speed modifiers. An endgame monk will have around 3 hits per second with normal attacks.