Roland set is given two options to play with, Sweep attack and shield bash. So far I think the biggest problem with Shield bash is survival. Could this problem be solved with Punish (15% shield chance) + Hold your ground (15% shield chance) + Akarats awakening (16~26% shield chance) + Blood brother (is this shield chance? if it is another 15~20% shield chance)? Maximum shield chance you can get is 75% (once again assuming Blood brother option is talking about shield chance) and with Akarats awakening cooldown reduction option I think it would be possible to shoot for infinite Prophet?
What do you guys think? ( I was never able to try it because I was never able to get an akarats awakening. I seems to have the lowest drop rate)
Also how does the block amount work exactly? is it total damage taken - blocked amount, or is it total damage taken - ( some coefficient * blocked amount ) ?
sweep attack can offer a lot of crowd control, but so far I find the best survivability is from shield bash, My best so far is gr51 solo. I tried akarats awakening out pre 2.2 and found that the block chance percent combined with only a chance for it to reduce the cooldown on block meant skills weren't coolinig down anywhere near enough for permanent prophet. If anyone has had a different experience I'd be interested to find out.
The survivability key for rolands is to keep bashing away and reduce the cool downs of shield glare to replenish wrath (so you can keep bashing) and using iron skin- steel skin. With the enhanced 7 seconds and an easily obtainable amount of cooldown this can be kept up as long as you're in a fight. The massive damage bonus from the set and bracers mean you can easily swap an offensive gem for some of the newer defensive ones. Taeguk works wonders with a little practice keeping it up between mob packs.
Think more about positioning and blinding mobs than pure toughness and taking the damage. Final witness is a great boost to the crowd control on shield glare, but I favour piro Marella to keep bashing away.
Thanks for the feedback. I was hoping akarats awakening would reduce enough cooldown but i guess its not enough for infinite prophet. Then what about the damage reduction? I was always wondering how damage reduction on shields work? Is 75% block chance meaningful at all?
For shield bash setting did you use focus and restraint or unity and elements?
One thing i really like about sweeping stirke is that with sweeping strike + apd combination you can get really beefy. I see people taking damage and surviving with sweeping strike + apd in grifts over 55. Would something like this be possible for shield bash? The problem i have with shield glare is direction. Some times monsters come from both ways and i have hard time figuring out a way to blind all of them. So is there an alternative crowd controlling method?
Thanks for the feedback. I was hoping akarats awakening would reduce enough cooldown but i guess its not enough for infinite prophet. Then what about the damage reduction? I was always wondering how damage reduction on shields work? Is 75% block chance meaningful at all?
For shield bash setting did you use focus and restraint or unity and elements?
No, because akarats is only a chance to reduce cooldown. Plus then you lose out on Piro's wrath cost reduction which is really needed.
Block chance is meaningful for damage reduction only if you have Blood Brother. Otherwise you are only blocking about 20K or so damage. However, it does add to your Shield Bash damage. I wouldn't sacrifice a passive for it though. If you have a good shield with 30% a perfect BB, plus punish, that's 65% right there.
I prefer F+R because the extra damage is there all the time and I don't have issues with toughness right now. Obviously if you have a BB then you probably want F+R so you can take Punish.
The survivability is supposed to come through being able to constantly spam Iron Skin, holding prophet for oh shit moments and just nuking your way through with huge damage - or did I miss something cause its works fine for me.
Do you think Coven's Criterion would help? 45-60% damage reduction on block, combined with the high block chance of the build could mean some pretty serious damage reduction, especially when combined with the high damage and uptime of Iron Skin.
Do you think Coven's Criterion would help? 45-60% damage reduction on block, combined with the high block chance of the build could mean some pretty serious damage reduction, especially when combined with the high damage and uptime of Iron Skin.
