Normally I like well rounded characters and tend not to focus an entire build around just one thing.

After seeing Jay Wilson talk about Inferno and needing massive single point damage, it got me thinking of a Barb with the highest Crit% and damage output. A boss killer.

Yielding an Axe, this build has the potential (with all buffs triggered) to have a 43% Critical Hit Chance and dishing out +820% Damage!... if my math is right.

What do you guys think? Too much focus on single damage and hoping the Critical modifiers pop?

For solo i'd pick something like this: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian#aZRkiP!ZYS!YZbYac
Probably switching "Marauder's rage" for "Into the fray" and using not axes but a mighty wep for maxing out uptime of WotB (up to 30-35 seconds active if lucky enough which is almost 33% uptime with a Boon).
But of course that's a 100% theoretical build, gonna see how it works at least in Normal/Nightmare.

I'm a sucker for attack speed so personally I'd definitely go for frenzy. But I'd do that even if it was less efficient than bash, just because I don't like slower attacks. At the same time I'm also considering to build a crit barb as my first character. But wouldn't it always be a better choice to pick frenzy? More crit chance, less overkill?

Well I did some math on Frenzy+Maniac Vs Bash+Onslaught.

Thanks @Gryzorz, you got me thinking about it some more, but I don't think your formula is correct as you simply cannot have anything less than 1 complete attack (you cannot have .15 of an attack). The build up to maximum damage must also be taken into account.

Comparing these 2 skills has to count the total number of attacks for each Skill within the same amount of time.

This is what I came up with..... and I think its pretty accurate.
_____________________________________________________

Calculations using a hypothetical attack speed of 1 attack per second.

FRENZY + MANIAC

1 sec - 110%
.85 sec - 114% -- (224%)
.70 sec - 118% -- (342%)
.55 sec - 122% -- (464% -- 3.1 sec -- Bash has done 582%, striking 3 times Vs Frenzy's 4)
.40 sec - 126% -- (590% -- 3.5 sec -- At this point Frenzy has struck again before Bash can)
.25 sec - 130% -- (720% -- 3.75 sec -- Frenzy has stuck a 2nd time before Bash can)
.25 sec - 130% -- (850% -- 4 sec -- Bash has now Hit for 194%, much less than Frenzy's 130% however, Frenzy has struck a total of 3 times more in the same amount of time, resulting in more damage being done)

Total Damage in 4 seconds = 850%

Damage in the following 4 seconds once Frenzy has stacked is as follows. Total = 2080%
1 sec - (4x Attacks @130) = 520
1 sec - (4x Attacks @130) = 520
1 sec - (4x Attacks @130) = 520
1 sec - (4x Attacks @130) = 520

Total Damage in 8 seconds = 2930%
_______________________________________________

Well I did some math on Frenzy+Maniac Vs Bash+Onslaught.

Thanks @Gryzorz, you got me thinking about it some more, but I don't think your formula is correct as you simply cannot have anything less than 1 complete attack (you cannot have .15 of an attack). The build up to maximum damage must also be taken into account.

Comparing these 2 skills has to count the total number of attacks for each Skill within the same amount of time.

This is what I came up with..... and I think its pretty accurate.
_____________________________________________________

Calculations using a hypothetical attack speed of 1 attack per second.

FRENZY + MANIAC

1 sec - 110%
.85 sec - 114% -- (224%)
.70 sec - 118% -- (342%)
.55 sec - 122% -- (464% -- 3.1 sec -- Bash has done 582%, striking 3 times Vs Frenzy's 4)
.40 sec - 126% -- (590% -- 3.5 sec -- At this point Frenzy has struck again before Bash can)
.25 sec - 130% -- (720% -- 3.75 sec -- Frenzy has stuck a 2nd time before Bash can)
.25 sec - 130% -- (850% -- 4 sec -- Bash has now Hit for 194%, much less than Frenzy's 130% however, Frenzy has struck a total of 3 times more in the same amount of time, resulting in more damage being done)

Total Damage in 4 seconds = 850%

Damage in the following 4 seconds once Frenzy has stacked is as follows. Total = 2080%
1 sec - (4x Attacks @130) = 520
1 sec - (4x Attacks @130) = 520
1 sec - (4x Attacks @130) = 520
1 sec - (4x Attacks @130) = 520

Total Damage in 8 seconds = 2930%
_______________________________________________

Total Damage in 4 seconds = 776%
Total Damage in 8 seconds = 1552% (damage simply doubled, no modifiers applicable)

_______________________________________________

What this basically means, is that unless an enemy is destroyed by Bash+Onslaught in 3 strikes or less, Frenzy+Maniac does more damage.

Not to rude, but your math is wrong, that is not how you calculate attack speed. here is a handy formula for attack speed

Attack_speed = current attack speed / (("Percent increase or decrease" / 100) + 1 )

Remember there is a difference in increasing attack speed, not decreasing the amount of time between attacks. So you have to have a 100% increase in attack speed to be hitting ever 0.5 seconds given your example. I could show you what the correct answer, but as a math teacher, I feel like you should work it out youself as to help remember it in the future :Thumbs Up:

Well I did some math on Frenzy+Maniac Vs Bash+Onslaught.

