So even if you can get to it (needing some IAS from a few Paragon points) is it worth swapping out an Etrayu? I've got a Manticore waiting on another gift to socket it (used my first 3 on a Windforce and 2 Etrayus). I'm not certain that the 17% Cold/1967.5 avg dmg on the bow outweighing the truck-hitting 2398.5 on the Manticore, with the sentries breakpoint being the same at 2.842 (reaching BP8 isn't available).
if your playing rocket build you have to consider that just 50% of your skills are cold dmg
The # of cold skills isn't a reflection of what % of your dmg is cold though.
If you happen to have way too much IAS that puts you at the same breakpoint with both bow and xbow then the xbow will be better but I'm barely at 2.842 with a 50% TnT and a WH + usual stuff with 5% total missing from imperfect rolls so you'd probably be maxing it out in paragon and have it on bracers along with perfect IAS everywhere to hit it with an xbow.
Aside from my RoRG at 5% everything else is capped (outside of some strange oddity legendary somewhere) outside of either Unity or SoJ. I'll need to be at 60.6% and I'm at 53% so 36 points in IAS Paragon...after a month or two it'll be maxed anyway.
The Cold Damage missing is my concern and since I haven't seen a full gear spreadsheet (like Dretar used to make, among others) it's not as visible on how small changes (or larger) affect me.
In my case, an xbow at 2.84 beats any bow at 2.84 by a good margin, as it should since the average damage is just that much higher. The cold damage on Etrayu is both subject to diminishing returns since it's additive stacking with enforcer and other +%cold, as well as only 45-55% of your damage being cold in the frostfire build.
Unsurprising. A (rough) rule of thumb is that if your bow and xbow have similar dps, and all other things being equal (ie no +cold dmg, ...), you'll do more or less equivalent damage with the xbow at 2.16 and the bow at 2.84.
In my case, an xbow at 2.84 beats any bow at 2.84 by a good margin, as it should since the average damage is just that much higher. The cold damage on Etrayu is both subject to diminishing returns since it's additive stacking with enforcer and other +%cold, as well as only 45-55% of your damage being cold in the frostfire build.
Unsurprising. A (rough) rule of thumb is that if your bow and xbow have similar dps, and all other things being equal (ie no +cold dmg, ...), you'll do more or less equivalent damage with the xbow at 2.16 and the bow at 2.84.
This is exactly why I'm at this crossroads. I haven't seen much theorycrafting (ok, none aside from the question posited a couple times without followup). It makes sense that it would do more damage but "sense" isn't math. I've spent a few gifts getting better and better bows and who knows when the next one will drop.
I suppose once I get another gift I'll be able to test it out and compare for myself.
Then it's back to the first reply in this thread : if I read your OP right and you can reach the 2.84 BP with your 2H xbow, then by all means, go for it.
If it's a choice between 2.84 Etrayu and 2.16 Manticore, I'd stick with the Etrayu. No math to support that point, but I can suggest at least two reasons :
- you don't have all that much cold damage to begin with, so the 17% from your bow is very valuable
- 2.84 AS also means almost guaranteed uptime on bane of the trapped, which also makes for a significant increase in dps and survivability both
In my case, an xbow at 2.84 beats any bow at 2.84 by a good margin, as it should since the average damage is just that much higher. The cold damage on Etrayu is both subject to diminishing returns since it's additive stacking with enforcer and other +%cold, as well as only 45-55% of your damage being cold in the frostfire build.
Unsurprising. A (rough) rule of thumb is that if your bow and xbow have similar dps, and all other things being equal (ie no +cold dmg, ...), you'll do more or less equivalent damage with the xbow at 2.16 and the bow at 2.84.
This is exactly why I'm at this crossroads. I haven't seen much theorycrafting (ok, none aside from the question posited a couple times without followup). It makes sense that it would do more damage but "sense" isn't math. I've spent a few gifts getting better and better bows and who knows when the next one will drop.
I suppose once I get another gift I'll be able to test it out and compare for myself.
