I could see something like this being very effective on specific encounters (or until we start meeting mobs that consistently have high stun mitigation). Since it's been stated that there are NO diminishing returns on stuns I can definitely see something like this being viable, especially paired with party members who can rotate additional stuns in sequence.
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To Jay Wilson and everyone else: Diablo 3 can be competitive without being an E-Sport.
What is stun mitigation if there are no DR's? Stuns only last half as long in inferno or something?
Is there actual confirmation of this anywhere or is it all assumed somewhere?
Even if the stun duration is cut in half, with fast attack speed you could pump out so many grenades and knives that it would still keep them stunned a huge chunk of the time.
At 3 APS even ordinary grenades only lasting one second, they could keep a mob stunned most of the time.
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"Just google "diablo 3 gold guide" and magical rainbow covered demons will assault your eyes."
Will the mobs or bosses have diminishing returns/immunity on stun/slow/fear abilities? Or stunlocking them in inferno with 4 barbarians its totally possible?
JayWilson: Elite mobs (bosses, champions, rares) are affected to a lesser degree by control skills, and are immune to a select few. We do not have a system for diminishing returns, as we want CC to be useful even against bosses.
Props to you D 3 devs for not making this game shit by following the wow raid design where virtually everything is about meeting DPS points rather than control and utility.
Ask yourself how many useless abilities and runes there would be if CC became relatively worthless in Inferno. It really just makes sense, and hopefully tweaked by giving monsters certain counters (like reflecting the cc, or mirroring it, etc.) or simply adding X% resistance (meaning chance to miss the cc, which I think jay is referring to).
TONS of ways to tweak the cc system to where cc remains a viable strategy, but requires skill and coordination to make it effective. Hopefully they do a good job.
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To Jay Wilson and everyone else: Diablo 3 can be competitive without being an E-Sport.
Will the mobs or bosses have diminishing returns/immunity on stun/slow/fear abilities? Or stunlocking them in inferno with 4 barbarians its totally possible?
JayWilson: Elite mobs (bosses, champions, rares) are affected to a lesser degree by control skills, and are immune to a select few. We do not have a system for diminishing returns, as we want CC to be useful even against bosses.
Props to you D 3 devs for not making this game shit by following the wow raid design.
Or the D2 design where bosses weren't affected at all....
But yah, according to that this idea is solid. It will absolutely dominate trash, which in itself is quite important, even in inferno.
Could potentially even work well against bosses, champions and rares as you are still doing quite a bit of dmg.
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One is never hurt by being given additional choices, only by taking them away. A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
Objective is to keep mobs permanently stunned, so your team can annihilate them.
This build concept is 1st degree demon RAPE.
EDIT: Elemental Arrow - Lightning bolts - also stuns when it crits.
Very close to my control build.
http://us.battle.net...hYdP!Vcg!YaYZZa
to clarify I picked cull of hte weak over archery because I would likely use a hxb over anything else with this set up for more stun output and I expect everything to be snared and 15% dmg > 10% crit. Especially since there is nothing in my build that plays off crit.
However, if I got a good bow I would switch Cull of the weak out for archery. If I had a good Xbow I would go with a crit centric build and have archery.
It will be essential to have a lot of CC in your group come inferno. DH actually gets the short end of the stick for CC effects as they are all procs, aside from vault- runed and caltrops- runed.
I'm surprised how many people overlook how good numbing traps can be for ranged mobs and bosses. It's nicer with spike trap since you can target that but it's still very good. I haven't seen a single DH build that used it.
It will be essential to have a lot of CC in your group come inferno. DH actually gets the short end of the stick for CC effects as they are all procs, aside from vault- runed and caltrops- runed.
I'm surprised how many people overlook how good numbing traps can be for ranged mobs and bosses. It's nicer with spike trap since you can target that but it's still very good. I haven't seen a single DH build that used it.
no one else can spam a constant barrage of stuns though....
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"Just google "diablo 3 gold guide" and magical rainbow covered demons will assault your eyes."
I think anything past 2 or 3 stunning abilities is overkill for abilities since alternatives could provide additional survability/utility/damage w/e
As such my StunHunter build would be as follows http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#UZkYPX!geZ!YaYZaZ
I took Stun grenade for hate generation and workaday stuns. The chance isn't very high but its spammable and quasi-AoE.
Impale is high damage and hatred dump for single targets. Its also got stun AND knockback with a high success chance making it invaluable against rares and bosses.
Cluster Arrow is probably the best "aoe" w/ stun attached ability available. Its not really any better at stunning than stun grenade but it does a lot more damage, and if nothign else is cheaper with grenadier passive.
I went with Sentry since its a fire and forget type of DPS that will supplement damage while not hnding my ability to chain stun. I went with Aid Station but guardian or spitfire are viable too.
Caltops are there to give me more time to stun approaching enemies, and Smoke Screen as my get out of jail free card when RNG inevitably screws me.
I want to like Fan of knives and RoV as emergeancy tools, but the short range on FoK and the delay before the stun/dmg on RoV really limits their utility as "Oh crap" buttons.