Thanks @Gryzorz, you got me thinking about it some more, but I don't think your formula is correct as you simply cannot have anything less than 1 complete attack (you cannot have .15 of an attack). The build up to maximum damage must also be taken into account.

Comparing these 2 skills has to count the total number of attacks for each Skill within the same amount of time.

This is what I came up with..... and I think its pretty accurate.
_____________________________________________________

Calculations using a hypothetical attack speed of 1 attack per second.

FRENZY + MANIAC

1 sec - 110%
.85 sec - 114% -- (224%)
.70 sec - 118% -- (342%)
.55 sec - 122% -- (464% -- 3.1 sec -- Bash has done 582%, striking 3 times Vs Frenzy's 4)
.40 sec - 126% -- (590% -- 3.5 sec -- At this point Frenzy has struck again before Bash can)
.25 sec - 130% -- (720% -- 3.75 sec -- Frenzy has stuck a 2nd time before Bash can)
.25 sec - 130% -- (850% -- 4 sec -- Bash has now Hit for 194%, much less than Frenzy's 130% however, Frenzy has struck a total of 3 times more in the same amount of time, resulting in more damage being done)

Total Damage in 4 seconds = 850%

Damage in the following 4 seconds once Frenzy has stacked is as follows. Total = 2080%
1 sec - (4x Attacks @130) = 520
1 sec - (4x Attacks @130) = 520
1 sec - (4x Attacks @130) = 520
1 sec - (4x Attacks @130) = 520

Total Damage in 8 seconds = 2930%
_______________________________________________

Total Damage in 4 seconds = 776%
Total Damage in 8 seconds = 1552% (damage simply doubled, no modifiers applicable)

_______________________________________________

What this basically means, is that unless an enemy is destroyed by Bash+Onslaught in 3 strikes or less, Frenzy+Maniac does more damage.

Not to rude, but your math is wrong, that is not how you calculate attack speed. here is a handy formula for attack speed

Attack_speed = current attack speed / (("Percent increase or decrease" / 100) + 1 )

Remember there is a difference in increasing attack speed, not decreasing the amount of time between attacks. So you have to have a 100% increase in attack speed to be hitting ever 0.5 seconds given your example. I could show you what the correct answer, but as a math teacher, I feel like you should work it out youself as to help remember it in the future :Thumbs Up:

Wow guys how do you come up with this, im so lost lol

Yeh, looks like its back to the drawing board and I've been looking at attack speed all wrong.

As for hypothetical builds... your right, but whats the harm in thinking about skills and such before the game is even here? Its not like I'm spending more time looking at numbers and stats that simply playing the game.. I cant play the game, so this just keeps me occupied until then.

I've crunched some more numbers on the Frenzy Vs Bash thing and started a new thread about it.

The results are over there.

As for this build, I dont think he could be on his own at all.

As a few others have pointed out he has no damage reduction or armour buffs whatsoever. He has no AOE either, all he does is hit one enemy really hard.

He would need support class for sure. Couple of Monks maybe to increase armour/health/damage reduction, thin out the ranks of the minions and just have the Barb take out the Leaders/Bosses.

Well I did some math on Frenzy+Maniac Vs Bash+Onslaught.

Thanks @Gryzorz, you got me thinking about it some more, but I don't think your formula is correct as you simply cannot have anything less than 1 complete attack (you cannot have .15 of an attack). The build up to maximum damage must also be taken into account.

Comparing these 2 skills has to count the total number of attacks for each Skill within the same amount of time.

This is what I came up with..... and I think its pretty accurate.
_____________________________________________________

Calculations using a hypothetical attack speed of 1 attack per second.

FRENZY + MANIAC

1 sec - 110%
.85 sec - 114% -- (224%)
.70 sec - 118% -- (342%)
.55 sec - 122% -- (464% -- 3.1 sec -- Bash has done 582%, striking 3 times Vs Frenzy's 4)
.40 sec - 126% -- (590% -- 3.5 sec -- At this point Frenzy has struck again before Bash can)
.25 sec - 130% -- (720% -- 3.75 sec -- Frenzy has stuck a 2nd time before Bash can)
.25 sec - 130% -- (850% -- 4 sec -- Bash has now Hit for 194%, much less than Frenzy's 130% however, Frenzy has struck a total of 3 times more in the same amount of time, resulting in more damage being done)

Total Damage in 4 seconds = 850%

Damage in the following 4 seconds once Frenzy has stacked is as follows. Total = 2080%
1 sec - (4x Attacks @130) = 520
1 sec - (4x Attacks @130) = 520
1 sec - (4x Attacks @130) = 520
1 sec - (4x Attacks @130) = 520

Total Damage in 8 seconds = 2930%
_______________________________________________

Total Damage in 4 seconds = 776%
Total Damage in 8 seconds = 1552% (damage simply doubled, no modifiers applicable)

_______________________________________________

What this basically means, is that unless an enemy is destroyed by Bash+Onslaught in 3 strikes or less, Frenzy+Maniac does more damage.

