Well after some playing the shadow set seems really poor. It has most to do with pretty much all the legendaries for it being completely useless. The dagger that returns hatred when impale hits an already impaled target returns only 15 at maximum. In real in-game situations its nigh impossible to make any use of the returning hatred as one can be pretty damn sure that random monsters will always block the path to the target one actually wants to hit. This alone is also easily the biggest problem of the whole set. Sure it is nice to have good single target dmg, but getting to hit the one target that one wants just doesnt happen often enough. One simply ends up wasting all hatred on killing trash this way. (or wastes time killing the trash mobs using really weak chakram or even the fan of kniver or sticky bombs)
Its impossible to have two onehanders or dagger+1h crossbow so one is stuck with one sword/dagger and the chakram quiver (no other useful option). So basically one is forced into using a chakram and impale. Chakram even with the 1000% bonus does absolutely nothing, and even with the dagger that gives ~1.5% of dmg per hatred does barely make it useful in TX. And so theres the third option - increased dmg of fan of knives, which is kinda useful, but only twice per minute when it does the same damage as one impale, but to more targets. TBH having the demons demise (sticky trap spreads) was way more efficient than using any useless chakrams.
The crossbow that says "shadow power also triggers smoke screen" is completely pointless for this build, as it cant be equipped and must be in the cube.
The belt that removes vault discipline cost is also absolutely useless as 2 seconds equals 2 or three free vaults at best and as i have said, the build has problems with hatred so its not plausible to use impale every 2 seconds just to refresh this "buff.
So yeah, im extremely dissapointed so far. Sure, i might be missing some strong combination of items or what not, but the thing is, just equipping any of the DH sets without using any of the new items or without having the items with new rolls (like +100% dmg to multishot on DML, +100% dmg on sentries etc) is way stronger than any combination of shadow set items ive so far tried.
So what would i do? The 6p bonus could easily be changed significantly - the damage could easily be double or it could say "does 40000% dmg to ALL enemies it hits" and one would then use the piercing rune. Or impale could just pierce by default. The chakram quiver is useless and there is no other option to use with that build, if it rolled with 80-100% increased chakram dmg, then maybe it could be useful. The dagger that adds chakram dmg per hatred is imo completely terrible design that does nothing, or it could easily be double the bonus it gives now. The hatred returned dagger should roll up to 20 (but would mostly be solved by the set working with the piercing rune). The vault belt could read even as much as 5-6 seconds. And fan of knives dagger could add 2 stacks per second, or add double the damage with half the maximum stacks.
never, mind the PTR patch notes incorrectly list Manticore's buffs
Ah ok XD it would have been way too string for a Marauder setup (permaCA spam? no way).
However being the cost reduced by 60% (as it was datamined) the skill becaome much more efficient and definitely an option.
No, was trying to make it work with the chakram/impale related legendaries. I could (would want to) try more, but i cant connect to the server anymore, and i couldnt even get more act materials for cube to get all needed stuff in. ACT V bounty that has to do with some shamans is bugged and i got it in every single game....
I still se alot of options to make Shadow set work ... I really do hope it does. I've played to much M6, Nats and UE over the year/years. Last thing I want is to be a sentry placer again.
Well after some playing the shadow set seems really poor. It has most to do with pretty much all the legendaries for it being completely useless. The dagger that returns hatred when impale hits an already impaled target returns only 15 at maximum. In real in-game situations its nigh impossible to make any use of the returning hatred as one can be pretty damn sure that random monsters will always block the path to the target one actually wants to hit. This alone is also easily the biggest problem of the whole set. Sure it is nice to have good single target dmg, but getting to hit the one target that one wants just doesnt happen often enough. One simply ends up wasting all hatred on killing trash this way. (or wastes time killing the trash mobs using really weak chakram or even the fan of kniver or sticky bombs)
It's difficult to do, but it just takes time to learn how the spec plays. It seems damn near impossible at first, but like every thing, it gets easier over time. Check out this old video of Grim Sever(what Shadows set is loosely designed after): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jD2HaBhUzbw
The gameplay is slightly different now, but he's using Grievous Wounds and I think this video illustrates that it is definitely possible.This was done with M6 originally because it was our only set that effected Impale during this patch. If Sentries killed the monster it didn't work. You had to be very precise with your throws to kill monsters marked with MFD before your sentries did. Grievous Wound being single target with no pierce or bounces made this even harder to pull off. Considering all of this, I think it shows you can definitely hit the same target over and over with enough practice, even with other monsters getting in the way.