You'll also have some serious wrath starvation issues. That will force you to run a cindercoat and RoRG giving up the damage boost from F+R. Piro is pretty much mandatory. The only shield that you could possibly consider besides Piro is Final Witness, but you will struggle to keep wrath up against lower numbers of targets and against tougher enemies where you need to keep bashing as much as possible.
Blood Brother provides a 30% damage reduction when you block as well as providing more block chance and giving a damage boost when you block too, making it significantly better than coven's
Do you think Coven's Criterion would help? 45-60% damage reduction on block, combined with the high block chance of the build could mean some pretty serious damage reduction, especially when combined with the high damage and uptime of Iron Skin.
You'll also have some serious wrath starvation issues. That will force you to run a cindercoat and RoRG giving up the damage boost from F+R. Piro is pretty much mandatory. The only shield that you could possibly consider besides Piro is Final Witness, but you will struggle to keep wrath up against lower numbers of targets and against tougher enemies where you need to keep bashing as much as possible.
Blood Brother provides a 30% damage reduction when you block as well as providing more block chance and giving a damage boost when you block too, making it significantly better than coven's
Theoretically the two would stack for even more DR, whether it's additive or multiplicative would mean a lot. Lose all the damage though. Might not result in total wrath starvation, but that's dependent on giving up more damage for RCR in a couple slots.
Might be worth considering in an attempt at Roland's Support though.
You mentioned some DR with F+R but isn't unicity giving more DR ? I mean unicity isn't mandatory for GR 45+ (In hardcore at least). Can you play 50+ with F+R without dying?
My 47 gr worked with iron skin, immovable object unicity and i didn't lack of strenght/wrath/toughness (didn't proc 1 passive)
As mentionned before, don't try another items, the main thing to improve on is your position and spam shield bash and glare, you have enough toughness, especially in softcore, and if you want to play F+R, i suggess you to play taeguk + sweep attack stun + glare
Well I don't play Hardcore so I couldn't say for sure, but I probably wouldn't risk it on 50+. Unity does give great damage reduction, but you lose a good chunk of damage by not having F+R. I don't use Unity and I can run 46's without dying. I have 38 mil toughness without any of my defensive skills(Iron skin, Law, and Prophet) so no real need for unity. Why would you suggest F+R for only Sweep? It's amazing for Bash, I'm critting for up to 1.4 bil without AC or pylons.
It works with shield block. Which is basically the entire point of its design (offense for defense)
Very very interesting... Has anyone tested it's interaction with Salvation. Could be interesting if the 20/30% heal procced from Blood Brother's block as well.
It works with shield block. Which is basically the entire point of its design (offense for defense)
Very very interesting... Has anyone tested it's interaction with Salvation. Could be interesting if the 20/30% heal procced from Blood Brother's block as well.
Why wouldn't it? It adds to your block chance. Anything that procs off of block chance will benefit from Blood Brother. But what build would you use it with? Every build I can think of requires a specific shield or weapon or both.
It works with shield block. Which is basically the entire point of its design (offense for defense)
Very very interesting... Has anyone tested it's interaction with Salvation. Could be interesting if the 20/30% heal procced from Blood Brother's block as well.
Why wouldn't it? It adds to your block chance. Anything that procs off of block chance will benefit from Blood Brother. But what build would you use it with? Every build I can think of requires a specific shield or weapon or both.
An alternative support build? Of course at that point I'd probably end up using a Criterion if the goal is pure personal survival (and lots of provoke). For non-50+ builds there's the "Thorns" Punish build in T6. I've seen it work to mid 30's personally, but it's definitely not really a progression build.
The last option is a Blessed Hammers build, but honestly I think Blessed of Haul w/ Justice would outperform melee hammers.
Well if you are going for thorns, Vo'Toyias seems to be a better choice. Until they fix blessed hammer, it will never be more than supplementary damage.(Currently each hammer can only hit each enemy once)
Do you think Coven's Criterion would help? 45-60% damage reduction on block, combined with the high block chance of the build could mean some pretty serious damage reduction, especially when combined with the high damage and uptime of Iron Skin.
