they all have ofc a socket with the same gem in it
I had many different opinions on what the best combination for a standard light barb is, so I did some test run on GHOM, t4, using only ww, overpower and war cry. No wotb, no avalanche, ecc
The results are:
SOH+TF= 53'' average (8 runs)
OS + TF= 1'12'' average (5 runs)
OS+ Fulminator= 1'16'' average (3 runs)
OS+SK= 1'19'' average (2 runs)
OS+SOH= 46'' average (7 runs)
This is by no mean the solution to the question, for the particular boss I decided to fight, but the difference in effective dps among the weapons is quite impressive. I might be because SOH benefit from +xx% to lightning and TF doesn't. I do not know.
Apparently, SOH+TF and SOH+TF are similar with a little advantage for the first solution, but the roll on my TF is much better then my OS, so I'll go with ODYN SON and SHARD OF HATE for the moment. What is certain is that, even after the bug fix, Shard of Hate is the best in slot for light barb.
I'll like to test it out also in different situation: any idea where?
I'm surprised that the Fulminator outperformed the Sun Keeper, because as as my testing goes its proc does nothing to Ghom. I realize that it has better DPS and strength rolls, but I figured the 30% elite damage would sway things in favor of the Sun Keeper.
Why not just use frenzy for the tests, less movement and chance of flawed results? Also, try Sun Keeper + Shard of Hate, might yield good results with proc +30% elite dmg.
why you didnt tested Sky splitter weapon? i used and works very good too
Because I wanted to know the best combination of weapons for a lightning build and sky splitter is not good enough. The problem, when the main damage dealer is ww, is the lack of effective dps. The build works well only because of the secondary effect of weapons and skysplitter just stun the enemies. It is a good weapon indeed, but not good enough for that build. In terms of killing time, btw, would have been as good as a yellow weapon with same stats.
Why not just use frenzy for the tests, less movement and chance of flawed results? Also, try Sun Keeper + Shard of Hate, might yield good results with proc +30% elite dmg.
Because the point is deciding the best combination of weapons when running ww lightning. Frenzy will be misleading also because it proc soh 100% of the times.
I have all the weapons as well and my favorite combo is SoH and tf over odyn/tf. It seems odyns proc hits hard but its a SLOW weapon vs a sword which is fast. SoH procs off frenzy and does insane single target dps.
I think the OP meant his chain lightning proc is a 27% chance to trigger.
I'm also torn between SOH/Odyn Son and SOH/TF. TF procs more and has the attack/speed debuff and hits more targets in a group fight. However, Odyn seems to crit abnormally hard and can triple hit single targets. Odyn is better for main handing, but I also don't like the slow speed (and also the different attack speeds between dual wield hands). I feel like overpower refreshes a lot faster with two swords, even though it doesn't hit as hard.
Another factor to consider is Odyn Son may benefit from lightning skill damage (in my quick testing), and also buffs the damage of SOH procs. For whatever reason, the Odyn Son chain lightning crits a lot harder than TF.
why you didnt tested Sky splitter weapon? i used and works very good too
Because I wanted to know the best combination of weapons for a lightning build and sky splitter is not good enough. The problem, when the main damage dealer is ww, is the lack of effective dps. The build works well only because of the secondary effect of weapons and skysplitter just stun the enemies. It is a good weapon indeed, but not good enough for that build. In terms of killing time, btw, would have been as good as a yellow weapon with same stats.
Sky Splitter no longer just stuns enemies, it does 750% weapon damage now as well, and is affected by +lightning damage.
Procs are NOT buffed by elemental damage... none of them. They say WEAPON damage. They go off your character sheet, minus the speed calc. Test it out sometime with a Thunderfury. Stack all your Lightning gear, with say around 750-850k (in decent gear) and look how much it crits for. Then put on the best damage gear you can (ignoring attack speed), lets put that around 1mil... look at the crits again and you'll see the difference.