I used to play Grim Sever before it got nerfed, and it took me about 1 month of playing every day before I could play it properly. I could see the same happening with S6 if you aren't used to it. But once your used to it killing monsters takes less concentration, as it becomes more muscle memory, and you can focus on dodging stuff and resource levels.
Biggest gripe for me is that the only actual "usable" chakram rune is the Cold one which has a decent pathing. Other runes really suck compared to it.
However, i'm thinking about another combination of skills - though the fact we cannot put a melee weapon in offhand makes hard to choose between the actual skills.
Ideal build that revolves around physical dmg and it's a really melee spec.
(5th passive from hellfire is obviously awareness, and in general opassive can be juggled based on what you feel better).
I took MfD/Grim reaper, but Vault can be an option if i find i need mobility more than damage. The idea is that if i have enough aoe for packs through FoK/Cloud and generator, Impale will be used only on guardian - Otherwise grim reaper will trump over easily
Gear:
Shadow x6
Chakram Quiver since it's the only viable option and it increases chakram damage
Chakram Sword for better damage (independently from the special)
Hellfire amu for 5th passive
rings: either F/R or new Endlelss Walk depending if i find myself to be more stationary than moving
belt: likely String of Ears, due to being in melee
bracers: the ones that trigger dmg reduction with generators since i use one of them.
Cubed: FoK dagger for more aoe, Elusive ring for dmg reduction - can either be triggered by Vault if use it, or by casting SP. Still armor slot is empty, i'll check after what are the possible candidates since i didn't find anything specific.
I like the looks of this, but don't forget that FoK has no character animation and you can use other skills while using FoK. You could switch it to FoK-Knives Expert and spam FoK while also spamming Bola, might not work out to well with the Dagger's time requirement for the buff, but even still. A constant 250% more damage while spamming both Bola and FoK would be nice.
In regards to chakram, have you tried Razor Disc? It works like Cluster Arrow, it goes directly to where you clicked, damaging enemies along the way and at the location, and then spirals outward hitting others.
I was thinking of a similar build Coldkil, but I really want to find a place for Vault in there, probably with Action Shot, I just don't know where to put it
I see a lot of people including Shuriken Cloud in their S6 specs, but if they haven't increased the Radius and the Tick Rate (its only once per sec atm) of the Cloud, I think it would be kind of useless unfortunately. The skill just doesn't deal enough damage and you have to be way to close for comfort imo, if you had Chak-SC included, you could probably drop it for Action Shot.
Not trying to sound so negative/pretentious about it's uses here, I just think the skill is designed terribly in a lot of ways and doesn't have much of a use for the DH in it's current form. Just my 2 cents on the skill.
If i manage to get into PTR i can try different setups - let's see what can be done.
FoK is not a great spammable skill due to his high cost and no actual reliable way to get hatred back - at least with a melee build. Better to use it as CD and let the dagger stack up a little for better burst.
Likely swapping to Grenades as builder for more uptime of Numbing Traps.
I would like to put Vault too in the build and make use of the belt, but Grim Reaper looks mandatory and very likley we will end choosing between it and shuriken cloud.
Until Razor Disk proves to be good enough as a builder.
FoK with pinpoint accuracy is amazing during lightning convention proc and with the FoK dagger in cube.
Was hitting for over 400B with it on big packs of mobs, with a 1900 dagger. I managed to get a 2900 dagger a few min ago (though I can't get on ptr right now due to error 3006). I'm assuming the damage will be even higher once I use that one.
Must say the shadow set is fun and unique, it does take a lot of getting used to but it also has a lot of custom options. Personally I use the lightning rune of bola with the bola quiver for discipline regen on explosion which gives me a bit more vaults, without running with the vault belt in cube.
All in all, go for a lot of area damage, it gets pretty hillarious at some point when you go over 100% AD.
Managed to get into PTR last night, didn't have the chance of doing much since i had not much gear available and ended testing new marauder build.
New Aurora xbow is awesome. Nearly 100% Vengeance uptime with old gear (likely stat priority have shifted and i'm still going with gear from the very first Marauder set) which will reach easily 100% with enough CDR.
Tried a TX rift and i got instagibbed multiple times - but ithis is clearly due to old gear which wasn't focusing on survivability at all and i had like 300k hp. Didn't get to drop the companions belt nor Garwulf so no damage reduction from anything. Still, damage was more than fine as elite packs were falling easily - i finished the rift with not that much issues (or better, didmn't expect more with random thrown gear).