I also liek Thrill of the Hunt for a control based build sicne someone told me it affects each target indivually, and its much easier to hit targets that aren't moving with your grenades ( since they have travel time and then the bounce before they explode) and thus start the chain of stuns.
If you are in a group, and you have caltrops that completely stop movement for 2 seconds, and you have a shitload of stuns, then what is the point of smoke screen?
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Do you want to get scammed? Perhaps a nice keylogger?
"Just google "diablo 3 gold guide" and magical rainbow covered demons will assault your eyes."
If you are in a group, and you have caltrops that completely stop movement for 2 seconds, and you have a shitload of stuns, then what is the point of smoke screen?
Because sometimes stuff just goes wrong, like the RNG gods screwing me on stun procs or me whiffing with caltrops. Besides other than Marked for Death or maybe Bat/ferret companion there's really not anything else the build needs or can afford. Basically I could take FoK or RoV, but if I need them its an emergency and Smoke Screen is better at ensuring I survive... and I didn't take Mark/companion since I'm not sure I'd have the discipline to support their use. They are viable options but I was going for personal survability first and foremost since although the build is group orientated you can't count on anyone else to save you.
there seem to be no need for fan of knives in the build, you cant possibly use everything.
FoK is pretty good damage and in my particular build it's an Oh shit for me. It will also help when I'm vaulting into mobs to help peel for somebody else it gives me more time to get out. Not to mention it's - 25% dmg for 3 seconds for mobs and bosses that do get to close to me or others.
Fok does a shitload of dmg, in a rather large area, with a great slow component, low cost, and has the best chance to stun outside RoV.
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"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"
FoK seems pretty damn solid if you make a build completely around it. I just don't see how it would be necessary to spend a skill slot on it when smoke screen is by far the best escape mechanic in the game and all you really need.
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To Jay Wilson and everyone else: Diablo 3 can be competitive without being an E-Sport.
FoK seems pretty damn solid if you make a build completely around it. I just don't see how it would be necessary to spend a skill slot on it when smoke screen is by far the best escape mechanic in the game and all you really need.
Because smokescreen doesn't reduce the mobs dmg by 25% for 3 second, for others not just yourself, while doing good damage and peeling for your party members.
No but multiple other abilities do those exact things either more efficiently or without sacrificing positioning. Given how ridiculously good SS is going to be for your own escape, choosing FoK over, say, traps which can be maneuvered around the battlefield providing the damage debuff, caltrops which has a longer and more effective snare (runed), or another ranged aoe stun effect that doesn't require melee range seems like a gimped choice to make. To each their own. I do think it's an interesting build, and will be a STAPLE of mine if SS if nerfed, but until then I can't see any build not taking SS and i see no need for ANY additional personal defense given how ridiculous it is for escape.
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To Jay Wilson and everyone else: Diablo 3 can be competitive without being an E-Sport.
No but multiple other abilities do those exact things either more efficiently or without sacrificing positioning. Given how ridiculously good SS is going to be for your own escape, choosing FoK over, say, traps which can be maneuvered around the battlefield providing the damage debuff, caltrops which has a longer and more effective snare (runed), or another ranged aoe stun effect that doesn't require melee range seems like a gimped choice to make. To each their own. I do think it's an interesting build, and will be a STAPLE of mine if SS if nerfed, but until then I can't see any build not taking SS and i see no need for ANY additional personal defense given how ridiculous it is for escape.
Grenades are midrange at best. I'll be fairly close to everything. Thats why caltrops roots, vault stuns, and FoK is there
I would say If i went with different generator than grenades I would change the build significantly.
Elemental Arrow - Lightning Bolts should be a really powerful stun tool. Use a fast weapon, throw a Mark of Death or two with hatred proc on a pack of champions and fire away. 40% crit is not unrealistic to achieve and you can almost stunlock someone (well no, reduced stun duration in Inferno). It also synergizes well with a disc on crit build and an abusive use of Smoke Screen.
That is assuming that the disc on crit doesn't have an internal cooldown or is on a cast per cast basis, which I think is almost a certainty. Even on a cast by cast basic you could still get a lot of disc with that passive though. 3 APS would not be hard for a DH, which given a good crit% would be maybe 3-4 disc per second.
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"Just google "diablo 3 gold guide" and magical rainbow covered demons will assault your eyes."
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Objective is to keep mobs permanently stunned, so your team can annihilate them.
This build concept is 1st degree demon RAPE.
EDIT:
Elemental Arrow - Lightning bolts - also stuns when it crits.
Vault - Rattling roll - also stuns on destination
"Just google "diablo 3 gold guide" and magical rainbow covered demons will assault your eyes."
http://diablo3onfarm.wordpress.com/ - Your source for efficient Diablo 3 Farming and news from a unique perspective.
btw, correct me if i got that wrong, might have missunderstood what jay meant.
Is there actual confirmation of this anywhere or is it all assumed somewhere?
Even if the stun duration is cut in half, with fast attack speed you could pump out so many grenades and knives that it would still keep them stunned a huge chunk of the time.
At 3 APS even ordinary grenades only lasting one second, they could keep a mob stunned most of the time.
