As I've been playing LoD, I've come across a few things I'd like to know, and can't find through google. Here's where to put them.
1 question that I've been thinking of a bit is about damage increases.
Example: If I'm a lightning sorceress, I'm using Lightning. It does 1-100 damage. My Chain Lightning is level 5, thus giving a synergy of 40%. My Lightning Mastery gives 50%. Do I have 190 damage, or do I have 210?
Now say I'm a barbrian. I do 10-20 damage. I have bash adding 100% damage. I have sword mastery adding 50%. I have a paladin giving me 120% from fanatisism. How much damage do I do? What order do you calculate damage adds?
Formulas please.
Note: All numbers fictional, just for reference and ease of calculation.
10-20 (base) x 50% with smastery, is 15-40, + 100% of that for bash is 30-80, and + 120% of that for fana is 66-176. uh i think.
mastery first as its passive and always on, then bash, then fana, as you might not always been in fana's radius.
as for lightning, 1-100 (base) 50% for mastery makes it 1-150 and then 40% of that is 1-210. not sure if the minimum damage for lightning is set at 1 or if it can be modded by synergies masteries, if it can you damage at the end would be 2.1-210 which i think would round to 2-210. again not sure.
synergy should be added later as they dont exist in non expansion (uh least i dont think they do)
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
-Humankind cannot gain anything without first giving something in return. To obtain, something of equal value must be lost. That is alchemy's First Law of Equivalent Exchange. In those days, we really believed that to be the world's one, and only, truth.
They do exist in non-expansion, but they were introduced later in a patch, as they were in LoD. They were implemented at the same time in both versions.
And thanks, but to be honest you don't sound very sure lol. I'll take this as my current hypothesis. If I could play D2 at the mo' I would check it myself through experimentation.
So all the things stack. I thought it be so, but in games like D&D it would be calculated as 100+50%=50 extra, 100+40%=40 extra, 100+50+40=190. So I was slightly confused.
i never played non LOD after LOD came out so i didnt know that synergies were implemented into it.
pretty sure things stack. then again they might not ive never looking into the mechanics but i think you have base damage, the you factor in masteries (if any) as they are always on you cannot remove them, then it would be a skill like bash or zeal that is interchangable, then synergies if they apply, then you factor in auras/bonuses from other players, as they would only apply if there is other players.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
-Humankind cannot gain anything without first giving something in return. To obtain, something of equal value must be lost. That is alchemy's First Law of Equivalent Exchange. In those days, we really believed that to be the world's one, and only, truth.
I was thinking, your explanation, at least the barb one, makes sense.
I mean, you look at damage w/attack, and put bash on right-click. It's directly added to attack. Then you add an aura, and it goes directly on top of that. I'm 95% you're right.
at lvl one of course there wouldnt me much difference, also i had no paly to fana me.
if i try to get a formula it would be;
Damage=base+(basex(mastery%ofbase))+(skill(base+(basex(mastery%ofbase))))+synergy((skill%(base+(basex(mastery%ofbase)))
D=B+(BxM)+(SK(B+(BxM)))+(SY(SK(B+(BxM))))
ok hope thats not too confusing, i dont have time to simplify it
so its 3-7 as the base, mastery adds +28% so 3-7 +( 3-7x0.28) = (3+0.84) - (7+1.96) = 3.84-8.96, which rounds to 4-9
Bash at lvl 1 is +50% so thats D = 4-9 + 0.5(4-9). D = 4-9 + (0.5x4-9) = (4+2) - (9+4.5) = 6 - 13.5, and somehow that comes to 7-12.