I also didn't have Manticore nor new Sentry quiver (so no 100% dmg increase for Sentries) - efficiency was really low.
I ran with Shooting stars, Enforcer/Zei/Trapped. If we're not cubing RoRG, we have to choose between Garwulf and T&T (at least for a pet focused build).
Just tried some stuff with the unhallowed essence. Pretty much the same stuff as in 2.3 except:
in cube - dawn (reduces cooldown of vengeance), the new helmet (vengeance gets 50% dmg reduction), obsidian ring
on myself - unhallowed essence, wraps of clarity, witching hour, cindercoat, rorg, endless walk set, jangs recurve and DML
Can easily achieve 100% uptime of vengeance without using any cooldown anywhere (without zodiac 60% cooldown reduction is needed and imo it isnt worth it going full cooldown rather than just going for zodiac and rorg). Hatred is just about not running out with seethe (reduced cost on bow, shoulders, gloves and hatred regen on quiver and follower). Using the boar companion. Only the generator slot seems kinda wasted as it only procs the wraps of clarity, but without those it would not work well. Definitely is way stronger that in 2.3
Basically one loses 25% dmg from F&R and 50% from convention, but with those the uptime of vengeance wont reach 100% (with 60% cooldown it would, but i dont think it would be worth losing all the other stats). One gains some fire % from having cindercoat equipped. Also the endless walk ring has extra stat compared to F&R and generally it can get (the setup) significantly more toughness than the F&R. Also not sure if cindercoats +20% fire outweighs 12 discipline from unhallowed cloak. If not then i guess this setup sucks or one would have cindercoat in cube and the helmet equipped.
Perheaps using F&R, dawn, cindercoat and elusive ring in cube without the helmet and cooldown everywhere would turn out better. Ill try some marauder stuff now.
EDIT: tied the FR setup, seems about the same after 1 rift, but the hatred is a problem. The first setup might end up being better, but without the zodiac (instead COE or elusive?) and cooldown everywhere. But then again the hatred would become a problem. But i guess with perfect gear it would work out.
Ok, i absolutely need the full shadow set to try stuff out. I have possibly found another way that looks pretty good but also kinda hard to play.
Basically, i want to make use of both the Impale dagger and the Shadow chain that makes Vault free. In conjunction with Cindercoat a fire build looks promising
Basically Impale -> free vault -> repeat while FoKing and Shuriken deals damage. With RCR from Cindercoat Impale should be a "free cast". Still there will be issues with aiming which are tied to the impale skill tiself.
IF i can get a decent setup (eg 50% RCR at least) i could go full physical as i wanted and include Pain Enhancer in the mix
Don't know about Vault rune - action shot is a guaranteed 4 procs of PE, but Cinders have a way bigger aoe - need to test if it can proc PE and crits are actually hidden (iirc cots follow different mechanics).
EDIT: PE will proc easily AoE due to cloud critting a lot (1 aoe attack every second).
EDIT2: the more i tinker around, the more stuff i find that won't use (or is not recommended to) use F/R. Especially for the builds above, where we won't have an actual generator so i cannot proc both bonus buffs. Need to search what i can use instead.
EDIT3: also the more i look at FoK dagger, the more counterintuitive it looks. Skill has a short cd, still the dagger takes so long to stack. Using Stuff like Zodiac which should be a damage increase directly counters the dagger special. This weapon needs to be reworked - also Chakram sword being a sword it's just better.
Ok, dropped the new stuff for Marauder, it's insanely fun Dat 3 billion crits.
I'm still running Enforcer/Zei/Trapped, will likely drop Zei for a more reliable Stricken and Powerful for speed farming.
Garwulf seems the more balanced choice for cube, giving 12%-ish more dmg reduction and damage. The new helm is also really good as 50% dmg reduction baked on Vengeance is nice and uptime is really high with Dawn/Zodiac. Would like to try RoRG+T&T setup for even more pet damage.
Shadow set: a lot of the issues with this could be solved if Blizzard chnages the mechanics of Impale. Instead of colliding with the first monster on path, Impale just need to hit the monster we are currently pointing with the mouse. This way the skill stays a pure ST and doesn't need damage tuning, but we could actually make use of the Impale dagger and in general have more control on our damage.
Ok, dropped the new stuff for Marauder, it's insanely fun Dat 3 billion crits.
I'm still running Enforcer/Zei/Trapped, will likely drop Zei for a more reliable Stricken and Powerful for speed farming.
