Okay, Here is the situation. I have a friend, best friend really who loves to play D3 is a good player but relies on his own intuition or knowledge and doesn't do any research really on to whats good and why.
With that being said, he has a DH with 6 Pc Mara running sentries. Currently using a fairly well rolled Kridershot that generates 4 hatred. He is sold that it is the only way to go.. BiS and nothing else could possibly compare. is this the case? I hear rumblings that going 1H Xbow with high damage is better, if so why is this? Can anyone provide me insight as I do not play DH, but more just want information on the class so I can understand what people are doing.
Krider with sentries in 2.1 (and only in 2.1) is one of the best combos out there because you can have 3 spenders, so your sentry will never, ever, shoot a normal bolt, boosting your overall damage. Can't tell if its the BiS (This is so hard in D3) but it is a powerfull combo indeed. But ONLY in 2.1 since this patch fix a bug in sentry rotation with Elemental Arrow. Right now, a really good Buriza is probably better than Kridershot.
I'd like to try Natalya's slayer with a high dmg roll but that would be the only 1hander I'd consider. Right now I have the ring and chest equipped and I'd like to exchange one for a Unity or a Cindercoat respectively.
On the ptr i have 2 dh's 1 lightning and 1 cold for ptr's sake, both have kridershot, 6pc mara bonus, 3 pc natalya bonus (for insane amt of disc for SS)
Both are very powerful builds when you get past grifts lvl 30+ the dmg is very good and the cc is insane.
for cold using 2 spenders, frost arrow and CA, i opted to not use a third spender and i'm using mfd (contagion) instead, as well as using the cull the weak passive + archery
for lightning, still using 2 spenders, lightning balls and CA, the same spec, using mfd (contagion), not using cull the weak for passive
i'm literally torn which one to use as both are very very good. i did notice that fire build is suffering due to lack of cc on higher grift levels so that's out of the question.
Chanon bolter... BIS for end game tier 6 and 25+ greater rifts hands down.... kridershot is garbage as elemental arrow takes up a third "hatred spender" in your skill layout which your sentries wont cast.
Optimal skill layout is Multishot - ClusterArrow - Sentry - Vault - Companion - Spike Trap (if chanon bolter) or a defensive cooldown
if you dont have hexing, you want to spam cluster on sentry cooldown times..
Krider is hyped way up because it offers a way to feel like your breaking the game.. but put numbers to paper, and you will be gimped the second you walk into a game w/ Real t6 sub 6 DH's
Chanon bolter... BIS for end game tier 6 and 25+ greater rifts hands down.... kridershot is garbage as elemental arrow takes up a third "hatred spender" in your skill layout which your sentries wont cast.
Optimal skill layout is Multishot - ClusterArrow - Sentry - Vault - Companion - Spike Trap (if chanon bolter) or a defensive cooldown
if you dont have hexing, you want to spam cluster on sentry cooldown times..
Krider is hyped way up because it offers a way to feel like your breaking the game.. but put numbers to paper, and you will be gimped the second you walk into a game w/ Real t6 sub 6 DH's
you must've not read my post, kridershot is not garbage if you know how to use it.
you must've not read my post, kridershot is not garbage if you know how to use it.
I don't believe he's talking ptr. As I think OP is asking for current information and not ptr builds.
fair enough
then on live, kridershot is not a very good bow atm for ANY CA builds. Buriza, chanon, or any other high dmg xbow really is the best to do a sentry ca build.
On live, anything but a Buriza with HA or Chanon Bolter with Spike Trap is underpar - this beacuse of bugged spenders/sentries that will screw attack speed; since more AS will net you only additional bolts, a high dmg weapon (read 2h) is highly favored until you have a very crap 2h xbow and a very good 1h/bow (like i have a nearly perfect Natalya and a not that good Buriza).
On PTR/2.1 this has been fixed; using a low cost spender will finally replace any standard sentry bolt with EA/Chakram (i'm not still sure about impale, someone needs to run an only Impale build and see hw often it fires).
First, this bring other weapons buch higher than before - a faster spamming playstyle may be not optimal, but at least it's not total garbage; second, Kridershot effectively makes you run a 3 spender build with generator so it's viability is greatly increased (you can use it for any build due to it having a rune for every element type needed).
Here's the stupid DH noob again with some follow-up questions:
1) I read everywhere that IAS is "bugged", but no specifics. Afaik, higher IAS might net you more DPS thanks to more bolts/rockets being fired (at least with CA/MS), if you get to higher breakpoints. What's the problem with that? Or is the complaint simply that it should be changed as to how WD pets work (IAS contributes to DPS increase, not IAS increase of pets/turrets)?