Stun at lvl 1 is +8%, so thats, and ill once again take the offical numbers i got from the game, not my math from above so D = 7-12 + 0.08(7-12) = (7+0.56) - (12+0.96) = 7.56-12.96 and that according to blizzard rounds to 7-13
ok i get the rounding to 13, but shouldnt 7.56 round to 8?
lol math on that is not so good blizzard, (or me)
and thats without any strength modding it further.
now to get even 1 lvl to lightning you need to get 1 lvl to Charged bolt, and doing so activates the synergy, so you might assume synergy comes before mastery, but the was a time when synergies didnt apply, so i fairly certain they would come after the mastery.
also if you think of it in terms of a formla with terms a+B+c=d and each have a value, can a value not be 0? i.e each term would only apply if it has a value.
so to use my formula from above
D=B+(BxM)+(SK(B+(BxM)))+(SY(SK(B+(BxM))))
Base = 1-40 mastery is +20% and each synergy is 8%
D= 1-40 + (1-40x0.2) = 1+0.5-40+20 = 1.5-60.
but most of the lightning skills have a set minimum damage of 1. so that makes it 1-60.
no skill adds to damage like bash does for the barb so the value for (SK(B+(BxM%))) is 0
ok synergies
8% for each 1 and there are 3 of them.
D= 1-60 + 0.08(1-60) = 1+0.08-60+4.5 = 1.08-64.5 which blizzard has rounded to 1-64.
one synergy down 2 more to go
D = 1-64 + 0.08(1-64) = 1+0.08=64+5.12 = 1.08-69.12 which blizzard has rounded to 1-69.
last synergy!!!
D = 1-69 + 0.08(1-69) = 1+0.08=69+5.52 = 1.08-74.52 which blizzard has rounded to 1-74.
ok man that was a lot of work/crazyness, hope it helped you out.
oh and for reference for the sorc its;
lvl 20 lightning = 1-200 damage
lvl 20 Mastery = 3-1274 damage
lvl 20 Charge bolt = 3-2837 damage
lvl 20 Nova = 3-4400 damage
lvl 20 Chain Lightning = 3-5963 damage
hmm seems i was wrong about the minimum of 1 damage, could have sworn thunderstorm was the only exception to that rule, but i suppose with maxed mastery and synergies it will do that.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
-Humankind cannot gain anything without first giving something in return. To obtain, something of equal value must be lost. That is alchemy's First Law of Equivalent Exchange. In those days, we really believed that to be the world's one, and only, truth.
only encorperates your character, then you have things like Enchant (E(SY(SK(B+(BxM))))), then you have auras (A(E(SY(SK(B+(BxM)))))) and finally shrine (SH((A(E(SY(SK(B+(BxM))))))), so yeh lots of things adding to damage (D)
but its gets pretty crazy at this point. max skill, max mastery, max synergies, enchant, aura, shrine, and considering how the formula works damn.
full formula i think is;
D=B+(BxM)+(SK(B+(BxM)))+(SY(SK(B+(BxM))))+(E(SY(SK(B+(BxM)))))+(A(E(SY(SK(B+(BxM))))))+(SH((A(E(SY(SK(B+(BxM))))))).
each new term adds a percentage of the previous term to the previous term.
D=b+%b+%(b+%b)+(%(b+%b)) and so on, and so on for each thing that adds to your damage be it a skill, synergy or shrine
all that work and it serves no real purpose, lol
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
-Humankind cannot gain anything without first giving something in return. To obtain, something of equal value must be lost. That is alchemy's First Law of Equivalent Exchange. In those days, we really believed that to be the world's one, and only, truth.
he wanted to know the calculate for damage so i tried to figure it out, that what i came up with and somehow it works as in the two examples above.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
-Humankind cannot gain anything without first giving something in return. To obtain, something of equal value must be lost. That is alchemy's First Law of Equivalent Exchange. In those days, we really believed that to be the world's one, and only, truth.
Well that's all very complicated, but I get it. Thanks.
Now, another question that's been on my mind recently. We all know that +skills don't give synergies, but can +skills stack? And I don't mean 3 differant items giving +2 to all skills, I mean, say, a sorc with 0 levels in nova, a staff with 3 to nova and a circlet with +2 to all skills. Would nova be level 5?
a sorc who hasnt learned any skills puts on a Staff of Fire Bolt and a ring of Jordan.