Garwulf seems the more balanced choice for cube, giving 12%-ish more dmg reduction and damage. The new helm is also really good as 50% dmg reduction baked on Vengeance is nice and uptime is really high with Dawn/Zodiac. Would like to try RoRG+T&T setup for even more pet damage.
Shadow set: a lot of the issues with this could be solved if Blizzard chnages the mechanics of Impale. Instead of colliding with the first monster on path, Impale just need to hit the monster we are currently pointing with the mouse. This way the skill stays a pure ST and doesn't need damage tuning, but we could actually make use of the Impale dagger and in general have more control on our damage.
I got a chance to get on the PTR and play with shadows 6 and personally, I completely disagree, I would be extremely disappointed if they change impales mechanics. For starters having it hit where you mouse is, would make the pierce and ricochet rune very clunky to use, they already go to your mouse cursor. Karlei's Point is actually useless, the damage you deal is so high that you pretty much 1 shot all monsters that you hit first with. I got up to grift 62 with 0 ancient items and a bad 1,8000 dmg dagger and I could never get the hatred return to happen because everything was dying in one shot. The dagger needs to be changed to something else in my opinion, maybe even just "RCR for Impale" would be sufficient, not as cool, but would definitely work.
I couldn't push much higher because of toughness issues, but I want to work on correcting those by swapping gear and try pushing higher again. Also, during these tests, I came across a Bug with Shadows 6 piece set that greatly reduces the Grift potential. Impale - Grievous Wounds does not work with the 6piece bonus of shadows set, it gets cancelled out and you do not gain an extra 330% CHD. Here's a video/bug report I made about it: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/19892439217#1
Cube:
-Demon's Demise
-Garwulf
-Convention of Elements
Basically, the Witching Hour and F&R are used to get the highest DPS possible, the Ess of Johan also helps with crowd control and DPS by allowing very potent procs of Area Damage. I stacked +100% area damage from my Weapon, Shoulders, Gloves and Paragon. Convention of Elements is also added for damage, but more impotantly, it makes Impales crit so absurdly high that when coupled with MFD-Grim Reaper, I was 1 shotting entire packs in Grift 62. CoE also works really well with DD+Sticky Trap, the constant AoE helps but when Fire rolls around, it would start to melt mobs. I took the rift gaurdian down in seconds with all this combined. Also Bola-Bitter Pill is lightening and Lightening comes just before phyiscal damage in CoE's rotation so it works out well. RW's were for more hatred but didn't seem to useful in the long run.
For defense I was using the 3 wolves from Garwulf much like M2 uses the Wolf, Spider and Boar as a pet wall. This helped hold monsters in place a bit, but more importantly it allowed me to forgo using Vault/smokescreen by using the pet wall and constant movement to stay alive. The enchantress also help with her own Ess of Johan and all of her CC skills.
In the end I found my toughness was far to low and that the impale dagger's returns were next to useless as I was 1 shotting everything. I want to try this all again, but with: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#WZTShj!acXi!ZabcZb
-Shadows 6 piece
-Not sure which weapon maybe Doombringer
-Lidless Wall
-Witching Hour/Zoey's Secret if Lidless and WoC aren't enough
-Wraps of Clarity
-F&R
-Ess of Johan
Cube:
-Demon's Demise
-Garwulf
-Convention of Elements
Since kerlei's is pointless I want to switch my weapon, not sure what yet. Lidless/WoC will add a lot more toughness and Zoey's secret might be a better choice than lidless wall, if so i can use HPS again. Also, since I found out impale-greivous wounds doesn't work, I'll switch to Implae - Impact for now. I also noticed that without Vault/Smokescreen, I had a ton of discipline available, so I switched to Bola - Thunder ball for extra hatred returns.
Like I said, the only issues I'm having when it comes to progress in Grifts is toughness. Impale is not easy to use, but it can be done with enough practice. I think you gave up to early. Add me in PTR, maybe we can mess around and theorycraft for a bit
Need to tool a little with the cube and offset pieces.
Running PE/Trapped/Iceblink for stacking crit and reliable slow - don't have a Stricken at hand to test.
Don't know how it will turn out - sure better than my previous try.
As for Impale: in fact the only two runes which are not cluncky to use are the two you losted. The other ones need better tuning, and as you said the hatred return from the dagger kinda sucks.
EDIT: i'll be kinda mad if the stronger shadow builds end to be another standard generator + Impale + pet setup like the other two sets we have (well, natalya is a bit different). They have designed different new legendaries tailored for the melee build, and they're at best mediocre options.
