I'm starting this thread to gather the information I have to share in one place, and to give all Demon Hunters a place to visit and read up on any important information. Unlike some of my older posts, I will include what basically are four full guides on different builds all centered around the Unhallowed Essence set. In the past two weeks I have been playing with the set quite extensively and I feel that I know pretty well what we can expect to be (close to) optimal setups by now. The written parts are all basically done already, the videos are in the making (rendering takes ages on my PC and interferes with streaming), so I will add them over the course of the next couple of days. The post is going to have five parts:
1) Tier 65+ Speed GRs 2) 2.5 Min T9 Optimized Speedfarm 3) Solo GR Pushing 4) Krider Ball Lightning 5) Additional UE Information
Each part will go into the details of Basics, Items, Gems, Cube, Gameplay, TL;DR and FAQ. There will be some overlap here and there because each part is supposed to work as a standalone guide, I tried to minimize this as much as possible. So far, the first part is done completely, the others will be added soon. I wanted to get the Speed GR part out as soon as possible because we can already see the meta settling and I think that DHs are currently underrated in that regard. Enjoy the post!
Let's start this off with what probably is the most important part of every season, farming Speed GRs. Currently, it seems like Tiers 63-68 will be within the comfort zone of most fully decked out players to strike a good balance between XP, loot and key efficiency for this season. I know that some NS groups are going up until the mid 70s but these are thoroughly optimized setups of coordinated and good high paragon players and DHs will probably not have a spot in there, so we'll stick to only the regular stuff here.
Basics:
In Speed GRs currently, the most common setups involve one Support/Leech Barb (for defense), one Support/Leech Monk (for lifereg and pulling) and two DPS. Demon Hunters have a hard time competing with Barbs and WDs for the dps spots, seem about equal to Uliana Monks and ahead of Vyr's Wizards and Crusaders of any type. As such, we are kind of in between – however DH usually is one of the mechanically most challenging classes which might deter many from trying it, and many are still stuck in a mindset of "DH = oneshot". In any case DHs actually have a chance to compete with the stronger classes because of the ongoing issues with Area Damage, it works for any DH multiplier save for Focus and Hunter's Wrath. The belt is almost irrelevant, so the loss from Focus cuts off 33% of the area damage value, however it still remains the most desirable dps stats for groups while it doesn't work with crucial multipliers for Barbs (HotA bracers) or just straight out kill the servers due to lag (WDs). Funny how a gamebreaking bug actually improves class balance. In addition, it seems like the most efficient parties will run with only one "real" dps and one SWK Palm Monk, so the former will be occupied by you as a DH. As such, you will be the only damage dealer to pop the Palms and kill the RG, thus we specialize on doing exactly this.
The build itself is pretty straightforward with some minor modifications to standard setups. Preparation – Invigoration, Vault, Wolf Companion and Multishot Arsenal are a must-have. To add to this, I use Marked for Death – Mortal Enemy and Entangling Shot – Justice is served. The reason for these two spells is that Mortal Enemy regenerates hatred according to the proc coefficient of spells used, which is 1.00 for ES and 0.33 for EF. Like this, you generate 6 + 4 = 10 per cast with ES, and 7 + 1.33 = 8.33 for EF, given you hit the marked target. Since the SWK monk just blows up stuff and MfD – Contagion will almost never spread before that, there's not really much of a reason to go for another rune, and we can squeeze out some more RG dps with this combo. As for the passives, Awareness / Cull the Weak / Ballistics are pretty much mandatory, I recommend Ambush as the fourth and Single Out as the fifth. Night Stalker or Steady Aim are also appropriate.
Items:
Full UE set, F/R, Yang's, DML, Wraps of Clarity, Hunter's Wrath, Hellfire. Optimize toughness and area damage, the rest is basically irrelevant or just not worth taking. I recommend to go for more vitality early on and keep reducing your toughness more and more in favor of dps once you get more familiar with the playstyle and your group, and keep some of the vitality items to swap them in if you have bad supporters. For optimized endgame clears, you will probably only use one vitality item out of those that don't have a spot for it anyway (Weapon / Quiver / Gloves / Helm), and I recommend to go for it on the helm as the 15% Multishot damage is not going to beat the 20-24% Area Damage you can get on other slots. Other than that, go full defense on Shoulders / Chest / Pants / Belt, generator damage rolls and the hatred regeneration are basically irrelevant. Boots and Quiver should still have 15% Multishot. Rings and Hellfire should have ancient dexterity and double crit, or even better ancient average damage (rings) / elemental damage (amulet) instead of dexterity.