+firebolt for the staff and +1 for all skills. so that makes it lvl 2 without even learning it.
naturally a skill shrine would add a further +2, and BC another +1, you could have +5 to a skill and not have even learnt it yet, upon learning it, it would be at lvl 6.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
-Humankind cannot gain anything without first giving something in return. To obtain, something of equal value must be lost. That is alchemy's First Law of Equivalent Exchange. In those days, we really believed that to be the world's one, and only, truth.
they better not be like the damage question, took me an hour to figure it all out and get it to work. and i didnt even factor in STR, which i probably should have.
fortunately i dont have to do the assassin kick/claw damage equation, blizzard has supplied it for us.
Claw Damage Formulae Claw Stats bonus: [Dex x 0.0075] + [Str x 0.0075] + 1 []: Use up to the second decimal point. (ex. 1.6875 use 1.68) [225 x 0.0075] + [225 x 0.0075] + 1 [1.6875] + [1.6875] + 1 [1.68] + [1.68] + 1 4.36 Claw Mastery, Dragon Claw & Tiger Strike: FinalMin = {(StatsBonus + (skill%bonus)) x WeaponDamageMin} FinalMax = {(StatsBonus + (skill%bonus)) x WeaponDamageMax} {}: Ignore everything after the decimal point. (ex. 422.92 use 422) []: Use up to the second decimal point. (ex. 1.6875 use 1.68)
19-40 +223% +74 max (61-203); 402 str; 169 dex; level 11 Claw Mastery (+75%) + level 1, charge 1 Tiger Strike (+100%); level 1 Dragon Claw (+50%) MAX = {(([402 x 0.0075] + [169 x 0.0075] + 1) + (0.75 + 1.00 + 0.50)) x 185} MAX = {(([3.015] + [1.2675] + 1) + 2.25) x 185} MAX = {((3.01 + 1.26 + 1) + 2.25) x 185} MAX = {(5.27 + 2.25) x 185} MAX = {7.52 x 185} MAX = {1391.2} MAX = 1391
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
-Humankind cannot gain anything without first giving something in return. To obtain, something of equal value must be lost. That is alchemy's First Law of Equivalent Exchange. In those days, we really believed that to be the world's one, and only, truth.
1 question that I've been thinking of a bit is about damage increases.
Example: If I'm a lightning sorceress, I'm using Lightning. It does 1-100 damage. My Chain Lightning is level 5, thus giving a synergy of 40%. My Lightning Mastery gives 50%. Do I have 190 damage, or do I have 210?
Now say I'm a barbrian. I do 10-20 damage. I have bash adding 100% damage. I have sword mastery adding 50%. I have a paladin giving me 120% from fanatisism. How much damage do I do? What order do you calculate damage adds?
Formulas please.
Note: All numbers fictional, just for reference and ease of calculation.
mastery first as its passive and always on, then bash, then fana, as you might not always been in fana's radius.
as for lightning, 1-100 (base) 50% for mastery makes it 1-150 and then 40% of that is 1-210. not sure if the minimum damage for lightning is set at 1 or if it can be modded by synergies masteries, if it can you damage at the end would be 2.1-210 which i think would round to 2-210. again not sure.
synergy should be added later as they dont exist in non expansion (uh least i dont think they do)
And thanks, but to be honest you don't sound very sure lol. I'll take this as my current hypothesis. If I could play D2 at the mo' I would check it myself through experimentation.
So all the things stack. I thought it be so, but in games like D&D it would be calculated as 100+50%=50 extra, 100+40%=40 extra, 100+50+40=190. So I was slightly confused.
Again, thanks.
pretty sure things stack. then again they might not ive never looking into the mechanics but i think you have base damage, the you factor in masteries (if any) as they are always on you cannot remove them, then it would be a skill like bash or zeal that is interchangable, then synergies if they apply, then you factor in auras/bonuses from other players, as they would only apply if there is other players.