Not liking how it's turning out.
EDIT2: i've added you. If you're on you'll receive my request
never mind, the PTR patch notes incorrectly list Manticore's buffs
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/TastySouP-1157/career
Well after some playing the shadow set seems really poor. It has most to do with pretty much all the legendaries for it being completely useless. The dagger that returns hatred when impale hits an already impaled target returns only 15 at maximum. In real in-game situations its nigh impossible to make any use of the returning hatred as one can be pretty damn sure that random monsters will always block the path to the target one actually wants to hit. This alone is also easily the biggest problem of the whole set. Sure it is nice to have good single target dmg, but getting to hit the one target that one wants just doesnt happen often enough. One simply ends up wasting all hatred on killing trash this way. (or wastes time killing the trash mobs using really weak chakram or even the fan of kniver or sticky bombs)
Its impossible to have two onehanders or dagger+1h crossbow so one is stuck with one sword/dagger and the chakram quiver (no other useful option). So basically one is forced into using a chakram and impale. Chakram even with the 1000% bonus does absolutely nothing, and even with the dagger that gives ~1.5% of dmg per hatred does barely make it useful in TX. And so theres the third option - increased dmg of fan of knives, which is kinda useful, but only twice per minute when it does the same damage as one impale, but to more targets. TBH having the demons demise (sticky trap spreads) was way more efficient than using any useless chakrams.
The crossbow that says "shadow power also triggers smoke screen" is completely pointless for this build, as it cant be equipped and must be in the cube.
The belt that removes vault discipline cost is also absolutely useless as 2 seconds equals 2 or three free vaults at best and as i have said, the build has problems with hatred so its not plausible to use impale every 2 seconds just to refresh this "buff.
So yeah, im extremely dissapointed so far. Sure, i might be missing some strong combination of items or what not, but the thing is, just equipping any of the DH sets without using any of the new items or without having the items with new rolls (like +100% dmg to multishot on DML, +100% dmg on sentries etc) is way stronger than any combination of shadow set items ive so far tried.
So what would i do? The 6p bonus could easily be changed significantly - the damage could easily be double or it could say "does 40000% dmg to ALL enemies it hits" and one would then use the piercing rune. Or impale could just pierce by default. The chakram quiver is useless and there is no other option to use with that build, if it rolled with 80-100% increased chakram dmg, then maybe it could be useful. The dagger that adds chakram dmg per hatred is imo completely terrible design that does nothing, or it could easily be double the bonus it gives now. The hatred returned dagger should roll up to 20 (but would mostly be solved by the set working with the piercing rune). The vault belt could read even as much as 5-6 seconds. And fan of knives dagger could add 2 stacks per second, or add double the damage with half the maximum stacks.
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ModeratorHowever being the cost reduced by 60% (as it was datamined) the skill becaome much more efficient and definitely an option.
Have you tried this aproach to the Shadow set (Should read my coments aswell), this is the build I'm going to test once i get home from work.
http://www.diablofans.com/builds/67345-2-4-vengeful-shadow-darter
I still se alot of options to make Shadow set work ... I really do hope it does. I've played to much M6, Nats and UE over the year/years. Last thing I want is to be a sentry placer again.
It's difficult to do, but it just takes time to learn how the spec plays. It seems damn near impossible at first, but like every thing, it gets easier over time. Check out this old video of Grim Sever(what Shadows set is loosely designed after):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jD2HaBhUzbw
The gameplay is slightly different now, but he's using Grievous Wounds and I think this video illustrates that it is definitely possible.This was done with M6 originally because it was our only set that effected Impale during this patch. If Sentries killed the monster it didn't work. You had to be very precise with your throws to kill monsters marked with MFD before your sentries did. Grievous Wound being single target with no pierce or bounces made this even harder to pull off. Considering all of this, I think it shows you can definitely hit the same target over and over with enough practice, even with other monsters getting in the way.
I used to play Grim Sever before it got nerfed, and it took me about 1 month of playing every day before I could play it properly. I could see the same happening with S6 if you aren't used to it. But once your used to it killing monsters takes less concentration, as it becomes more muscle memory, and you can focus on dodging stuff and resource levels.
Here are more videos of Grim Sever:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lZUWKqceHw <-- Lightening
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1j0BDyydHE <-- Cold
https://www.youtube.com/user/bladezero25/videos <-- lots more Grim Sever game play videos.