Passive skills like Berserker Rage, Brawler, Ruthless and Weapons Master all increase the damage, just like they would standard weapon damage.
The reason Thunderfury is still so good for Lightning Barb is that is it fast, always has a socket and Strength (leaving a free roll to boost the damage or add 6-10% bonus when bug is fixed), and the proc is very high weapon damage %, and bounces 5 times!
Ideally, you should have a Sunkeeper in your bags for the boss fights, but use TF / SoH / OS based on which rolled nicer (higher dps / Str / Proc %)
This is a fantastic post. Thanks for it. It also kinda explain why SOH+OS ended up being so effective.
I was doing the test whit quite some lightning damage %.
SoH scales with elemental dmg, cause its proc by an elemental dmg. Thunderfury is only a chance on hit. Not a skill.
By this line of thinking, Odyn Son would also not benefit from ele damage, but according to the excellent Proc post mentioned above, it does. Not sure why two different "Chain Lightning" procs would react differently from ele damage, but I'm willing to admit I was wrong about certain items gaining lightning damage %.
Unless you are just extremely unlucky, or very casual/RPing, there is no good reason to use lightning at all in my experience.
Physical and Fire are both superior in terms of abilities and gearing options.
4pc IK + Ancients Fury + Physical Stack + Physical Seismic/HOTA or Spear is gross.
5pc Raekors + any number of abilities and a Fire or Physical stack is gross.
4pc IK + Fire stack + HOTA stack + Smash hitting for 25-50million is gross.
Fire strack + 4pc Earthquake + Lut Socks is gross.
Lightning... not so impressive.
SOH + Frenzy is static, slow, and unimpressive compared to the above.
SOH + Thunderstrike is okay, but nothing great in my testing.
Odyn's Son doesn't "fix" lightning, nor do any combination of abilities I've tested. If there was a Cindercoat equivalent and some of the lightning abilities were brought in line with physical and fire options in terms of damage, sure. Until thing, lightning is only good for clearly weak difficulties for your damage output (Normal - T1/2 farming).
I was clearing T5 rifts last night as pure lightning without an issue. Yes, Fire puts out more damage than Lightning, but survival aspect allows me to use a very interesting combo of passives.
Note that Parthan Defenders reduce damage by 11% PER CREATURE I stun. Combined with Leap (Death From Above) and constant Smite Stunning, I am almost always taking 20%+ less damage. The addition of ancients absorbing 50% damage allows me to literally take nothing defensive in abilities or passives. When Fury is full, ignoring Rampage and Frenzy stacks, I'm at 1.03 mil dps. Full Rampage with 5 stacks of frenzy puts me at 1.55 mil on character sheet. Leaping with Lightning doesn't actually add anything beneficial, just nice damage from EQ, and the additional EQ no longer costs Fury so I can keep my Berserker Rage going at all times.
Lightning Leap is still a work in progress for me, as I don't have ideal weapons or neckpiece, but so far it allows me to roll through T5 almost as easily as when I roll Cold Leaper.
Clearing T5 rifts without issue defensively and clearing them quickly and efficiently are two very different things that should be distinguished when discussing build strength. Huge congrats on the elusive 4pc Earth set! Awesome stuff!
The difference in Earthquake runes from 2600% lightning and 4600% fire alone is enormous. Do you think that the Fury cost savings vs the damage reduction are worth it? Furthermore, do you think that your damage output would not be greater with HoTA Thunderstrike and use of the Earthen Might passive for nearly endless Fury? Obviously, fire excels in this mode with Cindercoat, but even without seems like HoTA would be a major DPS boost. Most people with your gear don't use primary generators any longer.