Yeah, might as well try it yourself. Theorycrafting for M6 weapons seems to be split at the moment anyway. When I picked up DH a few weeks ago the consensus was Etrayu with the 2.84 breakpoint is best in slot, and many still say it is. Now there are people saying calamity with the 4.16 breakpoint is the best in slot and the sacrifices made to other stats are worth it. There are also people who say a 2h crossbow with the 2.84 breakpoint beats everything because the damage range of 2h crossbows is so good.
In my case, an xbow at 2.84 beats any bow at 2.84 by a good margin, as it should since the average damage is just that much higher. The cold damage on Etrayu is both subject to diminishing returns since it's additive stacking with enforcer and other +%cold, as well as only 45-55% of your damage being cold in the frostfire build.
Unsurprising. A (rough) rule of thumb is that if your bow and xbow have similar dps, and all other things being equal (ie no +cold dmg, ...), you'll do more or less equivalent damage with the xbow at 2.16 and the bow at 2.84.
This is exactly why I'm at this crossroads. I haven't seen much theorycrafting (ok, none aside from the question posited a couple times without followup). It makes sense that it would do more damage but "sense" isn't math. I've spent a few gifts getting better and better bows and who knows when the next one will drop.
I suppose once I get another gift I'll be able to test it out and compare for myself.
Yeah, might as well try it yourself. Theorycrafting for M6 weapons seems to be split at the moment anyway. When I picked up DH a few weeks ago the consensus was Etrayu with the 2.84 breakpoint is best in slot, and many still say it is. Now there are people saying calamity with the 4.16 breakpoint is the best in slot and the sacrifices made to other stats are worth it. There are also people who say a 2h crossbow with the 2.84 breakpoint beats everything because the damage range of 2h crossbows is so good.
The reason people say different weapons are "best-in-slot" is because different weapons are good for different things.
Etrayu is the best weapon for solo play. Why? Because you can reach 2.84 comfortably without sacrificing any big damage stats, and cold is the preferred build in solo since you need the slow from frost arrow to proc Cull/Trapped reliably.
With absolutely perfect gear (calamity with 7% ias, 7% WH, 7% lacunis, 7% rorg, 20% rucksack, 50%/7% taskers, 10% paragon without taking away cc/chd), the 4.15 calamity might be better, but this is completely out of the question for nearly all demon hunters, so it's usually not even taken into consideration.
2.84 xbow setups is the best for group play. Why? Because you usually want to play Fire in group (So etrayu is out), and reaching the breakpoint becomes easy with a witch doctor that uses Starmetal Kukri for 100% big bad voodoo uptime. This secures 20% extra ias that you can not get in solo play, which means the higher breakpoints are reachable without sacrifices on gear. This is why xbows are preferred over bows in this scenario.
So you can see there isn't just a one-size-fits-all answer to bis weapon, as it depends what you are doing, and what you have available to you.
So best in slot usually comes down to this: Solo: Cold build w. 2.84 etryau or cold build with 4.15 calamity ( perfect gear required) Group: Fire build w. 2.84 xbow or lightning build with 4.15 helltrapper (requires voodoo for both)
tyvm, super info !
i'm using a calamity with the 2.84 bp atm, didnt find an etrayu yet, y play in groups but without a WD so i think its good still overall for the buff to everyone else !
The reason people say different weapons are "best-in-slot" is because different weapons are good for different things.
Etrayu is the best weapon for solo play. Why? Because you can reach 2.84 comfortably without sacrificing any big damage stats, and cold is the preferred build in solo since you need the slow from frost arrow to proc Cull/Trapped reliably.
With absolutely perfect gear (calamity with 7% ias, 7% WH, 7% lacunis, 7% rorg, 20% rucksack, 50%/7% taskers, 10% paragon without taking away cc/chd), the 4.15 calamity might be better, but this is completely out of the question for nearly all demon hunters, so it's usually not even taken into consideration.
2.84 xbow setups is the best for group play. Why? Because you usually want to play Fire in group (So etrayu is out), and reaching the breakpoint becomes easy with a witch doctor that uses Starmetal Kukri for 100% big bad voodoo uptime. This secures 20% extra ias that you can not get in solo play, which means the higher breakpoints are reachable without sacrifices on gear. This is why xbows are preferred over bows in this scenario.
So you can see there isn't just a one-size-fits-all answer to bis weapon, as it depends what you are doing, and what you have available to you.