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/TastySouP-1157/career
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ModeratorBiggest gripe for me is that the only actual "usable" chakram rune is the Cold one which has a decent pathing. Other runes really suck compared to it.
However, i'm thinking about another combination of skills - though the fact we cannot put a melee weapon in offhand makes hard to choose between the actual skills.
Ideal build that revolves around physical dmg and it's a really melee spec.
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#WZTjfe!Vcij!ZcYbcc
(5th passive from hellfire is obviously awareness, and in general opassive can be juggled based on what you feel better).
I took MfD/Grim reaper, but Vault can be an option if i find i need mobility more than damage. The idea is that if i have enough aoe for packs through FoK/Cloud and generator, Impale will be used only on guardian - Otherwise grim reaper will trump over easily
Gear:
Shadow x6
Chakram Quiver since it's the only viable option and it increases chakram damage
Chakram Sword for better damage (independently from the special)
Hellfire amu for 5th passive
rings: either F/R or new Endlelss Walk depending if i find myself to be more stationary than moving
belt: likely String of Ears, due to being in melee
bracers: the ones that trigger dmg reduction with generators since i use one of them.
Cubed: FoK dagger for more aoe, Elusive ring for dmg reduction - can either be triggered by Vault if use it, or by casting SP. Still armor slot is empty, i'll check after what are the possible candidates since i didn't find anything specific.
I like the looks of this, but don't forget that FoK has no character animation and you can use other skills while using FoK. You could switch it to FoK-Knives Expert and spam FoK while also spamming Bola, might not work out to well with the Dagger's time requirement for the buff, but even still. A constant 250% more damage while spamming both Bola and FoK would be nice.
In regards to chakram, have you tried Razor Disc? It works like Cluster Arrow, it goes directly to where you clicked, damaging enemies along the way and at the location, and then spirals outward hitting others.
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/TastySouP-1157/career
I was thinking of a similar build Coldkil, but I really want to find a place for Vault in there, probably with Action Shot, I just don't know where to put it
I see a lot of people including Shuriken Cloud in their S6 specs, but if they haven't increased the Radius and the Tick Rate (its only once per sec atm) of the Cloud, I think it would be kind of useless unfortunately. The skill just doesn't deal enough damage and you have to be way to close for comfort imo, if you had Chak-SC included, you could probably drop it for Action Shot.
Not trying to sound so negative/pretentious about it's uses here, I just think the skill is designed terribly in a lot of ways and doesn't have much of a use for the DH in it's current form. Just my 2 cents on the skill.
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ModeratorIf i manage to get into PTR i can try different setups - let's see what can be done.
FoK is not a great spammable skill due to his high cost and no actual reliable way to get hatred back - at least with a melee build. Better to use it as CD and let the dagger stack up a little for better burst.
Likely swapping to Grenades as builder for more uptime of Numbing Traps.
I would like to put Vault too in the build and make use of the belt, but Grim Reaper looks mandatory and very likley we will end choosing between it and shuriken cloud.
Until Razor Disk proves to be good enough as a builder.
FoK with pinpoint accuracy is amazing during lightning convention proc and with the FoK dagger in cube.
Was hitting for over 400B with it on big packs of mobs, with a 1900 dagger. I managed to get a 2900 dagger a few min ago (though I can't get on ptr right now due to error 3006). I'm assuming the damage will be even higher once I use that one.
Must say the shadow set is fun and unique, it does take a lot of getting used to but it also has a lot of custom options. Personally I use the lightning rune of bola with the bola quiver for discipline regen on explosion which gives me a bit more vaults, without running with the vault belt in cube.
All in all, go for a lot of area damage, it gets pretty hillarious at some point when you go over 100% AD.
You think it would be viable to stack AD and drop Grim Reaper?
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ModeratorManaged to get into PTR last night, didn't have the chance of doing much since i had not much gear available and ended testing new marauder build.
New Aurora xbow is awesome. Nearly 100% Vengeance uptime with old gear (likely stat priority have shifted and i'm still going with gear from the very first Marauder set) which will reach easily 100% with enough CDR.
Tried a TX rift and i got instagibbed multiple times - but ithis is clearly due to old gear which wasn't focusing on survivability at all and i had like 300k hp. Didn't get to drop the companions belt nor Garwulf so no damage reduction from anything. Still, damage was more than fine as elite packs were falling easily - i finished the rift with not that much issues (or better, didmn't expect more with random thrown gear).
I also didn't have Manticore nor new Sentry quiver (so no 100% dmg increase for Sentries) - efficiency was really low.