I'm not using Lightning EQ simply for Fury savings... I'm merely testing out builds that are NOT fire. The focus of this build was actually to test out Max Fury builds (no spenders to heal). I'm a big fan of experimenting with builds. Also, I see efficiency as killing quickly AND not dying. Numerous times running as pure fire I find myself dying fairly regularly, and very quickly when I do. So far I have experimented with Cold, Lightning and Fire Leap builds, all with Ancients and can say the following:
Fire: EQ absolutely destroys, Ancients hit like a truck (using Council Rises), regular deaths on T5 & T6 occur.
Cold: EQ freezes EVERYTHING for entire duration. Ancients feed Fury allowing for Slam Spam (Permafrost) and excellent usage of Strongarm Bracers (Almost everything triggers them in my build). Rarely die on T5 & T6.
Lightning: Character sheet DPS is super High. Take very low incoming damage. Ancients provide defense, nice damage output, and survive pretty well. Almost never die, even without spenders.
Speed of runs for me has been Cold -> Fire -> Lightning, and Fire is second only because I randomly get nuked.
Again, I'm merely showing off a Pure Lightning build that is viable for T5 since this is a Lightning thread
He's being a jackass but he's right. It wouldn't matter if you used frenzy, weapon throw or whirlwind. The difference is that tf can proc off of multiple enemies at once when you use whirlwind, while soh only procs on attack, so it has no advantage in attacking multiple enemies at once (it's a broken weapon that blizzard will likely never fix). So when you're whirlwinding ghom, tf and odyn are not going to get that proc advantage from hitting multiple enemies at once.
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ODYN SON: 2078 dps, 636 strength, 27% light damage
SHARD OF HATE: 2160 dps, 728 str
THUNDER FURY: 2233 dps, 705 str, 363% weapon damage
FULMINATOR: 2149 dps, 744 str, 204% weapon damage
SUNKEEPER: 2097 dps, 663 str, 30% damage to elite
they all have ofc a socket with the same gem in it
I had many different opinions on what the best combination for a standard light barb is, so I did some test run on GHOM, t4, using only ww, overpower and war cry. No wotb, no avalanche, ecc
The results are:
SOH+TF= 53'' average (8 runs)
OS + TF= 1'12'' average (5 runs)
OS+ Fulminator= 1'16'' average (3 runs)
OS+SK= 1'19'' average (2 runs)
OS+SOH= 46'' average (7 runs)
This is by no mean the solution to the question, for the particular boss I decided to fight, but the difference in effective dps among the weapons is quite impressive. I might be because SOH benefit from +xx% to lightning and TF doesn't. I do not know.
Apparently, SOH+TF and SOH+TF are similar with a little advantage for the first solution, but the roll on my TF is much better then my OS, so I'll go with ODYN SON and SHARD OF HATE for the moment. What is certain is that, even after the bug fix, Shard of Hate is the best in slot for light barb.
I'll like to test it out also in different situation: any idea where?
I'll give a go to soh+sk btw and post results.
Edit: I just tested fulminator on a single target, with bash, and it looks like maybe the proc does damage the main target once when applied.Edit 2: I goofed and left my Andariel's Visage on while testing. As expected, Fulminator does nothing to single targets in my experience.
On a side note....27% odyn? since when.
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/barrybondz-1111/hero/17437659
I'm also torn between SOH/Odyn Son and SOH/TF. TF procs more and has the attack/speed debuff and hits more targets in a group fight. However, Odyn seems to crit abnormally hard and can triple hit single targets. Odyn is better for main handing, but I also don't like the slow speed (and also the different attack speeds between dual wield hands). I feel like overpower refreshes a lot faster with two swords, even though it doesn't hit as hard.
Another factor to consider is Odyn Son may benefit from lightning skill damage (in my quick testing), and also buffs the damage of SOH procs. For whatever reason, the Odyn Son chain lightning crits a lot harder than TF.
Are all proc effect affected from + elemental damage %?
Passive skills like Berserker Rage, Brawler, Ruthless and Weapons Master all increase the damage, just like they would standard weapon damage.