Cube:
For optimal dps, we don't really have many choices: Calamity in the weapon slot, Cindercoat in the armor slot, Convention in the jewelry slot. None of these options are really debatable. Calamity is much better than Odyssey's even though we already use Entangling Shot, however both the uptime and damage amplification are deplorable, and Calamity stacks with the Marked for Death skill (it applies a completely separate unruned version of the skill, however you can have only one MfD and one Cala active on a target at a given time). Cindercoat is an overall pretty good damage boost, the only other option would be Hexing Pants, however its value is greatly diminished in group setups due to all the additive damage buffs (and it's much easier to play, and doesn't work for discipline / Vault). Convention is the biggest factor here by far, probably the Multishot DH is the build that benefits most from this, I assume that the effective damage increase is somewhere around 70-100% for this ring (200% with 25% uptime = 50% average, but we time our nuke with it).
Gems:
Bane of the Trapped, Zei's Stone of Vengeance, Bane of the Stricken. For nonseason or setups that kill many elites and have 2 damage dealers for the RG, you can replace the latter with Bane of the Powerful. Other than that, there's not really much to say about the gems, these are the strongest by far, try to maximize Zei's when possible and have others apply the slow for you.
Gameplay:
Surviving in Speed GRs is the probably the main issue, and also why I mentioned stacking vitality until you're familiar with everything. Doing well on a DH is going to be very difficult this season because we lost a lot of our utility and dps advantages to other classes. Stay close to your supports to benefit from Ignore Pain and the Monk's passive heal. Lower the monsters' hp, wait for the Palms, then blow them up and move on. Don't stay back and try to finish off monsters for more than 3-5 seconds, rather just move on after the EPs have gone off. Try to synchronize your nuke with your Convention cycle, and make sure you have enough hatred (usually around 50-70% is enough) and the Focus buff up to nuke for 4 seconds without stopping. Sometimes it can be beneficial to not dodge a dangerous attack on purpose to not lose precious time on the nuke, without Convention we usually have a hard time killing things, and you can only pop the Palms on weak targets (e.g. Stingers, little spiders, maybe Winged Assassins and Lacunis if density is good). Make sure you never blow up the EPs too early (before everything has been stacked), as it's usually the Monk who clears the rift and if you lose too many targets you might not be able to clear the rest yourself. Don't hesitate to run in front of the group here and there to pull more monsters when your CoE is down or when you have Conduit, and in very dangerous situations try to stay alive using repeated Vaults. When you have long runs where you lose a lot of discipline, try to weave in a couple of generator casts here and there to stay high in resources so that you can go for a quick nuke in between when CoE come up. On the RG, Mortal Enemy is almost enough to keep you at full hatred all the time once DML kicks in, just remember to use your generator once in a while.
Variations:
If you don't have a SWK Monk but rather a regular second dps, use Evasive Fire – Focus and Marked for Death – Contagion. The rest stays basically the same, with the exception that you don't have to time your nukes as precisely because there are not EPs anymore, so just nuke whenever you can (especially with Convention). Witching Hour can be a replacement for Hunter's Wrath, it usually nets slightly higher damage overall at the cost of two defensive primaries. If you feel like you have too much toughness and can't replace vitality with AD on other items yet, use WH.
TL;DR:
Equip UE + Yang's + DML + F/R + Hunter's Wrath + Wraps of Clarity, stack AD + Vitality, use Trapped / Zei's / Stricken, cube Calamity / Cinder / Convention, aim for 6-8 min runs. Stay close to your supports to survive, nuke with Convention up, pull more and aggressively when it is not. If you play with a SWK Monk, make sure to not pop the EPs too early and time your nukes accordingly.
FAQ: Q: Where can I learn more about proc coefficents?
A: Here: http://www.d3maxstats.com/skills/
Some of it might be outdated, specifically I've heard about nerfs to Immolation Arrow. The rest remained unchanged for several patches now as far as I'm aware. You can test exact proc coefficients with the use of the 1h weapon Hack or by attacking reflect damage targets (e.g. Siegebreaker), they scale linearly with it.
Q: Area damage is THAT strong?
A: Yes, it is. Here's a table (including the bugged Focus multiplier): http://puu.sh/k7B1b/850fbd0d79.png
Q: I'm not quite there yet for 65+, what about lower tiers?
A: DH works fine for lower tiers, survival obviously is much easier and the impact of Ambush / DML are much bigger.
Q: I have trouble aiming with Entangling Shot, what's the difference to Evasive Fire?