I ran with Shooting stars, Enforcer/Zei/Trapped. If we're not cubing RoRG, we have to choose between Garwulf and T&T (at least for a pet focused build).
Just tried some stuff with the unhallowed essence. Pretty much the same stuff as in 2.3 except:
in cube - dawn (reduces cooldown of vengeance), the new helmet (vengeance gets 50% dmg reduction), obsidian ring
on myself - unhallowed essence, wraps of clarity, witching hour, cindercoat, rorg, endless walk set, jangs recurve and DML
Can easily achieve 100% uptime of vengeance without using any cooldown anywhere (without zodiac 60% cooldown reduction is needed and imo it isnt worth it going full cooldown rather than just going for zodiac and rorg). Hatred is just about not running out with seethe (reduced cost on bow, shoulders, gloves and hatred regen on quiver and follower). Using the boar companion. Only the generator slot seems kinda wasted as it only procs the wraps of clarity, but without those it would not work well. Definitely is way stronger that in 2.3
Basically one loses 25% dmg from F&R and 50% from convention, but with those the uptime of vengeance wont reach 100% (with 60% cooldown it would, but i dont think it would be worth losing all the other stats). One gains some fire % from having cindercoat equipped. Also the endless walk ring has extra stat compared to F&R and generally it can get (the setup) significantly more toughness than the F&R. Also not sure if cindercoats +20% fire outweighs 12 discipline from unhallowed cloak. If not then i guess this setup sucks or one would have cindercoat in cube and the helmet equipped.
Perheaps using F&R, dawn, cindercoat and elusive ring in cube without the helmet and cooldown everywhere would turn out better. Ill try some marauder stuff now.
EDIT: tied the FR setup, seems about the same after 1 rift, but the hatred is a problem. The first setup might end up being better, but without the zodiac (instead COE or elusive?) and cooldown everywhere. But then again the hatred would become a problem. But i guess with perfect gear it would work out.
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ModeratorOk, i absolutely need the full shadow set to try stuff out. I have possibly found another way that looks pretty good but also kinda hard to play.
Basically, i want to make use of both the Impale dagger and the Shadow chain that makes Vault free. In conjunction with Cindercoat a fire build looks promising
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#ZfTdej!Vcjf!ZYaccb
Basically Impale -> free vault -> repeat while FoKing and Shuriken deals damage. With RCR from Cindercoat Impale should be a "free cast". Still there will be issues with aiming which are tied to the impale skill tiself.
IF i can get a decent setup (eg 50% RCR at least) i could go full physical as i wanted and include Pain Enhancer in the mix
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#ZfTdej!Vcjf!ccaccb
Don't know about Vault rune - action shot is a guaranteed 4 procs of PE, but Cinders have a way bigger aoe - need to test if it can proc PE and crits are actually hidden (iirc cots follow different mechanics).
EDIT: PE will proc easily AoE due to cloud critting a lot (1 aoe attack every second).
EDIT2: the more i tinker around, the more stuff i find that won't use (or is not recommended to) use F/R. Especially for the builds above, where we won't have an actual generator so i cannot proc both bonus buffs. Need to search what i can use instead.
EDIT3: also the more i look at FoK dagger, the more counterintuitive it looks. Skill has a short cd, still the dagger takes so long to stack. Using Stuff like Zodiac which should be a damage increase directly counters the dagger special. This weapon needs to be reworked - also Chakram sword being a sword it's just better.
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ModeratorOk, dropped the new stuff for Marauder, it's insanely fun
Dat 3 billion crits.
I'm still running Enforcer/Zei/Trapped, will likely drop Zei for a more reliable Stricken and Powerful for speed farming.
Garwulf seems the more balanced choice for cube, giving 12%-ish more dmg reduction and damage. The new helm is also really good as 50% dmg reduction baked on Vengeance is nice and uptime is really high with Dawn/Zodiac. Would like to try RoRG+T&T setup for even more pet damage.
Shadow set: a lot of the issues with this could be solved if Blizzard chnages the mechanics of Impale. Instead of colliding with the first monster on path, Impale just need to hit the monster we are currently pointing with the mouse. This way the skill stays a pure ST and doesn't need damage tuning, but we could actually make use of the Impale dagger and in general have more control on our damage.