"Just google "diablo 3 gold guide" and magical rainbow covered demons will assault your eyes."
JayWilson: Elite mobs (bosses, champions, rares) are affected to a lesser degree by control skills, and are immune to a select few. We do not have a system for diminishing returns, as we want CC to be useful even against bosses.
Props to you D 3 devs for not making this game shit by following the wow raid design where virtually everything is about meeting DPS points rather than control and utility.
Ask yourself how many useless abilities and runes there would be if CC became relatively worthless in Inferno. It really just makes sense, and hopefully tweaked by giving monsters certain counters (like reflecting the cc, or mirroring it, etc.) or simply adding X% resistance (meaning chance to miss the cc, which I think jay is referring to).
TONS of ways to tweak the cc system to where cc remains a viable strategy, but requires skill and coordination to make it effective. Hopefully they do a good job.
http://diablo3onfarm.wordpress.com/ - Your source for efficient Diablo 3 Farming and news from a unique perspective.
But yah, according to that this idea is solid. It will absolutely dominate trash, which in itself is quite important, even in inferno.
Could potentially even work well against bosses, champions and rares as you are still doing quite a bit of dmg.
A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
Very close to my control build.
http://us.battle.net...hYdP!Vcg!YaYZZa
to clarify I picked cull of hte weak over archery because I would likely use a hxb over anything else with this set up for more stun output and I expect everything to be snared and 15% dmg > 10% crit. Especially since there is nothing in my build that plays off crit.
However, if I got a good bow I would switch Cull of the weak out for archery. If I had a good Xbow I would go with a crit centric build and have archery.
A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
It will be essential to have a lot of CC in your group come inferno. DH actually gets the short end of the stick for CC effects as they are all procs, aside from vault- runed and caltrops- runed.
I'm surprised how many people overlook how good numbing traps can be for ranged mobs and bosses. It's nicer with spike trap since you can target that but it's still very good. I haven't seen a single DH build that used it.
no one else can spam a constant barrage of stuns though....
"Just google "diablo 3 gold guide" and magical rainbow covered demons will assault your eyes."
As such my StunHunter build would be as follows http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#UZkYPX!geZ!YaYZaZ
I took Stun grenade for hate generation and workaday stuns. The chance isn't very high but its spammable and quasi-AoE.
Impale is high damage and hatred dump for single targets. Its also got stun AND knockback with a high success chance making it invaluable against rares and bosses.
Cluster Arrow is probably the best "aoe" w/ stun attached ability available. Its not really any better at stunning than stun grenade but it does a lot more damage, and if nothign else is cheaper with grenadier passive.
I went with Sentry since its a fire and forget type of DPS that will supplement damage while not hnding my ability to chain stun. I went with Aid Station but guardian or spitfire are viable too.
Caltops are there to give me more time to stun approaching enemies, and Smoke Screen as my get out of jail free card when RNG inevitably screws me.
I want to like Fan of knives and RoV as emergeancy tools, but the short range on FoK and the delay before the stun/dmg on RoV really limits their utility as "Oh crap" buttons.
I also liek Thrill of the Hunt for a control based build sicne someone told me it affects each target indivually, and its much easier to hit targets that aren't moving with your grenades ( since they have travel time and then the bounce before they explode) and thus start the chain of stuns.
"Just google "diablo 3 gold guide" and magical rainbow covered demons will assault your eyes."
Because sometimes stuff just goes wrong, like the RNG gods screwing me on stun procs or me whiffing with caltrops. Besides other than Marked for Death or maybe Bat/ferret companion there's really not anything else the build needs or can afford. Basically I could take FoK or RoV, but if I need them its an emergency and Smoke Screen is better at ensuring I survive... and I didn't take Mark/companion since I'm not sure I'd have the discipline to support their use. They are viable options but I was going for personal survability first and foremost since although the build is group orientated you can't count on anyone else to save you.
FoK is pretty good damage and in my particular build it's an Oh shit for me. It will also help when I'm vaulting into mobs to help peel for somebody else it gives me more time to get out. Not to mention it's - 25% dmg for 3 seconds for mobs and bosses that do get to close to me or others.
Epicurus
http://diablo3onfarm.wordpress.com/ - Your source for efficient Diablo 3 Farming and news from a unique perspective.
Because smokescreen doesn't reduce the mobs dmg by 25% for 3 second, for others not just yourself, while doing good damage and peeling for your party members.
http://diablo3onfarm.wordpress.com/ - Your source for efficient Diablo 3 Farming and news from a unique perspective.
Grenades are midrange at best. I'll be fairly close to everything. Thats why caltrops roots, vault stuns, and FoK is there
I would say If i went with different generator than grenades I would change the build significantly.
That is assuming that the disc on crit doesn't have an internal cooldown or is on a cast per cast basis, which I think is almost a certainty. Even on a cast by cast basic you could still get a lot of disc with that passive though. 3 APS would not be hard for a DH, which given a good crit% would be maybe 3-4 disc per second.
"Just google "diablo 3 gold guide" and magical rainbow covered demons will assault your eyes."