A: It's difficult to tell exactly, but the difference is not very big and you can safely change to EF without losing a lot.
Q: I'm struggling with survival, how do I do it?
A: The three main reasons why DHs are dying in Speedruns are probably the following:
1) Bad Support players.
2) Too little vitality.
3) You're not dodging dangerous attacks well enough.
Try to figure out what's the problem and work on it, as I mentioned playing the DH is not going to be a cakewalk.
Q: Can I replace Vault with Smoke Screen? What about going for SS instead of MfD?
A: Not recommended. Speed GR groups skip a lot in patch 2.3 and you will get stuck everywhere without Vault. Dropping MfD and keeping both SS and Vault is a big damage loss but might be a good idea if you struggle a lot. I'd recommend the cooldown rune, it doesn't cost any discipline and one SS cast every 5 seconds should be good enough.
Q: How does UE compare to Nats?
A: From my testing I can say that Nats seems slightly weaker in Speed GRs right now. I will revisit testing at a later date when I have more optimized Natalya pieces and some additional ZEcret stuff, maybe it will work out then. So far, I'd recommend to go with UE for Speedruns. You can still use both sets for Torments and solo pushes just fine.
Q: What about high GRs (75+)?
A: Doubtful that DHs will be able to keep up with the other classes, the only reason why we can compete is the timely nukes with Convention and the massive downtime there is between pulls in Speed GRs. In high GRs, fights are much longer, effectively taking away from the advantages of the DH. So far, it seems that Ball Lightning will be stronger than Multishot anyway, but my money is on Natalya for the highest clears (of those that involve DHs).
Q: I don't have an ancient Yang's yet but a really crazy crossbow, what should I use?
A: Nonancient Yang should beat any other perfectly rolled ancient weapon.
Q: SoJ and Manald Heal roll +discipline, aren't those better than F+R?
A: No. 81 + 20 = 101 discipline. 101 / 81 = 24.6% increase.
Hey everyone,
I'm starting this thread to gather the information I have to share in one place, and to give all Demon Hunters a place to visit and read up on any important information. Unlike some of my older posts, I will include what basically are four full guides on different builds all centered around the Unhallowed Essence set. In the past two weeks I have been playing with the set quite extensively and I feel that I know pretty well what we can expect to be (close to) optimal setups by now. The written parts are all basically done already, the videos are in the making (rendering takes ages on my PC and interferes with streaming), so I will add them over the course of the next couple of days. The post is going to have five parts:
1) Tier 65+ Speed GRs
2) 2.5 Min T9 Optimized Speedfarm
3) Solo GR Pushing
4) Krider Ball Lightning
5) Additional UE Information
Each part will go into the details of Basics, Items, Gems, Cube, Gameplay, TL;DR and FAQ. There will be some overlap here and there because each part is supposed to work as a standalone guide, I tried to minimize this as much as possible. So far, the first part is done completely, the others will be added soon. I wanted to get the Speed GR part out as soon as possible because we can already see the meta settling and I think that DHs are currently underrated in that regard. Enjoy the post!
Part 1: Tier 65+ Speed GRs
DHs in Tier 65+ Speedruns
Speed GR 65+ UE Multishot
Let's start this off with what probably is the most important part of every season, farming Speed GRs. Currently, it seems like Tiers 63-68 will be within the comfort zone of most fully decked out players to strike a good balance between XP, loot and key efficiency for this season. I know that some NS groups are going up until the mid 70s but these are thoroughly optimized setups of coordinated and good high paragon players and DHs will probably not have a spot in there, so we'll stick to only the regular stuff here.
Basics:
In Speed GRs currently, the most common setups involve one Support/Leech Barb (for defense), one Support/Leech Monk (for lifereg and pulling) and two DPS. Demon Hunters have a hard time competing with Barbs and WDs for the dps spots, seem about equal to Uliana Monks and ahead of Vyr's Wizards and Crusaders of any type. As such, we are kind of in between – however DH usually is one of the mechanically most challenging classes which might deter many from trying it, and many are still stuck in a mindset of "DH = oneshot". In any case DHs actually have a chance to compete with the stronger classes because of the ongoing issues with Area Damage, it works for any DH multiplier save for Focus and Hunter's Wrath. The belt is almost irrelevant, so the loss from Focus cuts off 33% of the area damage value, however it still remains the most desirable dps stats for groups while it doesn't work with crucial multipliers for Barbs (HotA bracers) or just straight out kill the servers due to lag (WDs). Funny how a gamebreaking bug actually improves class balance. In addition, it seems like the most efficient parties will run with only one "real" dps and one SWK Palm Monk, so the former will be occupied by you as a DH. As such, you will be the only damage dealer to pop the Palms and kill the RG, thus we specialize on doing exactly this.