I got a chance to get on the PTR and play with shadows 6 and personally, I completely disagree, I would be extremely disappointed if they change impales mechanics. For starters having it hit where you mouse is, would make the pierce and ricochet rune very clunky to use, they already go to your mouse cursor. Karlei's Point is actually useless, the damage you deal is so high that you pretty much 1 shot all monsters that you hit first with. I got up to grift 62 with 0 ancient items and a bad 1,8000 dmg dagger and I could never get the hatred return to happen because everything was dying in one shot. The dagger needs to be changed to something else in my opinion, maybe even just "RCR for Impale" would be sufficient, not as cool, but would definitely work.
I couldn't push much higher because of toughness issues, but I want to work on correcting those by swapping gear and try pushing higher again. Also, during these tests, I came across a Bug with Shadows 6 piece set that greatly reduces the Grift potential. Impale - Grievous Wounds does not work with the 6piece bonus of shadows set, it gets cancelled out and you do not gain an extra 330% CHD. Here's a video/bug report I made about it:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/19892439217#1
my spec while pushing was:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#WZTShj!acYi!YcbcZb
-Shadows 6 piece
-Kerlei's Point
-Holy Point Shot
-Witching Hour
-Reapers Wraps
-F&R
-Ess of Johan
Cube:
-Demon's Demise
-Garwulf
-Convention of Elements
Basically, the Witching Hour and F&R are used to get the highest DPS possible, the Ess of Johan also helps with crowd control and DPS by allowing very potent procs of Area Damage. I stacked +100% area damage from my Weapon, Shoulders, Gloves and Paragon. Convention of Elements is also added for damage, but more impotantly, it makes Impales crit so absurdly high that when coupled with MFD-Grim Reaper, I was 1 shotting entire packs in Grift 62. CoE also works really well with DD+Sticky Trap, the constant AoE helps but when Fire rolls around, it would start to melt mobs. I took the rift gaurdian down in seconds with all this combined. Also Bola-Bitter Pill is lightening and Lightening comes just before phyiscal damage in CoE's rotation so it works out well. RW's were for more hatred but didn't seem to useful in the long run.
For defense I was using the 3 wolves from Garwulf much like M2 uses the Wolf, Spider and Boar as a pet wall. This helped hold monsters in place a bit, but more importantly it allowed me to forgo using Vault/smokescreen by using the pet wall and constant movement to stay alive. The enchantress also help with her own Ess of Johan and all of her CC skills.
In the end I found my toughness was far to low and that the impale dagger's returns were next to useless as I was 1 shotting everything. I want to try this all again, but with:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#WZTShj!acXi!ZabcZb
-Shadows 6 piece
-Not sure which weapon maybe Doombringer
-Lidless Wall
-Witching Hour/Zoey's Secret if Lidless and WoC aren't enough
-Wraps of Clarity
-F&R
-Ess of Johan
Cube:
-Demon's Demise
-Garwulf
-Convention of Elements
Since kerlei's is pointless I want to switch my weapon, not sure what yet. Lidless/WoC will add a lot more toughness and Zoey's secret might be a better choice than lidless wall, if so i can use HPS again. Also, since I found out impale-greivous wounds doesn't work, I'll switch to Implae - Impact for now. I also noticed that without Vault/Smokescreen, I had a ton of discipline available, so I switched to Bola - Thunder ball for extra hatred returns.
Like I said, the only issues I'm having when it comes to progress in Grifts is toughness. Impale is not easy to use, but it can be done with enough practice. I think you gave up to early. Add me in PTR, maybe we can mess around and theorycraft for a bit
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/TastySouP-1157/career
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ModeratorThanks for the pointers, i just started to use it.
For your toughness issues: Hunters wrap and Chain of Shadows + Ring of Elusiveness are a godsend. Vault free + 60% dmg reduction is really insane.
I tested a pure vault build but it turned out pretty bad. Now i'm going to try this one
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#eZTdfj!Vcji!Zcbacb
6 shadows
seething hatred quiver
chakram sword
Need to tool a little with the cube and offset pieces.
Running PE/Trapped/Iceblink for stacking crit and reliable slow - don't have a Stricken at hand to test.
Don't know how it will turn out - sure better than my previous try.
As for Impale: in fact the only two runes which are not cluncky to use are the two you losted. The other ones need better tuning, and as you said the hatred return from the dagger kinda sucks.
EDIT: i'll be kinda mad if the stronger shadow builds end to be another standard generator + Impale + pet setup like the other two sets we have (well, natalya is a bit different). They have designed different new legendaries tailored for the melee build, and they're at best mediocre options.
Not liking how it's turning out.
EDIT2: i've added you. If you're on you'll receive my request