Wow i havent thought of coven criterion that sounds like a great idea. Covens criterion plus 50-60% cdr and use shield glare, provoke and law of valor for wrath regen. I have seen a build on youtube that doesnt use piro. He was trying to prove that piro is not a must for infinite wrath. Wouldnt this build provide more survivalability?
You don't want to use Angel Hair Braid with BB. I'm not sure if it is a bug or intended, but right now Roar and Retaliate proc BB's 30% damage bonus after blocking meaning you won't get it for your shield bash or whatever spending you are using.
This would be for a "Play Your Way" Punish build, amping up Primary damage as much as possible. I would of course HAVE a spender, but it would be something cheap I could spam to get more procs out of Zodiac ring to get the CD on Provoke and Iron Skin as low as possible.
Might even go Sweep Attack and 2pc Roland's to get that 1sec off on attack. Combine that with Holy Shock for the healing.
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Roland set is given two options to play with, Sweep attack and shield bash. So far I think the biggest problem with Shield bash is survival. Could this problem be solved with Punish (15% shield chance) + Hold your ground (15% shield chance) + Akarats awakening (16~26% shield chance) + Blood brother (is this shield chance? if it is another 15~20% shield chance)? Maximum shield chance you can get is 75% (once again assuming Blood brother option is talking about shield chance) and with Akarats awakening cooldown reduction option I think it would be possible to shoot for infinite Prophet?
What do you guys think? ( I was never able to try it because I was never able to get an akarats awakening. I seems to have the lowest drop rate)
Also how does the block amount work exactly? is it total damage taken - blocked amount, or is it total damage taken - ( some coefficient * blocked amount ) ?
Hey kilee,
sweep attack can offer a lot of crowd control, but so far I find the best survivability is from shield bash, My best so far is gr51 solo. I tried akarats awakening out pre 2.2 and found that the block chance percent combined with only a chance for it to reduce the cooldown on block meant skills weren't coolinig down anywhere near enough for permanent prophet. If anyone has had a different experience I'd be interested to find out.
The survivability key for rolands is to keep bashing away and reduce the cool downs of shield glare to replenish wrath (so you can keep bashing) and using iron skin- steel skin. With the enhanced 7 seconds and an easily obtainable amount of cooldown this can be kept up as long as you're in a fight. The massive damage bonus from the set and bracers mean you can easily swap an offensive gem for some of the newer defensive ones. Taeguk works wonders with a little practice keeping it up between mob packs.
Think more about positioning and blinding mobs than pure toughness and taking the damage. Final witness is a great boost to the crowd control on shield glare, but I favour piro Marella to keep bashing away.
Thanks for the feedback. I was hoping akarats awakening would reduce enough cooldown but i guess its not enough for infinite prophet. Then what about the damage reduction? I was always wondering how damage reduction on shields work? Is 75% block chance meaningful at all?
For shield bash setting did you use focus and restraint or unity and elements?
One thing i really like about sweeping stirke is that with sweeping strike + apd combination you can get really beefy. I see people taking damage and surviving with sweeping strike + apd in grifts over 55. Would something like this be possible for shield bash? The problem i have with shield glare is direction. Some times monsters come from both ways and i have hard time figuring out a way to blind all of them. So is there an alternative crowd controlling method?
No, because akarats is only a chance to reduce cooldown. Plus then you lose out on Piro's wrath cost reduction which is really needed.
Block chance is meaningful for damage reduction only if you have Blood Brother. Otherwise you are only blocking about 20K or so damage. However, it does add to your Shield Bash damage. I wouldn't sacrifice a passive for it though. If you have a good shield with 30% a perfect BB, plus punish, that's 65% right there.
I prefer F+R because the extra damage is there all the time and I don't have issues with toughness right now. Obviously if you have a BB then you probably want F+R so you can take Punish.