2) As far as I understand the topic, the question of "Kridershot BiS" has nothing to do with Kridershot's OP legendary affix but just the fact that it's a high DPS 2h weapon, right? At least pre-2.1. In general it seems like bows > crossbows > hand crossbows simply because of their higher damage, right? So wouldn't any other (high damage rolled) bow like Windforce, Cluckeye and so on be as good as a Kridershot since the legendary affix seems to be not that useful for a Marauder DH?
Unfortunately the armory doesn't help a lot because it shows low-level versions of all the other weapons and Diabloprogress doesn't have an item search anymore as it used to have, so I can't see level 70 rolls on all weapons. If someone had screenshots of a couple of bows/xbows/hand-xbows at 70 to enlighten me what's the difference and all that, I'd be super happy to see my wrong thinking corrected.
Oh, and I guess I should use my Natalya's over my Windforce - right? (Yes, they're both crap, but I haven't played my DH a lot so those are the only two weapons I got so far - from DH friends, haven't found a single weapon on my own ;-))
Here's the stupid DH noob again with some follow-up questions:
1) I read everywhere that IAS is "bugged", but no specifics. Afaik, higher IAS might net you more DPS thanks to more bolts/rockets being fired (at least with CA/MS), if you get to higher breakpoints. What's the problem with that? Or is the complaint simply that it should be changed as to how WD pets work (IAS contributes to DPS increase, not IAS increase of pets/turrets)?
2) As far as I understand the topic, the question of "Kridershot BiS" has nothing to do with Kridershot's OP legendary affix but just the fact that it's a high DPS 2h weapon, right? At least pre-2.1. In general it seems like bows > crossbows > hand crossbows simply because of their higher damage, right? So wouldn't any other (high damage rolled) bow like Windforce, Cluckeye and so on be as good as a Kridershot since the legendary affix seems to be not that useful for a Marauder DH?
Unfortunately the armory doesn't help a lot because it shows low-level versions of all the other weapons and Diabloprogress doesn't have an item search anymore as it used to have, so I can't see level 70 rolls on all weapons. If someone had screenshots of a couple of bows/xbows/hand-xbows at 70 to enlighten me what's the difference and all that, I'd be super happy to see my wrong thinking corrected.
Oh, and I guess I should use my Natalya's over my Windforce - right? (Yes, they're both crap, but I haven't played my DH a lot so those are the only two weapons I got so far - from DH friends, haven't found a single weapon on my own ;-))
just adding to the Kuroneer's post - atm on live due to the bug he explained, only useful combo for turrets is MS + CA. Other low cost abilities will end you doing less total damage. Also for the same reason, due to 2.1 fix, Impale has been discovered as a great skill to have for your Mara6 setup.
As for the weapons, just try the one that suits you better - Windforce knockbak is a useful CC and if you manage to get a pair of stringarm you can also make use of the special for additional free damage. I use a Natalya because it just happened to roll nearly perfect stats so it nets better for me compared to my other weapons.
I want to add some thoughts. Pre 2.1 Kridershot is because of the earlier mentioned things (IAS Sentry Bug) not BIS, as long as you have an equivalent dps 2h-xbow like Buriza.
So with 2.1 this will change and you want to get three spenders with Maraudon 6p. There are two options for that:
a) Kridershot
2h-xbow without hatred generator
Then Kridershot could become BIS because you get a free hatred spender (EA) which will also generate hatred and so you get the benefit of active nuking with your DH -> LoH (and of course Area Damage). If you want to play 3 spenders without Kridershot you will have to play without hatred generator or without smoke screen (or vault).
So let's think of a nearly perfect rolled Kridershot with ~2800 dps -> what elemental do you want to play?!
- Physical: Cluster Arrow (1200% Shooting Star with Ballistics), Impale (750% Impact @ stunlock or 2475% crits Grievous Wounds) and of course Elemental Damage (300% Nether Tentacles) -> Multishot (460% Full Broadside) would also be an option.
- Fire: Cluster Arrow (770% Loaded for Bear), Multishot (360% aoe + 900% at three targets Arsenal), Elemental Arrow (300% Screaming Scull with fear)
- Cold: Cluster Arrow (2250% five targets Maelstrom), Impale (620% straight pirece Overpenetration) and Elemental Arrow (330% Frost Arrow, up to 3630% when hit 11 enemies)
With a physical build Tasker and Theo are best in slot. On a fire build Cindercoat could beat Tasker and Theo and on a frost build Tusker and Theo or Frostburn should be BIS (depending on DPS vs. CC).
At the moment I play a physical build (CA/MS) with Tasker and Theo and I'm wielding a Buriza. But with 2.1 maybe a cold build could be better in higher greater rifts. You get perma slow, 20% overall damage (Cull the Weak) a nice heal with Maelstrom and you get the best rune of Elemental Damage (all other runes except Ball Lightning are much weaker).