The build itself is pretty straightforward with some minor modifications to standard setups. Preparation – Invigoration, Vault, Wolf Companion and Multishot Arsenal are a must-have. To add to this, I use Marked for Death – Mortal Enemy and Entangling Shot – Justice is served. The reason for these two spells is that Mortal Enemy regenerates hatred according to the proc coefficient of spells used, which is 1.00 for ES and 0.33 for EF. Like this, you generate 6 + 4 = 10 per cast with ES, and 7 + 1.33 = 8.33 for EF, given you hit the marked target. Since the SWK monk just blows up stuff and MfD – Contagion will almost never spread before that, there's not really much of a reason to go for another rune, and we can squeeze out some more RG dps with this combo. As for the passives, Awareness / Cull the Weak / Ballistics are pretty much mandatory, I recommend Ambush as the fourth and Single Out as the fifth. Night Stalker or Steady Aim are also appropriate.
Items:
Full UE set, F/R, Yang's, DML, Wraps of Clarity, Hunter's Wrath, Hellfire. Optimize toughness and area damage, the rest is basically irrelevant or just not worth taking. I recommend to go for more vitality early on and keep reducing your toughness more and more in favor of dps once you get more familiar with the playstyle and your group, and keep some of the vitality items to swap them in if you have bad supporters. For optimized endgame clears, you will probably only use one vitality item out of those that don't have a spot for it anyway (Weapon / Quiver / Gloves / Helm), and I recommend to go for it on the helm as the 15% Multishot damage is not going to beat the 20-24% Area Damage you can get on other slots. Other than that, go full defense on Shoulders / Chest / Pants / Belt, generator damage rolls and the hatred regeneration are basically irrelevant. Boots and Quiver should still have 15% Multishot. Rings and Hellfire should have ancient dexterity and double crit, or even better ancient average damage (rings) / elemental damage (amulet) instead of dexterity.
Cube:
For optimal dps, we don't really have many choices: Calamity in the weapon slot, Cindercoat in the armor slot, Convention in the jewelry slot. None of these options are really debatable. Calamity is much better than Odyssey's even though we already use Entangling Shot, however both the uptime and damage amplification are deplorable, and Calamity stacks with the Marked for Death skill (it applies a completely separate unruned version of the skill, however you can have only one MfD and one Cala active on a target at a given time). Cindercoat is an overall pretty good damage boost, the only other option would be Hexing Pants, however its value is greatly diminished in group setups due to all the additive damage buffs (and it's much easier to play, and doesn't work for discipline / Vault). Convention is the biggest factor here by far, probably the Multishot DH is the build that benefits most from this, I assume that the effective damage increase is somewhere around 70-100% for this ring (200% with 25% uptime = 50% average, but we time our nuke with it).
Gems:
Bane of the Trapped, Zei's Stone of Vengeance, Bane of the Stricken. For nonseason or setups that kill many elites and have 2 damage dealers for the RG, you can replace the latter with Bane of the Powerful. Other than that, there's not really much to say about the gems, these are the strongest by far, try to maximize Zei's when possible and have others apply the slow for you.
Gameplay:
Surviving in Speed GRs is the probably the main issue, and also why I mentioned stacking vitality until you're familiar with everything. Doing well on a DH is going to be very difficult this season because we lost a lot of our utility and dps advantages to other classes. Stay close to your supports to benefit from Ignore Pain and the Monk's passive heal. Lower the monsters' hp, wait for the Palms, then blow them up and move on. Don't stay back and try to finish off monsters for more than 3-5 seconds, rather just move on after the EPs have gone off. Try to synchronize your nuke with your Convention cycle, and make sure you have enough hatred (usually around 50-70% is enough) and the Focus buff up to nuke for 4 seconds without stopping. Sometimes it can be beneficial to not dodge a dangerous attack on purpose to not lose precious time on the nuke, without Convention we usually have a hard time killing things, and you can only pop the Palms on weak targets (e.g. Stingers, little spiders, maybe Winged Assassins and Lacunis if density is good). Make sure you never blow up the EPs too early (before everything has been stacked), as it's usually the Monk who clears the rift and if you lose too many targets you might not be able to clear the rest yourself. Don't hesitate to run in front of the group here and there to pull more monsters when your CoE is down or when you have Conduit, and in very dangerous situations try to stay alive using repeated Vaults. When you have long runs where you lose a lot of discipline, try to weave in a couple of generator casts here and there to stay high in resources so that you can go for a quick nuke in between when CoE come up. On the RG, Mortal Enemy is almost enough to keep you at full hatred all the time once DML kicks in, just remember to use your generator once in a while.