The survivability is supposed to come through being able to constantly spam Iron Skin, holding prophet for oh shit moments and just nuking your way through with huge damage - or did I miss something cause its works fine for me.
Do you think Coven's Criterion would help? 45-60% damage reduction on block, combined with the high block chance of the build could mean some pretty serious damage reduction, especially when combined with the high damage and uptime of Iron Skin.
You'll also have some serious wrath starvation issues. That will force you to run a cindercoat and RoRG giving up the damage boost from F+R. Piro is pretty much mandatory. The only shield that you could possibly consider besides Piro is Final Witness, but you will struggle to keep wrath up against lower numbers of targets and against tougher enemies where you need to keep bashing as much as possible.
Blood Brother provides a 30% damage reduction when you block as well as providing more block chance and giving a damage boost when you block too, making it significantly better than coven's
Does Blood Brother's block work with Shield Block? I thought it was a seperate chance, not tied to your shield in any way.
It works with shield block. Which is basically the entire point of its design (offense for defense)
Theoretically the two would stack for even more DR, whether it's additive or multiplicative would mean a lot. Lose all the damage though. Might not result in total wrath starvation, but that's dependent on giving up more damage for RCR in a couple slots.
Might be worth considering in an attempt at Roland's Support though.
Well I don't play Hardcore so I couldn't say for sure, but I probably wouldn't risk it on 50+. Unity does give great damage reduction, but you lose a good chunk of damage by not having F+R. I don't use Unity and I can run 46's without dying. I have 38 mil toughness without any of my defensive skills(Iron skin, Law, and Prophet) so no real need for unity. Why would you suggest F+R for only Sweep? It's amazing for Bash, I'm critting for up to 1.4 bil without AC or pylons.
Very very interesting... Has anyone tested it's interaction with Salvation. Could be interesting if the 20/30% heal procced from Blood Brother's block as well.
Why wouldn't it? It adds to your block chance. Anything that procs off of block chance will benefit from Blood Brother. But what build would you use it with? Every build I can think of requires a specific shield or weapon or both.
Yeah I was trying to think of one but can't...
Maybe some kind of "I'm special in my own way!" punish build. BB, Salvation, Depth Diggers, Strength of Simplicity etcetc.
Might work when the new Blessed Hammer set comes out
An alternative support build? Of course at that point I'd probably end up using a Criterion if the goal is pure personal survival (and lots of provoke). For non-50+ builds there's the "Thorns" Punish build in T6. I've seen it work to mid 30's personally, but it's definitely not really a progression build.
The last option is a Blessed Hammers build, but honestly I think Blessed of Haul w/ Justice would outperform melee hammers.
Well if you are going for thorns, Vo'Toyias seems to be a better choice. Until they fix blessed hammer, it will never be more than supplementary damage.(Currently each hammer can only hit each enemy once)
The build in question is more about endless Roar+Retaliate procs rather than actual thorns damage.
Wow i havent thought of coven criterion that sounds like a great idea. Covens criterion plus 50-60% cdr and use shield glare, provoke and law of valor for wrath regen. I have seen a build on youtube that doesnt use piro. He was trying to prove that piro is not a must for infinite wrath. Wouldnt this build provide more survivalability?
I think you could make a decent "Tank" support build with Punish, Angel Hair Braid Blood Brother and Coven's Critereon...
I maye have to put this to the test
You don't want to use Angel Hair Braid with BB. I'm not sure if it is a bug or intended, but right now Roar and Retaliate proc BB's 30% damage bonus after blocking meaning you won't get it for your shield bash or whatever spending you are using.
This would be for a "Play Your Way" Punish build, amping up Primary damage as much as possible. I would of course HAVE a spender, but it would be something cheap I could spam to get more procs out of Zodiac ring to get the CD on Provoke and Iron Skin as low as possible.
Might even go Sweep Attack and 2pc Roland's to get that 1sec off on attack. Combine that with Holy Shock for the healing.