Not to rude, but your math is wrong, that is not how you calculate attack speed. here is a handy formula for attack speed

Attack_speed = current attack speed / (("Percent increase or decrease" / 100) + 1 )

Remember there is a difference in increasing attack speed, not decreasing the amount of time between attacks. So you have to have a 100% increase in attack speed to be hitting ever 0.5 seconds given your example. I could show you what the correct answer, but as a math teacher, I feel like you should work it out youself as to help remember it in the future :Thumbs Up:

Wow guys how do you come up with this, im so lost lol

Agreed !

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After seeing Jay Wilson talk about Inferno and needing massive single point damage, it got me thinking of a Barb with the highest Crit% and damage output. A boss killer.

Came up with this...

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian#aZXViP!ZYS!ZZcZaZ

Yielding an Axe, this build has the potential (with all buffs triggered) to have a 43% Critical Hit Chance and dishing out +820% Damage!... if my math is right.

What do you guys think? Too much focus on single damage and hoping the Critical modifiers pop?

Plus, I don't think Revenge would be good because it's only 15% to trigger from being hit, and you don't want to be getting hit lol.

-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8CBbeSAjVo

-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hI4peeO3yzY

LOL -http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcJ_XT3oWtY

Thanks for the constructive criticism.

Any chance you can explain why attack speed would be more beneficial than damage over a single target and why Bul-Kathos is a poor choice?

He won't explain it lol, he goes around shitting on any thread that doesn't look 100% cookie cutter and never provides any reasoning.

Would love to be proved wrong.

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian#aZRkiP!ZYS!YZbYac

Probably switching "Marauder's rage" for "Into the fray" and using not axes but a mighty wep for maxing out uptime of WotB (up to 30-35 seconds active if lucky enough which is almost 33% uptime with a Boon).

But of course that's a 100% theoretical build, gonna see how it works at least in Normal/Nightmare.

Thanks @Gryzorz, you got me thinking about it some more, but I don't think your formula is correct as you simply cannot have anything less than 1 complete attack (you cannot have .15 of an attack). The build up to maximum damage must also be taken into account.

Comparing these 2 skills has to count the total number of attacks for each Skill within the same amount of time.

This is what I came up with..... and I think its pretty accurate.

_____________________________________________________

1 sec - 110%

.85 sec - 114% -- (224%)

.70 sec - 118% -- (342%)

.55 sec - 122% -- (464% -- 3.1 sec -- Bash has done 582%, striking 3 times Vs Frenzy's 4)

.40 sec - 126% -- (590% -- 3.5 sec -- At this point Frenzy has struck again before Bash can)

.25 sec - 130% -- (720% -- 3.75 sec -- Frenzy has stuck a 2nd time before Bash can)

.25 sec - 130% -- (850% -- 4 sec -- Bash has now Hit for 194%, much less than Frenzy's 130% however, Frenzy has struck a total of 3 times more in the same amount of time, resulting in more damage being done)

Total Damage in 4 seconds = 850%

Damage in the following 4 seconds once Frenzy has stacked is as follows. Total = 2080%

1 sec - (4x Attacks @130) = 520

1 sec - (4x Attacks @130) = 520

1 sec - (4x Attacks @130) = 520

1 sec - (4x Attacks @130) = 520

Total Damage in 8 seconds = 2930%

_______________________________________________

1 sec - 194%

1 sec - 194% -- 388%

1 sec - 194% -- 582%

1 sec - 194% -- 776%

Total Damage in 4 seconds = 776%

Total Damage in 8 seconds = 1552% (damage simply doubled, no modifiers applicable)

_______________________________________________

What this basically means, is that unless an enemy is destroyed by Bash+Onslaught in

3 strikes or less, Frenzy+Maniac does more damage.Not to rude, but your math is wrong, that is not how you calculate attack speed. here is a handy formula for attack speed

Attack_speed = current attack speed / (("Percent increase or decrease" / 100) + 1 )

Remember there is a difference in increasing attack speed, not decreasing the amount of time between attacks. So you have to have a 100% increase in attack speed to be hitting ever 0.5 seconds given your example. I could show you what the correct answer, but as a math teacher, I feel like you should work it out youself as to help remember it in the future :Thumbs Up:

Wow guys how do you come up with this, im so lost lol

As for hypothetical builds... your right, but whats the harm in thinking about skills and such before the game is even here? Its not like I'm spending more time looking at numbers and stats that simply playing the game.. I cant play the game, so this just keeps me occupied until then.

The results are over there.

As for this build, I dont think he could be on his own at all.

As a few others have pointed out he has no damage reduction or armour buffs whatsoever. He has no AOE either, all he does is hit one enemy really hard.

He would need support class for sure. Couple of Monks maybe to increase armour/health/damage reduction, thin out the ranks of the minions and just have the Barb take out the Leaders/Bosses.

Agreed !