I mean, you look at damage w/attack, and put bash on right-click. It's directly added to attack. Then you add an aura, and it goes directly on top of that. I'm 95% you're right.
Barb
-no weapon = 1-2 damage (Innate)
-Hand Axe = 3-7 damage (Base)
-Lvl amastery = 4-9 damage (Mastery)
-Lvl 1 Bash = 7-12 damage (skill)
-Lvl 1 stun = 7-13 damage (synergy)
at lvl one of course there wouldnt me much difference, also i had no paly to fana me.
if i try to get a formula it would be;
Damage=base+(basex(mastery%ofbase))+(skill(base+(basex(mastery%ofbase))))+synergy((skill%(base+(basex(mastery%ofbase)))
D=B+(BxM)+(SK(B+(BxM)))+(SY(SK(B+(BxM))))
ok hope thats not too confusing, i dont have time to simplify it
so its 3-7 as the base, mastery adds +28% so 3-7 +( 3-7x0.28) = (3+0.84) - (7+1.96) = 3.84-8.96, which rounds to 4-9
Bash at lvl 1 is +50% so thats D = 4-9 + 0.5(4-9). D = 4-9 + (0.5x4-9) = (4+2) - (9+4.5) = 6 - 13.5, and somehow that comes to 7-12.
Stun at lvl 1 is +8%, so thats, and ill once again take the offical numbers i got from the game, not my math from above so D = 7-12 + 0.08(7-12) = (7+0.56) - (12+0.96) = 7.56-12.96 and that according to blizzard rounds to 7-13
ok i get the rounding to 13, but shouldnt 7.56 round to 8?
lol math on that is not so good blizzard, (or me)
and thats without any strength modding it further.
for reference at lvl 20 skills its
-no weapon = 1-2 damage (Innate)
-Hand Axe = 3-7 damage (Base)
-Lvl 20 amastery = 7-15 damage (Mastery)
-Lvl 20 Bash = 31-43 damage (skill)
-Lvl 20 stun = 34-49 damage (synergy)
im not doing checking the math on those numbers
now if i try apply a similar logic to say the sorc, its the same basic principle
lvl 1 lightning = 1-40 damage
lvl 1 Mastery = 1-60 damage
lvl 1 Charge bolt = 1-64 damage
lvl 1 Nova = 1-69 damage
lvl 1 Chain Lightning = 1-74 damage
now to get even 1 lvl to lightning you need to get 1 lvl to Charged bolt, and doing so activates the synergy, so you might assume synergy comes before mastery, but the was a time when synergies didnt apply, so i fairly certain they would come after the mastery.
also if you think of it in terms of a formla with terms a+B+c=d and each have a value, can a value not be 0? i.e each term would only apply if it has a value.
so to use my formula from above
D=B+(BxM)+(SK(B+(BxM)))+(SY(SK(B+(BxM))))
Base = 1-40 mastery is +20% and each synergy is 8%
D= 1-40 + (1-40x0.2) = 1+0.5-40+20 = 1.5-60.
but most of the lightning skills have a set minimum damage of 1. so that makes it 1-60.
no skill adds to damage like bash does for the barb so the value for (SK(B+(BxM%))) is 0
ok synergies
8% for each 1 and there are 3 of them.
D= 1-60 + 0.08(1-60) = 1+0.08-60+4.5 = 1.08-64.5 which blizzard has rounded to 1-64.
one synergy down 2 more to go
D = 1-64 + 0.08(1-64) = 1+0.08=64+5.12 = 1.08-69.12 which blizzard has rounded to 1-69.
last synergy!!!
D = 1-69 + 0.08(1-69) = 1+0.08=69+5.52 = 1.08-74.52 which blizzard has rounded to 1-74.
ok man that was a lot of work/crazyness, hope it helped you out.
oh and for reference for the sorc its;
lvl 20 lightning = 1-200 damage
lvl 20 Mastery = 3-1274 damage
lvl 20 Charge bolt = 3-2837 damage
lvl 20 Nova = 3-4400 damage
lvl 20 Chain Lightning = 3-5963 damage
hmm seems i was wrong about the minimum of 1 damage, could have sworn thunderstorm was the only exception to that rule, but i suppose with maxed mastery and synergies it will do that.