The reason Thunderfury is still so good for Lightning Barb is that is it fast, always has a socket and Strength (leaving a free roll to boost the damage or add 6-10% bonus when bug is fixed), and the proc is very high weapon damage %, and bounces 5 times!
Ideally, you should have a Sunkeeper in your bags for the boss fights, but use TF / SoH / OS based on which rolled nicer (higher dps / Str / Proc %)
My TF has 367% proc. and it crits for 3.6m to 3.9m.
My SoH has a 212% proc and hits for 3.9m to 4.2m.
It's seems like TF isn't affected but SoH is. But If you do the math TF should still be hitting for more than SoH (212% x50% = 318%).
In my experience, it seems like Thunderfury is not, but Shard of Hate and Odyn Son are.
I was doing the test whit quite some lightning damage %.
I might try without it just to confirm.
Physical and Fire are both superior in terms of abilities and gearing options.
4pc IK + Ancients Fury + Physical Stack + Physical Seismic/HOTA or Spear is gross.
5pc Raekors + any number of abilities and a Fire or Physical stack is gross.
4pc IK + Fire stack + HOTA stack + Smash hitting for 25-50million is gross.
Fire strack + 4pc Earthquake + Lut Socks is gross.
Lightning... not so impressive.
SOH + Frenzy is static, slow, and unimpressive compared to the above.
SOH + Thunderstrike is okay, but nothing great in my testing.
Odyn's Son doesn't "fix" lightning, nor do any combination of abilities I've tested. If there was a Cindercoat equivalent and some of the lightning abilities were brought in line with physical and fire options in terms of damage, sure. Until thing, lightning is only good for clearly weak difficulties for your damage output (Normal - T1/2 farming).
Build: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian#WXdTjR!YXjZ!YcZbcc
Profile: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Leland-1340/hero/47547889
Note that Parthan Defenders reduce damage by 11% PER CREATURE I stun. Combined with Leap (Death From Above) and constant Smite Stunning, I am almost always taking 20%+ less damage. The addition of ancients absorbing 50% damage allows me to literally take nothing defensive in abilities or passives. When Fury is full, ignoring Rampage and Frenzy stacks, I'm at 1.03 mil dps. Full Rampage with 5 stacks of frenzy puts me at 1.55 mil on character sheet. Leaping with Lightning doesn't actually add anything beneficial, just nice damage from EQ, and the additional EQ no longer costs Fury so I can keep my Berserker Rage going at all times.
Lightning Leap is still a work in progress for me, as I don't have ideal weapons or neckpiece, but so far it allows me to roll through T5 almost as easily as when I roll Cold Leaper.
Clearing T5 rifts without issue defensively and clearing them quickly and efficiently are two very different things that should be distinguished when discussing build strength. Huge congrats on the elusive 4pc Earth set! Awesome stuff!
The difference in Earthquake runes from 2600% lightning and 4600% fire alone is enormous. Do you think that the Fury cost savings vs the damage reduction are worth it? Furthermore, do you think that your damage output would not be greater with HoTA Thunderstrike and use of the Earthen Might passive for nearly endless Fury? Obviously, fire excels in this mode with Cindercoat, but even without seems like HoTA would be a major DPS boost. Most people with your gear don't use primary generators any longer.
Fire: EQ absolutely destroys, Ancients hit like a truck (using Council Rises), regular deaths on T5 & T6 occur.
Cold: EQ freezes EVERYTHING for entire duration. Ancients feed Fury allowing for Slam Spam (Permafrost) and excellent usage of Strongarm Bracers (Almost everything triggers them in my build). Rarely die on T5 & T6.
Lightning: Character sheet DPS is super High. Take very low incoming damage. Ancients provide defense, nice damage output, and survive pretty well. Almost never die, even without spenders.
Speed of runs for me has been Cold -> Fire -> Lightning, and Fire is second only because I randomly get nuked.
Again, I'm merely showing off a Pure Lightning build that is viable for T5 since this is a Lightning thread