So best in slot usually comes down to this: Solo: Cold build w. 2.84 etryau or cold build with 4.15 calamity ( perfect gear required) Group: Fire build w. 2.84 xbow or lightning build with 4.15 helltrapper (requires voodoo for both)
Interesting, why go pure fire in groups though? In groups the DH is the main (or one of the main) damage dealers. Aside from the slow the hybrid build does more damage in general doesn't it? (maelstrom takes advantage of ballistics, loaded for bear doesn't). You can't really stack more fire damage either because magefist and cindercoat are not options (tasker & theo, maurader's chest).
Opinions? I haven't seen much on this.
Conform or be cast out.
My Demon Hunter: http://tinyurl.com/anufqzj Yes, THAT Analogkid- pissing off Hunters since 2007.
I'm personally in the opposite situation, waiting on another gift to swap from Manticore to Etrayu to move up the 2.8ish break point.
Conform or be cast out.
My Demon Hunter: http://tinyurl.com/anufqzj Yes, THAT Analogkid- pissing off Hunters since 2007.
If you happen to have way too much IAS that puts you at the same breakpoint with both bow and xbow then the xbow will be better but I'm barely at 2.842 with a 50% TnT and a WH + usual stuff with 5% total missing from imperfect rolls so you'd probably be maxing it out in paragon and have it on bracers along with perfect IAS everywhere to hit it with an xbow.
The Cold Damage missing is my concern and since I haven't seen a full gear spreadsheet (like Dretar used to make, among others) it's not as visible on how small changes (or larger) affect me.
Conform or be cast out.
My Demon Hunter: http://tinyurl.com/anufqzj Yes, THAT Analogkid- pissing off Hunters since 2007.
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Taliesyn-2517/hero/66020932
I suppose once I get another gift I'll be able to test it out and compare for myself.
Conform or be cast out.
My Demon Hunter: http://tinyurl.com/anufqzj Yes, THAT Analogkid- pissing off Hunters since 2007.
If it's a choice between 2.84 Etrayu and 2.16 Manticore, I'd stick with the Etrayu. No math to support that point, but I can suggest at least two reasons :
- you don't have all that much cold damage to begin with, so the 17% from your bow is very valuable
- 2.84 AS also means almost guaranteed uptime on bane of the trapped, which also makes for a significant increase in dps and survivability both
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Taliesyn-2517/hero/66020932
i'm using a calamity with the 2.84 bp atm, didnt find an etrayu yet, y play in groups but without a WD so i think its good still overall for the buff to everyone else !
Etrayu is the best weapon for solo play. Why? Because you can reach 2.84 comfortably without sacrificing any big damage stats, and cold is the preferred build in solo since you need the slow from frost arrow to proc Cull/Trapped reliably.
With absolutely perfect gear (calamity with 7% ias, 7% WH, 7% lacunis, 7% rorg, 20% rucksack, 50%/7% taskers, 10% paragon without taking away cc/chd), the 4.15 calamity might be better, but this is completely out of the question for nearly all demon hunters, so it's usually not even taken into consideration.
2.84 xbow setups is the best for group play. Why? Because you usually want to play Fire in group (So etrayu is out), and reaching the breakpoint becomes easy with a witch doctor that uses Starmetal Kukri for 100% big bad voodoo uptime. This secures 20% extra ias that you can not get in solo play, which means the higher breakpoints are reachable without sacrifices on gear. This is why xbows are preferred over bows in this scenario.
So you can see there isn't just a one-size-fits-all answer to bis weapon, as it depends what you are doing, and what you have available to you.
So best in slot usually comes down to this:
Solo: Cold build w. 2.84 etryau or cold build with 4.15 calamity ( perfect gear required)
Group: Fire build w. 2.84 xbow or lightning build with 4.15 helltrapper (requires voodoo for both)
Interesting, why go pure fire in groups though? In groups the DH is the main (or one of the main) damage dealers. Aside from the slow the hybrid build does more damage in general doesn't it? (maelstrom takes advantage of ballistics, loaded for bear doesn't). You can't really stack more fire damage either because magefist and cindercoat are not options (tasker & theo, maurader's chest).