D=B+(BxM)+(SK(B+(BxM)))+(SY(SK(B+(BxM))))
only encorperates your character, then you have things like Enchant (E(SY(SK(B+(BxM))))), then you have auras (A(E(SY(SK(B+(BxM)))))) and finally shrine (SH((A(E(SY(SK(B+(BxM))))))), so yeh lots of things adding to damage (D)
but its gets pretty crazy at this point. max skill, max mastery, max synergies, enchant, aura, shrine, and considering how the formula works damn.
full formula i think is;
D=B+(BxM)+(SK(B+(BxM)))+(SY(SK(B+(BxM))))+(E(SY(SK(B+(BxM)))))+(A(E(SY(SK(B+(BxM))))))+(SH((A(E(SY(SK(B+(BxM))))))).
each new term adds a percentage of the previous term to the previous term.
D=b+%b+%(b+%b)+(%(b+%b)) and so on, and so on for each thing that adds to your damage be it a skill, synergy or shrine
all that work and it serves no real purpose, lol
Siaynoq's Playthroughs
he wanted to know the calculate for damage so i tried to figure it out, that what i came up with and somehow it works as in the two examples above.
Now, another question that's been on my mind recently. We all know that +skills don't give synergies, but can +skills stack? And I don't mean 3 differant items giving +2 to all skills, I mean, say, a sorc with 0 levels in nova, a staff with 3 to nova and a circlet with +2 to all skills. Would nova be level 5?
a sorc who hasnt learned any skills puts on a Staff of Fire Bolt and a ring of Jordan.
+firebolt for the staff and +1 for all skills. so that makes it lvl 2 without even learning it.
naturally a skill shrine would add a further +2, and BC another +1, you could have +5 to a skill and not have even learnt it yet, upon learning it, it would be at lvl 6.
fortunately i dont have to do the assassin kick/claw damage equation, blizzard has supplied it for us.
Kick Damage
MinDamage=(str+dex-20)/4)*(100+skill_bonus)/100 + BootMinDam*(100+str*StrBonus/100+skill_bonus)/100
MaxDamage=(str+dex-20)/3)*(100+skill_bonus)/100 + BootMaxDam*(100+str*StrBonus/100+skill_bonus)/100
Claw Damage Formulae
Claw Stats bonus:
[Dex x 0.0075] + [Str x 0.0075] + 1
[]: Use up to the second decimal point. (ex. 1.6875 use 1.68)
[225 x 0.0075] + [225 x 0.0075] + 1
[1.6875] + [1.6875] + 1
[1.68] + [1.68] + 1
4.36
Claw Mastery, Dragon Claw & Tiger Strike:
FinalMin = {(StatsBonus + (skill%bonus)) x WeaponDamageMin}
FinalMax = {(StatsBonus + (skill%bonus)) x WeaponDamageMax}
{}: Ignore everything after the decimal point. (ex. 422.92 use 422)
[]: Use up to the second decimal point. (ex. 1.6875 use 1.68)
19-40 +223% +74 max (61-203); 402 str; 169 dex; level 11 Claw Mastery
(+75%) + level 1, charge 1 Tiger Strike (+100%); level 1 Dragon Claw (+50%)
MAX = {(([402 x 0.0075] + [169 x 0.0075] + 1) + (0.75 + 1.00 + 0.50)) x 185}
MAX = {(([3.015] + [1.2675] + 1) + 2.25) x 185}
MAX = {((3.01 + 1.26 + 1) + 2.25) x 185}
MAX = {(5.27 + 2.25) x 185}
MAX = {7.52 x 185}
MAX = {1391.2}
MAX = 1391