Maybe it is worth it playing phyical build with Frost Arrow? What do you think? Frost Arrow is by far the strongest EA-rune.
I'm currently going with Frost Arrow in a physical build with TnT on the PTR and loving it. Using Frost Arrow and pairing it with Cull the Weak.
I have analmost perfect Kridershot and an almost perfect Demon Machine. Kridershot gives me 4.7% dps, but the xbow performs better, because of the attack speed bug as the others say. I've tested them in PTR and Kridershot performed much better. I hope this helps you. Here is a pic of them.
With that being said, he has a DH with 6 Pc Mara running sentries. Currently using a fairly well rolled Kridershot that generates 4 hatred. He is sold that it is the only way to go.. BiS and nothing else could possibly compare. is this the case? I hear rumblings that going 1H Xbow with high damage is better, if so why is this? Can anyone provide me insight as I do not play DH, but more just want information on the class so I can understand what people are doing.
if that matters at all.
Dmg range of xbow with a min of 2k dmg is ideal for 2h xbow.
Kridershot isn't necessary and is far from the BiS
Kridershot is BiS as hatred generator, but at least as of 2.06, using it sux.
WD Season 8 https://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/finiar-1655/Kildare/84509816
Monk season 7 http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/finiar-1655/MojoJoJo/42225505
DH season 6 http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/finiar-1655/DeadShot/75655606
Angry Chicken http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/finiar-1655/WhoDoVooDoo/68187610
What? Me worry?
Both are very powerful builds when you get past grifts lvl 30+ the dmg is very good and the cc is insane.
for cold using 2 spenders, frost arrow and CA, i opted to not use a third spender and i'm using mfd (contagion) instead, as well as using the cull the weak passive + archery
for lightning, still using 2 spenders, lightning balls and CA, the same spec, using mfd (contagion), not using cull the weak for passive
i'm literally torn which one to use as both are very very good. i did notice that fire build is suffering due to lack of cc on higher grift levels so that's out of the question.
Optimal skill layout is Multishot - ClusterArrow - Sentry - Vault - Companion - Spike Trap (if chanon bolter) or a defensive cooldown
if you dont have hexing, you want to spam cluster on sentry cooldown times..
Krider is hyped way up because it offers a way to feel like your breaking the game.. but put numbers to paper, and you will be gimped the second you walk into a game w/ Real t6 sub 6 DH's
then on live, kridershot is not a very good bow atm for ANY CA builds. Buriza, chanon, or any other high dmg xbow really is the best to do a sentry ca build.
On PTR/2.1 this has been fixed; using a low cost spender will finally replace any standard sentry bolt with EA/Chakram (i'm not still sure about impale, someone needs to run an only Impale build and see hw often it fires).
First, this bring other weapons buch higher than before - a faster spamming playstyle may be not optimal, but at least it's not total garbage; second, Kridershot effectively makes you run a 3 spender build with generator so it's viability is greatly increased (you can use it for any build due to it having a rune for every element type needed).
Here's the stupid DH noob again with some follow-up questions:
1) I read everywhere that IAS is "bugged", but no specifics. Afaik, higher IAS might net you more DPS thanks to more bolts/rockets being fired (at least with CA/MS), if you get to higher breakpoints. What's the problem with that? Or is the complaint simply that it should be changed as to how WD pets work (IAS contributes to DPS increase, not IAS increase of pets/turrets)?
2) As far as I understand the topic, the question of "Kridershot BiS" has nothing to do with Kridershot's OP legendary affix but just the fact that it's a high DPS 2h weapon, right? At least pre-2.1. In general it seems like bows > crossbows > hand crossbows simply because of their higher damage, right? So wouldn't any other (high damage rolled) bow like Windforce, Cluckeye and so on be as good as a Kridershot since the legendary affix seems to be not that useful for a Marauder DH?
Unfortunately the armory doesn't help a lot because it shows low-level versions of all the other weapons and Diabloprogress doesn't have an item search anymore as it used to have, so I can't see level 70 rolls on all weapons. If someone had screenshots of a couple of bows/xbows/hand-xbows at 70 to enlighten me what's the difference and all that, I'd be super happy to see my wrong thinking corrected.
Oh, and I guess I should use my Natalya's over my Windforce - right? (Yes, they're both crap, but I haven't played my DH a lot so those are the only two weapons I got so far - from DH friends, haven't found a single weapon on my own ;-))
As for the weapons, just try the one that suits you better - Windforce knockbak is a useful CC and if you manage to get a pair of stringarm you can also make use of the special for additional free damage. I use a Natalya because it just happened to roll nearly perfect stats so it nets better for me compared to my other weapons.