Variations:
If you don't have a SWK Monk but rather a regular second dps, use Evasive Fire – Focus and Marked for Death – Contagion. The rest stays basically the same, with the exception that you don't have to time your nukes as precisely because there are not EPs anymore, so just nuke whenever you can (especially with Convention). Witching Hour can be a replacement for Hunter's Wrath, it usually nets slightly higher damage overall at the cost of two defensive primaries. If you feel like you have too much toughness and can't replace vitality with AD on other items yet, use WH.
TL;DR:
Equip UE + Yang's + DML + F/R + Hunter's Wrath + Wraps of Clarity, stack AD + Vitality, use Trapped / Zei's / Stricken, cube Calamity / Cinder / Convention, aim for 6-8 min runs. Stay close to your supports to survive, nuke with Convention up, pull more and aggressively when it is not. If you play with a SWK Monk, make sure to not pop the EPs too early and time your nukes accordingly.
FAQ:
Q: Where can I learn more about proc coefficents?
A: Here: http://www.d3maxstats.com/skills/
Some of it might be outdated, specifically I've heard about nerfs to Immolation Arrow. The rest remained unchanged for several patches now as far as I'm aware. You can test exact proc coefficients with the use of the 1h weapon Hack or by attacking reflect damage targets (e.g. Siegebreaker), they scale linearly with it.
Q: Area damage is THAT strong?
A: Yes, it is. Here's a table (including the bugged Focus multiplier): http://puu.sh/k7B1b/850fbd0d79.png
Q: I'm not quite there yet for 65+, what about lower tiers?
A: DH works fine for lower tiers, survival obviously is much easier and the impact of Ambush / DML are much bigger.
Q: I have trouble aiming with Entangling Shot, what's the difference to Evasive Fire?
A: It's difficult to tell exactly, but the difference is not very big and you can safely change to EF without losing a lot.
Q: I'm struggling with survival, how do I do it?
A: The three main reasons why DHs are dying in Speedruns are probably the following:
1) Bad Support players.
2) Too little vitality.
3) You're not dodging dangerous attacks well enough.
Try to figure out what's the problem and work on it, as I mentioned playing the DH is not going to be a cakewalk.
Q: Can I replace Vault with Smoke Screen? What about going for SS instead of MfD?
A: Not recommended. Speed GR groups skip a lot in patch 2.3 and you will get stuck everywhere without Vault. Dropping MfD and keeping both SS and Vault is a big damage loss but might be a good idea if you struggle a lot. I'd recommend the cooldown rune, it doesn't cost any discipline and one SS cast every 5 seconds should be good enough.
Q: How does UE compare to Nats?
A: From my testing I can say that Nats seems slightly weaker in Speed GRs right now. I will revisit testing at a later date when I have more optimized Natalya pieces and some additional ZEcret stuff, maybe it will work out then. So far, I'd recommend to go with UE for Speedruns. You can still use both sets for Torments and solo pushes just fine.
Q: What about high GRs (75+)?
A: Doubtful that DHs will be able to keep up with the other classes, the only reason why we can compete is the timely nukes with Convention and the massive downtime there is between pulls in Speed GRs. In high GRs, fights are much longer, effectively taking away from the advantages of the DH. So far, it seems that Ball Lightning will be stronger than Multishot anyway, but my money is on Natalya for the highest clears (of those that involve DHs).
Q: I don't have an ancient Yang's yet but a really crazy crossbow, what should I use?
A: Nonancient Yang should beat any other perfectly rolled ancient weapon.
Q: SoJ and Manald Heal roll +discipline, aren't those better than F+R?
A: No. 81 + 20 = 101 discipline. 101 / 81 = 24.6% increase.
Cheers
Part 2: 2.5 Min Optimized T9 Speedfarm
Soon(TM)
Part 3: Solo GR Pushing
Soon(TM)
Part 4: Krider Ball Lightning
Soon(TM)
Part 5: Additional UE Information
Soon(TM)
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Profile | Twitch | Youtube | Twitter | Recruitment: Zero Empathy are looking for the best players in Europe
As always good post wudijo, awaiting you're solo GR pushing and Ball lightning reviews :).
thanks!